I'm a beginner: my client won't answer simple questions I've asked to aid design, what to do?











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It's my first time designing for any one



Email sent:.




Hi [Client]! If you wouldn't mind answering a few questions I need to know so I can communicate your brand better and have a better sight as to how you want the design :)




  • What does [Company Name] reflect (what's the brands identity, why you chose [image company name evokes] etc.)


  • Who's your ideal client for shop and e-liquid (target audience/who you ant to reach)


  • Who do you see as your e-liquids direct competitors



Please will you throw together a mood board of labels and images you like to give me a better feel for whats in your head



when you have the time



Cheers! Designer hat on Chloe




Email received:




you know what i want crisp, simple, perfect & clean, easy 😊🤟🏻



Also i have decided i will let you put your name on as the designer credit!



Thanks



[Client]




I don't think he understands the design process, and it's unpaid — but I don't want to design the whole e-liquid graphic range for nothing — it's a lot of work.



How do I bring this up? how do I price? I'm a beginner/novice!

Any help appreciated.










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  • 5




    Politely point out you must have a proper briefing, to avoid any miscommunication, extra work which you must bill, and a disappointing result.
    – usr2564301
    Nov 12 at 17:15






  • 54




    As you're new to the industry and already doing free work, I strongly advise you to watch the talk "F*** you, pay me". The idea that work should be done for free seems to be peculiar to the graphic design industry. Nothing wrong with doing charity work, but many graphic designers do free work as if they're the recipient of charity, oh-so-grateful for the chance to do this free work for the "exposure." There is a lot of crucial advice in the talk; probably a good investment to watch it a few times.
    – Wildcard
    Nov 13 at 1:35








  • 8




    I read random questions on Stack Exchange to learn things ... I'm an outsider and not a graphic designer. That said, if I had hired someone to design something for me, I would expect their communications with me to also be polished. Perhaps your communications above are an example, but I wouldn't use smileys. Also, the ending is a bit off. "when you have the time" seems tacked on at the end and unnecessary, and also misses punctuation and capitalization.
    – Steve
    Nov 13 at 5:36






  • 5




    As an aside, I prefer numbers to bullets. Even in casual correspondence, it makes referencing so much clearer and easier.
    – Strawberry
    Nov 13 at 10:43






  • 6




    I'm not sure what the situation is, but I strongly advise you to avoid doing unpaid work for potential clients. If you want to get design stick time in a professional setting, volunteer your services for a charity that you love. Don't give it away to clients because you feel you're too green to charge.
    – 13ruce
    Nov 13 at 15:38















up vote
20
down vote

favorite
2












It's my first time designing for any one



Email sent:.




Hi [Client]! If you wouldn't mind answering a few questions I need to know so I can communicate your brand better and have a better sight as to how you want the design :)




  • What does [Company Name] reflect (what's the brands identity, why you chose [image company name evokes] etc.)


  • Who's your ideal client for shop and e-liquid (target audience/who you ant to reach)


  • Who do you see as your e-liquids direct competitors



Please will you throw together a mood board of labels and images you like to give me a better feel for whats in your head



when you have the time



Cheers! Designer hat on Chloe




Email received:




you know what i want crisp, simple, perfect & clean, easy 😊🤟🏻



Also i have decided i will let you put your name on as the designer credit!



Thanks



[Client]




I don't think he understands the design process, and it's unpaid — but I don't want to design the whole e-liquid graphic range for nothing — it's a lot of work.



How do I bring this up? how do I price? I'm a beginner/novice!

Any help appreciated.










share|improve this question









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Chloe butler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 5




    Politely point out you must have a proper briefing, to avoid any miscommunication, extra work which you must bill, and a disappointing result.
    – usr2564301
    Nov 12 at 17:15






  • 54




    As you're new to the industry and already doing free work, I strongly advise you to watch the talk "F*** you, pay me". The idea that work should be done for free seems to be peculiar to the graphic design industry. Nothing wrong with doing charity work, but many graphic designers do free work as if they're the recipient of charity, oh-so-grateful for the chance to do this free work for the "exposure." There is a lot of crucial advice in the talk; probably a good investment to watch it a few times.
    – Wildcard
    Nov 13 at 1:35








  • 8




    I read random questions on Stack Exchange to learn things ... I'm an outsider and not a graphic designer. That said, if I had hired someone to design something for me, I would expect their communications with me to also be polished. Perhaps your communications above are an example, but I wouldn't use smileys. Also, the ending is a bit off. "when you have the time" seems tacked on at the end and unnecessary, and also misses punctuation and capitalization.
    – Steve
    Nov 13 at 5:36






  • 5




    As an aside, I prefer numbers to bullets. Even in casual correspondence, it makes referencing so much clearer and easier.
    – Strawberry
    Nov 13 at 10:43






  • 6




    I'm not sure what the situation is, but I strongly advise you to avoid doing unpaid work for potential clients. If you want to get design stick time in a professional setting, volunteer your services for a charity that you love. Don't give it away to clients because you feel you're too green to charge.
    – 13ruce
    Nov 13 at 15:38













up vote
20
down vote

favorite
2









up vote
20
down vote

favorite
2






2





It's my first time designing for any one



Email sent:.




Hi [Client]! If you wouldn't mind answering a few questions I need to know so I can communicate your brand better and have a better sight as to how you want the design :)




  • What does [Company Name] reflect (what's the brands identity, why you chose [image company name evokes] etc.)


  • Who's your ideal client for shop and e-liquid (target audience/who you ant to reach)


  • Who do you see as your e-liquids direct competitors



Please will you throw together a mood board of labels and images you like to give me a better feel for whats in your head



when you have the time



Cheers! Designer hat on Chloe




Email received:




you know what i want crisp, simple, perfect & clean, easy 😊🤟🏻



Also i have decided i will let you put your name on as the designer credit!



Thanks



[Client]




I don't think he understands the design process, and it's unpaid — but I don't want to design the whole e-liquid graphic range for nothing — it's a lot of work.



How do I bring this up? how do I price? I'm a beginner/novice!

Any help appreciated.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Chloe butler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











It's my first time designing for any one



Email sent:.




Hi [Client]! If you wouldn't mind answering a few questions I need to know so I can communicate your brand better and have a better sight as to how you want the design :)




  • What does [Company Name] reflect (what's the brands identity, why you chose [image company name evokes] etc.)


  • Who's your ideal client for shop and e-liquid (target audience/who you ant to reach)


  • Who do you see as your e-liquids direct competitors



Please will you throw together a mood board of labels and images you like to give me a better feel for whats in your head



when you have the time



Cheers! Designer hat on Chloe




Email received:




you know what i want crisp, simple, perfect & clean, easy 😊🤟🏻



Also i have decided i will let you put your name on as the designer credit!



Thanks



[Client]




I don't think he understands the design process, and it's unpaid — but I don't want to design the whole e-liquid graphic range for nothing — it's a lot of work.



How do I bring this up? how do I price? I'm a beginner/novice!

Any help appreciated.







client-relations freelance pricing spec-work






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edited yesterday









SQB

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asked Nov 12 at 17:02









Chloe butler

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Chloe butler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 5




    Politely point out you must have a proper briefing, to avoid any miscommunication, extra work which you must bill, and a disappointing result.
    – usr2564301
    Nov 12 at 17:15






  • 54




    As you're new to the industry and already doing free work, I strongly advise you to watch the talk "F*** you, pay me". The idea that work should be done for free seems to be peculiar to the graphic design industry. Nothing wrong with doing charity work, but many graphic designers do free work as if they're the recipient of charity, oh-so-grateful for the chance to do this free work for the "exposure." There is a lot of crucial advice in the talk; probably a good investment to watch it a few times.
    – Wildcard
    Nov 13 at 1:35








  • 8




    I read random questions on Stack Exchange to learn things ... I'm an outsider and not a graphic designer. That said, if I had hired someone to design something for me, I would expect their communications with me to also be polished. Perhaps your communications above are an example, but I wouldn't use smileys. Also, the ending is a bit off. "when you have the time" seems tacked on at the end and unnecessary, and also misses punctuation and capitalization.
    – Steve
    Nov 13 at 5:36






  • 5




    As an aside, I prefer numbers to bullets. Even in casual correspondence, it makes referencing so much clearer and easier.
    – Strawberry
    Nov 13 at 10:43






  • 6




    I'm not sure what the situation is, but I strongly advise you to avoid doing unpaid work for potential clients. If you want to get design stick time in a professional setting, volunteer your services for a charity that you love. Don't give it away to clients because you feel you're too green to charge.
    – 13ruce
    Nov 13 at 15:38














  • 5




    Politely point out you must have a proper briefing, to avoid any miscommunication, extra work which you must bill, and a disappointing result.
    – usr2564301
    Nov 12 at 17:15






  • 54




    As you're new to the industry and already doing free work, I strongly advise you to watch the talk "F*** you, pay me". The idea that work should be done for free seems to be peculiar to the graphic design industry. Nothing wrong with doing charity work, but many graphic designers do free work as if they're the recipient of charity, oh-so-grateful for the chance to do this free work for the "exposure." There is a lot of crucial advice in the talk; probably a good investment to watch it a few times.
    – Wildcard
    Nov 13 at 1:35








  • 8




    I read random questions on Stack Exchange to learn things ... I'm an outsider and not a graphic designer. That said, if I had hired someone to design something for me, I would expect their communications with me to also be polished. Perhaps your communications above are an example, but I wouldn't use smileys. Also, the ending is a bit off. "when you have the time" seems tacked on at the end and unnecessary, and also misses punctuation and capitalization.
    – Steve
    Nov 13 at 5:36






  • 5




    As an aside, I prefer numbers to bullets. Even in casual correspondence, it makes referencing so much clearer and easier.
    – Strawberry
    Nov 13 at 10:43






  • 6




    I'm not sure what the situation is, but I strongly advise you to avoid doing unpaid work for potential clients. If you want to get design stick time in a professional setting, volunteer your services for a charity that you love. Don't give it away to clients because you feel you're too green to charge.
    – 13ruce
    Nov 13 at 15:38








5




5




Politely point out you must have a proper briefing, to avoid any miscommunication, extra work which you must bill, and a disappointing result.
– usr2564301
Nov 12 at 17:15




Politely point out you must have a proper briefing, to avoid any miscommunication, extra work which you must bill, and a disappointing result.
– usr2564301
Nov 12 at 17:15




54




54




As you're new to the industry and already doing free work, I strongly advise you to watch the talk "F*** you, pay me". The idea that work should be done for free seems to be peculiar to the graphic design industry. Nothing wrong with doing charity work, but many graphic designers do free work as if they're the recipient of charity, oh-so-grateful for the chance to do this free work for the "exposure." There is a lot of crucial advice in the talk; probably a good investment to watch it a few times.
– Wildcard
Nov 13 at 1:35






As you're new to the industry and already doing free work, I strongly advise you to watch the talk "F*** you, pay me". The idea that work should be done for free seems to be peculiar to the graphic design industry. Nothing wrong with doing charity work, but many graphic designers do free work as if they're the recipient of charity, oh-so-grateful for the chance to do this free work for the "exposure." There is a lot of crucial advice in the talk; probably a good investment to watch it a few times.
– Wildcard
Nov 13 at 1:35






8




8




I read random questions on Stack Exchange to learn things ... I'm an outsider and not a graphic designer. That said, if I had hired someone to design something for me, I would expect their communications with me to also be polished. Perhaps your communications above are an example, but I wouldn't use smileys. Also, the ending is a bit off. "when you have the time" seems tacked on at the end and unnecessary, and also misses punctuation and capitalization.
– Steve
Nov 13 at 5:36




I read random questions on Stack Exchange to learn things ... I'm an outsider and not a graphic designer. That said, if I had hired someone to design something for me, I would expect their communications with me to also be polished. Perhaps your communications above are an example, but I wouldn't use smileys. Also, the ending is a bit off. "when you have the time" seems tacked on at the end and unnecessary, and also misses punctuation and capitalization.
– Steve
Nov 13 at 5:36




5




5




As an aside, I prefer numbers to bullets. Even in casual correspondence, it makes referencing so much clearer and easier.
– Strawberry
Nov 13 at 10:43




As an aside, I prefer numbers to bullets. Even in casual correspondence, it makes referencing so much clearer and easier.
– Strawberry
Nov 13 at 10:43




6




6




I'm not sure what the situation is, but I strongly advise you to avoid doing unpaid work for potential clients. If you want to get design stick time in a professional setting, volunteer your services for a charity that you love. Don't give it away to clients because you feel you're too green to charge.
– 13ruce
Nov 13 at 15:38




I'm not sure what the situation is, but I strongly advise you to avoid doing unpaid work for potential clients. If you want to get design stick time in a professional setting, volunteer your services for a charity that you love. Don't give it away to clients because you feel you're too green to charge.
– 13ruce
Nov 13 at 15:38










11 Answers
11






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up vote
57
down vote















  1. Make a phone call. Do not use an e-mail for this interview.



    You can't even know if he is answering this questions or he is just mentioning some previous ideas he has.




  2. If it is unpaid... do not do it. You are not only damaging yourself but the whole industry.



    The "Oh, I'm new" is not a reason at all. Either you have practiced a lot and have become good at designing or don't do it.








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  • 1. I tried to ask these in person but he wasn't very forthcoming, so I thought email would give him better time to think
    – Chloe butler
    Nov 12 at 17:20






  • 25




    "You are not only damaging yourself but the whole industry." Dual-edged sword here. Yes, you can certainly damage yourself by working for free. People simply do not appreciate your efforts if you give them away for free. Also there is this idea that if you give it away for free, it's probably not worth much. Still, I like the idea of 'paying it forward'. So I still do it sometimes. But I have this rule. If I'm doing it for free, it has to be fun.
    – Stijn de Witt
    Nov 12 at 20:46






  • 4




    It's maybe been said enough times already, but I would like to reinforce that being a newbie is no reason to work for free. If new doctors and dentists don't work for free at first, graphic designers starting out should not have any reason to go unpaid either.
    – Joonas
    Nov 13 at 5:56






  • 1




    Minor formatting tip: Put four spaces in front of the second lines of each paragraph, and remove the space in front of the 1.. Things will line up a bit nicer.
    – Nic Hartley
    Nov 13 at 21:54






  • 1




    @Joonas At least doctors are working for free at first in a variety of internships in most countries as part of their education. That's the thing, a lot of designers are self taught and need something to take the place of the projects and internships that would normally be done as part of a traditional education in other fields.
    – David Mulder
    Nov 13 at 22:35


















up vote
36
down vote













Asking for a "mood board" is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much to ask any client. That's perhaps a designer's tool and a client should never be asked to do that work. That's what they are paying you for (or not paying as the case may be).



Rafael is correct when he posted make a phone call. Often in emails people skim and don't actually read. So things get missed, overlooked, and just forgotten about. In a phone call you can ask, if he evades, ask again. If he isn't clear, ask for clarity, etc. There's no skimming or forgetting during a phone call. It may take asking several times. It may require you explaining why you need to know. But I'd try to not end the phone call until I had answers.



Your questions are good questions to ask.



I would explain to the client.....




Hi Chris,
I can certainly create what you need but I really need these questions answered. Imagine if you hired a caterer for an event. They'd ask about food allergies, number of attendees, etc. All in an effort to do a better job. That's what my questions are for, to ensure I do a better job designing the [whatever it is].




If this is unpaid work then, frankly, I wouldn't keep "stalking" the client. I would make 2 maybe 3, phone calls and send 1 maybe 2, emails. Then explain that I can't move forward without some direction.






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  • 2




    2-3 phone calls and 1-2 emails? From the client's perspective, that seems like a lot. From the freelancer perspective, it seems like a lot of effort for free work.
    – Sinjai
    2 days ago






  • 7




    Well.. I wouldn't take on free work to begin with.
    – Scott
    2 days ago


















up vote
18
down vote













Your client doesn't know what they want, and they don't know what any of the things you ask mean.



You know the industry that the client works in, you know the name.



Throw together a few different ideas in very rough draft.



Send them to the client making very clear that these are rough sketches to get a concept not a final piece and ask them to rate each one by how much they like them and give feedback.



Iterate on the feedback.



I'm a software engineer not graphic designer but over and over again I find that if you ask someone what they want they don't know. If you present them with a few options though they will immediately know they don't want 1 or 3 but they sort of like 2 but can you add this bit from 4 and maybe X and sometimes a bit of U and then add a unicorn.






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  • Very good point about people not knowing what they want -- I've found this to be the case time and time again in software engineering and have no doubt it applies to many other fields.
    – Sinjai
    2 days ago






  • 2




    "you mean ask" --> "you ask mean"
    – jpmc26
    2 days ago






  • 1




    Getting people to actually communicate what they want is a major life skill both inside and outside the workplace.
    – Myles
    yesterday


















up vote
6
down vote













First, It's not good for you nor for the whole sector to do free works. But I understand that at first is hard to take money from someone who trusts you.



I think that the problem is the questions you are asking and how you are asking them. These questions are made almost in argot, you are using a very straightforward and professional language.



My approach would be more human. If you have the opportunity to go to the company to talk to your client. Look at how they work, how is everything organized, maybe even you will see other things you can improve such as billboards, cards or catalogs and you can suggest expanding your contract.



But if you can't go there, just call him. Talk to him as a counselor, this way you are selling your own brand. Ask him what they do (I think you've already talked about it), ask him how is the company doing (probably will tell you about problems that you can identify with design or marketing problems, even they tell you about competence) why he thought about requesting your help, what he thought about improving (you've already done this for sure) ask him if you like any company style (probably he should have pointed other company logos right now).



The part where you ask about competence in my country at least would feel gross. You have to research the market. Which companies are the best, which ones are the direct competence, what's the difference between that company and your client's company, how to make that differences matter or not. All that is your work as a designer.



Have in mind that unless you are working for a really big company that has complex inner bureaucracy and needs to control every investment, you usually won't receive all these answers in a straightforward manner.



As a designer, you won't be only designing. You will be a "friend" of that company. Most of the people would come to you without really knowing their needs, even if they act as they know. You have to act as "visual communication therapist" to hear their problems and analyze what they need.






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  • +1 for the last paragraph especially.
    – Cullub
    Nov 13 at 15:08


















up vote
1
down vote













Sometimes you have a client who doesn't know themselves what they actually want. They expect you as the designer to come up with the brand identity. In that case it can be a valid design process to just throw things at the wall and see what sticks. Give them a couple of different drafts and then ask them what they like or dislike about them.



This is of course a process where you will invest a lot of work which will end up unused. You also risk getting caught up in an endless cycle of review after review with the client never being completely satisfied. So if you decide to use this process, then the client needs to be aware that they are paying you by the hour and that you also expect to get paid for those designs they do not pick in the end.






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  • The designer did not ask simply what customer wants. She requested basic facts about brand, audience, market niche, competitors. Client failed to provide any information on that. It is a red flag - it may be not a real client at all, because real clients have no problem answering those questions even when they have not idea about design.
    – VeganHunter
    yesterday




















up vote
1
down vote













That's a nightmare waiting to happen. Dip-set. Find another client with money and an actual request.






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  • This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review
    – Danielillo
    Nov 13 at 16:17






  • 1




    @Danielillo It answers the question asked in the title.
    – Steve
    Nov 13 at 17:57






  • 1




    It really is the right answer. This has "red flag" writ in blood all over its face.
    – Dewi Morgan
    2 days ago










  • After being in same situation many many years ago, I can see how it will end. If designer gets this kind of response from the "client" - walking away is the right thing to do, ESPECIALLY for beginner designer to avoid frustration, time loss and unfair humiliation. It will undermine the beginner's confidence. Few clients who are not committed and not interested like that may even ruin your career.
    – VeganHunter
    yesterday




















up vote
0
down vote













I understand the difficulty when it comes to communicating with clients and getting the information needed to create a cohesive design. With that said, Scott and Rafael are both very correct in that a.) a phone call is always an effective means of figuring out what is in a client's head and b.) the client is never the person to be creating a mood board.



It is not entirely out of line to request if there are specific logos or designs that come to the client's mind when they consider their own form or taste for a style, but this is also not often given in design processes.



If the client cannot be reached over the phone and will not provide any more information, there is still a lot of work that can be done. If the client will not tell you what they specifically want, they can certainly tell you what they do not want judging by the designs and sketches you put forward.



The design process begins by assembling all possible aspects of the company together and sketching every idea that comes to mind. Create more solidified examples of ideas you find strongest, and allow the client to pick them apart and choose details they like and would prefer to remove. Most clients have a hard time actually saying what they really need, and what they think they need is seldom what the best possible design is for a project.



Hope this offers some clarity.






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    up vote
    0
    down vote













    You're the designer!




    • They "hired" you for ideas, so you'll need to put some in front of
      them and get a sense of what they like. Make 3 quick very different
      mood boards yourself and ask them which one they like best.

    • Write up your questions in a numbered list, with space between.
      Word them very simply.

    • Tell the client "I'll need you to answer these few questions so
      I can have the information I need to do a great job for you. Please
      type your answers right below these questions and email it back to me
      by Friday."


    You can't ask a client to do a mood board, but they may have an "ideas" folder laying around, so always ask. There are some clients who just want to hire someone good and let them run with it and they usually end up being great clients. So his behavior is not unusual.



    Why are you working for free?



    You may be starting out, but charge something - get 30 or 50 bucks out of them. Always charge money. You need to pay the light bill so you can run your computer. If they don't value your time they won't take the time to work with you properly. Give him some basic stuff for free - logo, whatever....then a price quote for anything else, maybe a bundle of ad materials for a flat rate. And then let him know your hourly rate.



    If they don't answer the questions by Friday,you tried. Move on.



    Good luck!






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      up vote
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      If you are confuse about price of your design then you can see what other people set their price for their design, this thing give you ideas what should be your design price.






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        up vote
        0
        down vote













        I came across this by chance, and I am one who could have hired a designer (not for free!). If you do this for free in order to get your "foot in the door", maybe ok - but don't do it more than once.



        Anyway, he has actually told you what he wants: "crisp, simple, perfect & clean, easy". It is not CLEAR what he wants, but that's why we hire people from the outside, to help us do stuff we can't do ourselves. Don't expect people who hire designers to know how to order stuff from them. Very often, you will probably be surprised as to how little clarity there will be in some job descriptions. I know, I have written a few such myself, and only later realized that they must have been horrible to base any actual work on. Ordering is an art form :-)



        I suggest you put in VERY LITTLE effort in a first sketch that is crisp, simple and clean (possible 2-3 variations). Then you can leave it up to him: If he wants to move forward he should pick which one to keep working on, and he should pay for the next phase of the project. If he doesn't like any of them, you are probably best off finding other projects and better clients. Good luck! Hard work often makes people stand out from the crowd, thankfully.






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          up vote
          0
          down vote













          Start with what you have, crisp, simple, perfect & clean.



          Can you use this to narrow down options for number of colors, font styles, illustration styles, etc?



          Iterate with your client by asking yes-or-no, this-or-that questions:




          Thanks for getting back to me. Based on your description, I'm thinking one or two colors (maybe red and gray based on your company name), san serif font, vector art rather than hand-drawn, ...



          Am I on the right track?



          From these two font styles, which do you prefer?



          ...



          These two [logos/websites/posters] from the [different] industry illustrate different approaches that I would consider crisp, simple, and clean:



          ...



          The first might appeal more to younger, urban demographic; the second to an older, more conservative demographic.



          Which is more in line with what you have in mind?







          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          xn. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.


















          • The things is, after a simple conversation with any client, a designer should be completely aware if the client is targeting a "younger, urban" demographic or an "older, conservative" demographic. While a decent answer, I kind of feel this would be unnecessarily bombarding any client with too many choices. That's a very slippery slope for client-based creative work.
            – Scott
            yesterday










          • As a non-designer, I tried to draw on experience getting requirements for software applications from a non-technical client. Having been the clueless client buying design work, it's always been an iterative process of either having the designer show me something and pointing out what I like and dislike about it, or having the designer show me a couple options, choosing one, and iterating. If Chloe doesn't feel she has enough info to create something to show, hopefully she can work toward gathering enough info by showing design artifacts that already exist and asking simple questions.
            – xn.
            yesterday










          • Okay. :) I think those designers made you, as the client, work far too much to do their job for them. :) It really just takes a conversation.
            – Scott
            yesterday











          Your Answer








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          11 Answers
          11






          active

          oldest

          votes








          11 Answers
          11






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          57
          down vote















          1. Make a phone call. Do not use an e-mail for this interview.



            You can't even know if he is answering this questions or he is just mentioning some previous ideas he has.




          2. If it is unpaid... do not do it. You are not only damaging yourself but the whole industry.



            The "Oh, I'm new" is not a reason at all. Either you have practiced a lot and have become good at designing or don't do it.








          share|improve this answer























          • 1. I tried to ask these in person but he wasn't very forthcoming, so I thought email would give him better time to think
            – Chloe butler
            Nov 12 at 17:20






          • 25




            "You are not only damaging yourself but the whole industry." Dual-edged sword here. Yes, you can certainly damage yourself by working for free. People simply do not appreciate your efforts if you give them away for free. Also there is this idea that if you give it away for free, it's probably not worth much. Still, I like the idea of 'paying it forward'. So I still do it sometimes. But I have this rule. If I'm doing it for free, it has to be fun.
            – Stijn de Witt
            Nov 12 at 20:46






          • 4




            It's maybe been said enough times already, but I would like to reinforce that being a newbie is no reason to work for free. If new doctors and dentists don't work for free at first, graphic designers starting out should not have any reason to go unpaid either.
            – Joonas
            Nov 13 at 5:56






          • 1




            Minor formatting tip: Put four spaces in front of the second lines of each paragraph, and remove the space in front of the 1.. Things will line up a bit nicer.
            – Nic Hartley
            Nov 13 at 21:54






          • 1




            @Joonas At least doctors are working for free at first in a variety of internships in most countries as part of their education. That's the thing, a lot of designers are self taught and need something to take the place of the projects and internships that would normally be done as part of a traditional education in other fields.
            – David Mulder
            Nov 13 at 22:35















          up vote
          57
          down vote















          1. Make a phone call. Do not use an e-mail for this interview.



            You can't even know if he is answering this questions or he is just mentioning some previous ideas he has.




          2. If it is unpaid... do not do it. You are not only damaging yourself but the whole industry.



            The "Oh, I'm new" is not a reason at all. Either you have practiced a lot and have become good at designing or don't do it.








          share|improve this answer























          • 1. I tried to ask these in person but he wasn't very forthcoming, so I thought email would give him better time to think
            – Chloe butler
            Nov 12 at 17:20






          • 25




            "You are not only damaging yourself but the whole industry." Dual-edged sword here. Yes, you can certainly damage yourself by working for free. People simply do not appreciate your efforts if you give them away for free. Also there is this idea that if you give it away for free, it's probably not worth much. Still, I like the idea of 'paying it forward'. So I still do it sometimes. But I have this rule. If I'm doing it for free, it has to be fun.
            – Stijn de Witt
            Nov 12 at 20:46






          • 4




            It's maybe been said enough times already, but I would like to reinforce that being a newbie is no reason to work for free. If new doctors and dentists don't work for free at first, graphic designers starting out should not have any reason to go unpaid either.
            – Joonas
            Nov 13 at 5:56






          • 1




            Minor formatting tip: Put four spaces in front of the second lines of each paragraph, and remove the space in front of the 1.. Things will line up a bit nicer.
            – Nic Hartley
            Nov 13 at 21:54






          • 1




            @Joonas At least doctors are working for free at first in a variety of internships in most countries as part of their education. That's the thing, a lot of designers are self taught and need something to take the place of the projects and internships that would normally be done as part of a traditional education in other fields.
            – David Mulder
            Nov 13 at 22:35













          up vote
          57
          down vote










          up vote
          57
          down vote











          1. Make a phone call. Do not use an e-mail for this interview.



            You can't even know if he is answering this questions or he is just mentioning some previous ideas he has.




          2. If it is unpaid... do not do it. You are not only damaging yourself but the whole industry.



            The "Oh, I'm new" is not a reason at all. Either you have practiced a lot and have become good at designing or don't do it.








          share|improve this answer
















          1. Make a phone call. Do not use an e-mail for this interview.



            You can't even know if he is answering this questions or he is just mentioning some previous ideas he has.




          2. If it is unpaid... do not do it. You are not only damaging yourself but the whole industry.



            The "Oh, I'm new" is not a reason at all. Either you have practiced a lot and have become good at designing or don't do it.









          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Nov 13 at 22:03

























          answered Nov 12 at 17:12









          Rafael

          22.1k12254




          22.1k12254












          • 1. I tried to ask these in person but he wasn't very forthcoming, so I thought email would give him better time to think
            – Chloe butler
            Nov 12 at 17:20






          • 25




            "You are not only damaging yourself but the whole industry." Dual-edged sword here. Yes, you can certainly damage yourself by working for free. People simply do not appreciate your efforts if you give them away for free. Also there is this idea that if you give it away for free, it's probably not worth much. Still, I like the idea of 'paying it forward'. So I still do it sometimes. But I have this rule. If I'm doing it for free, it has to be fun.
            – Stijn de Witt
            Nov 12 at 20:46






          • 4




            It's maybe been said enough times already, but I would like to reinforce that being a newbie is no reason to work for free. If new doctors and dentists don't work for free at first, graphic designers starting out should not have any reason to go unpaid either.
            – Joonas
            Nov 13 at 5:56






          • 1




            Minor formatting tip: Put four spaces in front of the second lines of each paragraph, and remove the space in front of the 1.. Things will line up a bit nicer.
            – Nic Hartley
            Nov 13 at 21:54






          • 1




            @Joonas At least doctors are working for free at first in a variety of internships in most countries as part of their education. That's the thing, a lot of designers are self taught and need something to take the place of the projects and internships that would normally be done as part of a traditional education in other fields.
            – David Mulder
            Nov 13 at 22:35


















          • 1. I tried to ask these in person but he wasn't very forthcoming, so I thought email would give him better time to think
            – Chloe butler
            Nov 12 at 17:20






          • 25




            "You are not only damaging yourself but the whole industry." Dual-edged sword here. Yes, you can certainly damage yourself by working for free. People simply do not appreciate your efforts if you give them away for free. Also there is this idea that if you give it away for free, it's probably not worth much. Still, I like the idea of 'paying it forward'. So I still do it sometimes. But I have this rule. If I'm doing it for free, it has to be fun.
            – Stijn de Witt
            Nov 12 at 20:46






          • 4




            It's maybe been said enough times already, but I would like to reinforce that being a newbie is no reason to work for free. If new doctors and dentists don't work for free at first, graphic designers starting out should not have any reason to go unpaid either.
            – Joonas
            Nov 13 at 5:56






          • 1




            Minor formatting tip: Put four spaces in front of the second lines of each paragraph, and remove the space in front of the 1.. Things will line up a bit nicer.
            – Nic Hartley
            Nov 13 at 21:54






          • 1




            @Joonas At least doctors are working for free at first in a variety of internships in most countries as part of their education. That's the thing, a lot of designers are self taught and need something to take the place of the projects and internships that would normally be done as part of a traditional education in other fields.
            – David Mulder
            Nov 13 at 22:35
















          1. I tried to ask these in person but he wasn't very forthcoming, so I thought email would give him better time to think
          – Chloe butler
          Nov 12 at 17:20




          1. I tried to ask these in person but he wasn't very forthcoming, so I thought email would give him better time to think
          – Chloe butler
          Nov 12 at 17:20




          25




          25




          "You are not only damaging yourself but the whole industry." Dual-edged sword here. Yes, you can certainly damage yourself by working for free. People simply do not appreciate your efforts if you give them away for free. Also there is this idea that if you give it away for free, it's probably not worth much. Still, I like the idea of 'paying it forward'. So I still do it sometimes. But I have this rule. If I'm doing it for free, it has to be fun.
          – Stijn de Witt
          Nov 12 at 20:46




          "You are not only damaging yourself but the whole industry." Dual-edged sword here. Yes, you can certainly damage yourself by working for free. People simply do not appreciate your efforts if you give them away for free. Also there is this idea that if you give it away for free, it's probably not worth much. Still, I like the idea of 'paying it forward'. So I still do it sometimes. But I have this rule. If I'm doing it for free, it has to be fun.
          – Stijn de Witt
          Nov 12 at 20:46




          4




          4




          It's maybe been said enough times already, but I would like to reinforce that being a newbie is no reason to work for free. If new doctors and dentists don't work for free at first, graphic designers starting out should not have any reason to go unpaid either.
          – Joonas
          Nov 13 at 5:56




          It's maybe been said enough times already, but I would like to reinforce that being a newbie is no reason to work for free. If new doctors and dentists don't work for free at first, graphic designers starting out should not have any reason to go unpaid either.
          – Joonas
          Nov 13 at 5:56




          1




          1




          Minor formatting tip: Put four spaces in front of the second lines of each paragraph, and remove the space in front of the 1.. Things will line up a bit nicer.
          – Nic Hartley
          Nov 13 at 21:54




          Minor formatting tip: Put four spaces in front of the second lines of each paragraph, and remove the space in front of the 1.. Things will line up a bit nicer.
          – Nic Hartley
          Nov 13 at 21:54




          1




          1




          @Joonas At least doctors are working for free at first in a variety of internships in most countries as part of their education. That's the thing, a lot of designers are self taught and need something to take the place of the projects and internships that would normally be done as part of a traditional education in other fields.
          – David Mulder
          Nov 13 at 22:35




          @Joonas At least doctors are working for free at first in a variety of internships in most countries as part of their education. That's the thing, a lot of designers are self taught and need something to take the place of the projects and internships that would normally be done as part of a traditional education in other fields.
          – David Mulder
          Nov 13 at 22:35










          up vote
          36
          down vote













          Asking for a "mood board" is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much to ask any client. That's perhaps a designer's tool and a client should never be asked to do that work. That's what they are paying you for (or not paying as the case may be).



          Rafael is correct when he posted make a phone call. Often in emails people skim and don't actually read. So things get missed, overlooked, and just forgotten about. In a phone call you can ask, if he evades, ask again. If he isn't clear, ask for clarity, etc. There's no skimming or forgetting during a phone call. It may take asking several times. It may require you explaining why you need to know. But I'd try to not end the phone call until I had answers.



          Your questions are good questions to ask.



          I would explain to the client.....




          Hi Chris,
          I can certainly create what you need but I really need these questions answered. Imagine if you hired a caterer for an event. They'd ask about food allergies, number of attendees, etc. All in an effort to do a better job. That's what my questions are for, to ensure I do a better job designing the [whatever it is].




          If this is unpaid work then, frankly, I wouldn't keep "stalking" the client. I would make 2 maybe 3, phone calls and send 1 maybe 2, emails. Then explain that I can't move forward without some direction.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 2




            2-3 phone calls and 1-2 emails? From the client's perspective, that seems like a lot. From the freelancer perspective, it seems like a lot of effort for free work.
            – Sinjai
            2 days ago






          • 7




            Well.. I wouldn't take on free work to begin with.
            – Scott
            2 days ago















          up vote
          36
          down vote













          Asking for a "mood board" is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much to ask any client. That's perhaps a designer's tool and a client should never be asked to do that work. That's what they are paying you for (or not paying as the case may be).



          Rafael is correct when he posted make a phone call. Often in emails people skim and don't actually read. So things get missed, overlooked, and just forgotten about. In a phone call you can ask, if he evades, ask again. If he isn't clear, ask for clarity, etc. There's no skimming or forgetting during a phone call. It may take asking several times. It may require you explaining why you need to know. But I'd try to not end the phone call until I had answers.



          Your questions are good questions to ask.



          I would explain to the client.....




          Hi Chris,
          I can certainly create what you need but I really need these questions answered. Imagine if you hired a caterer for an event. They'd ask about food allergies, number of attendees, etc. All in an effort to do a better job. That's what my questions are for, to ensure I do a better job designing the [whatever it is].




          If this is unpaid work then, frankly, I wouldn't keep "stalking" the client. I would make 2 maybe 3, phone calls and send 1 maybe 2, emails. Then explain that I can't move forward without some direction.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 2




            2-3 phone calls and 1-2 emails? From the client's perspective, that seems like a lot. From the freelancer perspective, it seems like a lot of effort for free work.
            – Sinjai
            2 days ago






          • 7




            Well.. I wouldn't take on free work to begin with.
            – Scott
            2 days ago













          up vote
          36
          down vote










          up vote
          36
          down vote









          Asking for a "mood board" is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much to ask any client. That's perhaps a designer's tool and a client should never be asked to do that work. That's what they are paying you for (or not paying as the case may be).



          Rafael is correct when he posted make a phone call. Often in emails people skim and don't actually read. So things get missed, overlooked, and just forgotten about. In a phone call you can ask, if he evades, ask again. If he isn't clear, ask for clarity, etc. There's no skimming or forgetting during a phone call. It may take asking several times. It may require you explaining why you need to know. But I'd try to not end the phone call until I had answers.



          Your questions are good questions to ask.



          I would explain to the client.....




          Hi Chris,
          I can certainly create what you need but I really need these questions answered. Imagine if you hired a caterer for an event. They'd ask about food allergies, number of attendees, etc. All in an effort to do a better job. That's what my questions are for, to ensure I do a better job designing the [whatever it is].




          If this is unpaid work then, frankly, I wouldn't keep "stalking" the client. I would make 2 maybe 3, phone calls and send 1 maybe 2, emails. Then explain that I can't move forward without some direction.






          share|improve this answer














          Asking for a "mood board" is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much to ask any client. That's perhaps a designer's tool and a client should never be asked to do that work. That's what they are paying you for (or not paying as the case may be).



          Rafael is correct when he posted make a phone call. Often in emails people skim and don't actually read. So things get missed, overlooked, and just forgotten about. In a phone call you can ask, if he evades, ask again. If he isn't clear, ask for clarity, etc. There's no skimming or forgetting during a phone call. It may take asking several times. It may require you explaining why you need to know. But I'd try to not end the phone call until I had answers.



          Your questions are good questions to ask.



          I would explain to the client.....




          Hi Chris,
          I can certainly create what you need but I really need these questions answered. Imagine if you hired a caterer for an event. They'd ask about food allergies, number of attendees, etc. All in an effort to do a better job. That's what my questions are for, to ensure I do a better job designing the [whatever it is].




          If this is unpaid work then, frankly, I wouldn't keep "stalking" the client. I would make 2 maybe 3, phone calls and send 1 maybe 2, emails. Then explain that I can't move forward without some direction.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Nov 12 at 22:32

























          answered Nov 12 at 17:32









          Scott

          142k14197403




          142k14197403








          • 2




            2-3 phone calls and 1-2 emails? From the client's perspective, that seems like a lot. From the freelancer perspective, it seems like a lot of effort for free work.
            – Sinjai
            2 days ago






          • 7




            Well.. I wouldn't take on free work to begin with.
            – Scott
            2 days ago














          • 2




            2-3 phone calls and 1-2 emails? From the client's perspective, that seems like a lot. From the freelancer perspective, it seems like a lot of effort for free work.
            – Sinjai
            2 days ago






          • 7




            Well.. I wouldn't take on free work to begin with.
            – Scott
            2 days ago








          2




          2




          2-3 phone calls and 1-2 emails? From the client's perspective, that seems like a lot. From the freelancer perspective, it seems like a lot of effort for free work.
          – Sinjai
          2 days ago




          2-3 phone calls and 1-2 emails? From the client's perspective, that seems like a lot. From the freelancer perspective, it seems like a lot of effort for free work.
          – Sinjai
          2 days ago




          7




          7




          Well.. I wouldn't take on free work to begin with.
          – Scott
          2 days ago




          Well.. I wouldn't take on free work to begin with.
          – Scott
          2 days ago










          up vote
          18
          down vote













          Your client doesn't know what they want, and they don't know what any of the things you ask mean.



          You know the industry that the client works in, you know the name.



          Throw together a few different ideas in very rough draft.



          Send them to the client making very clear that these are rough sketches to get a concept not a final piece and ask them to rate each one by how much they like them and give feedback.



          Iterate on the feedback.



          I'm a software engineer not graphic designer but over and over again I find that if you ask someone what they want they don't know. If you present them with a few options though they will immediately know they don't want 1 or 3 but they sort of like 2 but can you add this bit from 4 and maybe X and sometimes a bit of U and then add a unicorn.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Tim B is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.


















          • Very good point about people not knowing what they want -- I've found this to be the case time and time again in software engineering and have no doubt it applies to many other fields.
            – Sinjai
            2 days ago






          • 2




            "you mean ask" --> "you ask mean"
            – jpmc26
            2 days ago






          • 1




            Getting people to actually communicate what they want is a major life skill both inside and outside the workplace.
            – Myles
            yesterday















          up vote
          18
          down vote













          Your client doesn't know what they want, and they don't know what any of the things you ask mean.



          You know the industry that the client works in, you know the name.



          Throw together a few different ideas in very rough draft.



          Send them to the client making very clear that these are rough sketches to get a concept not a final piece and ask them to rate each one by how much they like them and give feedback.



          Iterate on the feedback.



          I'm a software engineer not graphic designer but over and over again I find that if you ask someone what they want they don't know. If you present them with a few options though they will immediately know they don't want 1 or 3 but they sort of like 2 but can you add this bit from 4 and maybe X and sometimes a bit of U and then add a unicorn.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Tim B is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.


















          • Very good point about people not knowing what they want -- I've found this to be the case time and time again in software engineering and have no doubt it applies to many other fields.
            – Sinjai
            2 days ago






          • 2




            "you mean ask" --> "you ask mean"
            – jpmc26
            2 days ago






          • 1




            Getting people to actually communicate what they want is a major life skill both inside and outside the workplace.
            – Myles
            yesterday













          up vote
          18
          down vote










          up vote
          18
          down vote









          Your client doesn't know what they want, and they don't know what any of the things you ask mean.



          You know the industry that the client works in, you know the name.



          Throw together a few different ideas in very rough draft.



          Send them to the client making very clear that these are rough sketches to get a concept not a final piece and ask them to rate each one by how much they like them and give feedback.



          Iterate on the feedback.



          I'm a software engineer not graphic designer but over and over again I find that if you ask someone what they want they don't know. If you present them with a few options though they will immediately know they don't want 1 or 3 but they sort of like 2 but can you add this bit from 4 and maybe X and sometimes a bit of U and then add a unicorn.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Tim B is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          Your client doesn't know what they want, and they don't know what any of the things you ask mean.



          You know the industry that the client works in, you know the name.



          Throw together a few different ideas in very rough draft.



          Send them to the client making very clear that these are rough sketches to get a concept not a final piece and ask them to rate each one by how much they like them and give feedback.



          Iterate on the feedback.



          I'm a software engineer not graphic designer but over and over again I find that if you ask someone what they want they don't know. If you present them with a few options though they will immediately know they don't want 1 or 3 but they sort of like 2 but can you add this bit from 4 and maybe X and sometimes a bit of U and then add a unicorn.







          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Tim B is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 2 days ago





















          New contributor




          Tim B is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          answered Nov 13 at 14:00









          Tim B

          2815




          2815




          New contributor




          Tim B is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





          New contributor





          Tim B is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          Tim B is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.












          • Very good point about people not knowing what they want -- I've found this to be the case time and time again in software engineering and have no doubt it applies to many other fields.
            – Sinjai
            2 days ago






          • 2




            "you mean ask" --> "you ask mean"
            – jpmc26
            2 days ago






          • 1




            Getting people to actually communicate what they want is a major life skill both inside and outside the workplace.
            – Myles
            yesterday


















          • Very good point about people not knowing what they want -- I've found this to be the case time and time again in software engineering and have no doubt it applies to many other fields.
            – Sinjai
            2 days ago






          • 2




            "you mean ask" --> "you ask mean"
            – jpmc26
            2 days ago






          • 1




            Getting people to actually communicate what they want is a major life skill both inside and outside the workplace.
            – Myles
            yesterday
















          Very good point about people not knowing what they want -- I've found this to be the case time and time again in software engineering and have no doubt it applies to many other fields.
          – Sinjai
          2 days ago




          Very good point about people not knowing what they want -- I've found this to be the case time and time again in software engineering and have no doubt it applies to many other fields.
          – Sinjai
          2 days ago




          2




          2




          "you mean ask" --> "you ask mean"
          – jpmc26
          2 days ago




          "you mean ask" --> "you ask mean"
          – jpmc26
          2 days ago




          1




          1




          Getting people to actually communicate what they want is a major life skill both inside and outside the workplace.
          – Myles
          yesterday




          Getting people to actually communicate what they want is a major life skill both inside and outside the workplace.
          – Myles
          yesterday










          up vote
          6
          down vote













          First, It's not good for you nor for the whole sector to do free works. But I understand that at first is hard to take money from someone who trusts you.



          I think that the problem is the questions you are asking and how you are asking them. These questions are made almost in argot, you are using a very straightforward and professional language.



          My approach would be more human. If you have the opportunity to go to the company to talk to your client. Look at how they work, how is everything organized, maybe even you will see other things you can improve such as billboards, cards or catalogs and you can suggest expanding your contract.



          But if you can't go there, just call him. Talk to him as a counselor, this way you are selling your own brand. Ask him what they do (I think you've already talked about it), ask him how is the company doing (probably will tell you about problems that you can identify with design or marketing problems, even they tell you about competence) why he thought about requesting your help, what he thought about improving (you've already done this for sure) ask him if you like any company style (probably he should have pointed other company logos right now).



          The part where you ask about competence in my country at least would feel gross. You have to research the market. Which companies are the best, which ones are the direct competence, what's the difference between that company and your client's company, how to make that differences matter or not. All that is your work as a designer.



          Have in mind that unless you are working for a really big company that has complex inner bureaucracy and needs to control every investment, you usually won't receive all these answers in a straightforward manner.



          As a designer, you won't be only designing. You will be a "friend" of that company. Most of the people would come to you without really knowing their needs, even if they act as they know. You have to act as "visual communication therapist" to hear their problems and analyze what they need.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          umbium is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.


















          • +1 for the last paragraph especially.
            – Cullub
            Nov 13 at 15:08















          up vote
          6
          down vote













          First, It's not good for you nor for the whole sector to do free works. But I understand that at first is hard to take money from someone who trusts you.



          I think that the problem is the questions you are asking and how you are asking them. These questions are made almost in argot, you are using a very straightforward and professional language.



          My approach would be more human. If you have the opportunity to go to the company to talk to your client. Look at how they work, how is everything organized, maybe even you will see other things you can improve such as billboards, cards or catalogs and you can suggest expanding your contract.



          But if you can't go there, just call him. Talk to him as a counselor, this way you are selling your own brand. Ask him what they do (I think you've already talked about it), ask him how is the company doing (probably will tell you about problems that you can identify with design or marketing problems, even they tell you about competence) why he thought about requesting your help, what he thought about improving (you've already done this for sure) ask him if you like any company style (probably he should have pointed other company logos right now).



          The part where you ask about competence in my country at least would feel gross. You have to research the market. Which companies are the best, which ones are the direct competence, what's the difference between that company and your client's company, how to make that differences matter or not. All that is your work as a designer.



          Have in mind that unless you are working for a really big company that has complex inner bureaucracy and needs to control every investment, you usually won't receive all these answers in a straightforward manner.



          As a designer, you won't be only designing. You will be a "friend" of that company. Most of the people would come to you without really knowing their needs, even if they act as they know. You have to act as "visual communication therapist" to hear their problems and analyze what they need.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          umbium is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.


















          • +1 for the last paragraph especially.
            – Cullub
            Nov 13 at 15:08













          up vote
          6
          down vote










          up vote
          6
          down vote









          First, It's not good for you nor for the whole sector to do free works. But I understand that at first is hard to take money from someone who trusts you.



          I think that the problem is the questions you are asking and how you are asking them. These questions are made almost in argot, you are using a very straightforward and professional language.



          My approach would be more human. If you have the opportunity to go to the company to talk to your client. Look at how they work, how is everything organized, maybe even you will see other things you can improve such as billboards, cards or catalogs and you can suggest expanding your contract.



          But if you can't go there, just call him. Talk to him as a counselor, this way you are selling your own brand. Ask him what they do (I think you've already talked about it), ask him how is the company doing (probably will tell you about problems that you can identify with design or marketing problems, even they tell you about competence) why he thought about requesting your help, what he thought about improving (you've already done this for sure) ask him if you like any company style (probably he should have pointed other company logos right now).



          The part where you ask about competence in my country at least would feel gross. You have to research the market. Which companies are the best, which ones are the direct competence, what's the difference between that company and your client's company, how to make that differences matter or not. All that is your work as a designer.



          Have in mind that unless you are working for a really big company that has complex inner bureaucracy and needs to control every investment, you usually won't receive all these answers in a straightforward manner.



          As a designer, you won't be only designing. You will be a "friend" of that company. Most of the people would come to you without really knowing their needs, even if they act as they know. You have to act as "visual communication therapist" to hear their problems and analyze what they need.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          umbium is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          First, It's not good for you nor for the whole sector to do free works. But I understand that at first is hard to take money from someone who trusts you.



          I think that the problem is the questions you are asking and how you are asking them. These questions are made almost in argot, you are using a very straightforward and professional language.



          My approach would be more human. If you have the opportunity to go to the company to talk to your client. Look at how they work, how is everything organized, maybe even you will see other things you can improve such as billboards, cards or catalogs and you can suggest expanding your contract.



          But if you can't go there, just call him. Talk to him as a counselor, this way you are selling your own brand. Ask him what they do (I think you've already talked about it), ask him how is the company doing (probably will tell you about problems that you can identify with design or marketing problems, even they tell you about competence) why he thought about requesting your help, what he thought about improving (you've already done this for sure) ask him if you like any company style (probably he should have pointed other company logos right now).



          The part where you ask about competence in my country at least would feel gross. You have to research the market. Which companies are the best, which ones are the direct competence, what's the difference between that company and your client's company, how to make that differences matter or not. All that is your work as a designer.



          Have in mind that unless you are working for a really big company that has complex inner bureaucracy and needs to control every investment, you usually won't receive all these answers in a straightforward manner.



          As a designer, you won't be only designing. You will be a "friend" of that company. Most of the people would come to you without really knowing their needs, even if they act as they know. You have to act as "visual communication therapist" to hear their problems and analyze what they need.







          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          umbium is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Nov 13 at 16:17









          Ovaryraptor

          4,23311028




          4,23311028






          New contributor




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          answered Nov 13 at 9:08









          umbium

          611




          611




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          New contributor





          umbium is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          umbium is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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          • +1 for the last paragraph especially.
            – Cullub
            Nov 13 at 15:08


















          • +1 for the last paragraph especially.
            – Cullub
            Nov 13 at 15:08
















          +1 for the last paragraph especially.
          – Cullub
          Nov 13 at 15:08




          +1 for the last paragraph especially.
          – Cullub
          Nov 13 at 15:08










          up vote
          1
          down vote













          Sometimes you have a client who doesn't know themselves what they actually want. They expect you as the designer to come up with the brand identity. In that case it can be a valid design process to just throw things at the wall and see what sticks. Give them a couple of different drafts and then ask them what they like or dislike about them.



          This is of course a process where you will invest a lot of work which will end up unused. You also risk getting caught up in an endless cycle of review after review with the client never being completely satisfied. So if you decide to use this process, then the client needs to be aware that they are paying you by the hour and that you also expect to get paid for those designs they do not pick in the end.






          share|improve this answer





















          • The designer did not ask simply what customer wants. She requested basic facts about brand, audience, market niche, competitors. Client failed to provide any information on that. It is a red flag - it may be not a real client at all, because real clients have no problem answering those questions even when they have not idea about design.
            – VeganHunter
            yesterday

















          up vote
          1
          down vote













          Sometimes you have a client who doesn't know themselves what they actually want. They expect you as the designer to come up with the brand identity. In that case it can be a valid design process to just throw things at the wall and see what sticks. Give them a couple of different drafts and then ask them what they like or dislike about them.



          This is of course a process where you will invest a lot of work which will end up unused. You also risk getting caught up in an endless cycle of review after review with the client never being completely satisfied. So if you decide to use this process, then the client needs to be aware that they are paying you by the hour and that you also expect to get paid for those designs they do not pick in the end.






          share|improve this answer





















          • The designer did not ask simply what customer wants. She requested basic facts about brand, audience, market niche, competitors. Client failed to provide any information on that. It is a red flag - it may be not a real client at all, because real clients have no problem answering those questions even when they have not idea about design.
            – VeganHunter
            yesterday















          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          Sometimes you have a client who doesn't know themselves what they actually want. They expect you as the designer to come up with the brand identity. In that case it can be a valid design process to just throw things at the wall and see what sticks. Give them a couple of different drafts and then ask them what they like or dislike about them.



          This is of course a process where you will invest a lot of work which will end up unused. You also risk getting caught up in an endless cycle of review after review with the client never being completely satisfied. So if you decide to use this process, then the client needs to be aware that they are paying you by the hour and that you also expect to get paid for those designs they do not pick in the end.






          share|improve this answer












          Sometimes you have a client who doesn't know themselves what they actually want. They expect you as the designer to come up with the brand identity. In that case it can be a valid design process to just throw things at the wall and see what sticks. Give them a couple of different drafts and then ask them what they like or dislike about them.



          This is of course a process where you will invest a lot of work which will end up unused. You also risk getting caught up in an endless cycle of review after review with the client never being completely satisfied. So if you decide to use this process, then the client needs to be aware that they are paying you by the hour and that you also expect to get paid for those designs they do not pick in the end.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Nov 13 at 10:45









          Philipp

          20916




          20916












          • The designer did not ask simply what customer wants. She requested basic facts about brand, audience, market niche, competitors. Client failed to provide any information on that. It is a red flag - it may be not a real client at all, because real clients have no problem answering those questions even when they have not idea about design.
            – VeganHunter
            yesterday




















          • The designer did not ask simply what customer wants. She requested basic facts about brand, audience, market niche, competitors. Client failed to provide any information on that. It is a red flag - it may be not a real client at all, because real clients have no problem answering those questions even when they have not idea about design.
            – VeganHunter
            yesterday


















          The designer did not ask simply what customer wants. She requested basic facts about brand, audience, market niche, competitors. Client failed to provide any information on that. It is a red flag - it may be not a real client at all, because real clients have no problem answering those questions even when they have not idea about design.
          – VeganHunter
          yesterday






          The designer did not ask simply what customer wants. She requested basic facts about brand, audience, market niche, competitors. Client failed to provide any information on that. It is a red flag - it may be not a real client at all, because real clients have no problem answering those questions even when they have not idea about design.
          – VeganHunter
          yesterday












          up vote
          1
          down vote













          That's a nightmare waiting to happen. Dip-set. Find another client with money and an actual request.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Steve is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.


















          • This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review
            – Danielillo
            Nov 13 at 16:17






          • 1




            @Danielillo It answers the question asked in the title.
            – Steve
            Nov 13 at 17:57






          • 1




            It really is the right answer. This has "red flag" writ in blood all over its face.
            – Dewi Morgan
            2 days ago










          • After being in same situation many many years ago, I can see how it will end. If designer gets this kind of response from the "client" - walking away is the right thing to do, ESPECIALLY for beginner designer to avoid frustration, time loss and unfair humiliation. It will undermine the beginner's confidence. Few clients who are not committed and not interested like that may even ruin your career.
            – VeganHunter
            yesterday

















          up vote
          1
          down vote













          That's a nightmare waiting to happen. Dip-set. Find another client with money and an actual request.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Steve is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.


















          • This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review
            – Danielillo
            Nov 13 at 16:17






          • 1




            @Danielillo It answers the question asked in the title.
            – Steve
            Nov 13 at 17:57






          • 1




            It really is the right answer. This has "red flag" writ in blood all over its face.
            – Dewi Morgan
            2 days ago










          • After being in same situation many many years ago, I can see how it will end. If designer gets this kind of response from the "client" - walking away is the right thing to do, ESPECIALLY for beginner designer to avoid frustration, time loss and unfair humiliation. It will undermine the beginner's confidence. Few clients who are not committed and not interested like that may even ruin your career.
            – VeganHunter
            yesterday















          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          That's a nightmare waiting to happen. Dip-set. Find another client with money and an actual request.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Steve is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          That's a nightmare waiting to happen. Dip-set. Find another client with money and an actual request.







          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Steve is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer






          New contributor




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          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          answered Nov 13 at 14:55









          Steve

          1272




          1272




          New contributor




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          New contributor





          Steve is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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          • This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review
            – Danielillo
            Nov 13 at 16:17






          • 1




            @Danielillo It answers the question asked in the title.
            – Steve
            Nov 13 at 17:57






          • 1




            It really is the right answer. This has "red flag" writ in blood all over its face.
            – Dewi Morgan
            2 days ago










          • After being in same situation many many years ago, I can see how it will end. If designer gets this kind of response from the "client" - walking away is the right thing to do, ESPECIALLY for beginner designer to avoid frustration, time loss and unfair humiliation. It will undermine the beginner's confidence. Few clients who are not committed and not interested like that may even ruin your career.
            – VeganHunter
            yesterday




















          • This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review
            – Danielillo
            Nov 13 at 16:17






          • 1




            @Danielillo It answers the question asked in the title.
            – Steve
            Nov 13 at 17:57






          • 1




            It really is the right answer. This has "red flag" writ in blood all over its face.
            – Dewi Morgan
            2 days ago










          • After being in same situation many many years ago, I can see how it will end. If designer gets this kind of response from the "client" - walking away is the right thing to do, ESPECIALLY for beginner designer to avoid frustration, time loss and unfair humiliation. It will undermine the beginner's confidence. Few clients who are not committed and not interested like that may even ruin your career.
            – VeganHunter
            yesterday


















          This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review
          – Danielillo
          Nov 13 at 16:17




          This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review
          – Danielillo
          Nov 13 at 16:17




          1




          1




          @Danielillo It answers the question asked in the title.
          – Steve
          Nov 13 at 17:57




          @Danielillo It answers the question asked in the title.
          – Steve
          Nov 13 at 17:57




          1




          1




          It really is the right answer. This has "red flag" writ in blood all over its face.
          – Dewi Morgan
          2 days ago




          It really is the right answer. This has "red flag" writ in blood all over its face.
          – Dewi Morgan
          2 days ago












          After being in same situation many many years ago, I can see how it will end. If designer gets this kind of response from the "client" - walking away is the right thing to do, ESPECIALLY for beginner designer to avoid frustration, time loss and unfair humiliation. It will undermine the beginner's confidence. Few clients who are not committed and not interested like that may even ruin your career.
          – VeganHunter
          yesterday






          After being in same situation many many years ago, I can see how it will end. If designer gets this kind of response from the "client" - walking away is the right thing to do, ESPECIALLY for beginner designer to avoid frustration, time loss and unfair humiliation. It will undermine the beginner's confidence. Few clients who are not committed and not interested like that may even ruin your career.
          – VeganHunter
          yesterday












          up vote
          0
          down vote













          I understand the difficulty when it comes to communicating with clients and getting the information needed to create a cohesive design. With that said, Scott and Rafael are both very correct in that a.) a phone call is always an effective means of figuring out what is in a client's head and b.) the client is never the person to be creating a mood board.



          It is not entirely out of line to request if there are specific logos or designs that come to the client's mind when they consider their own form or taste for a style, but this is also not often given in design processes.



          If the client cannot be reached over the phone and will not provide any more information, there is still a lot of work that can be done. If the client will not tell you what they specifically want, they can certainly tell you what they do not want judging by the designs and sketches you put forward.



          The design process begins by assembling all possible aspects of the company together and sketching every idea that comes to mind. Create more solidified examples of ideas you find strongest, and allow the client to pick them apart and choose details they like and would prefer to remove. Most clients have a hard time actually saying what they really need, and what they think they need is seldom what the best possible design is for a project.



          Hope this offers some clarity.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Reine is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






















            up vote
            0
            down vote













            I understand the difficulty when it comes to communicating with clients and getting the information needed to create a cohesive design. With that said, Scott and Rafael are both very correct in that a.) a phone call is always an effective means of figuring out what is in a client's head and b.) the client is never the person to be creating a mood board.



            It is not entirely out of line to request if there are specific logos or designs that come to the client's mind when they consider their own form or taste for a style, but this is also not often given in design processes.



            If the client cannot be reached over the phone and will not provide any more information, there is still a lot of work that can be done. If the client will not tell you what they specifically want, they can certainly tell you what they do not want judging by the designs and sketches you put forward.



            The design process begins by assembling all possible aspects of the company together and sketching every idea that comes to mind. Create more solidified examples of ideas you find strongest, and allow the client to pick them apart and choose details they like and would prefer to remove. Most clients have a hard time actually saying what they really need, and what they think they need is seldom what the best possible design is for a project.



            Hope this offers some clarity.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Reine is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.




















              up vote
              0
              down vote










              up vote
              0
              down vote









              I understand the difficulty when it comes to communicating with clients and getting the information needed to create a cohesive design. With that said, Scott and Rafael are both very correct in that a.) a phone call is always an effective means of figuring out what is in a client's head and b.) the client is never the person to be creating a mood board.



              It is not entirely out of line to request if there are specific logos or designs that come to the client's mind when they consider their own form or taste for a style, but this is also not often given in design processes.



              If the client cannot be reached over the phone and will not provide any more information, there is still a lot of work that can be done. If the client will not tell you what they specifically want, they can certainly tell you what they do not want judging by the designs and sketches you put forward.



              The design process begins by assembling all possible aspects of the company together and sketching every idea that comes to mind. Create more solidified examples of ideas you find strongest, and allow the client to pick them apart and choose details they like and would prefer to remove. Most clients have a hard time actually saying what they really need, and what they think they need is seldom what the best possible design is for a project.



              Hope this offers some clarity.






              share|improve this answer








              New contributor




              Reine is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.









              I understand the difficulty when it comes to communicating with clients and getting the information needed to create a cohesive design. With that said, Scott and Rafael are both very correct in that a.) a phone call is always an effective means of figuring out what is in a client's head and b.) the client is never the person to be creating a mood board.



              It is not entirely out of line to request if there are specific logos or designs that come to the client's mind when they consider their own form or taste for a style, but this is also not often given in design processes.



              If the client cannot be reached over the phone and will not provide any more information, there is still a lot of work that can be done. If the client will not tell you what they specifically want, they can certainly tell you what they do not want judging by the designs and sketches you put forward.



              The design process begins by assembling all possible aspects of the company together and sketching every idea that comes to mind. Create more solidified examples of ideas you find strongest, and allow the client to pick them apart and choose details they like and would prefer to remove. Most clients have a hard time actually saying what they really need, and what they think they need is seldom what the best possible design is for a project.



              Hope this offers some clarity.







              share|improve this answer








              New contributor




              Reine is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.









              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer






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              answered Nov 12 at 18:30









              Reine

              111




              111




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              New contributor





              Reine is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote













                  You're the designer!




                  • They "hired" you for ideas, so you'll need to put some in front of
                    them and get a sense of what they like. Make 3 quick very different
                    mood boards yourself and ask them which one they like best.

                  • Write up your questions in a numbered list, with space between.
                    Word them very simply.

                  • Tell the client "I'll need you to answer these few questions so
                    I can have the information I need to do a great job for you. Please
                    type your answers right below these questions and email it back to me
                    by Friday."


                  You can't ask a client to do a mood board, but they may have an "ideas" folder laying around, so always ask. There are some clients who just want to hire someone good and let them run with it and they usually end up being great clients. So his behavior is not unusual.



                  Why are you working for free?



                  You may be starting out, but charge something - get 30 or 50 bucks out of them. Always charge money. You need to pay the light bill so you can run your computer. If they don't value your time they won't take the time to work with you properly. Give him some basic stuff for free - logo, whatever....then a price quote for anything else, maybe a bundle of ad materials for a flat rate. And then let him know your hourly rate.



                  If they don't answer the questions by Friday,you tried. Move on.



                  Good luck!






                  share|improve this answer










                  New contributor




                  Kerry Ann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                    up vote
                    0
                    down vote













                    You're the designer!




                    • They "hired" you for ideas, so you'll need to put some in front of
                      them and get a sense of what they like. Make 3 quick very different
                      mood boards yourself and ask them which one they like best.

                    • Write up your questions in a numbered list, with space between.
                      Word them very simply.

                    • Tell the client "I'll need you to answer these few questions so
                      I can have the information I need to do a great job for you. Please
                      type your answers right below these questions and email it back to me
                      by Friday."


                    You can't ask a client to do a mood board, but they may have an "ideas" folder laying around, so always ask. There are some clients who just want to hire someone good and let them run with it and they usually end up being great clients. So his behavior is not unusual.



                    Why are you working for free?



                    You may be starting out, but charge something - get 30 or 50 bucks out of them. Always charge money. You need to pay the light bill so you can run your computer. If they don't value your time they won't take the time to work with you properly. Give him some basic stuff for free - logo, whatever....then a price quote for anything else, maybe a bundle of ad materials for a flat rate. And then let him know your hourly rate.



                    If they don't answer the questions by Friday,you tried. Move on.



                    Good luck!






                    share|improve this answer










                    New contributor




                    Kerry Ann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                    Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote









                      You're the designer!




                      • They "hired" you for ideas, so you'll need to put some in front of
                        them and get a sense of what they like. Make 3 quick very different
                        mood boards yourself and ask them which one they like best.

                      • Write up your questions in a numbered list, with space between.
                        Word them very simply.

                      • Tell the client "I'll need you to answer these few questions so
                        I can have the information I need to do a great job for you. Please
                        type your answers right below these questions and email it back to me
                        by Friday."


                      You can't ask a client to do a mood board, but they may have an "ideas" folder laying around, so always ask. There are some clients who just want to hire someone good and let them run with it and they usually end up being great clients. So his behavior is not unusual.



                      Why are you working for free?



                      You may be starting out, but charge something - get 30 or 50 bucks out of them. Always charge money. You need to pay the light bill so you can run your computer. If they don't value your time they won't take the time to work with you properly. Give him some basic stuff for free - logo, whatever....then a price quote for anything else, maybe a bundle of ad materials for a flat rate. And then let him know your hourly rate.



                      If they don't answer the questions by Friday,you tried. Move on.



                      Good luck!






                      share|improve this answer










                      New contributor




                      Kerry Ann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      You're the designer!




                      • They "hired" you for ideas, so you'll need to put some in front of
                        them and get a sense of what they like. Make 3 quick very different
                        mood boards yourself and ask them which one they like best.

                      • Write up your questions in a numbered list, with space between.
                        Word them very simply.

                      • Tell the client "I'll need you to answer these few questions so
                        I can have the information I need to do a great job for you. Please
                        type your answers right below these questions and email it back to me
                        by Friday."


                      You can't ask a client to do a mood board, but they may have an "ideas" folder laying around, so always ask. There are some clients who just want to hire someone good and let them run with it and they usually end up being great clients. So his behavior is not unusual.



                      Why are you working for free?



                      You may be starting out, but charge something - get 30 or 50 bucks out of them. Always charge money. You need to pay the light bill so you can run your computer. If they don't value your time they won't take the time to work with you properly. Give him some basic stuff for free - logo, whatever....then a price quote for anything else, maybe a bundle of ad materials for a flat rate. And then let him know your hourly rate.



                      If they don't answer the questions by Friday,you tried. Move on.



                      Good luck!







                      share|improve this answer










                      New contributor




                      Kerry Ann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited Nov 14 at 7:42









                      Danielillo

                      17.8k12665




                      17.8k12665






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                      answered Nov 13 at 19:49









                      Kerry Ann

                      1




                      1




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                      New contributor





                      Kerry Ann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                      Kerry Ann is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






















                          up vote
                          0
                          down vote













                          If you are confuse about price of your design then you can see what other people set their price for their design, this thing give you ideas what should be your design price.






                          share|improve this answer








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                            up vote
                            0
                            down vote













                            If you are confuse about price of your design then you can see what other people set their price for their design, this thing give you ideas what should be your design price.






                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor




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                            Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                              up vote
                              0
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              0
                              down vote









                              If you are confuse about price of your design then you can see what other people set their price for their design, this thing give you ideas what should be your design price.






                              share|improve this answer








                              New contributor




                              Vincent007 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              If you are confuse about price of your design then you can see what other people set their price for their design, this thing give you ideas what should be your design price.







                              share|improve this answer








                              New contributor




                              Vincent007 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer






                              New contributor




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                              answered Nov 14 at 8:33









                              Vincent007

                              1




                              1




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                              New contributor





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                                  up vote
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                                  down vote













                                  I came across this by chance, and I am one who could have hired a designer (not for free!). If you do this for free in order to get your "foot in the door", maybe ok - but don't do it more than once.



                                  Anyway, he has actually told you what he wants: "crisp, simple, perfect & clean, easy". It is not CLEAR what he wants, but that's why we hire people from the outside, to help us do stuff we can't do ourselves. Don't expect people who hire designers to know how to order stuff from them. Very often, you will probably be surprised as to how little clarity there will be in some job descriptions. I know, I have written a few such myself, and only later realized that they must have been horrible to base any actual work on. Ordering is an art form :-)



                                  I suggest you put in VERY LITTLE effort in a first sketch that is crisp, simple and clean (possible 2-3 variations). Then you can leave it up to him: If he wants to move forward he should pick which one to keep working on, and he should pay for the next phase of the project. If he doesn't like any of them, you are probably best off finding other projects and better clients. Good luck! Hard work often makes people stand out from the crowd, thankfully.






                                  share|improve this answer








                                  New contributor




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                                    up vote
                                    0
                                    down vote













                                    I came across this by chance, and I am one who could have hired a designer (not for free!). If you do this for free in order to get your "foot in the door", maybe ok - but don't do it more than once.



                                    Anyway, he has actually told you what he wants: "crisp, simple, perfect & clean, easy". It is not CLEAR what he wants, but that's why we hire people from the outside, to help us do stuff we can't do ourselves. Don't expect people who hire designers to know how to order stuff from them. Very often, you will probably be surprised as to how little clarity there will be in some job descriptions. I know, I have written a few such myself, and only later realized that they must have been horrible to base any actual work on. Ordering is an art form :-)



                                    I suggest you put in VERY LITTLE effort in a first sketch that is crisp, simple and clean (possible 2-3 variations). Then you can leave it up to him: If he wants to move forward he should pick which one to keep working on, and he should pay for the next phase of the project. If he doesn't like any of them, you are probably best off finding other projects and better clients. Good luck! Hard work often makes people stand out from the crowd, thankfully.






                                    share|improve this answer








                                    New contributor




                                    Ole Petter Pedersen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                      up vote
                                      0
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      0
                                      down vote









                                      I came across this by chance, and I am one who could have hired a designer (not for free!). If you do this for free in order to get your "foot in the door", maybe ok - but don't do it more than once.



                                      Anyway, he has actually told you what he wants: "crisp, simple, perfect & clean, easy". It is not CLEAR what he wants, but that's why we hire people from the outside, to help us do stuff we can't do ourselves. Don't expect people who hire designers to know how to order stuff from them. Very often, you will probably be surprised as to how little clarity there will be in some job descriptions. I know, I have written a few such myself, and only later realized that they must have been horrible to base any actual work on. Ordering is an art form :-)



                                      I suggest you put in VERY LITTLE effort in a first sketch that is crisp, simple and clean (possible 2-3 variations). Then you can leave it up to him: If he wants to move forward he should pick which one to keep working on, and he should pay for the next phase of the project. If he doesn't like any of them, you are probably best off finding other projects and better clients. Good luck! Hard work often makes people stand out from the crowd, thankfully.






                                      share|improve this answer








                                      New contributor




                                      Ole Petter Pedersen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                      I came across this by chance, and I am one who could have hired a designer (not for free!). If you do this for free in order to get your "foot in the door", maybe ok - but don't do it more than once.



                                      Anyway, he has actually told you what he wants: "crisp, simple, perfect & clean, easy". It is not CLEAR what he wants, but that's why we hire people from the outside, to help us do stuff we can't do ourselves. Don't expect people who hire designers to know how to order stuff from them. Very often, you will probably be surprised as to how little clarity there will be in some job descriptions. I know, I have written a few such myself, and only later realized that they must have been horrible to base any actual work on. Ordering is an art form :-)



                                      I suggest you put in VERY LITTLE effort in a first sketch that is crisp, simple and clean (possible 2-3 variations). Then you can leave it up to him: If he wants to move forward he should pick which one to keep working on, and he should pay for the next phase of the project. If he doesn't like any of them, you are probably best off finding other projects and better clients. Good luck! Hard work often makes people stand out from the crowd, thankfully.







                                      share|improve this answer








                                      New contributor




                                      Ole Petter Pedersen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer






                                      New contributor




                                      Ole Petter Pedersen is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                      answered 2 days ago









                                      Ole Petter Pedersen

                                      1




                                      1




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                                      New contributor





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                                          up vote
                                          0
                                          down vote













                                          Start with what you have, crisp, simple, perfect & clean.



                                          Can you use this to narrow down options for number of colors, font styles, illustration styles, etc?



                                          Iterate with your client by asking yes-or-no, this-or-that questions:




                                          Thanks for getting back to me. Based on your description, I'm thinking one or two colors (maybe red and gray based on your company name), san serif font, vector art rather than hand-drawn, ...



                                          Am I on the right track?



                                          From these two font styles, which do you prefer?



                                          ...



                                          These two [logos/websites/posters] from the [different] industry illustrate different approaches that I would consider crisp, simple, and clean:



                                          ...



                                          The first might appeal more to younger, urban demographic; the second to an older, more conservative demographic.



                                          Which is more in line with what you have in mind?







                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          xn. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.


















                                          • The things is, after a simple conversation with any client, a designer should be completely aware if the client is targeting a "younger, urban" demographic or an "older, conservative" demographic. While a decent answer, I kind of feel this would be unnecessarily bombarding any client with too many choices. That's a very slippery slope for client-based creative work.
                                            – Scott
                                            yesterday










                                          • As a non-designer, I tried to draw on experience getting requirements for software applications from a non-technical client. Having been the clueless client buying design work, it's always been an iterative process of either having the designer show me something and pointing out what I like and dislike about it, or having the designer show me a couple options, choosing one, and iterating. If Chloe doesn't feel she has enough info to create something to show, hopefully she can work toward gathering enough info by showing design artifacts that already exist and asking simple questions.
                                            – xn.
                                            yesterday










                                          • Okay. :) I think those designers made you, as the client, work far too much to do their job for them. :) It really just takes a conversation.
                                            – Scott
                                            yesterday















                                          up vote
                                          0
                                          down vote













                                          Start with what you have, crisp, simple, perfect & clean.



                                          Can you use this to narrow down options for number of colors, font styles, illustration styles, etc?



                                          Iterate with your client by asking yes-or-no, this-or-that questions:




                                          Thanks for getting back to me. Based on your description, I'm thinking one or two colors (maybe red and gray based on your company name), san serif font, vector art rather than hand-drawn, ...



                                          Am I on the right track?



                                          From these two font styles, which do you prefer?



                                          ...



                                          These two [logos/websites/posters] from the [different] industry illustrate different approaches that I would consider crisp, simple, and clean:



                                          ...



                                          The first might appeal more to younger, urban demographic; the second to an older, more conservative demographic.



                                          Which is more in line with what you have in mind?







                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          xn. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.


















                                          • The things is, after a simple conversation with any client, a designer should be completely aware if the client is targeting a "younger, urban" demographic or an "older, conservative" demographic. While a decent answer, I kind of feel this would be unnecessarily bombarding any client with too many choices. That's a very slippery slope for client-based creative work.
                                            – Scott
                                            yesterday










                                          • As a non-designer, I tried to draw on experience getting requirements for software applications from a non-technical client. Having been the clueless client buying design work, it's always been an iterative process of either having the designer show me something and pointing out what I like and dislike about it, or having the designer show me a couple options, choosing one, and iterating. If Chloe doesn't feel she has enough info to create something to show, hopefully she can work toward gathering enough info by showing design artifacts that already exist and asking simple questions.
                                            – xn.
                                            yesterday










                                          • Okay. :) I think those designers made you, as the client, work far too much to do their job for them. :) It really just takes a conversation.
                                            – Scott
                                            yesterday













                                          up vote
                                          0
                                          down vote










                                          up vote
                                          0
                                          down vote









                                          Start with what you have, crisp, simple, perfect & clean.



                                          Can you use this to narrow down options for number of colors, font styles, illustration styles, etc?



                                          Iterate with your client by asking yes-or-no, this-or-that questions:




                                          Thanks for getting back to me. Based on your description, I'm thinking one or two colors (maybe red and gray based on your company name), san serif font, vector art rather than hand-drawn, ...



                                          Am I on the right track?



                                          From these two font styles, which do you prefer?



                                          ...



                                          These two [logos/websites/posters] from the [different] industry illustrate different approaches that I would consider crisp, simple, and clean:



                                          ...



                                          The first might appeal more to younger, urban demographic; the second to an older, more conservative demographic.



                                          Which is more in line with what you have in mind?







                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          xn. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          Start with what you have, crisp, simple, perfect & clean.



                                          Can you use this to narrow down options for number of colors, font styles, illustration styles, etc?



                                          Iterate with your client by asking yes-or-no, this-or-that questions:




                                          Thanks for getting back to me. Based on your description, I'm thinking one or two colors (maybe red and gray based on your company name), san serif font, vector art rather than hand-drawn, ...



                                          Am I on the right track?



                                          From these two font styles, which do you prefer?



                                          ...



                                          These two [logos/websites/posters] from the [different] industry illustrate different approaches that I would consider crisp, simple, and clean:



                                          ...



                                          The first might appeal more to younger, urban demographic; the second to an older, more conservative demographic.



                                          Which is more in line with what you have in mind?








                                          share|improve this answer








                                          New contributor




                                          xn. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer






                                          New contributor




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                                          answered yesterday









                                          xn.

                                          1011




                                          1011




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                                          New contributor





                                          xn. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                          xn. is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                          Check out our Code of Conduct.












                                          • The things is, after a simple conversation with any client, a designer should be completely aware if the client is targeting a "younger, urban" demographic or an "older, conservative" demographic. While a decent answer, I kind of feel this would be unnecessarily bombarding any client with too many choices. That's a very slippery slope for client-based creative work.
                                            – Scott
                                            yesterday










                                          • As a non-designer, I tried to draw on experience getting requirements for software applications from a non-technical client. Having been the clueless client buying design work, it's always been an iterative process of either having the designer show me something and pointing out what I like and dislike about it, or having the designer show me a couple options, choosing one, and iterating. If Chloe doesn't feel she has enough info to create something to show, hopefully she can work toward gathering enough info by showing design artifacts that already exist and asking simple questions.
                                            – xn.
                                            yesterday










                                          • Okay. :) I think those designers made you, as the client, work far too much to do their job for them. :) It really just takes a conversation.
                                            – Scott
                                            yesterday


















                                          • The things is, after a simple conversation with any client, a designer should be completely aware if the client is targeting a "younger, urban" demographic or an "older, conservative" demographic. While a decent answer, I kind of feel this would be unnecessarily bombarding any client with too many choices. That's a very slippery slope for client-based creative work.
                                            – Scott
                                            yesterday










                                          • As a non-designer, I tried to draw on experience getting requirements for software applications from a non-technical client. Having been the clueless client buying design work, it's always been an iterative process of either having the designer show me something and pointing out what I like and dislike about it, or having the designer show me a couple options, choosing one, and iterating. If Chloe doesn't feel she has enough info to create something to show, hopefully she can work toward gathering enough info by showing design artifacts that already exist and asking simple questions.
                                            – xn.
                                            yesterday










                                          • Okay. :) I think those designers made you, as the client, work far too much to do their job for them. :) It really just takes a conversation.
                                            – Scott
                                            yesterday
















                                          The things is, after a simple conversation with any client, a designer should be completely aware if the client is targeting a "younger, urban" demographic or an "older, conservative" demographic. While a decent answer, I kind of feel this would be unnecessarily bombarding any client with too many choices. That's a very slippery slope for client-based creative work.
                                          – Scott
                                          yesterday




                                          The things is, after a simple conversation with any client, a designer should be completely aware if the client is targeting a "younger, urban" demographic or an "older, conservative" demographic. While a decent answer, I kind of feel this would be unnecessarily bombarding any client with too many choices. That's a very slippery slope for client-based creative work.
                                          – Scott
                                          yesterday












                                          As a non-designer, I tried to draw on experience getting requirements for software applications from a non-technical client. Having been the clueless client buying design work, it's always been an iterative process of either having the designer show me something and pointing out what I like and dislike about it, or having the designer show me a couple options, choosing one, and iterating. If Chloe doesn't feel she has enough info to create something to show, hopefully she can work toward gathering enough info by showing design artifacts that already exist and asking simple questions.
                                          – xn.
                                          yesterday




                                          As a non-designer, I tried to draw on experience getting requirements for software applications from a non-technical client. Having been the clueless client buying design work, it's always been an iterative process of either having the designer show me something and pointing out what I like and dislike about it, or having the designer show me a couple options, choosing one, and iterating. If Chloe doesn't feel she has enough info to create something to show, hopefully she can work toward gathering enough info by showing design artifacts that already exist and asking simple questions.
                                          – xn.
                                          yesterday












                                          Okay. :) I think those designers made you, as the client, work far too much to do their job for them. :) It really just takes a conversation.
                                          – Scott
                                          yesterday




                                          Okay. :) I think those designers made you, as the client, work far too much to do their job for them. :) It really just takes a conversation.
                                          – Scott
                                          yesterday










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