How would a composite variable be strongly correlated with one variable but not the other?











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I have two variables x1 and x2 which measure relatively similar things (r ~ 0.6), with x2 slightly larger than x1 on average. I then created a new variable x3 by subtracting the two: x3 = x1 - x2.



However, when I ran the Pearson correlations, x3 is strongly negatively correlated with x2 as expected (r ~ -0.6), but x3 is not very correlated with x1 (r ~ 0.1). How is this possible?










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    A scatter plot matrix should help.
    – Nick Cox
    yesterday






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    Possible duplicate of When A and B are positively related variables, can they have opposite effect on their outcome variable C?
    – sds
    yesterday















up vote
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down vote

favorite












I have two variables x1 and x2 which measure relatively similar things (r ~ 0.6), with x2 slightly larger than x1 on average. I then created a new variable x3 by subtracting the two: x3 = x1 - x2.



However, when I ran the Pearson correlations, x3 is strongly negatively correlated with x2 as expected (r ~ -0.6), but x3 is not very correlated with x1 (r ~ 0.1). How is this possible?










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 2




    A scatter plot matrix should help.
    – Nick Cox
    yesterday






  • 1




    Possible duplicate of When A and B are positively related variables, can they have opposite effect on their outcome variable C?
    – sds
    yesterday













up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite











I have two variables x1 and x2 which measure relatively similar things (r ~ 0.6), with x2 slightly larger than x1 on average. I then created a new variable x3 by subtracting the two: x3 = x1 - x2.



However, when I ran the Pearson correlations, x3 is strongly negatively correlated with x2 as expected (r ~ -0.6), but x3 is not very correlated with x1 (r ~ 0.1). How is this possible?










share|cite|improve this question















I have two variables x1 and x2 which measure relatively similar things (r ~ 0.6), with x2 slightly larger than x1 on average. I then created a new variable x3 by subtracting the two: x3 = x1 - x2.



However, when I ran the Pearson correlations, x3 is strongly negatively correlated with x2 as expected (r ~ -0.6), but x3 is not very correlated with x1 (r ~ 0.1). How is this possible?







correlation






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edited yesterday









Nick Cox

37.9k480127




37.9k480127










asked yesterday









hlinee

387




387








  • 2




    A scatter plot matrix should help.
    – Nick Cox
    yesterday






  • 1




    Possible duplicate of When A and B are positively related variables, can they have opposite effect on their outcome variable C?
    – sds
    yesterday














  • 2




    A scatter plot matrix should help.
    – Nick Cox
    yesterday






  • 1




    Possible duplicate of When A and B are positively related variables, can they have opposite effect on their outcome variable C?
    – sds
    yesterday








2




2




A scatter plot matrix should help.
– Nick Cox
yesterday




A scatter plot matrix should help.
– Nick Cox
yesterday




1




1




Possible duplicate of When A and B are positively related variables, can they have opposite effect on their outcome variable C?
– sds
yesterday




Possible duplicate of When A and B are positively related variables, can they have opposite effect on their outcome variable C?
– sds
yesterday










4 Answers
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13
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Here's a simple example. Suppose $ε_1$ and $ε_2$ are independent standard normal random variables. Define $X_1 = ε_1$, $X_2 = X_1 + ε_2$, and $X_3 = X_1 - X_2$. The correlation of $X_1$ with $X_2$ is then $tfrac{1}{sqrt{2}} approx .71$. Likewise, the correlation of $X_2$ with $X_3$ is $-tfrac{1}{sqrt{2}}$. But the correlation of $X_1$ with $X_3$ is the correlation of $ε_1$ with $ε_1 - (ε_1 + ε_2) = -ε_2$, which is 0 since the $ε_i$s are independent.






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    2
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    This is by construction of $x_3$. Given that $x_2$ and $x_1$ are closely related - in terms of their Pearson correlation if you subtract one from the other, you reduce correlation. The best way to see that is to consider the extreme scenario of complete correlation, i.e., $x_2=x_1$, in which case $x_3=x_1-x_2=0$, which is fully deterministic, i.e., $rapprox 0$.



    You can do a more formal argument using the definition of the Pearson correlation by looking at the covariation between $x_3$ and $x_1$. You will see that the covariation will be reduced. By how much, depends on the correlation between $x_1$ and $x_2$, i.e., $r_{12}$ and their standard deviations. Everything being equal, the larger $r_{12}$, the smaller $r_{13}$.






    share|cite|improve this answer








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    Gkhan Cebs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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    • 1




      By "covariation", do you mean "covariance"?
      – Kodiologist
      yesterday










    • @Kodiologist Are the two interchangeable? Or do they mean different things?
      – Cowthulhu
      13 hours ago










    • @Cowthulhu "Covariance" has a specific definition in statistics, but I'm not familiar with the word "covariation".
      – Kodiologist
      13 hours ago










    • @Kodiologist Gotcha, I had never heard "Covariance" referred to as "Covaration" either, so I was just wondering. Very new though, so don't take that as much of an indicator :). Thanks
      – Cowthulhu
      12 hours ago


















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    You can rewrite your equation $x_3=x_2-x_1$ as $x_2=x_3-x_1$. Then regardless of what you pick as $x_1$ and $x_3$, you will have that $x_2$ is correlated to $x_1$ and $x_3$, but there is no reason to expect $x_1$ and $x_3$ to be correlated to each other. For instance, if $x_1$= number of letters in title of Best Picture Oscar winner, $x_3$= number of named hurricanes, $x_2$= number of named hurricanes - number of letters in title of Best Picture Oscar winner, then you will have that $x_3=x_2-x_1$, but that doesn't mean that $x_3$ will be correlated with $x_1$.






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      Let $Var(X_1) = sigma_1^2$, $Var(X_2) = sigma_2^2$, and $Cov(X_1,X_2)=sigma_{12} = rhosigma_1sigma_2$
      Then $Var(X_3=X_1-X_2)=sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12}$



      $Cov(X_1,X_3)=sigma_1^2-sigma_{12}$



      $Cov(X_2,X_3) =sigma_{12}-sigma_2^2$



      $Corr(X_1,X_3) =frac{sigma_1^2-sigma_{12}}{sqrt{sigma_1^2(sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12})}}$



      $Corr(X_2,X_3) =frac{-sigma_2^2+sigma_{12}}{sqrt{sigma_2^2(sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12})}}$



      So $|Corr(X_1,X_3)| lt text {or} = text {or} gt |Corr(X_2,X_3)|$ depends on $sigma_1^2$ and $sigma_2^2$



      This relation cannot be determined by correlation coefficient.






      share|cite|improve this answer























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        4 Answers
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        up vote
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        Here's a simple example. Suppose $ε_1$ and $ε_2$ are independent standard normal random variables. Define $X_1 = ε_1$, $X_2 = X_1 + ε_2$, and $X_3 = X_1 - X_2$. The correlation of $X_1$ with $X_2$ is then $tfrac{1}{sqrt{2}} approx .71$. Likewise, the correlation of $X_2$ with $X_3$ is $-tfrac{1}{sqrt{2}}$. But the correlation of $X_1$ with $X_3$ is the correlation of $ε_1$ with $ε_1 - (ε_1 + ε_2) = -ε_2$, which is 0 since the $ε_i$s are independent.






        share|cite|improve this answer



























          up vote
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          Here's a simple example. Suppose $ε_1$ and $ε_2$ are independent standard normal random variables. Define $X_1 = ε_1$, $X_2 = X_1 + ε_2$, and $X_3 = X_1 - X_2$. The correlation of $X_1$ with $X_2$ is then $tfrac{1}{sqrt{2}} approx .71$. Likewise, the correlation of $X_2$ with $X_3$ is $-tfrac{1}{sqrt{2}}$. But the correlation of $X_1$ with $X_3$ is the correlation of $ε_1$ with $ε_1 - (ε_1 + ε_2) = -ε_2$, which is 0 since the $ε_i$s are independent.






          share|cite|improve this answer

























            up vote
            13
            down vote










            up vote
            13
            down vote









            Here's a simple example. Suppose $ε_1$ and $ε_2$ are independent standard normal random variables. Define $X_1 = ε_1$, $X_2 = X_1 + ε_2$, and $X_3 = X_1 - X_2$. The correlation of $X_1$ with $X_2$ is then $tfrac{1}{sqrt{2}} approx .71$. Likewise, the correlation of $X_2$ with $X_3$ is $-tfrac{1}{sqrt{2}}$. But the correlation of $X_1$ with $X_3$ is the correlation of $ε_1$ with $ε_1 - (ε_1 + ε_2) = -ε_2$, which is 0 since the $ε_i$s are independent.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            Here's a simple example. Suppose $ε_1$ and $ε_2$ are independent standard normal random variables. Define $X_1 = ε_1$, $X_2 = X_1 + ε_2$, and $X_3 = X_1 - X_2$. The correlation of $X_1$ with $X_2$ is then $tfrac{1}{sqrt{2}} approx .71$. Likewise, the correlation of $X_2$ with $X_3$ is $-tfrac{1}{sqrt{2}}$. But the correlation of $X_1$ with $X_3$ is the correlation of $ε_1$ with $ε_1 - (ε_1 + ε_2) = -ε_2$, which is 0 since the $ε_i$s are independent.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited yesterday

























            answered yesterday









            Kodiologist

            16.5k22953




            16.5k22953
























                up vote
                2
                down vote













                This is by construction of $x_3$. Given that $x_2$ and $x_1$ are closely related - in terms of their Pearson correlation if you subtract one from the other, you reduce correlation. The best way to see that is to consider the extreme scenario of complete correlation, i.e., $x_2=x_1$, in which case $x_3=x_1-x_2=0$, which is fully deterministic, i.e., $rapprox 0$.



                You can do a more formal argument using the definition of the Pearson correlation by looking at the covariation between $x_3$ and $x_1$. You will see that the covariation will be reduced. By how much, depends on the correlation between $x_1$ and $x_2$, i.e., $r_{12}$ and their standard deviations. Everything being equal, the larger $r_{12}$, the smaller $r_{13}$.






                share|cite|improve this answer








                New contributor




                Gkhan Cebs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.














                • 1




                  By "covariation", do you mean "covariance"?
                  – Kodiologist
                  yesterday










                • @Kodiologist Are the two interchangeable? Or do they mean different things?
                  – Cowthulhu
                  13 hours ago










                • @Cowthulhu "Covariance" has a specific definition in statistics, but I'm not familiar with the word "covariation".
                  – Kodiologist
                  13 hours ago










                • @Kodiologist Gotcha, I had never heard "Covariance" referred to as "Covaration" either, so I was just wondering. Very new though, so don't take that as much of an indicator :). Thanks
                  – Cowthulhu
                  12 hours ago















                up vote
                2
                down vote













                This is by construction of $x_3$. Given that $x_2$ and $x_1$ are closely related - in terms of their Pearson correlation if you subtract one from the other, you reduce correlation. The best way to see that is to consider the extreme scenario of complete correlation, i.e., $x_2=x_1$, in which case $x_3=x_1-x_2=0$, which is fully deterministic, i.e., $rapprox 0$.



                You can do a more formal argument using the definition of the Pearson correlation by looking at the covariation between $x_3$ and $x_1$. You will see that the covariation will be reduced. By how much, depends on the correlation between $x_1$ and $x_2$, i.e., $r_{12}$ and their standard deviations. Everything being equal, the larger $r_{12}$, the smaller $r_{13}$.






                share|cite|improve this answer








                New contributor




                Gkhan Cebs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.














                • 1




                  By "covariation", do you mean "covariance"?
                  – Kodiologist
                  yesterday










                • @Kodiologist Are the two interchangeable? Or do they mean different things?
                  – Cowthulhu
                  13 hours ago










                • @Cowthulhu "Covariance" has a specific definition in statistics, but I'm not familiar with the word "covariation".
                  – Kodiologist
                  13 hours ago










                • @Kodiologist Gotcha, I had never heard "Covariance" referred to as "Covaration" either, so I was just wondering. Very new though, so don't take that as much of an indicator :). Thanks
                  – Cowthulhu
                  12 hours ago













                up vote
                2
                down vote










                up vote
                2
                down vote









                This is by construction of $x_3$. Given that $x_2$ and $x_1$ are closely related - in terms of their Pearson correlation if you subtract one from the other, you reduce correlation. The best way to see that is to consider the extreme scenario of complete correlation, i.e., $x_2=x_1$, in which case $x_3=x_1-x_2=0$, which is fully deterministic, i.e., $rapprox 0$.



                You can do a more formal argument using the definition of the Pearson correlation by looking at the covariation between $x_3$ and $x_1$. You will see that the covariation will be reduced. By how much, depends on the correlation between $x_1$ and $x_2$, i.e., $r_{12}$ and their standard deviations. Everything being equal, the larger $r_{12}$, the smaller $r_{13}$.






                share|cite|improve this answer








                New contributor




                Gkhan Cebs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                This is by construction of $x_3$. Given that $x_2$ and $x_1$ are closely related - in terms of their Pearson correlation if you subtract one from the other, you reduce correlation. The best way to see that is to consider the extreme scenario of complete correlation, i.e., $x_2=x_1$, in which case $x_3=x_1-x_2=0$, which is fully deterministic, i.e., $rapprox 0$.



                You can do a more formal argument using the definition of the Pearson correlation by looking at the covariation between $x_3$ and $x_1$. You will see that the covariation will be reduced. By how much, depends on the correlation between $x_1$ and $x_2$, i.e., $r_{12}$ and their standard deviations. Everything being equal, the larger $r_{12}$, the smaller $r_{13}$.







                share|cite|improve this answer








                New contributor




                Gkhan Cebs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer






                New contributor




                Gkhan Cebs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                answered yesterday









                Gkhan Cebs

                311




                311




                New contributor




                Gkhan Cebs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.





                New contributor





                Gkhan Cebs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                Gkhan Cebs is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                Check out our Code of Conduct.








                • 1




                  By "covariation", do you mean "covariance"?
                  – Kodiologist
                  yesterday










                • @Kodiologist Are the two interchangeable? Or do they mean different things?
                  – Cowthulhu
                  13 hours ago










                • @Cowthulhu "Covariance" has a specific definition in statistics, but I'm not familiar with the word "covariation".
                  – Kodiologist
                  13 hours ago










                • @Kodiologist Gotcha, I had never heard "Covariance" referred to as "Covaration" either, so I was just wondering. Very new though, so don't take that as much of an indicator :). Thanks
                  – Cowthulhu
                  12 hours ago














                • 1




                  By "covariation", do you mean "covariance"?
                  – Kodiologist
                  yesterday










                • @Kodiologist Are the two interchangeable? Or do they mean different things?
                  – Cowthulhu
                  13 hours ago










                • @Cowthulhu "Covariance" has a specific definition in statistics, but I'm not familiar with the word "covariation".
                  – Kodiologist
                  13 hours ago










                • @Kodiologist Gotcha, I had never heard "Covariance" referred to as "Covaration" either, so I was just wondering. Very new though, so don't take that as much of an indicator :). Thanks
                  – Cowthulhu
                  12 hours ago








                1




                1




                By "covariation", do you mean "covariance"?
                – Kodiologist
                yesterday




                By "covariation", do you mean "covariance"?
                – Kodiologist
                yesterday












                @Kodiologist Are the two interchangeable? Or do they mean different things?
                – Cowthulhu
                13 hours ago




                @Kodiologist Are the two interchangeable? Or do they mean different things?
                – Cowthulhu
                13 hours ago












                @Cowthulhu "Covariance" has a specific definition in statistics, but I'm not familiar with the word "covariation".
                – Kodiologist
                13 hours ago




                @Cowthulhu "Covariance" has a specific definition in statistics, but I'm not familiar with the word "covariation".
                – Kodiologist
                13 hours ago












                @Kodiologist Gotcha, I had never heard "Covariance" referred to as "Covaration" either, so I was just wondering. Very new though, so don't take that as much of an indicator :). Thanks
                – Cowthulhu
                12 hours ago




                @Kodiologist Gotcha, I had never heard "Covariance" referred to as "Covaration" either, so I was just wondering. Very new though, so don't take that as much of an indicator :). Thanks
                – Cowthulhu
                12 hours ago










                up vote
                1
                down vote













                You can rewrite your equation $x_3=x_2-x_1$ as $x_2=x_3-x_1$. Then regardless of what you pick as $x_1$ and $x_3$, you will have that $x_2$ is correlated to $x_1$ and $x_3$, but there is no reason to expect $x_1$ and $x_3$ to be correlated to each other. For instance, if $x_1$= number of letters in title of Best Picture Oscar winner, $x_3$= number of named hurricanes, $x_2$= number of named hurricanes - number of letters in title of Best Picture Oscar winner, then you will have that $x_3=x_2-x_1$, but that doesn't mean that $x_3$ will be correlated with $x_1$.






                share|cite|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote













                  You can rewrite your equation $x_3=x_2-x_1$ as $x_2=x_3-x_1$. Then regardless of what you pick as $x_1$ and $x_3$, you will have that $x_2$ is correlated to $x_1$ and $x_3$, but there is no reason to expect $x_1$ and $x_3$ to be correlated to each other. For instance, if $x_1$= number of letters in title of Best Picture Oscar winner, $x_3$= number of named hurricanes, $x_2$= number of named hurricanes - number of letters in title of Best Picture Oscar winner, then you will have that $x_3=x_2-x_1$, but that doesn't mean that $x_3$ will be correlated with $x_1$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer























                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote









                    You can rewrite your equation $x_3=x_2-x_1$ as $x_2=x_3-x_1$. Then regardless of what you pick as $x_1$ and $x_3$, you will have that $x_2$ is correlated to $x_1$ and $x_3$, but there is no reason to expect $x_1$ and $x_3$ to be correlated to each other. For instance, if $x_1$= number of letters in title of Best Picture Oscar winner, $x_3$= number of named hurricanes, $x_2$= number of named hurricanes - number of letters in title of Best Picture Oscar winner, then you will have that $x_3=x_2-x_1$, but that doesn't mean that $x_3$ will be correlated with $x_1$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    You can rewrite your equation $x_3=x_2-x_1$ as $x_2=x_3-x_1$. Then regardless of what you pick as $x_1$ and $x_3$, you will have that $x_2$ is correlated to $x_1$ and $x_3$, but there is no reason to expect $x_1$ and $x_3$ to be correlated to each other. For instance, if $x_1$= number of letters in title of Best Picture Oscar winner, $x_3$= number of named hurricanes, $x_2$= number of named hurricanes - number of letters in title of Best Picture Oscar winner, then you will have that $x_3=x_2-x_1$, but that doesn't mean that $x_3$ will be correlated with $x_1$.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered yesterday









                    Acccumulation

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                        Let $Var(X_1) = sigma_1^2$, $Var(X_2) = sigma_2^2$, and $Cov(X_1,X_2)=sigma_{12} = rhosigma_1sigma_2$
                        Then $Var(X_3=X_1-X_2)=sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12}$



                        $Cov(X_1,X_3)=sigma_1^2-sigma_{12}$



                        $Cov(X_2,X_3) =sigma_{12}-sigma_2^2$



                        $Corr(X_1,X_3) =frac{sigma_1^2-sigma_{12}}{sqrt{sigma_1^2(sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12})}}$



                        $Corr(X_2,X_3) =frac{-sigma_2^2+sigma_{12}}{sqrt{sigma_2^2(sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12})}}$



                        So $|Corr(X_1,X_3)| lt text {or} = text {or} gt |Corr(X_2,X_3)|$ depends on $sigma_1^2$ and $sigma_2^2$



                        This relation cannot be determined by correlation coefficient.






                        share|cite|improve this answer



























                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          Let $Var(X_1) = sigma_1^2$, $Var(X_2) = sigma_2^2$, and $Cov(X_1,X_2)=sigma_{12} = rhosigma_1sigma_2$
                          Then $Var(X_3=X_1-X_2)=sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12}$



                          $Cov(X_1,X_3)=sigma_1^2-sigma_{12}$



                          $Cov(X_2,X_3) =sigma_{12}-sigma_2^2$



                          $Corr(X_1,X_3) =frac{sigma_1^2-sigma_{12}}{sqrt{sigma_1^2(sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12})}}$



                          $Corr(X_2,X_3) =frac{-sigma_2^2+sigma_{12}}{sqrt{sigma_2^2(sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12})}}$



                          So $|Corr(X_1,X_3)| lt text {or} = text {or} gt |Corr(X_2,X_3)|$ depends on $sigma_1^2$ and $sigma_2^2$



                          This relation cannot be determined by correlation coefficient.






                          share|cite|improve this answer

























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                            Let $Var(X_1) = sigma_1^2$, $Var(X_2) = sigma_2^2$, and $Cov(X_1,X_2)=sigma_{12} = rhosigma_1sigma_2$
                            Then $Var(X_3=X_1-X_2)=sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12}$



                            $Cov(X_1,X_3)=sigma_1^2-sigma_{12}$



                            $Cov(X_2,X_3) =sigma_{12}-sigma_2^2$



                            $Corr(X_1,X_3) =frac{sigma_1^2-sigma_{12}}{sqrt{sigma_1^2(sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12})}}$



                            $Corr(X_2,X_3) =frac{-sigma_2^2+sigma_{12}}{sqrt{sigma_2^2(sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12})}}$



                            So $|Corr(X_1,X_3)| lt text {or} = text {or} gt |Corr(X_2,X_3)|$ depends on $sigma_1^2$ and $sigma_2^2$



                            This relation cannot be determined by correlation coefficient.






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                            Let $Var(X_1) = sigma_1^2$, $Var(X_2) = sigma_2^2$, and $Cov(X_1,X_2)=sigma_{12} = rhosigma_1sigma_2$
                            Then $Var(X_3=X_1-X_2)=sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12}$



                            $Cov(X_1,X_3)=sigma_1^2-sigma_{12}$



                            $Cov(X_2,X_3) =sigma_{12}-sigma_2^2$



                            $Corr(X_1,X_3) =frac{sigma_1^2-sigma_{12}}{sqrt{sigma_1^2(sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12})}}$



                            $Corr(X_2,X_3) =frac{-sigma_2^2+sigma_{12}}{sqrt{sigma_2^2(sigma_1^2+sigma_2^2 - 2sigma_{12})}}$



                            So $|Corr(X_1,X_3)| lt text {or} = text {or} gt |Corr(X_2,X_3)|$ depends on $sigma_1^2$ and $sigma_2^2$



                            This relation cannot be determined by correlation coefficient.







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                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer








                            edited yesterday

























                            answered yesterday









                            user158565

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