A non-noetherian ring with noetherian spectrum
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Question 1: Does such a ring can be found?
Note: The definition of a noetherian topological space is similar to that in rings or sets. Every descending chain of closed subsets stops after a finite number of steps
(Question 2: is this equivalent to saying that every descending chain of opens stops?)
commutative-algebra
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up vote
18
down vote
favorite
Question 1: Does such a ring can be found?
Note: The definition of a noetherian topological space is similar to that in rings or sets. Every descending chain of closed subsets stops after a finite number of steps
(Question 2: is this equivalent to saying that every descending chain of opens stops?)
commutative-algebra
Question 2 arises because of Z, noetherian but non-artinian: definitions given dually deceive me every time...
– Fosco Loregian
Oct 21 '10 at 9:00
2
If $m$ is a maximal ideal of a commutative ring $R$, then $R / m^r$ has only $m/m^r$ as prime ideal, since any prime has the form $p/m^r$, so that $m = sqrt{m^r} subset p implies m=p$, since $m$ is maximal. So it is sufficient to find an example where $m/m^r$ is not finitely generated as $R/m^r$-module, which implies that $R/m^r$ is not Noetherian. $tag*{}$ Moreover, the spectrum of a commutative ring is Noetherian iff the ring satisfies a.c.c. on radical ideals.
– Watson
Jan 25 '17 at 20:55
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up vote
18
down vote
favorite
up vote
18
down vote
favorite
Question 1: Does such a ring can be found?
Note: The definition of a noetherian topological space is similar to that in rings or sets. Every descending chain of closed subsets stops after a finite number of steps
(Question 2: is this equivalent to saying that every descending chain of opens stops?)
commutative-algebra
Question 1: Does such a ring can be found?
Note: The definition of a noetherian topological space is similar to that in rings or sets. Every descending chain of closed subsets stops after a finite number of steps
(Question 2: is this equivalent to saying that every descending chain of opens stops?)
commutative-algebra
commutative-algebra
edited Dec 3 '17 at 8:46
user26857
39.1k123882
39.1k123882
asked Oct 21 '10 at 8:56
Fosco Loregian
4,64011946
4,64011946
Question 2 arises because of Z, noetherian but non-artinian: definitions given dually deceive me every time...
– Fosco Loregian
Oct 21 '10 at 9:00
2
If $m$ is a maximal ideal of a commutative ring $R$, then $R / m^r$ has only $m/m^r$ as prime ideal, since any prime has the form $p/m^r$, so that $m = sqrt{m^r} subset p implies m=p$, since $m$ is maximal. So it is sufficient to find an example where $m/m^r$ is not finitely generated as $R/m^r$-module, which implies that $R/m^r$ is not Noetherian. $tag*{}$ Moreover, the spectrum of a commutative ring is Noetherian iff the ring satisfies a.c.c. on radical ideals.
– Watson
Jan 25 '17 at 20:55
add a comment |
Question 2 arises because of Z, noetherian but non-artinian: definitions given dually deceive me every time...
– Fosco Loregian
Oct 21 '10 at 9:00
2
If $m$ is a maximal ideal of a commutative ring $R$, then $R / m^r$ has only $m/m^r$ as prime ideal, since any prime has the form $p/m^r$, so that $m = sqrt{m^r} subset p implies m=p$, since $m$ is maximal. So it is sufficient to find an example where $m/m^r$ is not finitely generated as $R/m^r$-module, which implies that $R/m^r$ is not Noetherian. $tag*{}$ Moreover, the spectrum of a commutative ring is Noetherian iff the ring satisfies a.c.c. on radical ideals.
– Watson
Jan 25 '17 at 20:55
Question 2 arises because of Z, noetherian but non-artinian: definitions given dually deceive me every time...
– Fosco Loregian
Oct 21 '10 at 9:00
Question 2 arises because of Z, noetherian but non-artinian: definitions given dually deceive me every time...
– Fosco Loregian
Oct 21 '10 at 9:00
2
2
If $m$ is a maximal ideal of a commutative ring $R$, then $R / m^r$ has only $m/m^r$ as prime ideal, since any prime has the form $p/m^r$, so that $m = sqrt{m^r} subset p implies m=p$, since $m$ is maximal. So it is sufficient to find an example where $m/m^r$ is not finitely generated as $R/m^r$-module, which implies that $R/m^r$ is not Noetherian. $tag*{}$ Moreover, the spectrum of a commutative ring is Noetherian iff the ring satisfies a.c.c. on radical ideals.
– Watson
Jan 25 '17 at 20:55
If $m$ is a maximal ideal of a commutative ring $R$, then $R / m^r$ has only $m/m^r$ as prime ideal, since any prime has the form $p/m^r$, so that $m = sqrt{m^r} subset p implies m=p$, since $m$ is maximal. So it is sufficient to find an example where $m/m^r$ is not finitely generated as $R/m^r$-module, which implies that $R/m^r$ is not Noetherian. $tag*{}$ Moreover, the spectrum of a commutative ring is Noetherian iff the ring satisfies a.c.c. on radical ideals.
– Watson
Jan 25 '17 at 20:55
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6 Answers
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33
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accepted
It is easy to come up with examples when you keep in mind that $X$ and $X_{text{red}}$ are homeomorphic: The topology is not changed when you divide out (all) nilpotent sections.
For example, $A = k[x_1,x_2,...] / (x_1^2,x_2^2,...)$ satisfies $A/mathrm{rad}(A)=k$, so that $mathrm{Spec}(A)$ consists of exactly one point, namely the maximal ideal $(x_1,x_2,...)$, which is not finitely generated.
In general, $mathrm{Spec}(A)$ is a noetherian topological space iff $A$ satisfies the ascending chain condition for radical ideals.
I was going to leave an answer to this question, but this is exactly what I was going to write!
– Pete L. Clark
Oct 21 '10 at 14:42
add a comment |
up vote
20
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If the non-noetherianness of the ring is hidden inside the nilradical, then $mathrm{Spec}$ won't see it.
Let $k$ be any ring, and let $V$ be a free $k$-module of infinite rank. Consider $R=koplus V$, and turn it into a ring by defining $$(a,v)cdot(b,w)=(ab,aw+bv).$$ (Representation-people call this a trivial extension) Then $R$ is not-noetherian, because every $k$-submodule of $V$ is an ideal in $R$. Yet $V$ is contained in the nilradical of $R$: if you look at $mathrm{Spec};R$ and at $mathrm{Spec};k$, you'll see that they are very similar.
As for your second question: no. If $k$ is an infinite field, then $mathrm{Spec};k[X]$ is noetherian, yet you'll easily find a decreasing chain of open sets init which does not stop. (What examples did you consider before asking the question? :) )
I hope you agree that this dot looks better.
– Rasmus
Oct 21 '10 at 16:33
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Answer to question 1: Yes.
Take a non-noetherian valuation domain $R$ of finite Krull dimension. The spectrum of $R$ is totally ordered under inclusion hence finite.
H
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3
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Two more examples I think work...
Let $k$ be a field, and $A = k[x_1,x_2,ldots]$
a polynomial ring over $k$ in countably many indeterminates.
Let $mathfrak{b}$ be the ideal generated by $x_1^2$ and
$x_n - x_{n+1}^2$ for all $n geq 1$.
Write $y_n = bar x_n$ in $B = A/mathfrak{b}$.
Then $y_1^2 = 0$ and $y_n = y_{n+1}^2$ for all $n geq 1$,
so $y_n^{2^n} = 0$.
If $mathfrak{p} = (y_1,y_2,ldots)$,
we have $B/mathfrak{p} cong k$, so $mathfrak{p}$ is maximal.
On the other hand, the generators of $mathfrak{p}$ are nilpotent, so
$mathfrak{p}$ is contained in the nilradical of $B$, and hence is the unique minimal prime as well.
Since all primes then contain the maximal ideal $mathfrak{p}$
$mathfrak{p}$ is the only prime of $B$.
Thus $mathrm{Spec}(B) = {mathfrak{p}}$ is obviously Noetherian.
But $(y_1) subsetneq (y_2) subsetneq (y_3) subsetneq cdots$
is an infinite ascending chain of ideals, so $B$ is not Noetherian.Let $k$ be a field, $mathbb{Q}$ the additive group of rational numbers, and $k[mathbb{Q}]$ the group algebra. If $K$ is its field of fractions, there is a naturally associated valuation $vcolon K^times twoheadrightarrow mathbb{Q}$; let $A = {0} cup {x in K : v(x) geq 0}$ be the associated valuation ring. It has an ideal $mathfrak{a}_q = {x in K : v(x) geq q}$ for each rational $q > 0$, with $mathfrak{a}_q subsetneq mathfrak{a}_r$ if $r < q$. Thus, taking an infinite decreasing sequence $(q_j)$, we see $A$ is not Noetherian. However, the only prime ideal of $A$ is $mathfrak{p} = {x in K : v(x) > 0}$.
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$newcommand{Z}{mathbb{Z}}$
Just to supply another example. Let $R$ be the subring $Z/4+(2)subset(Z/4)[x_1,x_2,cdots]$. (In general, the sum of a subring and an ideal is a subring.) $R$ consists of all polynomials in $(Z/4)[x_1,x_2,cdots]$ with coefficients of non-constant terms nilpotent. The nilradical of $R$ is $(2)$, and $R/(2)=Z/2$ is a field, so $mathrm{Spec}(R)$ is Noetherian. However, $(2x_1)subset(2x_1,2x_2)subsetcdots$ is a strictly ascending chain.
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Yet another example from the $p$-adic world: Let $p$ be prime $F = ℚ_p^{mathrm{tr}}$ the maximal totally ramified extension of $ℚ_p$. Then $F$ is a non-archimedically valued field with a value $lvert, ·,rvert colon F → [0..∞)$ that extends every value of every finite totally ramified extension of $ℚ_p$.
Hence, $mathfrak o = {x ∈ F;~lvert x rvert ≤ 1 }$ is a local ring with its maximal ideal given by $mathfrak m = {x ∈ mathfrak o;~lvert x rvert < 1 }$. Let $mathfrak a = pmathfrak o = {x ∈ mathfrak o;~lvert x rvert ≤ 1/p }$. Then $operatorname{rad} mathfrak a = mathfrak m$, and so $operatorname{Spec} mathfrak o / mathfrak a = operatorname{Spec} mathfrak o / mathfrak m$ is a point. However, $mathfrak o / mathfrak a$ is not Noetherian, since there are infinite strictly ascending chains of ideals above $mathfrak a$, for instance
$$mathfrak a = (p) subsetneq (sqrt p) subsetneq (sqrt[4] p) subsetneq (sqrt[8] p) subsetneq ….$$
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6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
33
down vote
accepted
It is easy to come up with examples when you keep in mind that $X$ and $X_{text{red}}$ are homeomorphic: The topology is not changed when you divide out (all) nilpotent sections.
For example, $A = k[x_1,x_2,...] / (x_1^2,x_2^2,...)$ satisfies $A/mathrm{rad}(A)=k$, so that $mathrm{Spec}(A)$ consists of exactly one point, namely the maximal ideal $(x_1,x_2,...)$, which is not finitely generated.
In general, $mathrm{Spec}(A)$ is a noetherian topological space iff $A$ satisfies the ascending chain condition for radical ideals.
I was going to leave an answer to this question, but this is exactly what I was going to write!
– Pete L. Clark
Oct 21 '10 at 14:42
add a comment |
up vote
33
down vote
accepted
It is easy to come up with examples when you keep in mind that $X$ and $X_{text{red}}$ are homeomorphic: The topology is not changed when you divide out (all) nilpotent sections.
For example, $A = k[x_1,x_2,...] / (x_1^2,x_2^2,...)$ satisfies $A/mathrm{rad}(A)=k$, so that $mathrm{Spec}(A)$ consists of exactly one point, namely the maximal ideal $(x_1,x_2,...)$, which is not finitely generated.
In general, $mathrm{Spec}(A)$ is a noetherian topological space iff $A$ satisfies the ascending chain condition for radical ideals.
I was going to leave an answer to this question, but this is exactly what I was going to write!
– Pete L. Clark
Oct 21 '10 at 14:42
add a comment |
up vote
33
down vote
accepted
up vote
33
down vote
accepted
It is easy to come up with examples when you keep in mind that $X$ and $X_{text{red}}$ are homeomorphic: The topology is not changed when you divide out (all) nilpotent sections.
For example, $A = k[x_1,x_2,...] / (x_1^2,x_2^2,...)$ satisfies $A/mathrm{rad}(A)=k$, so that $mathrm{Spec}(A)$ consists of exactly one point, namely the maximal ideal $(x_1,x_2,...)$, which is not finitely generated.
In general, $mathrm{Spec}(A)$ is a noetherian topological space iff $A$ satisfies the ascending chain condition for radical ideals.
It is easy to come up with examples when you keep in mind that $X$ and $X_{text{red}}$ are homeomorphic: The topology is not changed when you divide out (all) nilpotent sections.
For example, $A = k[x_1,x_2,...] / (x_1^2,x_2^2,...)$ satisfies $A/mathrm{rad}(A)=k$, so that $mathrm{Spec}(A)$ consists of exactly one point, namely the maximal ideal $(x_1,x_2,...)$, which is not finitely generated.
In general, $mathrm{Spec}(A)$ is a noetherian topological space iff $A$ satisfies the ascending chain condition for radical ideals.
edited Dec 3 '17 at 8:48
user26857
39.1k123882
39.1k123882
answered Oct 21 '10 at 14:30
Martin Brandenburg
107k13155324
107k13155324
I was going to leave an answer to this question, but this is exactly what I was going to write!
– Pete L. Clark
Oct 21 '10 at 14:42
add a comment |
I was going to leave an answer to this question, but this is exactly what I was going to write!
– Pete L. Clark
Oct 21 '10 at 14:42
I was going to leave an answer to this question, but this is exactly what I was going to write!
– Pete L. Clark
Oct 21 '10 at 14:42
I was going to leave an answer to this question, but this is exactly what I was going to write!
– Pete L. Clark
Oct 21 '10 at 14:42
add a comment |
up vote
20
down vote
If the non-noetherianness of the ring is hidden inside the nilradical, then $mathrm{Spec}$ won't see it.
Let $k$ be any ring, and let $V$ be a free $k$-module of infinite rank. Consider $R=koplus V$, and turn it into a ring by defining $$(a,v)cdot(b,w)=(ab,aw+bv).$$ (Representation-people call this a trivial extension) Then $R$ is not-noetherian, because every $k$-submodule of $V$ is an ideal in $R$. Yet $V$ is contained in the nilradical of $R$: if you look at $mathrm{Spec};R$ and at $mathrm{Spec};k$, you'll see that they are very similar.
As for your second question: no. If $k$ is an infinite field, then $mathrm{Spec};k[X]$ is noetherian, yet you'll easily find a decreasing chain of open sets init which does not stop. (What examples did you consider before asking the question? :) )
I hope you agree that this dot looks better.
– Rasmus
Oct 21 '10 at 16:33
add a comment |
up vote
20
down vote
If the non-noetherianness of the ring is hidden inside the nilradical, then $mathrm{Spec}$ won't see it.
Let $k$ be any ring, and let $V$ be a free $k$-module of infinite rank. Consider $R=koplus V$, and turn it into a ring by defining $$(a,v)cdot(b,w)=(ab,aw+bv).$$ (Representation-people call this a trivial extension) Then $R$ is not-noetherian, because every $k$-submodule of $V$ is an ideal in $R$. Yet $V$ is contained in the nilradical of $R$: if you look at $mathrm{Spec};R$ and at $mathrm{Spec};k$, you'll see that they are very similar.
As for your second question: no. If $k$ is an infinite field, then $mathrm{Spec};k[X]$ is noetherian, yet you'll easily find a decreasing chain of open sets init which does not stop. (What examples did you consider before asking the question? :) )
I hope you agree that this dot looks better.
– Rasmus
Oct 21 '10 at 16:33
add a comment |
up vote
20
down vote
up vote
20
down vote
If the non-noetherianness of the ring is hidden inside the nilradical, then $mathrm{Spec}$ won't see it.
Let $k$ be any ring, and let $V$ be a free $k$-module of infinite rank. Consider $R=koplus V$, and turn it into a ring by defining $$(a,v)cdot(b,w)=(ab,aw+bv).$$ (Representation-people call this a trivial extension) Then $R$ is not-noetherian, because every $k$-submodule of $V$ is an ideal in $R$. Yet $V$ is contained in the nilradical of $R$: if you look at $mathrm{Spec};R$ and at $mathrm{Spec};k$, you'll see that they are very similar.
As for your second question: no. If $k$ is an infinite field, then $mathrm{Spec};k[X]$ is noetherian, yet you'll easily find a decreasing chain of open sets init which does not stop. (What examples did you consider before asking the question? :) )
If the non-noetherianness of the ring is hidden inside the nilradical, then $mathrm{Spec}$ won't see it.
Let $k$ be any ring, and let $V$ be a free $k$-module of infinite rank. Consider $R=koplus V$, and turn it into a ring by defining $$(a,v)cdot(b,w)=(ab,aw+bv).$$ (Representation-people call this a trivial extension) Then $R$ is not-noetherian, because every $k$-submodule of $V$ is an ideal in $R$. Yet $V$ is contained in the nilradical of $R$: if you look at $mathrm{Spec};R$ and at $mathrm{Spec};k$, you'll see that they are very similar.
As for your second question: no. If $k$ is an infinite field, then $mathrm{Spec};k[X]$ is noetherian, yet you'll easily find a decreasing chain of open sets init which does not stop. (What examples did you consider before asking the question? :) )
edited Oct 21 '10 at 17:00
answered Oct 21 '10 at 14:03
Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
110k7155280
110k7155280
I hope you agree that this dot looks better.
– Rasmus
Oct 21 '10 at 16:33
add a comment |
I hope you agree that this dot looks better.
– Rasmus
Oct 21 '10 at 16:33
I hope you agree that this dot looks better.
– Rasmus
Oct 21 '10 at 16:33
I hope you agree that this dot looks better.
– Rasmus
Oct 21 '10 at 16:33
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
Answer to question 1: Yes.
Take a non-noetherian valuation domain $R$ of finite Krull dimension. The spectrum of $R$ is totally ordered under inclusion hence finite.
H
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
Answer to question 1: Yes.
Take a non-noetherian valuation domain $R$ of finite Krull dimension. The spectrum of $R$ is totally ordered under inclusion hence finite.
H
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
up vote
9
down vote
Answer to question 1: Yes.
Take a non-noetherian valuation domain $R$ of finite Krull dimension. The spectrum of $R$ is totally ordered under inclusion hence finite.
H
Answer to question 1: Yes.
Take a non-noetherian valuation domain $R$ of finite Krull dimension. The spectrum of $R$ is totally ordered under inclusion hence finite.
H
answered Oct 21 '10 at 12:27
Hagen Knaf
6,8521317
6,8521317
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Two more examples I think work...
Let $k$ be a field, and $A = k[x_1,x_2,ldots]$
a polynomial ring over $k$ in countably many indeterminates.
Let $mathfrak{b}$ be the ideal generated by $x_1^2$ and
$x_n - x_{n+1}^2$ for all $n geq 1$.
Write $y_n = bar x_n$ in $B = A/mathfrak{b}$.
Then $y_1^2 = 0$ and $y_n = y_{n+1}^2$ for all $n geq 1$,
so $y_n^{2^n} = 0$.
If $mathfrak{p} = (y_1,y_2,ldots)$,
we have $B/mathfrak{p} cong k$, so $mathfrak{p}$ is maximal.
On the other hand, the generators of $mathfrak{p}$ are nilpotent, so
$mathfrak{p}$ is contained in the nilradical of $B$, and hence is the unique minimal prime as well.
Since all primes then contain the maximal ideal $mathfrak{p}$
$mathfrak{p}$ is the only prime of $B$.
Thus $mathrm{Spec}(B) = {mathfrak{p}}$ is obviously Noetherian.
But $(y_1) subsetneq (y_2) subsetneq (y_3) subsetneq cdots$
is an infinite ascending chain of ideals, so $B$ is not Noetherian.Let $k$ be a field, $mathbb{Q}$ the additive group of rational numbers, and $k[mathbb{Q}]$ the group algebra. If $K$ is its field of fractions, there is a naturally associated valuation $vcolon K^times twoheadrightarrow mathbb{Q}$; let $A = {0} cup {x in K : v(x) geq 0}$ be the associated valuation ring. It has an ideal $mathfrak{a}_q = {x in K : v(x) geq q}$ for each rational $q > 0$, with $mathfrak{a}_q subsetneq mathfrak{a}_r$ if $r < q$. Thus, taking an infinite decreasing sequence $(q_j)$, we see $A$ is not Noetherian. However, the only prime ideal of $A$ is $mathfrak{p} = {x in K : v(x) > 0}$.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Two more examples I think work...
Let $k$ be a field, and $A = k[x_1,x_2,ldots]$
a polynomial ring over $k$ in countably many indeterminates.
Let $mathfrak{b}$ be the ideal generated by $x_1^2$ and
$x_n - x_{n+1}^2$ for all $n geq 1$.
Write $y_n = bar x_n$ in $B = A/mathfrak{b}$.
Then $y_1^2 = 0$ and $y_n = y_{n+1}^2$ for all $n geq 1$,
so $y_n^{2^n} = 0$.
If $mathfrak{p} = (y_1,y_2,ldots)$,
we have $B/mathfrak{p} cong k$, so $mathfrak{p}$ is maximal.
On the other hand, the generators of $mathfrak{p}$ are nilpotent, so
$mathfrak{p}$ is contained in the nilradical of $B$, and hence is the unique minimal prime as well.
Since all primes then contain the maximal ideal $mathfrak{p}$
$mathfrak{p}$ is the only prime of $B$.
Thus $mathrm{Spec}(B) = {mathfrak{p}}$ is obviously Noetherian.
But $(y_1) subsetneq (y_2) subsetneq (y_3) subsetneq cdots$
is an infinite ascending chain of ideals, so $B$ is not Noetherian.Let $k$ be a field, $mathbb{Q}$ the additive group of rational numbers, and $k[mathbb{Q}]$ the group algebra. If $K$ is its field of fractions, there is a naturally associated valuation $vcolon K^times twoheadrightarrow mathbb{Q}$; let $A = {0} cup {x in K : v(x) geq 0}$ be the associated valuation ring. It has an ideal $mathfrak{a}_q = {x in K : v(x) geq q}$ for each rational $q > 0$, with $mathfrak{a}_q subsetneq mathfrak{a}_r$ if $r < q$. Thus, taking an infinite decreasing sequence $(q_j)$, we see $A$ is not Noetherian. However, the only prime ideal of $A$ is $mathfrak{p} = {x in K : v(x) > 0}$.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Two more examples I think work...
Let $k$ be a field, and $A = k[x_1,x_2,ldots]$
a polynomial ring over $k$ in countably many indeterminates.
Let $mathfrak{b}$ be the ideal generated by $x_1^2$ and
$x_n - x_{n+1}^2$ for all $n geq 1$.
Write $y_n = bar x_n$ in $B = A/mathfrak{b}$.
Then $y_1^2 = 0$ and $y_n = y_{n+1}^2$ for all $n geq 1$,
so $y_n^{2^n} = 0$.
If $mathfrak{p} = (y_1,y_2,ldots)$,
we have $B/mathfrak{p} cong k$, so $mathfrak{p}$ is maximal.
On the other hand, the generators of $mathfrak{p}$ are nilpotent, so
$mathfrak{p}$ is contained in the nilradical of $B$, and hence is the unique minimal prime as well.
Since all primes then contain the maximal ideal $mathfrak{p}$
$mathfrak{p}$ is the only prime of $B$.
Thus $mathrm{Spec}(B) = {mathfrak{p}}$ is obviously Noetherian.
But $(y_1) subsetneq (y_2) subsetneq (y_3) subsetneq cdots$
is an infinite ascending chain of ideals, so $B$ is not Noetherian.Let $k$ be a field, $mathbb{Q}$ the additive group of rational numbers, and $k[mathbb{Q}]$ the group algebra. If $K$ is its field of fractions, there is a naturally associated valuation $vcolon K^times twoheadrightarrow mathbb{Q}$; let $A = {0} cup {x in K : v(x) geq 0}$ be the associated valuation ring. It has an ideal $mathfrak{a}_q = {x in K : v(x) geq q}$ for each rational $q > 0$, with $mathfrak{a}_q subsetneq mathfrak{a}_r$ if $r < q$. Thus, taking an infinite decreasing sequence $(q_j)$, we see $A$ is not Noetherian. However, the only prime ideal of $A$ is $mathfrak{p} = {x in K : v(x) > 0}$.
Two more examples I think work...
Let $k$ be a field, and $A = k[x_1,x_2,ldots]$
a polynomial ring over $k$ in countably many indeterminates.
Let $mathfrak{b}$ be the ideal generated by $x_1^2$ and
$x_n - x_{n+1}^2$ for all $n geq 1$.
Write $y_n = bar x_n$ in $B = A/mathfrak{b}$.
Then $y_1^2 = 0$ and $y_n = y_{n+1}^2$ for all $n geq 1$,
so $y_n^{2^n} = 0$.
If $mathfrak{p} = (y_1,y_2,ldots)$,
we have $B/mathfrak{p} cong k$, so $mathfrak{p}$ is maximal.
On the other hand, the generators of $mathfrak{p}$ are nilpotent, so
$mathfrak{p}$ is contained in the nilradical of $B$, and hence is the unique minimal prime as well.
Since all primes then contain the maximal ideal $mathfrak{p}$
$mathfrak{p}$ is the only prime of $B$.
Thus $mathrm{Spec}(B) = {mathfrak{p}}$ is obviously Noetherian.
But $(y_1) subsetneq (y_2) subsetneq (y_3) subsetneq cdots$
is an infinite ascending chain of ideals, so $B$ is not Noetherian.Let $k$ be a field, $mathbb{Q}$ the additive group of rational numbers, and $k[mathbb{Q}]$ the group algebra. If $K$ is its field of fractions, there is a naturally associated valuation $vcolon K^times twoheadrightarrow mathbb{Q}$; let $A = {0} cup {x in K : v(x) geq 0}$ be the associated valuation ring. It has an ideal $mathfrak{a}_q = {x in K : v(x) geq q}$ for each rational $q > 0$, with $mathfrak{a}_q subsetneq mathfrak{a}_r$ if $r < q$. Thus, taking an infinite decreasing sequence $(q_j)$, we see $A$ is not Noetherian. However, the only prime ideal of $A$ is $mathfrak{p} = {x in K : v(x) > 0}$.
answered Feb 15 '11 at 14:14
jdc
2,7311228
2,7311228
add a comment |
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up vote
3
down vote
$newcommand{Z}{mathbb{Z}}$
Just to supply another example. Let $R$ be the subring $Z/4+(2)subset(Z/4)[x_1,x_2,cdots]$. (In general, the sum of a subring and an ideal is a subring.) $R$ consists of all polynomials in $(Z/4)[x_1,x_2,cdots]$ with coefficients of non-constant terms nilpotent. The nilradical of $R$ is $(2)$, and $R/(2)=Z/2$ is a field, so $mathrm{Spec}(R)$ is Noetherian. However, $(2x_1)subset(2x_1,2x_2)subsetcdots$ is a strictly ascending chain.
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up vote
3
down vote
$newcommand{Z}{mathbb{Z}}$
Just to supply another example. Let $R$ be the subring $Z/4+(2)subset(Z/4)[x_1,x_2,cdots]$. (In general, the sum of a subring and an ideal is a subring.) $R$ consists of all polynomials in $(Z/4)[x_1,x_2,cdots]$ with coefficients of non-constant terms nilpotent. The nilradical of $R$ is $(2)$, and $R/(2)=Z/2$ is a field, so $mathrm{Spec}(R)$ is Noetherian. However, $(2x_1)subset(2x_1,2x_2)subsetcdots$ is a strictly ascending chain.
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
$newcommand{Z}{mathbb{Z}}$
Just to supply another example. Let $R$ be the subring $Z/4+(2)subset(Z/4)[x_1,x_2,cdots]$. (In general, the sum of a subring and an ideal is a subring.) $R$ consists of all polynomials in $(Z/4)[x_1,x_2,cdots]$ with coefficients of non-constant terms nilpotent. The nilradical of $R$ is $(2)$, and $R/(2)=Z/2$ is a field, so $mathrm{Spec}(R)$ is Noetherian. However, $(2x_1)subset(2x_1,2x_2)subsetcdots$ is a strictly ascending chain.
$newcommand{Z}{mathbb{Z}}$
Just to supply another example. Let $R$ be the subring $Z/4+(2)subset(Z/4)[x_1,x_2,cdots]$. (In general, the sum of a subring and an ideal is a subring.) $R$ consists of all polynomials in $(Z/4)[x_1,x_2,cdots]$ with coefficients of non-constant terms nilpotent. The nilradical of $R$ is $(2)$, and $R/(2)=Z/2$ is a field, so $mathrm{Spec}(R)$ is Noetherian. However, $(2x_1)subset(2x_1,2x_2)subsetcdots$ is a strictly ascending chain.
edited Mar 11 '13 at 23:41
answered Mar 11 '13 at 3:50
Junyan Xu
38828
38828
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Yet another example from the $p$-adic world: Let $p$ be prime $F = ℚ_p^{mathrm{tr}}$ the maximal totally ramified extension of $ℚ_p$. Then $F$ is a non-archimedically valued field with a value $lvert, ·,rvert colon F → [0..∞)$ that extends every value of every finite totally ramified extension of $ℚ_p$.
Hence, $mathfrak o = {x ∈ F;~lvert x rvert ≤ 1 }$ is a local ring with its maximal ideal given by $mathfrak m = {x ∈ mathfrak o;~lvert x rvert < 1 }$. Let $mathfrak a = pmathfrak o = {x ∈ mathfrak o;~lvert x rvert ≤ 1/p }$. Then $operatorname{rad} mathfrak a = mathfrak m$, and so $operatorname{Spec} mathfrak o / mathfrak a = operatorname{Spec} mathfrak o / mathfrak m$ is a point. However, $mathfrak o / mathfrak a$ is not Noetherian, since there are infinite strictly ascending chains of ideals above $mathfrak a$, for instance
$$mathfrak a = (p) subsetneq (sqrt p) subsetneq (sqrt[4] p) subsetneq (sqrt[8] p) subsetneq ….$$
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Yet another example from the $p$-adic world: Let $p$ be prime $F = ℚ_p^{mathrm{tr}}$ the maximal totally ramified extension of $ℚ_p$. Then $F$ is a non-archimedically valued field with a value $lvert, ·,rvert colon F → [0..∞)$ that extends every value of every finite totally ramified extension of $ℚ_p$.
Hence, $mathfrak o = {x ∈ F;~lvert x rvert ≤ 1 }$ is a local ring with its maximal ideal given by $mathfrak m = {x ∈ mathfrak o;~lvert x rvert < 1 }$. Let $mathfrak a = pmathfrak o = {x ∈ mathfrak o;~lvert x rvert ≤ 1/p }$. Then $operatorname{rad} mathfrak a = mathfrak m$, and so $operatorname{Spec} mathfrak o / mathfrak a = operatorname{Spec} mathfrak o / mathfrak m$ is a point. However, $mathfrak o / mathfrak a$ is not Noetherian, since there are infinite strictly ascending chains of ideals above $mathfrak a$, for instance
$$mathfrak a = (p) subsetneq (sqrt p) subsetneq (sqrt[4] p) subsetneq (sqrt[8] p) subsetneq ….$$
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Yet another example from the $p$-adic world: Let $p$ be prime $F = ℚ_p^{mathrm{tr}}$ the maximal totally ramified extension of $ℚ_p$. Then $F$ is a non-archimedically valued field with a value $lvert, ·,rvert colon F → [0..∞)$ that extends every value of every finite totally ramified extension of $ℚ_p$.
Hence, $mathfrak o = {x ∈ F;~lvert x rvert ≤ 1 }$ is a local ring with its maximal ideal given by $mathfrak m = {x ∈ mathfrak o;~lvert x rvert < 1 }$. Let $mathfrak a = pmathfrak o = {x ∈ mathfrak o;~lvert x rvert ≤ 1/p }$. Then $operatorname{rad} mathfrak a = mathfrak m$, and so $operatorname{Spec} mathfrak o / mathfrak a = operatorname{Spec} mathfrak o / mathfrak m$ is a point. However, $mathfrak o / mathfrak a$ is not Noetherian, since there are infinite strictly ascending chains of ideals above $mathfrak a$, for instance
$$mathfrak a = (p) subsetneq (sqrt p) subsetneq (sqrt[4] p) subsetneq (sqrt[8] p) subsetneq ….$$
Yet another example from the $p$-adic world: Let $p$ be prime $F = ℚ_p^{mathrm{tr}}$ the maximal totally ramified extension of $ℚ_p$. Then $F$ is a non-archimedically valued field with a value $lvert, ·,rvert colon F → [0..∞)$ that extends every value of every finite totally ramified extension of $ℚ_p$.
Hence, $mathfrak o = {x ∈ F;~lvert x rvert ≤ 1 }$ is a local ring with its maximal ideal given by $mathfrak m = {x ∈ mathfrak o;~lvert x rvert < 1 }$. Let $mathfrak a = pmathfrak o = {x ∈ mathfrak o;~lvert x rvert ≤ 1/p }$. Then $operatorname{rad} mathfrak a = mathfrak m$, and so $operatorname{Spec} mathfrak o / mathfrak a = operatorname{Spec} mathfrak o / mathfrak m$ is a point. However, $mathfrak o / mathfrak a$ is not Noetherian, since there are infinite strictly ascending chains of ideals above $mathfrak a$, for instance
$$mathfrak a = (p) subsetneq (sqrt p) subsetneq (sqrt[4] p) subsetneq (sqrt[8] p) subsetneq ….$$
answered Nov 16 at 19:22
k.stm
10.7k22249
10.7k22249
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Question 2 arises because of Z, noetherian but non-artinian: definitions given dually deceive me every time...
– Fosco Loregian
Oct 21 '10 at 9:00
2
If $m$ is a maximal ideal of a commutative ring $R$, then $R / m^r$ has only $m/m^r$ as prime ideal, since any prime has the form $p/m^r$, so that $m = sqrt{m^r} subset p implies m=p$, since $m$ is maximal. So it is sufficient to find an example where $m/m^r$ is not finitely generated as $R/m^r$-module, which implies that $R/m^r$ is not Noetherian. $tag*{}$ Moreover, the spectrum of a commutative ring is Noetherian iff the ring satisfies a.c.c. on radical ideals.
– Watson
Jan 25 '17 at 20:55