Reporting a student who may be psychologically disturbed
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Yesterday, a colleague from my school's history department brought me a student's final project from her history class. The assigned project was to produce a "creative" project dealing with a historical figure/event covered in the time period of the class (20th century United States). One student wrote a short play about the Great Depression. Another student designed a simple computer game that he ran on a Macintosh Classic II from the 1990s.
However, the student in question here (whose project I was shown) wrote a diary for a famous American serial killer. The diary graphically details the killings this man performed, including hand sketches of female genetilia and (as far as we can tell) splatters of real blood. It is a horrifically disturbing piece of work.
The student did technically fulfill the parameters of the assignment. He produced a (seemingly) historically accurate project on a historical figure from the 20th century in the United States. (Neither my colleague nor I really wanted to fact check every detail of a 200 page diary written in scrawled handwriting and splattered with blood and sketches of vivisected women). The writing is decent, albeit rather repetitive and somewhat simple. My colleague is likely going to give the student a fairly high grade on the project.
However, the graphic and disturbing subject matter, alongside the frighteningly realistic psychopathy, have brought my colleague to wonder if she should show the project to department or university administration. We were not sure if this student just had a distinct (and disturbing) gift for creative writing or if he was actually writing from personal experience (or something?). Is it a cry for help? Is the student a serial killer (unlikely)? Does he enjoy fantacizing about vicious crimes?
We are not psychologists, so we are not going to try to psychoanalyze this student from a professional standpoint. We also want to tread lightly around punishing and censoring a student for "thought crimes." However we also do not want to become part of history ourselves by being "that one professor" who saw potential signs of a violent criminal and opted to just give the kid an A- and be done with it.
Should my colleague show this project to university administrators?
ethics united-states administration
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Yesterday, a colleague from my school's history department brought me a student's final project from her history class. The assigned project was to produce a "creative" project dealing with a historical figure/event covered in the time period of the class (20th century United States). One student wrote a short play about the Great Depression. Another student designed a simple computer game that he ran on a Macintosh Classic II from the 1990s.
However, the student in question here (whose project I was shown) wrote a diary for a famous American serial killer. The diary graphically details the killings this man performed, including hand sketches of female genetilia and (as far as we can tell) splatters of real blood. It is a horrifically disturbing piece of work.
The student did technically fulfill the parameters of the assignment. He produced a (seemingly) historically accurate project on a historical figure from the 20th century in the United States. (Neither my colleague nor I really wanted to fact check every detail of a 200 page diary written in scrawled handwriting and splattered with blood and sketches of vivisected women). The writing is decent, albeit rather repetitive and somewhat simple. My colleague is likely going to give the student a fairly high grade on the project.
However, the graphic and disturbing subject matter, alongside the frighteningly realistic psychopathy, have brought my colleague to wonder if she should show the project to department or university administration. We were not sure if this student just had a distinct (and disturbing) gift for creative writing or if he was actually writing from personal experience (or something?). Is it a cry for help? Is the student a serial killer (unlikely)? Does he enjoy fantacizing about vicious crimes?
We are not psychologists, so we are not going to try to psychoanalyze this student from a professional standpoint. We also want to tread lightly around punishing and censoring a student for "thought crimes." However we also do not want to become part of history ourselves by being "that one professor" who saw potential signs of a violent criminal and opted to just give the kid an A- and be done with it.
Should my colleague show this project to university administrators?
ethics united-states administration
15
In my experience, the department under the Dean of Students often has staff that receives reports about students with mental health concerns. The staff in that office would know how to proceed, and what university procedures should be initiated. Your university probably also has some sort of threat assessment team that assesses potential threats to campus. The Dean of Students office (or similar) may turn over the documents to that team.
– Christopher
yesterday
6
Serious question: are you a fan of horror/slasher films?
– Alex Reinking
yesterday
53
I want to commend you for your stance in the second-to-last paragraph (not wanting to punish someone for "thought crimes", and admitting to not being psychologists). Far too many people think "oh, I read the WebMD synopsis of this mental health condition, I am now qualified to diagnose it!" It's good that you're aware of what you don't know, and are taking it into account.
– Nic Hartley
yesterday
6
"The assigned project was to produce a project dealing with a historical figure/event covered in the time period" Can you identify a specific historical figure or event from the diary? It may be less disturbing if he is recreating something that happened rather than making it all up himself. The tricky thing is to figure out if you have a Steven King or a serial killer. Don't forget to have a written trail of who you inform.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
12
@pmf Historically, disturbing imagery has been associated with nascent hostile intentions and been a valid cause for concern, potentially saving lives. Are you sure you don't want to associate with that ideology?
– Lightness Races in Orbit
18 hours ago
|
show 11 more comments
up vote
73
down vote
favorite
up vote
73
down vote
favorite
Yesterday, a colleague from my school's history department brought me a student's final project from her history class. The assigned project was to produce a "creative" project dealing with a historical figure/event covered in the time period of the class (20th century United States). One student wrote a short play about the Great Depression. Another student designed a simple computer game that he ran on a Macintosh Classic II from the 1990s.
However, the student in question here (whose project I was shown) wrote a diary for a famous American serial killer. The diary graphically details the killings this man performed, including hand sketches of female genetilia and (as far as we can tell) splatters of real blood. It is a horrifically disturbing piece of work.
The student did technically fulfill the parameters of the assignment. He produced a (seemingly) historically accurate project on a historical figure from the 20th century in the United States. (Neither my colleague nor I really wanted to fact check every detail of a 200 page diary written in scrawled handwriting and splattered with blood and sketches of vivisected women). The writing is decent, albeit rather repetitive and somewhat simple. My colleague is likely going to give the student a fairly high grade on the project.
However, the graphic and disturbing subject matter, alongside the frighteningly realistic psychopathy, have brought my colleague to wonder if she should show the project to department or university administration. We were not sure if this student just had a distinct (and disturbing) gift for creative writing or if he was actually writing from personal experience (or something?). Is it a cry for help? Is the student a serial killer (unlikely)? Does he enjoy fantacizing about vicious crimes?
We are not psychologists, so we are not going to try to psychoanalyze this student from a professional standpoint. We also want to tread lightly around punishing and censoring a student for "thought crimes." However we also do not want to become part of history ourselves by being "that one professor" who saw potential signs of a violent criminal and opted to just give the kid an A- and be done with it.
Should my colleague show this project to university administrators?
ethics united-states administration
Yesterday, a colleague from my school's history department brought me a student's final project from her history class. The assigned project was to produce a "creative" project dealing with a historical figure/event covered in the time period of the class (20th century United States). One student wrote a short play about the Great Depression. Another student designed a simple computer game that he ran on a Macintosh Classic II from the 1990s.
However, the student in question here (whose project I was shown) wrote a diary for a famous American serial killer. The diary graphically details the killings this man performed, including hand sketches of female genetilia and (as far as we can tell) splatters of real blood. It is a horrifically disturbing piece of work.
The student did technically fulfill the parameters of the assignment. He produced a (seemingly) historically accurate project on a historical figure from the 20th century in the United States. (Neither my colleague nor I really wanted to fact check every detail of a 200 page diary written in scrawled handwriting and splattered with blood and sketches of vivisected women). The writing is decent, albeit rather repetitive and somewhat simple. My colleague is likely going to give the student a fairly high grade on the project.
However, the graphic and disturbing subject matter, alongside the frighteningly realistic psychopathy, have brought my colleague to wonder if she should show the project to department or university administration. We were not sure if this student just had a distinct (and disturbing) gift for creative writing or if he was actually writing from personal experience (or something?). Is it a cry for help? Is the student a serial killer (unlikely)? Does he enjoy fantacizing about vicious crimes?
We are not psychologists, so we are not going to try to psychoanalyze this student from a professional standpoint. We also want to tread lightly around punishing and censoring a student for "thought crimes." However we also do not want to become part of history ourselves by being "that one professor" who saw potential signs of a violent criminal and opted to just give the kid an A- and be done with it.
Should my colleague show this project to university administrators?
ethics united-states administration
ethics united-states administration
asked yesterday
Vladhagen
9,10433459
9,10433459
15
In my experience, the department under the Dean of Students often has staff that receives reports about students with mental health concerns. The staff in that office would know how to proceed, and what university procedures should be initiated. Your university probably also has some sort of threat assessment team that assesses potential threats to campus. The Dean of Students office (or similar) may turn over the documents to that team.
– Christopher
yesterday
6
Serious question: are you a fan of horror/slasher films?
– Alex Reinking
yesterday
53
I want to commend you for your stance in the second-to-last paragraph (not wanting to punish someone for "thought crimes", and admitting to not being psychologists). Far too many people think "oh, I read the WebMD synopsis of this mental health condition, I am now qualified to diagnose it!" It's good that you're aware of what you don't know, and are taking it into account.
– Nic Hartley
yesterday
6
"The assigned project was to produce a project dealing with a historical figure/event covered in the time period" Can you identify a specific historical figure or event from the diary? It may be less disturbing if he is recreating something that happened rather than making it all up himself. The tricky thing is to figure out if you have a Steven King or a serial killer. Don't forget to have a written trail of who you inform.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
12
@pmf Historically, disturbing imagery has been associated with nascent hostile intentions and been a valid cause for concern, potentially saving lives. Are you sure you don't want to associate with that ideology?
– Lightness Races in Orbit
18 hours ago
|
show 11 more comments
15
In my experience, the department under the Dean of Students often has staff that receives reports about students with mental health concerns. The staff in that office would know how to proceed, and what university procedures should be initiated. Your university probably also has some sort of threat assessment team that assesses potential threats to campus. The Dean of Students office (or similar) may turn over the documents to that team.
– Christopher
yesterday
6
Serious question: are you a fan of horror/slasher films?
– Alex Reinking
yesterday
53
I want to commend you for your stance in the second-to-last paragraph (not wanting to punish someone for "thought crimes", and admitting to not being psychologists). Far too many people think "oh, I read the WebMD synopsis of this mental health condition, I am now qualified to diagnose it!" It's good that you're aware of what you don't know, and are taking it into account.
– Nic Hartley
yesterday
6
"The assigned project was to produce a project dealing with a historical figure/event covered in the time period" Can you identify a specific historical figure or event from the diary? It may be less disturbing if he is recreating something that happened rather than making it all up himself. The tricky thing is to figure out if you have a Steven King or a serial killer. Don't forget to have a written trail of who you inform.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
12
@pmf Historically, disturbing imagery has been associated with nascent hostile intentions and been a valid cause for concern, potentially saving lives. Are you sure you don't want to associate with that ideology?
– Lightness Races in Orbit
18 hours ago
15
15
In my experience, the department under the Dean of Students often has staff that receives reports about students with mental health concerns. The staff in that office would know how to proceed, and what university procedures should be initiated. Your university probably also has some sort of threat assessment team that assesses potential threats to campus. The Dean of Students office (or similar) may turn over the documents to that team.
– Christopher
yesterday
In my experience, the department under the Dean of Students often has staff that receives reports about students with mental health concerns. The staff in that office would know how to proceed, and what university procedures should be initiated. Your university probably also has some sort of threat assessment team that assesses potential threats to campus. The Dean of Students office (or similar) may turn over the documents to that team.
– Christopher
yesterday
6
6
Serious question: are you a fan of horror/slasher films?
– Alex Reinking
yesterday
Serious question: are you a fan of horror/slasher films?
– Alex Reinking
yesterday
53
53
I want to commend you for your stance in the second-to-last paragraph (not wanting to punish someone for "thought crimes", and admitting to not being psychologists). Far too many people think "oh, I read the WebMD synopsis of this mental health condition, I am now qualified to diagnose it!" It's good that you're aware of what you don't know, and are taking it into account.
– Nic Hartley
yesterday
I want to commend you for your stance in the second-to-last paragraph (not wanting to punish someone for "thought crimes", and admitting to not being psychologists). Far too many people think "oh, I read the WebMD synopsis of this mental health condition, I am now qualified to diagnose it!" It's good that you're aware of what you don't know, and are taking it into account.
– Nic Hartley
yesterday
6
6
"The assigned project was to produce a project dealing with a historical figure/event covered in the time period" Can you identify a specific historical figure or event from the diary? It may be less disturbing if he is recreating something that happened rather than making it all up himself. The tricky thing is to figure out if you have a Steven King or a serial killer. Don't forget to have a written trail of who you inform.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
"The assigned project was to produce a project dealing with a historical figure/event covered in the time period" Can you identify a specific historical figure or event from the diary? It may be less disturbing if he is recreating something that happened rather than making it all up himself. The tricky thing is to figure out if you have a Steven King or a serial killer. Don't forget to have a written trail of who you inform.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
12
12
@pmf Historically, disturbing imagery has been associated with nascent hostile intentions and been a valid cause for concern, potentially saving lives. Are you sure you don't want to associate with that ideology?
– Lightness Races in Orbit
18 hours ago
@pmf Historically, disturbing imagery has been associated with nascent hostile intentions and been a valid cause for concern, potentially saving lives. Are you sure you don't want to associate with that ideology?
– Lightness Races in Orbit
18 hours ago
|
show 11 more comments
7 Answers
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48
down vote
The "administration" is probably the wrong place to look. Instead, see if you your institution has some mental health staff, whether just associated contacts, or counselors, or even a dedicated behavior concerns advice function, to get proper advice. If the university is well-organized enough to have one of the latter, chances are they've also established policies requiring you to pursue this. And such an advice line would be well suited to tell you how to go about it. If your university doesn't, figure out where to report it.
Note that, unless your institution is highly dysfunctional, reporting concerning behavior and having a professional talk to the student in question shouldn't be considered a punishment, but a safety net.
As Buffy points out in a comment, the law may further require you to do some things, and avoid doing other things. While one would hope that the mental health support staff are well-informed, contacting the legal staff (University Counsel) may be useful. That said, as a non-lawyer person, I imagine most legal pitfalls concern naming the student when you shouldn't. Your initial inquiries need not include the name of the student, until you're convinced that you should.
13
The "administration" is probably the wrong place to look. - That said, when in doubt about things like this, talking to your chair is often a good thing to do. I think my chair is considerably more knowledgable about various resources for faculty than I am.
– Kimball
yesterday
7
I'd add that Deans and Chairs can be approached to determine the proper mechanism, while still maintaining the anonymity of the student.
– Scott Seidman
16 hours ago
By alerting mental health staff the OP would be making some serious presuppositions. I don't think that the case is obviously a mental health thing (without seeing the actual diary). As a student, getting contacted by mental health services over an assignment would make me extremely uncomfortable in class. As a department head, I would not appreciate not being consulted before invoking such a dramatic step involving a student.
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
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Not to be dismissive of this, but to be honest he sounds like the average "edgy" teenager/young adult. Maybe he's a fan of horror/slasher movies/history or just interested in serial killers in specific. I'm very interested in this type of things myself and I'm not violent in the slightest, I've also done some questionable school projects when I was younger, not only because of my interest in these subjects but also partly for shock factor and to stand out from the other works (which seems to have happened here).
That being said, there's always a chance he could become a serial killer or show signs of violence, etc, but anyone in your class could without explicitly demonstrating it. If anything, show it to your superiors or talk to him about it just to clear your conscience, and if you notice any other worrying signs maybe suggest an appointment with a mental health specialist.
Grade wise, I do think he deserves a high grade if he did a good/accurate and detailed work, independent of opinion or personal taste on the matter.
New contributor
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[A student wrote] a diary for a famous American serial killer...graphically detail[ing] the killings this man performed, including hand sketches of female genetilia...[The student will likely receive] a fairly high grade on the project.
It seems like the student should be commended for their account of historic events.
It is a horrifically disturbing piece of work.
That seems like an excellent portrayal of a serial killer.
(as far as we can tell) splatters of real blood
You've acknowledged that it might not be real...
I'm left thinking: The student should be commended. That said, I don't have a full picture and you certainly "do not want to become part of history ourselves by being 'that one professor'." I recommend passing the buck to your department head, to mitigate liability. As commented below, "if it all blows up, you can point fingers. If you don't, and it all blows up, fingers will be pointed at you."
3
Dumping the whole thing on a more senior member of staff sounds like a wonderful idea. That way, if it all blows up, you can point fingers. If you don't, and it all blows up, fingers will be pointed at you.
– Valorum
13 hours ago
2
If I was the student and this project was entirely a creative exercise, I would consider being offered psych council for the disturbing content of the journal to be the highest form of praise.
– Abion47
7 hours ago
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You're the doctor. Ultimately, medicine has been a complete disaster with dealing with psychological issues. Firstly, note that it disturbs YOU. Until you acknowledge that, you can't tell if you or the student are disturbed (or undisturbed) in a healthy way.
Secondly, the ONLY healthy way to address the issue is to tell them your feeling about it, not as an equal, but from the point of view of being the superior. This way you'll perhaps learn something, rather than get more confused through attempting to understand each other. Something like: "This is not really appropriate result for the assignment. While detailing the account of a serial killer was aligned with the objective, you went into a depth that suggests that you have an underlying problem with sexuality."
This allows YOU to understand student psychology better, rather than hand it off to some unknown authority that isn't directly connected to the issue (as you are: you know what the assignment was and the context in which you asked it).
Every interaction with a student on difficult issues related to your mission is another chance to further your mastery of pedagogy and your curriculum. The more difficult it is, the more you have to gain -- whether you are right or wrong. You never want to give up those opportunities.
1
I strongly disagree with this - if the OP believes that a student has psychological issues, this is not a pedagogical challenge. We need to be aware of our own limitations as educators.
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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1
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TL;DR - if you're worried, contact the department head and recommend that they keep an eye out for further signs.
Let's start with the obvious: if you think that there is a clear and immediate threat to you, the student, or anyone else - contact the authorities.
I don't think that this is the case here though. The most reasonable explanation in my opinion is that this is a student who wants to be edgy/different, and has a thing for horror. Some of the things you point out do not sound too outlandish to me (at the risk of sounding crass, you can get a pretty good idea of what genitalia look like after 5 minutes on the web), but you are a better judge of that.
If you feel like this is unusually weird, and it raises red flags in your opinion, I would the department head. Your reaction needs to be measured when you present the case. The student committed no crime and took an unusual approach to an assignment. If you start a whole thing involving psychological services etc., it may turn out to be nothing, and may be construed as 'thought police-ey' (your department head may -rightly- think that you're overreacting). Just state that the work made you uncomfortable, and that its content may be indicative of some underlying issues. There is no ethical issue with showing students' work to colleagues (including department heads). Your department head will be in a better position to make a call - they'll be able to find out whether the student has been showing other disturbing signs in other classes, or on campus.
add a comment |
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Yesterday, a colleague from my school's history department brought me
a student's final project from her history class. The assigned project
was to produce a "creative" project dealing with a historical
figure/event covered in the time period of the class (20th century
United States).
What a strange university level type of history assignment ! Why would you want a student of history to get creative ?
(Neither my colleague nor I really wanted to fact check every detail
of a 200 page diary written in scrawled handwriting and splattered
with blood and sketches of vivisected women)
200 pages with drawings ? That seems overzealous, way too much work for an assignment, doesnt it ?
Although it's not your job to put a diagnostic on the student, it is possible that you dont find in the institution anyone whose job it is. In that case, you still gotta do something as a citizen.
The teacher can interview the student about the essay under the guise of finding it interesting and unusual, but with the real intent of probing the student. A paranoid/guilty student wouldnt submit such paper. I suggest the interview focuses on discerning the fantasy part in it and possibly concludes with a counselling offer if suitable.
The interviewer should ask questions as an amazed reader wanting to know more about the genesis of the work, this is well within the scope of teacher student interaction
-is this real blood? Is it yours ?
-did you write the thing on a word processor before handwriting it ?
-what sources did you use ? Did you get creative ? Where ?
-how did the idea come to you ?
-how much time did you spend on it etc....
Now if the student says it's his blood (show you the cuts), wrote all by hand without word processor, intertwined a lot of fantasy with few historical detail, and has always been fascinated with such things then it is certainly worthy of spending extra effort finding shrink help for the student.
New contributor
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Since it is a specific historical figure, the plus side is that he didn't come up with all of this on his own.
I would speak with your superior (chair/dept head/whatever) about it.
Additionally I would find a way to talk to a mental health professional about this - lead with the fact that this is an actual historical figure, because I think that's significant (the professional can dismiss this if they want). Explain that, while it meets the assignment and you will give him a good grade for the hard work, it is really disturbing to you, and you want someone else to see if something needs to be done.
So, which mental health professional?
Ideally your school has one for students - best choice because if this a meme that's going around your school recently (maybe Halloween time) about this, it would be 'more normal' than if it came out of the blue.
If that isn't an option, I'd talk to someone in your city/county mental health department. Get the person's name you speak with, explain what the situation is, and ask if you can show it to someone.
If your school has a psych department, I wouldn't show it to someone that does not currently have a practice - unless their doctorate is related to homicides (giving them specific knowledge).
Take photos of each page of his book in case you need it for reference. Take careful notes of each conversation you have when you talk to about this and get them notarized afterwards. If you are dealing with a serial killer (or pre-serial killer) type situation you want notarized documentation of what you did - it is more likely to be admissible in court (I'm not a lawyer, but that's what I think).
You could ask about this on https://law.stackexchange.com/
And because someone might think this is actionable... you need to figure out the process for disclosing the student's name in advance.
Don't tell me that when someone poses a credible threat to the public the name can't be disclosed, maybe you can't disclose it but someone or some process can. It would be bad to hear that they need the name today, and you don't know if you can, and you don't know who they can talk to about it.
I don't think that going with a student assignment outside of the department is acceptable, or legal for that matter (I'm not a lawyer though).
– Spark
7 hours ago
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7 Answers
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The "administration" is probably the wrong place to look. Instead, see if you your institution has some mental health staff, whether just associated contacts, or counselors, or even a dedicated behavior concerns advice function, to get proper advice. If the university is well-organized enough to have one of the latter, chances are they've also established policies requiring you to pursue this. And such an advice line would be well suited to tell you how to go about it. If your university doesn't, figure out where to report it.
Note that, unless your institution is highly dysfunctional, reporting concerning behavior and having a professional talk to the student in question shouldn't be considered a punishment, but a safety net.
As Buffy points out in a comment, the law may further require you to do some things, and avoid doing other things. While one would hope that the mental health support staff are well-informed, contacting the legal staff (University Counsel) may be useful. That said, as a non-lawyer person, I imagine most legal pitfalls concern naming the student when you shouldn't. Your initial inquiries need not include the name of the student, until you're convinced that you should.
13
The "administration" is probably the wrong place to look. - That said, when in doubt about things like this, talking to your chair is often a good thing to do. I think my chair is considerably more knowledgable about various resources for faculty than I am.
– Kimball
yesterday
7
I'd add that Deans and Chairs can be approached to determine the proper mechanism, while still maintaining the anonymity of the student.
– Scott Seidman
16 hours ago
By alerting mental health staff the OP would be making some serious presuppositions. I don't think that the case is obviously a mental health thing (without seeing the actual diary). As a student, getting contacted by mental health services over an assignment would make me extremely uncomfortable in class. As a department head, I would not appreciate not being consulted before invoking such a dramatic step involving a student.
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
48
down vote
The "administration" is probably the wrong place to look. Instead, see if you your institution has some mental health staff, whether just associated contacts, or counselors, or even a dedicated behavior concerns advice function, to get proper advice. If the university is well-organized enough to have one of the latter, chances are they've also established policies requiring you to pursue this. And such an advice line would be well suited to tell you how to go about it. If your university doesn't, figure out where to report it.
Note that, unless your institution is highly dysfunctional, reporting concerning behavior and having a professional talk to the student in question shouldn't be considered a punishment, but a safety net.
As Buffy points out in a comment, the law may further require you to do some things, and avoid doing other things. While one would hope that the mental health support staff are well-informed, contacting the legal staff (University Counsel) may be useful. That said, as a non-lawyer person, I imagine most legal pitfalls concern naming the student when you shouldn't. Your initial inquiries need not include the name of the student, until you're convinced that you should.
13
The "administration" is probably the wrong place to look. - That said, when in doubt about things like this, talking to your chair is often a good thing to do. I think my chair is considerably more knowledgable about various resources for faculty than I am.
– Kimball
yesterday
7
I'd add that Deans and Chairs can be approached to determine the proper mechanism, while still maintaining the anonymity of the student.
– Scott Seidman
16 hours ago
By alerting mental health staff the OP would be making some serious presuppositions. I don't think that the case is obviously a mental health thing (without seeing the actual diary). As a student, getting contacted by mental health services over an assignment would make me extremely uncomfortable in class. As a department head, I would not appreciate not being consulted before invoking such a dramatic step involving a student.
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
48
down vote
up vote
48
down vote
The "administration" is probably the wrong place to look. Instead, see if you your institution has some mental health staff, whether just associated contacts, or counselors, or even a dedicated behavior concerns advice function, to get proper advice. If the university is well-organized enough to have one of the latter, chances are they've also established policies requiring you to pursue this. And such an advice line would be well suited to tell you how to go about it. If your university doesn't, figure out where to report it.
Note that, unless your institution is highly dysfunctional, reporting concerning behavior and having a professional talk to the student in question shouldn't be considered a punishment, but a safety net.
As Buffy points out in a comment, the law may further require you to do some things, and avoid doing other things. While one would hope that the mental health support staff are well-informed, contacting the legal staff (University Counsel) may be useful. That said, as a non-lawyer person, I imagine most legal pitfalls concern naming the student when you shouldn't. Your initial inquiries need not include the name of the student, until you're convinced that you should.
The "administration" is probably the wrong place to look. Instead, see if you your institution has some mental health staff, whether just associated contacts, or counselors, or even a dedicated behavior concerns advice function, to get proper advice. If the university is well-organized enough to have one of the latter, chances are they've also established policies requiring you to pursue this. And such an advice line would be well suited to tell you how to go about it. If your university doesn't, figure out where to report it.
Note that, unless your institution is highly dysfunctional, reporting concerning behavior and having a professional talk to the student in question shouldn't be considered a punishment, but a safety net.
As Buffy points out in a comment, the law may further require you to do some things, and avoid doing other things. While one would hope that the mental health support staff are well-informed, contacting the legal staff (University Counsel) may be useful. That said, as a non-lawyer person, I imagine most legal pitfalls concern naming the student when you shouldn't. Your initial inquiries need not include the name of the student, until you're convinced that you should.
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
Anyon
5,58322336
5,58322336
13
The "administration" is probably the wrong place to look. - That said, when in doubt about things like this, talking to your chair is often a good thing to do. I think my chair is considerably more knowledgable about various resources for faculty than I am.
– Kimball
yesterday
7
I'd add that Deans and Chairs can be approached to determine the proper mechanism, while still maintaining the anonymity of the student.
– Scott Seidman
16 hours ago
By alerting mental health staff the OP would be making some serious presuppositions. I don't think that the case is obviously a mental health thing (without seeing the actual diary). As a student, getting contacted by mental health services over an assignment would make me extremely uncomfortable in class. As a department head, I would not appreciate not being consulted before invoking such a dramatic step involving a student.
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
13
The "administration" is probably the wrong place to look. - That said, when in doubt about things like this, talking to your chair is often a good thing to do. I think my chair is considerably more knowledgable about various resources for faculty than I am.
– Kimball
yesterday
7
I'd add that Deans and Chairs can be approached to determine the proper mechanism, while still maintaining the anonymity of the student.
– Scott Seidman
16 hours ago
By alerting mental health staff the OP would be making some serious presuppositions. I don't think that the case is obviously a mental health thing (without seeing the actual diary). As a student, getting contacted by mental health services over an assignment would make me extremely uncomfortable in class. As a department head, I would not appreciate not being consulted before invoking such a dramatic step involving a student.
– Spark
7 hours ago
13
13
The "administration" is probably the wrong place to look. - That said, when in doubt about things like this, talking to your chair is often a good thing to do. I think my chair is considerably more knowledgable about various resources for faculty than I am.
– Kimball
yesterday
The "administration" is probably the wrong place to look. - That said, when in doubt about things like this, talking to your chair is often a good thing to do. I think my chair is considerably more knowledgable about various resources for faculty than I am.
– Kimball
yesterday
7
7
I'd add that Deans and Chairs can be approached to determine the proper mechanism, while still maintaining the anonymity of the student.
– Scott Seidman
16 hours ago
I'd add that Deans and Chairs can be approached to determine the proper mechanism, while still maintaining the anonymity of the student.
– Scott Seidman
16 hours ago
By alerting mental health staff the OP would be making some serious presuppositions. I don't think that the case is obviously a mental health thing (without seeing the actual diary). As a student, getting contacted by mental health services over an assignment would make me extremely uncomfortable in class. As a department head, I would not appreciate not being consulted before invoking such a dramatic step involving a student.
– Spark
7 hours ago
By alerting mental health staff the OP would be making some serious presuppositions. I don't think that the case is obviously a mental health thing (without seeing the actual diary). As a student, getting contacted by mental health services over an assignment would make me extremely uncomfortable in class. As a department head, I would not appreciate not being consulted before invoking such a dramatic step involving a student.
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
Not to be dismissive of this, but to be honest he sounds like the average "edgy" teenager/young adult. Maybe he's a fan of horror/slasher movies/history or just interested in serial killers in specific. I'm very interested in this type of things myself and I'm not violent in the slightest, I've also done some questionable school projects when I was younger, not only because of my interest in these subjects but also partly for shock factor and to stand out from the other works (which seems to have happened here).
That being said, there's always a chance he could become a serial killer or show signs of violence, etc, but anyone in your class could without explicitly demonstrating it. If anything, show it to your superiors or talk to him about it just to clear your conscience, and if you notice any other worrying signs maybe suggest an appointment with a mental health specialist.
Grade wise, I do think he deserves a high grade if he did a good/accurate and detailed work, independent of opinion or personal taste on the matter.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
Not to be dismissive of this, but to be honest he sounds like the average "edgy" teenager/young adult. Maybe he's a fan of horror/slasher movies/history or just interested in serial killers in specific. I'm very interested in this type of things myself and I'm not violent in the slightest, I've also done some questionable school projects when I was younger, not only because of my interest in these subjects but also partly for shock factor and to stand out from the other works (which seems to have happened here).
That being said, there's always a chance he could become a serial killer or show signs of violence, etc, but anyone in your class could without explicitly demonstrating it. If anything, show it to your superiors or talk to him about it just to clear your conscience, and if you notice any other worrying signs maybe suggest an appointment with a mental health specialist.
Grade wise, I do think he deserves a high grade if he did a good/accurate and detailed work, independent of opinion or personal taste on the matter.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Not to be dismissive of this, but to be honest he sounds like the average "edgy" teenager/young adult. Maybe he's a fan of horror/slasher movies/history or just interested in serial killers in specific. I'm very interested in this type of things myself and I'm not violent in the slightest, I've also done some questionable school projects when I was younger, not only because of my interest in these subjects but also partly for shock factor and to stand out from the other works (which seems to have happened here).
That being said, there's always a chance he could become a serial killer or show signs of violence, etc, but anyone in your class could without explicitly demonstrating it. If anything, show it to your superiors or talk to him about it just to clear your conscience, and if you notice any other worrying signs maybe suggest an appointment with a mental health specialist.
Grade wise, I do think he deserves a high grade if he did a good/accurate and detailed work, independent of opinion or personal taste on the matter.
New contributor
Not to be dismissive of this, but to be honest he sounds like the average "edgy" teenager/young adult. Maybe he's a fan of horror/slasher movies/history or just interested in serial killers in specific. I'm very interested in this type of things myself and I'm not violent in the slightest, I've also done some questionable school projects when I was younger, not only because of my interest in these subjects but also partly for shock factor and to stand out from the other works (which seems to have happened here).
That being said, there's always a chance he could become a serial killer or show signs of violence, etc, but anyone in your class could without explicitly demonstrating it. If anything, show it to your superiors or talk to him about it just to clear your conscience, and if you notice any other worrying signs maybe suggest an appointment with a mental health specialist.
Grade wise, I do think he deserves a high grade if he did a good/accurate and detailed work, independent of opinion or personal taste on the matter.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 14 hours ago
S. M.
1411
1411
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
[A student wrote] a diary for a famous American serial killer...graphically detail[ing] the killings this man performed, including hand sketches of female genetilia...[The student will likely receive] a fairly high grade on the project.
It seems like the student should be commended for their account of historic events.
It is a horrifically disturbing piece of work.
That seems like an excellent portrayal of a serial killer.
(as far as we can tell) splatters of real blood
You've acknowledged that it might not be real...
I'm left thinking: The student should be commended. That said, I don't have a full picture and you certainly "do not want to become part of history ourselves by being 'that one professor'." I recommend passing the buck to your department head, to mitigate liability. As commented below, "if it all blows up, you can point fingers. If you don't, and it all blows up, fingers will be pointed at you."
3
Dumping the whole thing on a more senior member of staff sounds like a wonderful idea. That way, if it all blows up, you can point fingers. If you don't, and it all blows up, fingers will be pointed at you.
– Valorum
13 hours ago
2
If I was the student and this project was entirely a creative exercise, I would consider being offered psych council for the disturbing content of the journal to be the highest form of praise.
– Abion47
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
[A student wrote] a diary for a famous American serial killer...graphically detail[ing] the killings this man performed, including hand sketches of female genetilia...[The student will likely receive] a fairly high grade on the project.
It seems like the student should be commended for their account of historic events.
It is a horrifically disturbing piece of work.
That seems like an excellent portrayal of a serial killer.
(as far as we can tell) splatters of real blood
You've acknowledged that it might not be real...
I'm left thinking: The student should be commended. That said, I don't have a full picture and you certainly "do not want to become part of history ourselves by being 'that one professor'." I recommend passing the buck to your department head, to mitigate liability. As commented below, "if it all blows up, you can point fingers. If you don't, and it all blows up, fingers will be pointed at you."
3
Dumping the whole thing on a more senior member of staff sounds like a wonderful idea. That way, if it all blows up, you can point fingers. If you don't, and it all blows up, fingers will be pointed at you.
– Valorum
13 hours ago
2
If I was the student and this project was entirely a creative exercise, I would consider being offered psych council for the disturbing content of the journal to be the highest form of praise.
– Abion47
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
[A student wrote] a diary for a famous American serial killer...graphically detail[ing] the killings this man performed, including hand sketches of female genetilia...[The student will likely receive] a fairly high grade on the project.
It seems like the student should be commended for their account of historic events.
It is a horrifically disturbing piece of work.
That seems like an excellent portrayal of a serial killer.
(as far as we can tell) splatters of real blood
You've acknowledged that it might not be real...
I'm left thinking: The student should be commended. That said, I don't have a full picture and you certainly "do not want to become part of history ourselves by being 'that one professor'." I recommend passing the buck to your department head, to mitigate liability. As commented below, "if it all blows up, you can point fingers. If you don't, and it all blows up, fingers will be pointed at you."
[A student wrote] a diary for a famous American serial killer...graphically detail[ing] the killings this man performed, including hand sketches of female genetilia...[The student will likely receive] a fairly high grade on the project.
It seems like the student should be commended for their account of historic events.
It is a horrifically disturbing piece of work.
That seems like an excellent portrayal of a serial killer.
(as far as we can tell) splatters of real blood
You've acknowledged that it might not be real...
I'm left thinking: The student should be commended. That said, I don't have a full picture and you certainly "do not want to become part of history ourselves by being 'that one professor'." I recommend passing the buck to your department head, to mitigate liability. As commented below, "if it all blows up, you can point fingers. If you don't, and it all blows up, fingers will be pointed at you."
edited 13 hours ago
answered 15 hours ago
user2768
10.8k22948
10.8k22948
3
Dumping the whole thing on a more senior member of staff sounds like a wonderful idea. That way, if it all blows up, you can point fingers. If you don't, and it all blows up, fingers will be pointed at you.
– Valorum
13 hours ago
2
If I was the student and this project was entirely a creative exercise, I would consider being offered psych council for the disturbing content of the journal to be the highest form of praise.
– Abion47
7 hours ago
add a comment |
3
Dumping the whole thing on a more senior member of staff sounds like a wonderful idea. That way, if it all blows up, you can point fingers. If you don't, and it all blows up, fingers will be pointed at you.
– Valorum
13 hours ago
2
If I was the student and this project was entirely a creative exercise, I would consider being offered psych council for the disturbing content of the journal to be the highest form of praise.
– Abion47
7 hours ago
3
3
Dumping the whole thing on a more senior member of staff sounds like a wonderful idea. That way, if it all blows up, you can point fingers. If you don't, and it all blows up, fingers will be pointed at you.
– Valorum
13 hours ago
Dumping the whole thing on a more senior member of staff sounds like a wonderful idea. That way, if it all blows up, you can point fingers. If you don't, and it all blows up, fingers will be pointed at you.
– Valorum
13 hours ago
2
2
If I was the student and this project was entirely a creative exercise, I would consider being offered psych council for the disturbing content of the journal to be the highest form of praise.
– Abion47
7 hours ago
If I was the student and this project was entirely a creative exercise, I would consider being offered psych council for the disturbing content of the journal to be the highest form of praise.
– Abion47
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
You're the doctor. Ultimately, medicine has been a complete disaster with dealing with psychological issues. Firstly, note that it disturbs YOU. Until you acknowledge that, you can't tell if you or the student are disturbed (or undisturbed) in a healthy way.
Secondly, the ONLY healthy way to address the issue is to tell them your feeling about it, not as an equal, but from the point of view of being the superior. This way you'll perhaps learn something, rather than get more confused through attempting to understand each other. Something like: "This is not really appropriate result for the assignment. While detailing the account of a serial killer was aligned with the objective, you went into a depth that suggests that you have an underlying problem with sexuality."
This allows YOU to understand student psychology better, rather than hand it off to some unknown authority that isn't directly connected to the issue (as you are: you know what the assignment was and the context in which you asked it).
Every interaction with a student on difficult issues related to your mission is another chance to further your mastery of pedagogy and your curriculum. The more difficult it is, the more you have to gain -- whether you are right or wrong. You never want to give up those opportunities.
1
I strongly disagree with this - if the OP believes that a student has psychological issues, this is not a pedagogical challenge. We need to be aware of our own limitations as educators.
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
You're the doctor. Ultimately, medicine has been a complete disaster with dealing with psychological issues. Firstly, note that it disturbs YOU. Until you acknowledge that, you can't tell if you or the student are disturbed (or undisturbed) in a healthy way.
Secondly, the ONLY healthy way to address the issue is to tell them your feeling about it, not as an equal, but from the point of view of being the superior. This way you'll perhaps learn something, rather than get more confused through attempting to understand each other. Something like: "This is not really appropriate result for the assignment. While detailing the account of a serial killer was aligned with the objective, you went into a depth that suggests that you have an underlying problem with sexuality."
This allows YOU to understand student psychology better, rather than hand it off to some unknown authority that isn't directly connected to the issue (as you are: you know what the assignment was and the context in which you asked it).
Every interaction with a student on difficult issues related to your mission is another chance to further your mastery of pedagogy and your curriculum. The more difficult it is, the more you have to gain -- whether you are right or wrong. You never want to give up those opportunities.
1
I strongly disagree with this - if the OP believes that a student has psychological issues, this is not a pedagogical challenge. We need to be aware of our own limitations as educators.
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
You're the doctor. Ultimately, medicine has been a complete disaster with dealing with psychological issues. Firstly, note that it disturbs YOU. Until you acknowledge that, you can't tell if you or the student are disturbed (or undisturbed) in a healthy way.
Secondly, the ONLY healthy way to address the issue is to tell them your feeling about it, not as an equal, but from the point of view of being the superior. This way you'll perhaps learn something, rather than get more confused through attempting to understand each other. Something like: "This is not really appropriate result for the assignment. While detailing the account of a serial killer was aligned with the objective, you went into a depth that suggests that you have an underlying problem with sexuality."
This allows YOU to understand student psychology better, rather than hand it off to some unknown authority that isn't directly connected to the issue (as you are: you know what the assignment was and the context in which you asked it).
Every interaction with a student on difficult issues related to your mission is another chance to further your mastery of pedagogy and your curriculum. The more difficult it is, the more you have to gain -- whether you are right or wrong. You never want to give up those opportunities.
You're the doctor. Ultimately, medicine has been a complete disaster with dealing with psychological issues. Firstly, note that it disturbs YOU. Until you acknowledge that, you can't tell if you or the student are disturbed (or undisturbed) in a healthy way.
Secondly, the ONLY healthy way to address the issue is to tell them your feeling about it, not as an equal, but from the point of view of being the superior. This way you'll perhaps learn something, rather than get more confused through attempting to understand each other. Something like: "This is not really appropriate result for the assignment. While detailing the account of a serial killer was aligned with the objective, you went into a depth that suggests that you have an underlying problem with sexuality."
This allows YOU to understand student psychology better, rather than hand it off to some unknown authority that isn't directly connected to the issue (as you are: you know what the assignment was and the context in which you asked it).
Every interaction with a student on difficult issues related to your mission is another chance to further your mastery of pedagogy and your curriculum. The more difficult it is, the more you have to gain -- whether you are right or wrong. You never want to give up those opportunities.
edited 12 hours ago
answered 12 hours ago
TheDoctor
762312
762312
1
I strongly disagree with this - if the OP believes that a student has psychological issues, this is not a pedagogical challenge. We need to be aware of our own limitations as educators.
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
1
I strongly disagree with this - if the OP believes that a student has psychological issues, this is not a pedagogical challenge. We need to be aware of our own limitations as educators.
– Spark
7 hours ago
1
1
I strongly disagree with this - if the OP believes that a student has psychological issues, this is not a pedagogical challenge. We need to be aware of our own limitations as educators.
– Spark
7 hours ago
I strongly disagree with this - if the OP believes that a student has psychological issues, this is not a pedagogical challenge. We need to be aware of our own limitations as educators.
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
TL;DR - if you're worried, contact the department head and recommend that they keep an eye out for further signs.
Let's start with the obvious: if you think that there is a clear and immediate threat to you, the student, or anyone else - contact the authorities.
I don't think that this is the case here though. The most reasonable explanation in my opinion is that this is a student who wants to be edgy/different, and has a thing for horror. Some of the things you point out do not sound too outlandish to me (at the risk of sounding crass, you can get a pretty good idea of what genitalia look like after 5 minutes on the web), but you are a better judge of that.
If you feel like this is unusually weird, and it raises red flags in your opinion, I would the department head. Your reaction needs to be measured when you present the case. The student committed no crime and took an unusual approach to an assignment. If you start a whole thing involving psychological services etc., it may turn out to be nothing, and may be construed as 'thought police-ey' (your department head may -rightly- think that you're overreacting). Just state that the work made you uncomfortable, and that its content may be indicative of some underlying issues. There is no ethical issue with showing students' work to colleagues (including department heads). Your department head will be in a better position to make a call - they'll be able to find out whether the student has been showing other disturbing signs in other classes, or on campus.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
TL;DR - if you're worried, contact the department head and recommend that they keep an eye out for further signs.
Let's start with the obvious: if you think that there is a clear and immediate threat to you, the student, or anyone else - contact the authorities.
I don't think that this is the case here though. The most reasonable explanation in my opinion is that this is a student who wants to be edgy/different, and has a thing for horror. Some of the things you point out do not sound too outlandish to me (at the risk of sounding crass, you can get a pretty good idea of what genitalia look like after 5 minutes on the web), but you are a better judge of that.
If you feel like this is unusually weird, and it raises red flags in your opinion, I would the department head. Your reaction needs to be measured when you present the case. The student committed no crime and took an unusual approach to an assignment. If you start a whole thing involving psychological services etc., it may turn out to be nothing, and may be construed as 'thought police-ey' (your department head may -rightly- think that you're overreacting). Just state that the work made you uncomfortable, and that its content may be indicative of some underlying issues. There is no ethical issue with showing students' work to colleagues (including department heads). Your department head will be in a better position to make a call - they'll be able to find out whether the student has been showing other disturbing signs in other classes, or on campus.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
TL;DR - if you're worried, contact the department head and recommend that they keep an eye out for further signs.
Let's start with the obvious: if you think that there is a clear and immediate threat to you, the student, or anyone else - contact the authorities.
I don't think that this is the case here though. The most reasonable explanation in my opinion is that this is a student who wants to be edgy/different, and has a thing for horror. Some of the things you point out do not sound too outlandish to me (at the risk of sounding crass, you can get a pretty good idea of what genitalia look like after 5 minutes on the web), but you are a better judge of that.
If you feel like this is unusually weird, and it raises red flags in your opinion, I would the department head. Your reaction needs to be measured when you present the case. The student committed no crime and took an unusual approach to an assignment. If you start a whole thing involving psychological services etc., it may turn out to be nothing, and may be construed as 'thought police-ey' (your department head may -rightly- think that you're overreacting). Just state that the work made you uncomfortable, and that its content may be indicative of some underlying issues. There is no ethical issue with showing students' work to colleagues (including department heads). Your department head will be in a better position to make a call - they'll be able to find out whether the student has been showing other disturbing signs in other classes, or on campus.
TL;DR - if you're worried, contact the department head and recommend that they keep an eye out for further signs.
Let's start with the obvious: if you think that there is a clear and immediate threat to you, the student, or anyone else - contact the authorities.
I don't think that this is the case here though. The most reasonable explanation in my opinion is that this is a student who wants to be edgy/different, and has a thing for horror. Some of the things you point out do not sound too outlandish to me (at the risk of sounding crass, you can get a pretty good idea of what genitalia look like after 5 minutes on the web), but you are a better judge of that.
If you feel like this is unusually weird, and it raises red flags in your opinion, I would the department head. Your reaction needs to be measured when you present the case. The student committed no crime and took an unusual approach to an assignment. If you start a whole thing involving psychological services etc., it may turn out to be nothing, and may be construed as 'thought police-ey' (your department head may -rightly- think that you're overreacting). Just state that the work made you uncomfortable, and that its content may be indicative of some underlying issues. There is no ethical issue with showing students' work to colleagues (including department heads). Your department head will be in a better position to make a call - they'll be able to find out whether the student has been showing other disturbing signs in other classes, or on campus.
answered 7 hours ago
Spark
1,04110
1,04110
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Yesterday, a colleague from my school's history department brought me
a student's final project from her history class. The assigned project
was to produce a "creative" project dealing with a historical
figure/event covered in the time period of the class (20th century
United States).
What a strange university level type of history assignment ! Why would you want a student of history to get creative ?
(Neither my colleague nor I really wanted to fact check every detail
of a 200 page diary written in scrawled handwriting and splattered
with blood and sketches of vivisected women)
200 pages with drawings ? That seems overzealous, way too much work for an assignment, doesnt it ?
Although it's not your job to put a diagnostic on the student, it is possible that you dont find in the institution anyone whose job it is. In that case, you still gotta do something as a citizen.
The teacher can interview the student about the essay under the guise of finding it interesting and unusual, but with the real intent of probing the student. A paranoid/guilty student wouldnt submit such paper. I suggest the interview focuses on discerning the fantasy part in it and possibly concludes with a counselling offer if suitable.
The interviewer should ask questions as an amazed reader wanting to know more about the genesis of the work, this is well within the scope of teacher student interaction
-is this real blood? Is it yours ?
-did you write the thing on a word processor before handwriting it ?
-what sources did you use ? Did you get creative ? Where ?
-how did the idea come to you ?
-how much time did you spend on it etc....
Now if the student says it's his blood (show you the cuts), wrote all by hand without word processor, intertwined a lot of fantasy with few historical detail, and has always been fascinated with such things then it is certainly worthy of spending extra effort finding shrink help for the student.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Yesterday, a colleague from my school's history department brought me
a student's final project from her history class. The assigned project
was to produce a "creative" project dealing with a historical
figure/event covered in the time period of the class (20th century
United States).
What a strange university level type of history assignment ! Why would you want a student of history to get creative ?
(Neither my colleague nor I really wanted to fact check every detail
of a 200 page diary written in scrawled handwriting and splattered
with blood and sketches of vivisected women)
200 pages with drawings ? That seems overzealous, way too much work for an assignment, doesnt it ?
Although it's not your job to put a diagnostic on the student, it is possible that you dont find in the institution anyone whose job it is. In that case, you still gotta do something as a citizen.
The teacher can interview the student about the essay under the guise of finding it interesting and unusual, but with the real intent of probing the student. A paranoid/guilty student wouldnt submit such paper. I suggest the interview focuses on discerning the fantasy part in it and possibly concludes with a counselling offer if suitable.
The interviewer should ask questions as an amazed reader wanting to know more about the genesis of the work, this is well within the scope of teacher student interaction
-is this real blood? Is it yours ?
-did you write the thing on a word processor before handwriting it ?
-what sources did you use ? Did you get creative ? Where ?
-how did the idea come to you ?
-how much time did you spend on it etc....
Now if the student says it's his blood (show you the cuts), wrote all by hand without word processor, intertwined a lot of fantasy with few historical detail, and has always been fascinated with such things then it is certainly worthy of spending extra effort finding shrink help for the student.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Yesterday, a colleague from my school's history department brought me
a student's final project from her history class. The assigned project
was to produce a "creative" project dealing with a historical
figure/event covered in the time period of the class (20th century
United States).
What a strange university level type of history assignment ! Why would you want a student of history to get creative ?
(Neither my colleague nor I really wanted to fact check every detail
of a 200 page diary written in scrawled handwriting and splattered
with blood and sketches of vivisected women)
200 pages with drawings ? That seems overzealous, way too much work for an assignment, doesnt it ?
Although it's not your job to put a diagnostic on the student, it is possible that you dont find in the institution anyone whose job it is. In that case, you still gotta do something as a citizen.
The teacher can interview the student about the essay under the guise of finding it interesting and unusual, but with the real intent of probing the student. A paranoid/guilty student wouldnt submit such paper. I suggest the interview focuses on discerning the fantasy part in it and possibly concludes with a counselling offer if suitable.
The interviewer should ask questions as an amazed reader wanting to know more about the genesis of the work, this is well within the scope of teacher student interaction
-is this real blood? Is it yours ?
-did you write the thing on a word processor before handwriting it ?
-what sources did you use ? Did you get creative ? Where ?
-how did the idea come to you ?
-how much time did you spend on it etc....
Now if the student says it's his blood (show you the cuts), wrote all by hand without word processor, intertwined a lot of fantasy with few historical detail, and has always been fascinated with such things then it is certainly worthy of spending extra effort finding shrink help for the student.
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Yesterday, a colleague from my school's history department brought me
a student's final project from her history class. The assigned project
was to produce a "creative" project dealing with a historical
figure/event covered in the time period of the class (20th century
United States).
What a strange university level type of history assignment ! Why would you want a student of history to get creative ?
(Neither my colleague nor I really wanted to fact check every detail
of a 200 page diary written in scrawled handwriting and splattered
with blood and sketches of vivisected women)
200 pages with drawings ? That seems overzealous, way too much work for an assignment, doesnt it ?
Although it's not your job to put a diagnostic on the student, it is possible that you dont find in the institution anyone whose job it is. In that case, you still gotta do something as a citizen.
The teacher can interview the student about the essay under the guise of finding it interesting and unusual, but with the real intent of probing the student. A paranoid/guilty student wouldnt submit such paper. I suggest the interview focuses on discerning the fantasy part in it and possibly concludes with a counselling offer if suitable.
The interviewer should ask questions as an amazed reader wanting to know more about the genesis of the work, this is well within the scope of teacher student interaction
-is this real blood? Is it yours ?
-did you write the thing on a word processor before handwriting it ?
-what sources did you use ? Did you get creative ? Where ?
-how did the idea come to you ?
-how much time did you spend on it etc....
Now if the student says it's his blood (show you the cuts), wrote all by hand without word processor, intertwined a lot of fantasy with few historical detail, and has always been fascinated with such things then it is certainly worthy of spending extra effort finding shrink help for the student.
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answered 6 hours ago
Manu de Hanoi
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Since it is a specific historical figure, the plus side is that he didn't come up with all of this on his own.
I would speak with your superior (chair/dept head/whatever) about it.
Additionally I would find a way to talk to a mental health professional about this - lead with the fact that this is an actual historical figure, because I think that's significant (the professional can dismiss this if they want). Explain that, while it meets the assignment and you will give him a good grade for the hard work, it is really disturbing to you, and you want someone else to see if something needs to be done.
So, which mental health professional?
Ideally your school has one for students - best choice because if this a meme that's going around your school recently (maybe Halloween time) about this, it would be 'more normal' than if it came out of the blue.
If that isn't an option, I'd talk to someone in your city/county mental health department. Get the person's name you speak with, explain what the situation is, and ask if you can show it to someone.
If your school has a psych department, I wouldn't show it to someone that does not currently have a practice - unless their doctorate is related to homicides (giving them specific knowledge).
Take photos of each page of his book in case you need it for reference. Take careful notes of each conversation you have when you talk to about this and get them notarized afterwards. If you are dealing with a serial killer (or pre-serial killer) type situation you want notarized documentation of what you did - it is more likely to be admissible in court (I'm not a lawyer, but that's what I think).
You could ask about this on https://law.stackexchange.com/
And because someone might think this is actionable... you need to figure out the process for disclosing the student's name in advance.
Don't tell me that when someone poses a credible threat to the public the name can't be disclosed, maybe you can't disclose it but someone or some process can. It would be bad to hear that they need the name today, and you don't know if you can, and you don't know who they can talk to about it.
I don't think that going with a student assignment outside of the department is acceptable, or legal for that matter (I'm not a lawyer though).
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Since it is a specific historical figure, the plus side is that he didn't come up with all of this on his own.
I would speak with your superior (chair/dept head/whatever) about it.
Additionally I would find a way to talk to a mental health professional about this - lead with the fact that this is an actual historical figure, because I think that's significant (the professional can dismiss this if they want). Explain that, while it meets the assignment and you will give him a good grade for the hard work, it is really disturbing to you, and you want someone else to see if something needs to be done.
So, which mental health professional?
Ideally your school has one for students - best choice because if this a meme that's going around your school recently (maybe Halloween time) about this, it would be 'more normal' than if it came out of the blue.
If that isn't an option, I'd talk to someone in your city/county mental health department. Get the person's name you speak with, explain what the situation is, and ask if you can show it to someone.
If your school has a psych department, I wouldn't show it to someone that does not currently have a practice - unless their doctorate is related to homicides (giving them specific knowledge).
Take photos of each page of his book in case you need it for reference. Take careful notes of each conversation you have when you talk to about this and get them notarized afterwards. If you are dealing with a serial killer (or pre-serial killer) type situation you want notarized documentation of what you did - it is more likely to be admissible in court (I'm not a lawyer, but that's what I think).
You could ask about this on https://law.stackexchange.com/
And because someone might think this is actionable... you need to figure out the process for disclosing the student's name in advance.
Don't tell me that when someone poses a credible threat to the public the name can't be disclosed, maybe you can't disclose it but someone or some process can. It would be bad to hear that they need the name today, and you don't know if you can, and you don't know who they can talk to about it.
I don't think that going with a student assignment outside of the department is acceptable, or legal for that matter (I'm not a lawyer though).
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Since it is a specific historical figure, the plus side is that he didn't come up with all of this on his own.
I would speak with your superior (chair/dept head/whatever) about it.
Additionally I would find a way to talk to a mental health professional about this - lead with the fact that this is an actual historical figure, because I think that's significant (the professional can dismiss this if they want). Explain that, while it meets the assignment and you will give him a good grade for the hard work, it is really disturbing to you, and you want someone else to see if something needs to be done.
So, which mental health professional?
Ideally your school has one for students - best choice because if this a meme that's going around your school recently (maybe Halloween time) about this, it would be 'more normal' than if it came out of the blue.
If that isn't an option, I'd talk to someone in your city/county mental health department. Get the person's name you speak with, explain what the situation is, and ask if you can show it to someone.
If your school has a psych department, I wouldn't show it to someone that does not currently have a practice - unless their doctorate is related to homicides (giving them specific knowledge).
Take photos of each page of his book in case you need it for reference. Take careful notes of each conversation you have when you talk to about this and get them notarized afterwards. If you are dealing with a serial killer (or pre-serial killer) type situation you want notarized documentation of what you did - it is more likely to be admissible in court (I'm not a lawyer, but that's what I think).
You could ask about this on https://law.stackexchange.com/
And because someone might think this is actionable... you need to figure out the process for disclosing the student's name in advance.
Don't tell me that when someone poses a credible threat to the public the name can't be disclosed, maybe you can't disclose it but someone or some process can. It would be bad to hear that they need the name today, and you don't know if you can, and you don't know who they can talk to about it.
Since it is a specific historical figure, the plus side is that he didn't come up with all of this on his own.
I would speak with your superior (chair/dept head/whatever) about it.
Additionally I would find a way to talk to a mental health professional about this - lead with the fact that this is an actual historical figure, because I think that's significant (the professional can dismiss this if they want). Explain that, while it meets the assignment and you will give him a good grade for the hard work, it is really disturbing to you, and you want someone else to see if something needs to be done.
So, which mental health professional?
Ideally your school has one for students - best choice because if this a meme that's going around your school recently (maybe Halloween time) about this, it would be 'more normal' than if it came out of the blue.
If that isn't an option, I'd talk to someone in your city/county mental health department. Get the person's name you speak with, explain what the situation is, and ask if you can show it to someone.
If your school has a psych department, I wouldn't show it to someone that does not currently have a practice - unless their doctorate is related to homicides (giving them specific knowledge).
Take photos of each page of his book in case you need it for reference. Take careful notes of each conversation you have when you talk to about this and get them notarized afterwards. If you are dealing with a serial killer (or pre-serial killer) type situation you want notarized documentation of what you did - it is more likely to be admissible in court (I'm not a lawyer, but that's what I think).
You could ask about this on https://law.stackexchange.com/
And because someone might think this is actionable... you need to figure out the process for disclosing the student's name in advance.
Don't tell me that when someone poses a credible threat to the public the name can't be disclosed, maybe you can't disclose it but someone or some process can. It would be bad to hear that they need the name today, and you don't know if you can, and you don't know who they can talk to about it.
answered 16 hours ago
J. Chris Compton
67717
67717
I don't think that going with a student assignment outside of the department is acceptable, or legal for that matter (I'm not a lawyer though).
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
I don't think that going with a student assignment outside of the department is acceptable, or legal for that matter (I'm not a lawyer though).
– Spark
7 hours ago
I don't think that going with a student assignment outside of the department is acceptable, or legal for that matter (I'm not a lawyer though).
– Spark
7 hours ago
I don't think that going with a student assignment outside of the department is acceptable, or legal for that matter (I'm not a lawyer though).
– Spark
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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In my experience, the department under the Dean of Students often has staff that receives reports about students with mental health concerns. The staff in that office would know how to proceed, and what university procedures should be initiated. Your university probably also has some sort of threat assessment team that assesses potential threats to campus. The Dean of Students office (or similar) may turn over the documents to that team.
– Christopher
yesterday
6
Serious question: are you a fan of horror/slasher films?
– Alex Reinking
yesterday
53
I want to commend you for your stance in the second-to-last paragraph (not wanting to punish someone for "thought crimes", and admitting to not being psychologists). Far too many people think "oh, I read the WebMD synopsis of this mental health condition, I am now qualified to diagnose it!" It's good that you're aware of what you don't know, and are taking it into account.
– Nic Hartley
yesterday
6
"The assigned project was to produce a project dealing with a historical figure/event covered in the time period" Can you identify a specific historical figure or event from the diary? It may be less disturbing if he is recreating something that happened rather than making it all up himself. The tricky thing is to figure out if you have a Steven King or a serial killer. Don't forget to have a written trail of who you inform.
– J. Chris Compton
yesterday
12
@pmf Historically, disturbing imagery has been associated with nascent hostile intentions and been a valid cause for concern, potentially saving lives. Are you sure you don't want to associate with that ideology?
– Lightness Races in Orbit
18 hours ago