Instantaneous rate of change of the volume of a cone with respect to the radius, if the height is fixed












1












$begingroup$


My teacher has not taught us derivatives yet, so I need to solve this without their use.



The problem states: "Find the instantaneous rate of change of the volume $V=frac 13pi r^2 H$ of a cone with respect to the radius $r$ at $r=a$ if the height $H$ does not change."



I've already rearranged the problem into difference quotient form. According to the book and a calculator I found online the answer is $dfrac{2pi a H}{3}$.



Help would be very much appreciated as my test is coming up soon.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    1












    $begingroup$


    My teacher has not taught us derivatives yet, so I need to solve this without their use.



    The problem states: "Find the instantaneous rate of change of the volume $V=frac 13pi r^2 H$ of a cone with respect to the radius $r$ at $r=a$ if the height $H$ does not change."



    I've already rearranged the problem into difference quotient form. According to the book and a calculator I found online the answer is $dfrac{2pi a H}{3}$.



    Help would be very much appreciated as my test is coming up soon.










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      My teacher has not taught us derivatives yet, so I need to solve this without their use.



      The problem states: "Find the instantaneous rate of change of the volume $V=frac 13pi r^2 H$ of a cone with respect to the radius $r$ at $r=a$ if the height $H$ does not change."



      I've already rearranged the problem into difference quotient form. According to the book and a calculator I found online the answer is $dfrac{2pi a H}{3}$.



      Help would be very much appreciated as my test is coming up soon.










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      My teacher has not taught us derivatives yet, so I need to solve this without their use.



      The problem states: "Find the instantaneous rate of change of the volume $V=frac 13pi r^2 H$ of a cone with respect to the radius $r$ at $r=a$ if the height $H$ does not change."



      I've already rearranged the problem into difference quotient form. According to the book and a calculator I found online the answer is $dfrac{2pi a H}{3}$.



      Help would be very much appreciated as my test is coming up soon.







      calculus






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      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




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      edited Sep 17 '16 at 22:03









      6005

      36.3k751125




      36.3k751125










      asked Sep 17 '16 at 21:48









      JohnJohn

      612




      612






















          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          0












          $begingroup$

          The instantaneous rate of change with respect to $r$ is equal to the following:
          begin{align}
          lim_{h to 0} frac{frac{1}{3}pi (r+h)^2H-frac{1}{3}pi r^2H}{h}&=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{(r+h)^2-r^2}{h}right]\
          &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{r^2+2rh+h^2-r^2}{h}right]\
          &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{2rh+h^2}{h}right]\
          &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}2r+hright]\
          &=frac{2pi r H}{3}\
          end{align}
          So, when $r=a$, the instantaneous rate of change is
          $$frac{2pi a H}{3}$$






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$





















            0












            $begingroup$

            The difference quotient, between, say, $r= r_1$ and $r= r_2$ is $frac{frac{1}{3}r_1^2H- frac{1}{3}r^2H}{r_1- r_2}= frac{1}{3}Hfrac{r_1^2- r_2^2}{r_1- r^2}$.



            Some people prefer to use $r_1= 1$ and $r_2= r+ h$. In that case, $r_1^2- r_2^2= r_1^2- r_1^2- 2r_1h- h^2= -h(r_1+ h)$ and $r_1- r_2= r_1- r_1- h$= -h so the difference quotient is $frac{1}{3}Hfrac{-h(1+ h)}{-h}$.



            The "instantaneous rate of change" is the imit of those as $r_2$ goes to $r_1$ or as h goes to 0.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Shouldn't it be $$frac{1}{3}Hfrac{r_1^2-r_2^2}{r_1-r_2}$$?
              $endgroup$
              – Hrhm
              Sep 17 '16 at 22:14










            • $begingroup$
              Yes, I accidently had the subscript, $r_2$, as a superscript, $r^2$.
              $endgroup$
              – user247327
              Sep 17 '16 at 23:57



















            0












            $begingroup$

            $$V=frac 13pi r^2 H$$



            when $H$ is constant it means you are partially differentiating w.r.t. $r,$ leaving $H$ alone, i.e., as a constant.



            $$frac{dV}{dr}=frac 23pi r H$$



            At $r=a$ the d.c. evaluates to



            $$frac{dV}{dr}=frac 23pi a H $$






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Hem, without derivatives...
              $endgroup$
              – Yves Daoust
              Sep 11 '18 at 7:32



















            0












            $begingroup$

            For simplify of the notation, I will consider a "reduced volume" defined as follows:



            $$v:=frac{3V}{pi H}$$ so that $$v=r^2.$$ (Any computation about $V$ amounts to one about $v$, to a constant factor.)



            Now you give the radius a tiny variation, let $delta r$, and see how the reduced volume changes.



            We have
            $$delta v=(a+delta r)^2-a^2=(2a+delta r)delta r.$$



            Because of the factor $delta r$, the variation of the volume is also tiny and this is not so informative. This is why we want a rate of variation, i.e. the ratio of the volume variation over the radius variation,



            $$frac{delta v}{delta r}=2a+delta r.$$



            Now, you understand that when $delta r$ is made smaller and smaller, the first term stays constant, but the second vanishes. The rate is considered instantaneous when this second term can be completely neglected.



            Finally,



            $$frac{delta V}{delta r}approxfrac23pi aH=frac{d V}{d r},$$



            where the notation with $d$ indicates that we only want the term that does not vary with $delta r$.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













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              4 Answers
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              active

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              4 Answers
              4






              active

              oldest

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              active

              oldest

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              active

              oldest

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              0












              $begingroup$

              The instantaneous rate of change with respect to $r$ is equal to the following:
              begin{align}
              lim_{h to 0} frac{frac{1}{3}pi (r+h)^2H-frac{1}{3}pi r^2H}{h}&=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{(r+h)^2-r^2}{h}right]\
              &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{r^2+2rh+h^2-r^2}{h}right]\
              &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{2rh+h^2}{h}right]\
              &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}2r+hright]\
              &=frac{2pi r H}{3}\
              end{align}
              So, when $r=a$, the instantaneous rate of change is
              $$frac{2pi a H}{3}$$






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                0












                $begingroup$

                The instantaneous rate of change with respect to $r$ is equal to the following:
                begin{align}
                lim_{h to 0} frac{frac{1}{3}pi (r+h)^2H-frac{1}{3}pi r^2H}{h}&=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{(r+h)^2-r^2}{h}right]\
                &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{r^2+2rh+h^2-r^2}{h}right]\
                &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{2rh+h^2}{h}right]\
                &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}2r+hright]\
                &=frac{2pi r H}{3}\
                end{align}
                So, when $r=a$, the instantaneous rate of change is
                $$frac{2pi a H}{3}$$






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  The instantaneous rate of change with respect to $r$ is equal to the following:
                  begin{align}
                  lim_{h to 0} frac{frac{1}{3}pi (r+h)^2H-frac{1}{3}pi r^2H}{h}&=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{(r+h)^2-r^2}{h}right]\
                  &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{r^2+2rh+h^2-r^2}{h}right]\
                  &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{2rh+h^2}{h}right]\
                  &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}2r+hright]\
                  &=frac{2pi r H}{3}\
                  end{align}
                  So, when $r=a$, the instantaneous rate of change is
                  $$frac{2pi a H}{3}$$






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  The instantaneous rate of change with respect to $r$ is equal to the following:
                  begin{align}
                  lim_{h to 0} frac{frac{1}{3}pi (r+h)^2H-frac{1}{3}pi r^2H}{h}&=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{(r+h)^2-r^2}{h}right]\
                  &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{r^2+2rh+h^2-r^2}{h}right]\
                  &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}frac{2rh+h^2}{h}right]\
                  &=frac{pi H}{3}left[lim_{hto0}2r+hright]\
                  &=frac{2pi r H}{3}\
                  end{align}
                  So, when $r=a$, the instantaneous rate of change is
                  $$frac{2pi a H}{3}$$







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Sep 17 '16 at 22:05









                  HrhmHrhm

                  2,178417




                  2,178417























                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      The difference quotient, between, say, $r= r_1$ and $r= r_2$ is $frac{frac{1}{3}r_1^2H- frac{1}{3}r^2H}{r_1- r_2}= frac{1}{3}Hfrac{r_1^2- r_2^2}{r_1- r^2}$.



                      Some people prefer to use $r_1= 1$ and $r_2= r+ h$. In that case, $r_1^2- r_2^2= r_1^2- r_1^2- 2r_1h- h^2= -h(r_1+ h)$ and $r_1- r_2= r_1- r_1- h$= -h so the difference quotient is $frac{1}{3}Hfrac{-h(1+ h)}{-h}$.



                      The "instantaneous rate of change" is the imit of those as $r_2$ goes to $r_1$ or as h goes to 0.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        Shouldn't it be $$frac{1}{3}Hfrac{r_1^2-r_2^2}{r_1-r_2}$$?
                        $endgroup$
                        – Hrhm
                        Sep 17 '16 at 22:14










                      • $begingroup$
                        Yes, I accidently had the subscript, $r_2$, as a superscript, $r^2$.
                        $endgroup$
                        – user247327
                        Sep 17 '16 at 23:57
















                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      The difference quotient, between, say, $r= r_1$ and $r= r_2$ is $frac{frac{1}{3}r_1^2H- frac{1}{3}r^2H}{r_1- r_2}= frac{1}{3}Hfrac{r_1^2- r_2^2}{r_1- r^2}$.



                      Some people prefer to use $r_1= 1$ and $r_2= r+ h$. In that case, $r_1^2- r_2^2= r_1^2- r_1^2- 2r_1h- h^2= -h(r_1+ h)$ and $r_1- r_2= r_1- r_1- h$= -h so the difference quotient is $frac{1}{3}Hfrac{-h(1+ h)}{-h}$.



                      The "instantaneous rate of change" is the imit of those as $r_2$ goes to $r_1$ or as h goes to 0.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        Shouldn't it be $$frac{1}{3}Hfrac{r_1^2-r_2^2}{r_1-r_2}$$?
                        $endgroup$
                        – Hrhm
                        Sep 17 '16 at 22:14










                      • $begingroup$
                        Yes, I accidently had the subscript, $r_2$, as a superscript, $r^2$.
                        $endgroup$
                        – user247327
                        Sep 17 '16 at 23:57














                      0












                      0








                      0





                      $begingroup$

                      The difference quotient, between, say, $r= r_1$ and $r= r_2$ is $frac{frac{1}{3}r_1^2H- frac{1}{3}r^2H}{r_1- r_2}= frac{1}{3}Hfrac{r_1^2- r_2^2}{r_1- r^2}$.



                      Some people prefer to use $r_1= 1$ and $r_2= r+ h$. In that case, $r_1^2- r_2^2= r_1^2- r_1^2- 2r_1h- h^2= -h(r_1+ h)$ and $r_1- r_2= r_1- r_1- h$= -h so the difference quotient is $frac{1}{3}Hfrac{-h(1+ h)}{-h}$.



                      The "instantaneous rate of change" is the imit of those as $r_2$ goes to $r_1$ or as h goes to 0.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$



                      The difference quotient, between, say, $r= r_1$ and $r= r_2$ is $frac{frac{1}{3}r_1^2H- frac{1}{3}r^2H}{r_1- r_2}= frac{1}{3}Hfrac{r_1^2- r_2^2}{r_1- r^2}$.



                      Some people prefer to use $r_1= 1$ and $r_2= r+ h$. In that case, $r_1^2- r_2^2= r_1^2- r_1^2- 2r_1h- h^2= -h(r_1+ h)$ and $r_1- r_2= r_1- r_1- h$= -h so the difference quotient is $frac{1}{3}Hfrac{-h(1+ h)}{-h}$.



                      The "instantaneous rate of change" is the imit of those as $r_2$ goes to $r_1$ or as h goes to 0.







                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer










                      answered Sep 17 '16 at 22:07









                      user247327user247327

                      11.4k1516




                      11.4k1516












                      • $begingroup$
                        Shouldn't it be $$frac{1}{3}Hfrac{r_1^2-r_2^2}{r_1-r_2}$$?
                        $endgroup$
                        – Hrhm
                        Sep 17 '16 at 22:14










                      • $begingroup$
                        Yes, I accidently had the subscript, $r_2$, as a superscript, $r^2$.
                        $endgroup$
                        – user247327
                        Sep 17 '16 at 23:57


















                      • $begingroup$
                        Shouldn't it be $$frac{1}{3}Hfrac{r_1^2-r_2^2}{r_1-r_2}$$?
                        $endgroup$
                        – Hrhm
                        Sep 17 '16 at 22:14










                      • $begingroup$
                        Yes, I accidently had the subscript, $r_2$, as a superscript, $r^2$.
                        $endgroup$
                        – user247327
                        Sep 17 '16 at 23:57
















                      $begingroup$
                      Shouldn't it be $$frac{1}{3}Hfrac{r_1^2-r_2^2}{r_1-r_2}$$?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Hrhm
                      Sep 17 '16 at 22:14




                      $begingroup$
                      Shouldn't it be $$frac{1}{3}Hfrac{r_1^2-r_2^2}{r_1-r_2}$$?
                      $endgroup$
                      – Hrhm
                      Sep 17 '16 at 22:14












                      $begingroup$
                      Yes, I accidently had the subscript, $r_2$, as a superscript, $r^2$.
                      $endgroup$
                      – user247327
                      Sep 17 '16 at 23:57




                      $begingroup$
                      Yes, I accidently had the subscript, $r_2$, as a superscript, $r^2$.
                      $endgroup$
                      – user247327
                      Sep 17 '16 at 23:57











                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      $$V=frac 13pi r^2 H$$



                      when $H$ is constant it means you are partially differentiating w.r.t. $r,$ leaving $H$ alone, i.e., as a constant.



                      $$frac{dV}{dr}=frac 23pi r H$$



                      At $r=a$ the d.c. evaluates to



                      $$frac{dV}{dr}=frac 23pi a H $$






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        Hem, without derivatives...
                        $endgroup$
                        – Yves Daoust
                        Sep 11 '18 at 7:32
















                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      $$V=frac 13pi r^2 H$$



                      when $H$ is constant it means you are partially differentiating w.r.t. $r,$ leaving $H$ alone, i.e., as a constant.



                      $$frac{dV}{dr}=frac 23pi r H$$



                      At $r=a$ the d.c. evaluates to



                      $$frac{dV}{dr}=frac 23pi a H $$






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        Hem, without derivatives...
                        $endgroup$
                        – Yves Daoust
                        Sep 11 '18 at 7:32














                      0












                      0








                      0





                      $begingroup$

                      $$V=frac 13pi r^2 H$$



                      when $H$ is constant it means you are partially differentiating w.r.t. $r,$ leaving $H$ alone, i.e., as a constant.



                      $$frac{dV}{dr}=frac 23pi r H$$



                      At $r=a$ the d.c. evaluates to



                      $$frac{dV}{dr}=frac 23pi a H $$






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$



                      $$V=frac 13pi r^2 H$$



                      when $H$ is constant it means you are partially differentiating w.r.t. $r,$ leaving $H$ alone, i.e., as a constant.



                      $$frac{dV}{dr}=frac 23pi r H$$



                      At $r=a$ the d.c. evaluates to



                      $$frac{dV}{dr}=frac 23pi a H $$







                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer










                      answered Dec 19 '17 at 9:42









                      NarasimhamNarasimham

                      20.9k62158




                      20.9k62158












                      • $begingroup$
                        Hem, without derivatives...
                        $endgroup$
                        – Yves Daoust
                        Sep 11 '18 at 7:32


















                      • $begingroup$
                        Hem, without derivatives...
                        $endgroup$
                        – Yves Daoust
                        Sep 11 '18 at 7:32
















                      $begingroup$
                      Hem, without derivatives...
                      $endgroup$
                      – Yves Daoust
                      Sep 11 '18 at 7:32




                      $begingroup$
                      Hem, without derivatives...
                      $endgroup$
                      – Yves Daoust
                      Sep 11 '18 at 7:32











                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      For simplify of the notation, I will consider a "reduced volume" defined as follows:



                      $$v:=frac{3V}{pi H}$$ so that $$v=r^2.$$ (Any computation about $V$ amounts to one about $v$, to a constant factor.)



                      Now you give the radius a tiny variation, let $delta r$, and see how the reduced volume changes.



                      We have
                      $$delta v=(a+delta r)^2-a^2=(2a+delta r)delta r.$$



                      Because of the factor $delta r$, the variation of the volume is also tiny and this is not so informative. This is why we want a rate of variation, i.e. the ratio of the volume variation over the radius variation,



                      $$frac{delta v}{delta r}=2a+delta r.$$



                      Now, you understand that when $delta r$ is made smaller and smaller, the first term stays constant, but the second vanishes. The rate is considered instantaneous when this second term can be completely neglected.



                      Finally,



                      $$frac{delta V}{delta r}approxfrac23pi aH=frac{d V}{d r},$$



                      where the notation with $d$ indicates that we only want the term that does not vary with $delta r$.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$


















                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        For simplify of the notation, I will consider a "reduced volume" defined as follows:



                        $$v:=frac{3V}{pi H}$$ so that $$v=r^2.$$ (Any computation about $V$ amounts to one about $v$, to a constant factor.)



                        Now you give the radius a tiny variation, let $delta r$, and see how the reduced volume changes.



                        We have
                        $$delta v=(a+delta r)^2-a^2=(2a+delta r)delta r.$$



                        Because of the factor $delta r$, the variation of the volume is also tiny and this is not so informative. This is why we want a rate of variation, i.e. the ratio of the volume variation over the radius variation,



                        $$frac{delta v}{delta r}=2a+delta r.$$



                        Now, you understand that when $delta r$ is made smaller and smaller, the first term stays constant, but the second vanishes. The rate is considered instantaneous when this second term can be completely neglected.



                        Finally,



                        $$frac{delta V}{delta r}approxfrac23pi aH=frac{d V}{d r},$$



                        where the notation with $d$ indicates that we only want the term that does not vary with $delta r$.






                        share|cite|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$
















                          0












                          0








                          0





                          $begingroup$

                          For simplify of the notation, I will consider a "reduced volume" defined as follows:



                          $$v:=frac{3V}{pi H}$$ so that $$v=r^2.$$ (Any computation about $V$ amounts to one about $v$, to a constant factor.)



                          Now you give the radius a tiny variation, let $delta r$, and see how the reduced volume changes.



                          We have
                          $$delta v=(a+delta r)^2-a^2=(2a+delta r)delta r.$$



                          Because of the factor $delta r$, the variation of the volume is also tiny and this is not so informative. This is why we want a rate of variation, i.e. the ratio of the volume variation over the radius variation,



                          $$frac{delta v}{delta r}=2a+delta r.$$



                          Now, you understand that when $delta r$ is made smaller and smaller, the first term stays constant, but the second vanishes. The rate is considered instantaneous when this second term can be completely neglected.



                          Finally,



                          $$frac{delta V}{delta r}approxfrac23pi aH=frac{d V}{d r},$$



                          where the notation with $d$ indicates that we only want the term that does not vary with $delta r$.






                          share|cite|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$



                          For simplify of the notation, I will consider a "reduced volume" defined as follows:



                          $$v:=frac{3V}{pi H}$$ so that $$v=r^2.$$ (Any computation about $V$ amounts to one about $v$, to a constant factor.)



                          Now you give the radius a tiny variation, let $delta r$, and see how the reduced volume changes.



                          We have
                          $$delta v=(a+delta r)^2-a^2=(2a+delta r)delta r.$$



                          Because of the factor $delta r$, the variation of the volume is also tiny and this is not so informative. This is why we want a rate of variation, i.e. the ratio of the volume variation over the radius variation,



                          $$frac{delta v}{delta r}=2a+delta r.$$



                          Now, you understand that when $delta r$ is made smaller and smaller, the first term stays constant, but the second vanishes. The rate is considered instantaneous when this second term can be completely neglected.



                          Finally,



                          $$frac{delta V}{delta r}approxfrac23pi aH=frac{d V}{d r},$$



                          where the notation with $d$ indicates that we only want the term that does not vary with $delta r$.







                          share|cite|improve this answer














                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer








                          edited Sep 11 '18 at 7:44

























                          answered Sep 11 '18 at 7:31









                          Yves DaoustYves Daoust

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