Round Robin “King” Style Tournament












5












$begingroup$


I have spent too long trying to figure this out and cannot seem to get it just right, so here I am asking the Math gods. This weekend I played in a volleyball tournament called "King of the Beach", where the tournament was structured with two pools of individual players. The format was in such a way that each player would play every other player in their own pool, with a player from the second pool as their teammate (ie pool A-F and pool 1-6). An example match would be the teams of A1 vs B2 or A1 vs C5.



Under this format, all letters (A-F) would play all other letters with a number (1-6) partner, and all numbers would player all other numbers with a letter partner.



I am trying to set up something similar for a team building exercise at work with 12 different people (needing two pools of 6). My issue is that I end up with all letters playing all other letters and all numbers playing all other numbers, yet player A may end up playing against number 4 three different times.



Maybe what I am trying to do is not even possible, but ideally I would take these two pools and make every letter play every other letter, while also only playing each number once. I have looked this up online and fail to find anything that is much help, so any help someone may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.



Pool 1

A

B

C

D

E

F



Pool 2

1

2

3

4

5

6










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Have you considered trying to work it out for just (A, B) and (1, 2), or (A,B,C) and (1,2,3)? That might give you some insight.
    $endgroup$
    – John Hughes
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:01










  • $begingroup$
    So you're trying to make each letter play against each number only once and at the same time, play each other letter? Like can I have a letter play on the same team with a number multiple times?
    $endgroup$
    – SalmonKiller
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:08












  • $begingroup$
    I have and it is much simpler with A, B and 1, 2. That is simply A1 vs B2 (where each letter has played every other letter, as well as every number playing every other number). When I get up to 6 people though I seem to always get where E for example plays all the letter each once, but also plays against 3 three different times.
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:12


















5












$begingroup$


I have spent too long trying to figure this out and cannot seem to get it just right, so here I am asking the Math gods. This weekend I played in a volleyball tournament called "King of the Beach", where the tournament was structured with two pools of individual players. The format was in such a way that each player would play every other player in their own pool, with a player from the second pool as their teammate (ie pool A-F and pool 1-6). An example match would be the teams of A1 vs B2 or A1 vs C5.



Under this format, all letters (A-F) would play all other letters with a number (1-6) partner, and all numbers would player all other numbers with a letter partner.



I am trying to set up something similar for a team building exercise at work with 12 different people (needing two pools of 6). My issue is that I end up with all letters playing all other letters and all numbers playing all other numbers, yet player A may end up playing against number 4 three different times.



Maybe what I am trying to do is not even possible, but ideally I would take these two pools and make every letter play every other letter, while also only playing each number once. I have looked this up online and fail to find anything that is much help, so any help someone may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.



Pool 1

A

B

C

D

E

F



Pool 2

1

2

3

4

5

6










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Have you considered trying to work it out for just (A, B) and (1, 2), or (A,B,C) and (1,2,3)? That might give you some insight.
    $endgroup$
    – John Hughes
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:01










  • $begingroup$
    So you're trying to make each letter play against each number only once and at the same time, play each other letter? Like can I have a letter play on the same team with a number multiple times?
    $endgroup$
    – SalmonKiller
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:08












  • $begingroup$
    I have and it is much simpler with A, B and 1, 2. That is simply A1 vs B2 (where each letter has played every other letter, as well as every number playing every other number). When I get up to 6 people though I seem to always get where E for example plays all the letter each once, but also plays against 3 three different times.
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:12
















5












5








5


2



$begingroup$


I have spent too long trying to figure this out and cannot seem to get it just right, so here I am asking the Math gods. This weekend I played in a volleyball tournament called "King of the Beach", where the tournament was structured with two pools of individual players. The format was in such a way that each player would play every other player in their own pool, with a player from the second pool as their teammate (ie pool A-F and pool 1-6). An example match would be the teams of A1 vs B2 or A1 vs C5.



Under this format, all letters (A-F) would play all other letters with a number (1-6) partner, and all numbers would player all other numbers with a letter partner.



I am trying to set up something similar for a team building exercise at work with 12 different people (needing two pools of 6). My issue is that I end up with all letters playing all other letters and all numbers playing all other numbers, yet player A may end up playing against number 4 three different times.



Maybe what I am trying to do is not even possible, but ideally I would take these two pools and make every letter play every other letter, while also only playing each number once. I have looked this up online and fail to find anything that is much help, so any help someone may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.



Pool 1

A

B

C

D

E

F



Pool 2

1

2

3

4

5

6










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I have spent too long trying to figure this out and cannot seem to get it just right, so here I am asking the Math gods. This weekend I played in a volleyball tournament called "King of the Beach", where the tournament was structured with two pools of individual players. The format was in such a way that each player would play every other player in their own pool, with a player from the second pool as their teammate (ie pool A-F and pool 1-6). An example match would be the teams of A1 vs B2 or A1 vs C5.



Under this format, all letters (A-F) would play all other letters with a number (1-6) partner, and all numbers would player all other numbers with a letter partner.



I am trying to set up something similar for a team building exercise at work with 12 different people (needing two pools of 6). My issue is that I end up with all letters playing all other letters and all numbers playing all other numbers, yet player A may end up playing against number 4 three different times.



Maybe what I am trying to do is not even possible, but ideally I would take these two pools and make every letter play every other letter, while also only playing each number once. I have looked this up online and fail to find anything that is much help, so any help someone may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.



Pool 1

A

B

C

D

E

F



Pool 2

1

2

3

4

5

6







combinatorics recreational-mathematics combinatorial-designs






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Jan 27 '18 at 15:00









pjs36

15.8k32962




15.8k32962










asked Sep 10 '15 at 1:56









DaveDavidDavidsonDaveDavidDavidson

262




262












  • $begingroup$
    Have you considered trying to work it out for just (A, B) and (1, 2), or (A,B,C) and (1,2,3)? That might give you some insight.
    $endgroup$
    – John Hughes
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:01










  • $begingroup$
    So you're trying to make each letter play against each number only once and at the same time, play each other letter? Like can I have a letter play on the same team with a number multiple times?
    $endgroup$
    – SalmonKiller
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:08












  • $begingroup$
    I have and it is much simpler with A, B and 1, 2. That is simply A1 vs B2 (where each letter has played every other letter, as well as every number playing every other number). When I get up to 6 people though I seem to always get where E for example plays all the letter each once, but also plays against 3 three different times.
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:12




















  • $begingroup$
    Have you considered trying to work it out for just (A, B) and (1, 2), or (A,B,C) and (1,2,3)? That might give you some insight.
    $endgroup$
    – John Hughes
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:01










  • $begingroup$
    So you're trying to make each letter play against each number only once and at the same time, play each other letter? Like can I have a letter play on the same team with a number multiple times?
    $endgroup$
    – SalmonKiller
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:08












  • $begingroup$
    I have and it is much simpler with A, B and 1, 2. That is simply A1 vs B2 (where each letter has played every other letter, as well as every number playing every other number). When I get up to 6 people though I seem to always get where E for example plays all the letter each once, but also plays against 3 three different times.
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:12


















$begingroup$
Have you considered trying to work it out for just (A, B) and (1, 2), or (A,B,C) and (1,2,3)? That might give you some insight.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
Sep 10 '15 at 2:01




$begingroup$
Have you considered trying to work it out for just (A, B) and (1, 2), or (A,B,C) and (1,2,3)? That might give you some insight.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
Sep 10 '15 at 2:01












$begingroup$
So you're trying to make each letter play against each number only once and at the same time, play each other letter? Like can I have a letter play on the same team with a number multiple times?
$endgroup$
– SalmonKiller
Sep 10 '15 at 2:08






$begingroup$
So you're trying to make each letter play against each number only once and at the same time, play each other letter? Like can I have a letter play on the same team with a number multiple times?
$endgroup$
– SalmonKiller
Sep 10 '15 at 2:08














$begingroup$
I have and it is much simpler with A, B and 1, 2. That is simply A1 vs B2 (where each letter has played every other letter, as well as every number playing every other number). When I get up to 6 people though I seem to always get where E for example plays all the letter each once, but also plays against 3 three different times.
$endgroup$
– DaveDavidDavidson
Sep 10 '15 at 2:12






$begingroup$
I have and it is much simpler with A, B and 1, 2. That is simply A1 vs B2 (where each letter has played every other letter, as well as every number playing every other number). When I get up to 6 people though I seem to always get where E for example plays all the letter each once, but also plays against 3 three different times.
$endgroup$
– DaveDavidDavidson
Sep 10 '15 at 2:12












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















0












$begingroup$

Try this: Let's pair each letter to each number for the first 5 games. i.e. $$begin{matrix} A & 1 \ B&2\C&3\D&4\E&5\F&6\end{matrix}$$
Why 5? Because there are $frac{n!}{k!(n-k)!}$ unique combinations of $k$ letters, so if we have 2, we have 15 ways of combining them. Since 6/2 =3, we have that we can have 5 games where each pairing is unique. Now for the last "round", each letter hasn't played the number it was on the team with. So we just swap the numbers for each pair like this: $$begin{matrix}A&2\B&1\C&4\D&3\E&6\F&5\end{matrix}$$ with the game pairs given by the letter $(A,B), (C,D), (E,F)$.



Hope this answers this question.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Hmm, not sure I understand what is going on here. I need every letter to play every other letter, and every number to play every other number like traditional round robin play. The kicker is that they get a teammate from the other pool. I need 15 games to ensure that all numbers play all other numbers and all letters play all other letters (at least that is my thought), but is it possible to do this without having A play against any number more than once as well, just as it does only playing once vs each other letter?
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:36












  • $begingroup$
    @DaveDavidDavidson Ah. Well dump round 6 then. But you will have constant teams then and every letter will play every other letter and every number will play every other number. Try assigning the pairs manually for each round and it should become clear what I am trying to replicate here.
    $endgroup$
    – SalmonKiller
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:40










  • $begingroup$
    @DaveDavidDavidson And yes, every letter and every number will play every other letter AND number only once.
    $endgroup$
    – SalmonKiller
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:41










  • $begingroup$
    Constant teams as in A and 1 are always together? There is no constant teams here, so A1 plays B2 and then next round A2 plays C4, etc. I have literally been at this for hours and am so upside down now. I will try it again here, but i attempted with your above formula and only got 9 games in before I began seeing duplicates (not that it is an issue with you, but something I am doing most likely).
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:48










  • $begingroup$
    I guess really what I need is that every game is a unique pairing. A will play every other letter without ever playing with or against the same number, and the same is true for every other letter/number.
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:51



















0












$begingroup$

If you are plainly allowing to play every letter and number to play every other letter and number, without the obvious repetitions, we have:




  • $6$ ways of choosing the first letter,

  • $6$ ways of choosing the first number,

  • $5$ ways of choosing the second letter and

  • $5$ ways of choosing the second number.

  • And because WX vs YZ is the same than YZ vs WX, we half everything.


Hence the total combinations are:
$$frac 12 6cdot 6 cdot 5 cdot 5= 450$$



A cycling strategy would be matching the 15 rounds in the group:



GROUP 1-1:
$$
A 1\
B 2 \
C 3\
D 4\
E 5\
F 6
$$



And then rematching from the new group, cycling the numbers:



GROUP 1-2:
$$
A 2\
B 3 \
C 4\
D 5\
E 6\
F 1
$$



These way you have the groups 1-1 to 1-6, each one with 15 matches.
After those $6cdot15=90$ games played, introduce a pair swap between 1 and 2 and rematch a new set of 90 games, cycling the number as already described, for a new pack of groups:



GROUP 2-1:
$$
A 1\
B 3\
C 6\
D 2\
E 4\
F cdot
$$



The $cdot$ indicates no match must be taken from that team.



Build that sequence of numbers from this list, which alternates each possible combinations:
$$
GROUP 1-X: 123456\
GROUP 2-X: 13624cdot\
GROUP 3-X: 1425cdot 3\
GROUP 4-X: 15463cdot\
GROUP 5-X: 16532cdot
$$



The last group comes from taking sequences unlisted in the previous cycling:
$$
GROUP 6: text{sequences from }{21,26,35,41,43,51,52,64}
$$



Hence you have all your $5cdot 90=450$ matches listed.



As you see, that is a lot of fun for a single summer...






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













    Your Answer





    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
    return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
    StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
    StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
    });
    });
    }, "mathjax-editing");

    StackExchange.ready(function() {
    var channelOptions = {
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "69"
    };
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
    createEditor();
    });
    }
    else {
    createEditor();
    }
    });

    function createEditor() {
    StackExchange.prepareEditor({
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: true,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: 10,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader: {
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    },
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    });


    }
    });














    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function () {
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f1428889%2fround-robin-king-style-tournament%23new-answer', 'question_page');
    }
    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    0












    $begingroup$

    Try this: Let's pair each letter to each number for the first 5 games. i.e. $$begin{matrix} A & 1 \ B&2\C&3\D&4\E&5\F&6\end{matrix}$$
    Why 5? Because there are $frac{n!}{k!(n-k)!}$ unique combinations of $k$ letters, so if we have 2, we have 15 ways of combining them. Since 6/2 =3, we have that we can have 5 games where each pairing is unique. Now for the last "round", each letter hasn't played the number it was on the team with. So we just swap the numbers for each pair like this: $$begin{matrix}A&2\B&1\C&4\D&3\E&6\F&5\end{matrix}$$ with the game pairs given by the letter $(A,B), (C,D), (E,F)$.



    Hope this answers this question.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Hmm, not sure I understand what is going on here. I need every letter to play every other letter, and every number to play every other number like traditional round robin play. The kicker is that they get a teammate from the other pool. I need 15 games to ensure that all numbers play all other numbers and all letters play all other letters (at least that is my thought), but is it possible to do this without having A play against any number more than once as well, just as it does only playing once vs each other letter?
      $endgroup$
      – DaveDavidDavidson
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:36












    • $begingroup$
      @DaveDavidDavidson Ah. Well dump round 6 then. But you will have constant teams then and every letter will play every other letter and every number will play every other number. Try assigning the pairs manually for each round and it should become clear what I am trying to replicate here.
      $endgroup$
      – SalmonKiller
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:40










    • $begingroup$
      @DaveDavidDavidson And yes, every letter and every number will play every other letter AND number only once.
      $endgroup$
      – SalmonKiller
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:41










    • $begingroup$
      Constant teams as in A and 1 are always together? There is no constant teams here, so A1 plays B2 and then next round A2 plays C4, etc. I have literally been at this for hours and am so upside down now. I will try it again here, but i attempted with your above formula and only got 9 games in before I began seeing duplicates (not that it is an issue with you, but something I am doing most likely).
      $endgroup$
      – DaveDavidDavidson
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:48










    • $begingroup$
      I guess really what I need is that every game is a unique pairing. A will play every other letter without ever playing with or against the same number, and the same is true for every other letter/number.
      $endgroup$
      – DaveDavidDavidson
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:51
















    0












    $begingroup$

    Try this: Let's pair each letter to each number for the first 5 games. i.e. $$begin{matrix} A & 1 \ B&2\C&3\D&4\E&5\F&6\end{matrix}$$
    Why 5? Because there are $frac{n!}{k!(n-k)!}$ unique combinations of $k$ letters, so if we have 2, we have 15 ways of combining them. Since 6/2 =3, we have that we can have 5 games where each pairing is unique. Now for the last "round", each letter hasn't played the number it was on the team with. So we just swap the numbers for each pair like this: $$begin{matrix}A&2\B&1\C&4\D&3\E&6\F&5\end{matrix}$$ with the game pairs given by the letter $(A,B), (C,D), (E,F)$.



    Hope this answers this question.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Hmm, not sure I understand what is going on here. I need every letter to play every other letter, and every number to play every other number like traditional round robin play. The kicker is that they get a teammate from the other pool. I need 15 games to ensure that all numbers play all other numbers and all letters play all other letters (at least that is my thought), but is it possible to do this without having A play against any number more than once as well, just as it does only playing once vs each other letter?
      $endgroup$
      – DaveDavidDavidson
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:36












    • $begingroup$
      @DaveDavidDavidson Ah. Well dump round 6 then. But you will have constant teams then and every letter will play every other letter and every number will play every other number. Try assigning the pairs manually for each round and it should become clear what I am trying to replicate here.
      $endgroup$
      – SalmonKiller
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:40










    • $begingroup$
      @DaveDavidDavidson And yes, every letter and every number will play every other letter AND number only once.
      $endgroup$
      – SalmonKiller
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:41










    • $begingroup$
      Constant teams as in A and 1 are always together? There is no constant teams here, so A1 plays B2 and then next round A2 plays C4, etc. I have literally been at this for hours and am so upside down now. I will try it again here, but i attempted with your above formula and only got 9 games in before I began seeing duplicates (not that it is an issue with you, but something I am doing most likely).
      $endgroup$
      – DaveDavidDavidson
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:48










    • $begingroup$
      I guess really what I need is that every game is a unique pairing. A will play every other letter without ever playing with or against the same number, and the same is true for every other letter/number.
      $endgroup$
      – DaveDavidDavidson
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:51














    0












    0








    0





    $begingroup$

    Try this: Let's pair each letter to each number for the first 5 games. i.e. $$begin{matrix} A & 1 \ B&2\C&3\D&4\E&5\F&6\end{matrix}$$
    Why 5? Because there are $frac{n!}{k!(n-k)!}$ unique combinations of $k$ letters, so if we have 2, we have 15 ways of combining them. Since 6/2 =3, we have that we can have 5 games where each pairing is unique. Now for the last "round", each letter hasn't played the number it was on the team with. So we just swap the numbers for each pair like this: $$begin{matrix}A&2\B&1\C&4\D&3\E&6\F&5\end{matrix}$$ with the game pairs given by the letter $(A,B), (C,D), (E,F)$.



    Hope this answers this question.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Try this: Let's pair each letter to each number for the first 5 games. i.e. $$begin{matrix} A & 1 \ B&2\C&3\D&4\E&5\F&6\end{matrix}$$
    Why 5? Because there are $frac{n!}{k!(n-k)!}$ unique combinations of $k$ letters, so if we have 2, we have 15 ways of combining them. Since 6/2 =3, we have that we can have 5 games where each pairing is unique. Now for the last "round", each letter hasn't played the number it was on the team with. So we just swap the numbers for each pair like this: $$begin{matrix}A&2\B&1\C&4\D&3\E&6\F&5\end{matrix}$$ with the game pairs given by the letter $(A,B), (C,D), (E,F)$.



    Hope this answers this question.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Sep 10 '15 at 2:20









    SalmonKillerSalmonKiller

    1,4901025




    1,4901025












    • $begingroup$
      Hmm, not sure I understand what is going on here. I need every letter to play every other letter, and every number to play every other number like traditional round robin play. The kicker is that they get a teammate from the other pool. I need 15 games to ensure that all numbers play all other numbers and all letters play all other letters (at least that is my thought), but is it possible to do this without having A play against any number more than once as well, just as it does only playing once vs each other letter?
      $endgroup$
      – DaveDavidDavidson
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:36












    • $begingroup$
      @DaveDavidDavidson Ah. Well dump round 6 then. But you will have constant teams then and every letter will play every other letter and every number will play every other number. Try assigning the pairs manually for each round and it should become clear what I am trying to replicate here.
      $endgroup$
      – SalmonKiller
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:40










    • $begingroup$
      @DaveDavidDavidson And yes, every letter and every number will play every other letter AND number only once.
      $endgroup$
      – SalmonKiller
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:41










    • $begingroup$
      Constant teams as in A and 1 are always together? There is no constant teams here, so A1 plays B2 and then next round A2 plays C4, etc. I have literally been at this for hours and am so upside down now. I will try it again here, but i attempted with your above formula and only got 9 games in before I began seeing duplicates (not that it is an issue with you, but something I am doing most likely).
      $endgroup$
      – DaveDavidDavidson
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:48










    • $begingroup$
      I guess really what I need is that every game is a unique pairing. A will play every other letter without ever playing with or against the same number, and the same is true for every other letter/number.
      $endgroup$
      – DaveDavidDavidson
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:51


















    • $begingroup$
      Hmm, not sure I understand what is going on here. I need every letter to play every other letter, and every number to play every other number like traditional round robin play. The kicker is that they get a teammate from the other pool. I need 15 games to ensure that all numbers play all other numbers and all letters play all other letters (at least that is my thought), but is it possible to do this without having A play against any number more than once as well, just as it does only playing once vs each other letter?
      $endgroup$
      – DaveDavidDavidson
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:36












    • $begingroup$
      @DaveDavidDavidson Ah. Well dump round 6 then. But you will have constant teams then and every letter will play every other letter and every number will play every other number. Try assigning the pairs manually for each round and it should become clear what I am trying to replicate here.
      $endgroup$
      – SalmonKiller
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:40










    • $begingroup$
      @DaveDavidDavidson And yes, every letter and every number will play every other letter AND number only once.
      $endgroup$
      – SalmonKiller
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:41










    • $begingroup$
      Constant teams as in A and 1 are always together? There is no constant teams here, so A1 plays B2 and then next round A2 plays C4, etc. I have literally been at this for hours and am so upside down now. I will try it again here, but i attempted with your above formula and only got 9 games in before I began seeing duplicates (not that it is an issue with you, but something I am doing most likely).
      $endgroup$
      – DaveDavidDavidson
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:48










    • $begingroup$
      I guess really what I need is that every game is a unique pairing. A will play every other letter without ever playing with or against the same number, and the same is true for every other letter/number.
      $endgroup$
      – DaveDavidDavidson
      Sep 10 '15 at 2:51
















    $begingroup$
    Hmm, not sure I understand what is going on here. I need every letter to play every other letter, and every number to play every other number like traditional round robin play. The kicker is that they get a teammate from the other pool. I need 15 games to ensure that all numbers play all other numbers and all letters play all other letters (at least that is my thought), but is it possible to do this without having A play against any number more than once as well, just as it does only playing once vs each other letter?
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:36






    $begingroup$
    Hmm, not sure I understand what is going on here. I need every letter to play every other letter, and every number to play every other number like traditional round robin play. The kicker is that they get a teammate from the other pool. I need 15 games to ensure that all numbers play all other numbers and all letters play all other letters (at least that is my thought), but is it possible to do this without having A play against any number more than once as well, just as it does only playing once vs each other letter?
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:36














    $begingroup$
    @DaveDavidDavidson Ah. Well dump round 6 then. But you will have constant teams then and every letter will play every other letter and every number will play every other number. Try assigning the pairs manually for each round and it should become clear what I am trying to replicate here.
    $endgroup$
    – SalmonKiller
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:40




    $begingroup$
    @DaveDavidDavidson Ah. Well dump round 6 then. But you will have constant teams then and every letter will play every other letter and every number will play every other number. Try assigning the pairs manually for each round and it should become clear what I am trying to replicate here.
    $endgroup$
    – SalmonKiller
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:40












    $begingroup$
    @DaveDavidDavidson And yes, every letter and every number will play every other letter AND number only once.
    $endgroup$
    – SalmonKiller
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:41




    $begingroup$
    @DaveDavidDavidson And yes, every letter and every number will play every other letter AND number only once.
    $endgroup$
    – SalmonKiller
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:41












    $begingroup$
    Constant teams as in A and 1 are always together? There is no constant teams here, so A1 plays B2 and then next round A2 plays C4, etc. I have literally been at this for hours and am so upside down now. I will try it again here, but i attempted with your above formula and only got 9 games in before I began seeing duplicates (not that it is an issue with you, but something I am doing most likely).
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:48




    $begingroup$
    Constant teams as in A and 1 are always together? There is no constant teams here, so A1 plays B2 and then next round A2 plays C4, etc. I have literally been at this for hours and am so upside down now. I will try it again here, but i attempted with your above formula and only got 9 games in before I began seeing duplicates (not that it is an issue with you, but something I am doing most likely).
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:48












    $begingroup$
    I guess really what I need is that every game is a unique pairing. A will play every other letter without ever playing with or against the same number, and the same is true for every other letter/number.
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:51




    $begingroup$
    I guess really what I need is that every game is a unique pairing. A will play every other letter without ever playing with or against the same number, and the same is true for every other letter/number.
    $endgroup$
    – DaveDavidDavidson
    Sep 10 '15 at 2:51











    0












    $begingroup$

    If you are plainly allowing to play every letter and number to play every other letter and number, without the obvious repetitions, we have:




    • $6$ ways of choosing the first letter,

    • $6$ ways of choosing the first number,

    • $5$ ways of choosing the second letter and

    • $5$ ways of choosing the second number.

    • And because WX vs YZ is the same than YZ vs WX, we half everything.


    Hence the total combinations are:
    $$frac 12 6cdot 6 cdot 5 cdot 5= 450$$



    A cycling strategy would be matching the 15 rounds in the group:



    GROUP 1-1:
    $$
    A 1\
    B 2 \
    C 3\
    D 4\
    E 5\
    F 6
    $$



    And then rematching from the new group, cycling the numbers:



    GROUP 1-2:
    $$
    A 2\
    B 3 \
    C 4\
    D 5\
    E 6\
    F 1
    $$



    These way you have the groups 1-1 to 1-6, each one with 15 matches.
    After those $6cdot15=90$ games played, introduce a pair swap between 1 and 2 and rematch a new set of 90 games, cycling the number as already described, for a new pack of groups:



    GROUP 2-1:
    $$
    A 1\
    B 3\
    C 6\
    D 2\
    E 4\
    F cdot
    $$



    The $cdot$ indicates no match must be taken from that team.



    Build that sequence of numbers from this list, which alternates each possible combinations:
    $$
    GROUP 1-X: 123456\
    GROUP 2-X: 13624cdot\
    GROUP 3-X: 1425cdot 3\
    GROUP 4-X: 15463cdot\
    GROUP 5-X: 16532cdot
    $$



    The last group comes from taking sequences unlisted in the previous cycling:
    $$
    GROUP 6: text{sequences from }{21,26,35,41,43,51,52,64}
    $$



    Hence you have all your $5cdot 90=450$ matches listed.



    As you see, that is a lot of fun for a single summer...






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      0












      $begingroup$

      If you are plainly allowing to play every letter and number to play every other letter and number, without the obvious repetitions, we have:




      • $6$ ways of choosing the first letter,

      • $6$ ways of choosing the first number,

      • $5$ ways of choosing the second letter and

      • $5$ ways of choosing the second number.

      • And because WX vs YZ is the same than YZ vs WX, we half everything.


      Hence the total combinations are:
      $$frac 12 6cdot 6 cdot 5 cdot 5= 450$$



      A cycling strategy would be matching the 15 rounds in the group:



      GROUP 1-1:
      $$
      A 1\
      B 2 \
      C 3\
      D 4\
      E 5\
      F 6
      $$



      And then rematching from the new group, cycling the numbers:



      GROUP 1-2:
      $$
      A 2\
      B 3 \
      C 4\
      D 5\
      E 6\
      F 1
      $$



      These way you have the groups 1-1 to 1-6, each one with 15 matches.
      After those $6cdot15=90$ games played, introduce a pair swap between 1 and 2 and rematch a new set of 90 games, cycling the number as already described, for a new pack of groups:



      GROUP 2-1:
      $$
      A 1\
      B 3\
      C 6\
      D 2\
      E 4\
      F cdot
      $$



      The $cdot$ indicates no match must be taken from that team.



      Build that sequence of numbers from this list, which alternates each possible combinations:
      $$
      GROUP 1-X: 123456\
      GROUP 2-X: 13624cdot\
      GROUP 3-X: 1425cdot 3\
      GROUP 4-X: 15463cdot\
      GROUP 5-X: 16532cdot
      $$



      The last group comes from taking sequences unlisted in the previous cycling:
      $$
      GROUP 6: text{sequences from }{21,26,35,41,43,51,52,64}
      $$



      Hence you have all your $5cdot 90=450$ matches listed.



      As you see, that is a lot of fun for a single summer...






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        0












        0








        0





        $begingroup$

        If you are plainly allowing to play every letter and number to play every other letter and number, without the obvious repetitions, we have:




        • $6$ ways of choosing the first letter,

        • $6$ ways of choosing the first number,

        • $5$ ways of choosing the second letter and

        • $5$ ways of choosing the second number.

        • And because WX vs YZ is the same than YZ vs WX, we half everything.


        Hence the total combinations are:
        $$frac 12 6cdot 6 cdot 5 cdot 5= 450$$



        A cycling strategy would be matching the 15 rounds in the group:



        GROUP 1-1:
        $$
        A 1\
        B 2 \
        C 3\
        D 4\
        E 5\
        F 6
        $$



        And then rematching from the new group, cycling the numbers:



        GROUP 1-2:
        $$
        A 2\
        B 3 \
        C 4\
        D 5\
        E 6\
        F 1
        $$



        These way you have the groups 1-1 to 1-6, each one with 15 matches.
        After those $6cdot15=90$ games played, introduce a pair swap between 1 and 2 and rematch a new set of 90 games, cycling the number as already described, for a new pack of groups:



        GROUP 2-1:
        $$
        A 1\
        B 3\
        C 6\
        D 2\
        E 4\
        F cdot
        $$



        The $cdot$ indicates no match must be taken from that team.



        Build that sequence of numbers from this list, which alternates each possible combinations:
        $$
        GROUP 1-X: 123456\
        GROUP 2-X: 13624cdot\
        GROUP 3-X: 1425cdot 3\
        GROUP 4-X: 15463cdot\
        GROUP 5-X: 16532cdot
        $$



        The last group comes from taking sequences unlisted in the previous cycling:
        $$
        GROUP 6: text{sequences from }{21,26,35,41,43,51,52,64}
        $$



        Hence you have all your $5cdot 90=450$ matches listed.



        As you see, that is a lot of fun for a single summer...






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        If you are plainly allowing to play every letter and number to play every other letter and number, without the obvious repetitions, we have:




        • $6$ ways of choosing the first letter,

        • $6$ ways of choosing the first number,

        • $5$ ways of choosing the second letter and

        • $5$ ways of choosing the second number.

        • And because WX vs YZ is the same than YZ vs WX, we half everything.


        Hence the total combinations are:
        $$frac 12 6cdot 6 cdot 5 cdot 5= 450$$



        A cycling strategy would be matching the 15 rounds in the group:



        GROUP 1-1:
        $$
        A 1\
        B 2 \
        C 3\
        D 4\
        E 5\
        F 6
        $$



        And then rematching from the new group, cycling the numbers:



        GROUP 1-2:
        $$
        A 2\
        B 3 \
        C 4\
        D 5\
        E 6\
        F 1
        $$



        These way you have the groups 1-1 to 1-6, each one with 15 matches.
        After those $6cdot15=90$ games played, introduce a pair swap between 1 and 2 and rematch a new set of 90 games, cycling the number as already described, for a new pack of groups:



        GROUP 2-1:
        $$
        A 1\
        B 3\
        C 6\
        D 2\
        E 4\
        F cdot
        $$



        The $cdot$ indicates no match must be taken from that team.



        Build that sequence of numbers from this list, which alternates each possible combinations:
        $$
        GROUP 1-X: 123456\
        GROUP 2-X: 13624cdot\
        GROUP 3-X: 1425cdot 3\
        GROUP 4-X: 15463cdot\
        GROUP 5-X: 16532cdot
        $$



        The last group comes from taking sequences unlisted in the previous cycling:
        $$
        GROUP 6: text{sequences from }{21,26,35,41,43,51,52,64}
        $$



        Hence you have all your $5cdot 90=450$ matches listed.



        As you see, that is a lot of fun for a single summer...







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Jul 17 '17 at 14:28

























        answered Jul 17 '17 at 10:04









        BrethloszeBrethlosze

        2,159316




        2,159316






























            draft saved

            draft discarded




















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid



            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f1428889%2fround-robin-king-style-tournament%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Plaza Victoria

            Puebla de Zaragoza

            Musa