Did Ender ever learn that he killed those two boys?












39















I have not read all the books, and those I read, I did so long ago. I just can’t find out whether Ender ever knew he killed Stilson and/or Bonzo. On the one hand, it would play along with his guilt feelings. On the other, it would be symbolically sound that he did not know about these “steps” toward xenocide.










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    39















    I have not read all the books, and those I read, I did so long ago. I just can’t find out whether Ender ever knew he killed Stilson and/or Bonzo. On the one hand, it would play along with his guilt feelings. On the other, it would be symbolically sound that he did not know about these “steps” toward xenocide.










    share|improve this question



























      39












      39








      39


      1






      I have not read all the books, and those I read, I did so long ago. I just can’t find out whether Ender ever knew he killed Stilson and/or Bonzo. On the one hand, it would play along with his guilt feelings. On the other, it would be symbolically sound that he did not know about these “steps” toward xenocide.










      share|improve this question
















      I have not read all the books, and those I read, I did so long ago. I just can’t find out whether Ender ever knew he killed Stilson and/or Bonzo. On the one hand, it would play along with his guilt feelings. On the other, it would be symbolically sound that he did not know about these “steps” toward xenocide.







      enders-game






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      edited yesterday









      Rand al'Thor

      98.1k44465654




      98.1k44465654










      asked Mar 15 at 7:56









      yrodroyrodro

      1,91831732




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          1 Answer
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          55














          Yes. He saw videos of the fights and the aftermath.




          And there was the matter of the court martial on the crimes of Colonel Graff. Admiral Chamrajnagar tried to keep Ender from watching it, but failed -- Ender had been awarded the rank of admiral, too, and this was one of the few times he asserted the privileges the rank implied. So he watched the videos of the fights with Stilson and Bonzo, watched as the photographs of the corpses were displayed, listened as the psychologists and lawyers argued whether murder had been committed or the killing was in self-defense. Ender had his own opinion, but no one asked him, Throughout the trial, it was really Ender himself under attack. The prosecution was too clever to charge him directly, but there were attempts to make him look sick, perverted, criminally insane.



          Ender's Game - Chapter 15: Speaker for the Dead







          share|improve this answer



















          • 10





            And that of course was Peter pulling the strings.

            – Spencer
            Mar 15 at 10:01






          • 3





            I have listened to the audiobook about 5 times in the past year, and I had never heard this part. I had to go back and try to find it, the funny thing is, I missed it this time too! I had to go back again. There must have been something that triggers me to zone out around this part.

            – Dylan
            Mar 15 at 14:41











          • @Dylan Guess I was in the exact same boat

            – yrodro
            Mar 15 at 15:15






          • 12





            @yrodro Wikipedia says Chapter 15 in particular was rewritten at some point, maybe the version you read was another edition? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender%27s_Game#Revisions

            – Milo P
            Mar 15 at 15:25






          • 6





            Speaker for the Dead also makes it clear, although indirectly: after someone comments on his ability to remain calm, he makes a comment to the effect of "when someone kills two people with his bare hands before the age of twelve, he either learns self-control or he loses his humanity".

            – Mark
            Mar 15 at 19:49











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          55














          Yes. He saw videos of the fights and the aftermath.




          And there was the matter of the court martial on the crimes of Colonel Graff. Admiral Chamrajnagar tried to keep Ender from watching it, but failed -- Ender had been awarded the rank of admiral, too, and this was one of the few times he asserted the privileges the rank implied. So he watched the videos of the fights with Stilson and Bonzo, watched as the photographs of the corpses were displayed, listened as the psychologists and lawyers argued whether murder had been committed or the killing was in self-defense. Ender had his own opinion, but no one asked him, Throughout the trial, it was really Ender himself under attack. The prosecution was too clever to charge him directly, but there were attempts to make him look sick, perverted, criminally insane.



          Ender's Game - Chapter 15: Speaker for the Dead







          share|improve this answer



















          • 10





            And that of course was Peter pulling the strings.

            – Spencer
            Mar 15 at 10:01






          • 3





            I have listened to the audiobook about 5 times in the past year, and I had never heard this part. I had to go back and try to find it, the funny thing is, I missed it this time too! I had to go back again. There must have been something that triggers me to zone out around this part.

            – Dylan
            Mar 15 at 14:41











          • @Dylan Guess I was in the exact same boat

            – yrodro
            Mar 15 at 15:15






          • 12





            @yrodro Wikipedia says Chapter 15 in particular was rewritten at some point, maybe the version you read was another edition? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender%27s_Game#Revisions

            – Milo P
            Mar 15 at 15:25






          • 6





            Speaker for the Dead also makes it clear, although indirectly: after someone comments on his ability to remain calm, he makes a comment to the effect of "when someone kills two people with his bare hands before the age of twelve, he either learns self-control or he loses his humanity".

            – Mark
            Mar 15 at 19:49
















          55














          Yes. He saw videos of the fights and the aftermath.




          And there was the matter of the court martial on the crimes of Colonel Graff. Admiral Chamrajnagar tried to keep Ender from watching it, but failed -- Ender had been awarded the rank of admiral, too, and this was one of the few times he asserted the privileges the rank implied. So he watched the videos of the fights with Stilson and Bonzo, watched as the photographs of the corpses were displayed, listened as the psychologists and lawyers argued whether murder had been committed or the killing was in self-defense. Ender had his own opinion, but no one asked him, Throughout the trial, it was really Ender himself under attack. The prosecution was too clever to charge him directly, but there were attempts to make him look sick, perverted, criminally insane.



          Ender's Game - Chapter 15: Speaker for the Dead







          share|improve this answer



















          • 10





            And that of course was Peter pulling the strings.

            – Spencer
            Mar 15 at 10:01






          • 3





            I have listened to the audiobook about 5 times in the past year, and I had never heard this part. I had to go back and try to find it, the funny thing is, I missed it this time too! I had to go back again. There must have been something that triggers me to zone out around this part.

            – Dylan
            Mar 15 at 14:41











          • @Dylan Guess I was in the exact same boat

            – yrodro
            Mar 15 at 15:15






          • 12





            @yrodro Wikipedia says Chapter 15 in particular was rewritten at some point, maybe the version you read was another edition? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender%27s_Game#Revisions

            – Milo P
            Mar 15 at 15:25






          • 6





            Speaker for the Dead also makes it clear, although indirectly: after someone comments on his ability to remain calm, he makes a comment to the effect of "when someone kills two people with his bare hands before the age of twelve, he either learns self-control or he loses his humanity".

            – Mark
            Mar 15 at 19:49














          55












          55








          55







          Yes. He saw videos of the fights and the aftermath.




          And there was the matter of the court martial on the crimes of Colonel Graff. Admiral Chamrajnagar tried to keep Ender from watching it, but failed -- Ender had been awarded the rank of admiral, too, and this was one of the few times he asserted the privileges the rank implied. So he watched the videos of the fights with Stilson and Bonzo, watched as the photographs of the corpses were displayed, listened as the psychologists and lawyers argued whether murder had been committed or the killing was in self-defense. Ender had his own opinion, but no one asked him, Throughout the trial, it was really Ender himself under attack. The prosecution was too clever to charge him directly, but there were attempts to make him look sick, perverted, criminally insane.



          Ender's Game - Chapter 15: Speaker for the Dead







          share|improve this answer













          Yes. He saw videos of the fights and the aftermath.




          And there was the matter of the court martial on the crimes of Colonel Graff. Admiral Chamrajnagar tried to keep Ender from watching it, but failed -- Ender had been awarded the rank of admiral, too, and this was one of the few times he asserted the privileges the rank implied. So he watched the videos of the fights with Stilson and Bonzo, watched as the photographs of the corpses were displayed, listened as the psychologists and lawyers argued whether murder had been committed or the killing was in self-defense. Ender had his own opinion, but no one asked him, Throughout the trial, it was really Ender himself under attack. The prosecution was too clever to charge him directly, but there were attempts to make him look sick, perverted, criminally insane.



          Ender's Game - Chapter 15: Speaker for the Dead








          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Mar 15 at 8:01









          ValorumValorum

          410k11029833205




          410k11029833205








          • 10





            And that of course was Peter pulling the strings.

            – Spencer
            Mar 15 at 10:01






          • 3





            I have listened to the audiobook about 5 times in the past year, and I had never heard this part. I had to go back and try to find it, the funny thing is, I missed it this time too! I had to go back again. There must have been something that triggers me to zone out around this part.

            – Dylan
            Mar 15 at 14:41











          • @Dylan Guess I was in the exact same boat

            – yrodro
            Mar 15 at 15:15






          • 12





            @yrodro Wikipedia says Chapter 15 in particular was rewritten at some point, maybe the version you read was another edition? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender%27s_Game#Revisions

            – Milo P
            Mar 15 at 15:25






          • 6





            Speaker for the Dead also makes it clear, although indirectly: after someone comments on his ability to remain calm, he makes a comment to the effect of "when someone kills two people with his bare hands before the age of twelve, he either learns self-control or he loses his humanity".

            – Mark
            Mar 15 at 19:49














          • 10





            And that of course was Peter pulling the strings.

            – Spencer
            Mar 15 at 10:01






          • 3





            I have listened to the audiobook about 5 times in the past year, and I had never heard this part. I had to go back and try to find it, the funny thing is, I missed it this time too! I had to go back again. There must have been something that triggers me to zone out around this part.

            – Dylan
            Mar 15 at 14:41











          • @Dylan Guess I was in the exact same boat

            – yrodro
            Mar 15 at 15:15






          • 12





            @yrodro Wikipedia says Chapter 15 in particular was rewritten at some point, maybe the version you read was another edition? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender%27s_Game#Revisions

            – Milo P
            Mar 15 at 15:25






          • 6





            Speaker for the Dead also makes it clear, although indirectly: after someone comments on his ability to remain calm, he makes a comment to the effect of "when someone kills two people with his bare hands before the age of twelve, he either learns self-control or he loses his humanity".

            – Mark
            Mar 15 at 19:49








          10




          10





          And that of course was Peter pulling the strings.

          – Spencer
          Mar 15 at 10:01





          And that of course was Peter pulling the strings.

          – Spencer
          Mar 15 at 10:01




          3




          3





          I have listened to the audiobook about 5 times in the past year, and I had never heard this part. I had to go back and try to find it, the funny thing is, I missed it this time too! I had to go back again. There must have been something that triggers me to zone out around this part.

          – Dylan
          Mar 15 at 14:41





          I have listened to the audiobook about 5 times in the past year, and I had never heard this part. I had to go back and try to find it, the funny thing is, I missed it this time too! I had to go back again. There must have been something that triggers me to zone out around this part.

          – Dylan
          Mar 15 at 14:41













          @Dylan Guess I was in the exact same boat

          – yrodro
          Mar 15 at 15:15





          @Dylan Guess I was in the exact same boat

          – yrodro
          Mar 15 at 15:15




          12




          12





          @yrodro Wikipedia says Chapter 15 in particular was rewritten at some point, maybe the version you read was another edition? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender%27s_Game#Revisions

          – Milo P
          Mar 15 at 15:25





          @yrodro Wikipedia says Chapter 15 in particular was rewritten at some point, maybe the version you read was another edition? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender%27s_Game#Revisions

          – Milo P
          Mar 15 at 15:25




          6




          6





          Speaker for the Dead also makes it clear, although indirectly: after someone comments on his ability to remain calm, he makes a comment to the effect of "when someone kills two people with his bare hands before the age of twelve, he either learns self-control or he loses his humanity".

          – Mark
          Mar 15 at 19:49





          Speaker for the Dead also makes it clear, although indirectly: after someone comments on his ability to remain calm, he makes a comment to the effect of "when someone kills two people with his bare hands before the age of twelve, he either learns self-control or he loses his humanity".

          – Mark
          Mar 15 at 19:49


















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