Does an Oni get new HP when it changes shape into a humanoid or large giant?











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I am building an encounter for 6 or 7 PCs (mixed levels 4/5) with an Oni: it may turn into combat. Oni can be very difficult, even deadly, encounters for PCs at this level. What has me puzzled is how HP loss and the change shape feature work for an Oni.



Oni begins as a Large Giant, average 110 HP. What happens during the battle when the Oni changes shape into something else? My confusion comes from use of "polymorph" to describe the change shape ability. In the spell of that name the HP of the polymorphed form can be reduced without reducing the HP of the original form.



Combat Example



The party had done 76 points of damage (leaving the Oni with 34) when the Oni changes shape into an Ettin.




  • Case 1: Oni's HP remain at 34



  • Case 2: Oni's HP are now 85 as an Ettin



    I am guessing the former




    Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




    but am not sure. There does not seem to be a limit on the number of times an Oni can change shape, and it has another feature




    Regeneration. The oni regains 10 hit points at the start of its turn if it has at least 1 hit point.





Possible Problem: Immortal Oni



If Case 2 is true, the Oni would seemingly never run out of HP as it changes shape at will when it gets low, and also regenerates.




Change Shape. The oni magically polymorphs into a Small or Medium humanoid, into a Large giant, or back into its true form. Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form. The only equipment that is transformed is its glaive, which shrinks so that it can be wielded in humanoid form. If the oni dies, it reverts to its true form, (MM, Oni)




How does it work: Case 1, or Case 2?










share|improve this question


























    up vote
    5
    down vote

    favorite












    I am building an encounter for 6 or 7 PCs (mixed levels 4/5) with an Oni: it may turn into combat. Oni can be very difficult, even deadly, encounters for PCs at this level. What has me puzzled is how HP loss and the change shape feature work for an Oni.



    Oni begins as a Large Giant, average 110 HP. What happens during the battle when the Oni changes shape into something else? My confusion comes from use of "polymorph" to describe the change shape ability. In the spell of that name the HP of the polymorphed form can be reduced without reducing the HP of the original form.



    Combat Example



    The party had done 76 points of damage (leaving the Oni with 34) when the Oni changes shape into an Ettin.




    • Case 1: Oni's HP remain at 34



    • Case 2: Oni's HP are now 85 as an Ettin



      I am guessing the former




      Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




      but am not sure. There does not seem to be a limit on the number of times an Oni can change shape, and it has another feature




      Regeneration. The oni regains 10 hit points at the start of its turn if it has at least 1 hit point.





    Possible Problem: Immortal Oni



    If Case 2 is true, the Oni would seemingly never run out of HP as it changes shape at will when it gets low, and also regenerates.




    Change Shape. The oni magically polymorphs into a Small or Medium humanoid, into a Large giant, or back into its true form. Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form. The only equipment that is transformed is its glaive, which shrinks so that it can be wielded in humanoid form. If the oni dies, it reverts to its true form, (MM, Oni)




    How does it work: Case 1, or Case 2?










    share|improve this question
























      up vote
      5
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      5
      down vote

      favorite











      I am building an encounter for 6 or 7 PCs (mixed levels 4/5) with an Oni: it may turn into combat. Oni can be very difficult, even deadly, encounters for PCs at this level. What has me puzzled is how HP loss and the change shape feature work for an Oni.



      Oni begins as a Large Giant, average 110 HP. What happens during the battle when the Oni changes shape into something else? My confusion comes from use of "polymorph" to describe the change shape ability. In the spell of that name the HP of the polymorphed form can be reduced without reducing the HP of the original form.



      Combat Example



      The party had done 76 points of damage (leaving the Oni with 34) when the Oni changes shape into an Ettin.




      • Case 1: Oni's HP remain at 34



      • Case 2: Oni's HP are now 85 as an Ettin



        I am guessing the former




        Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




        but am not sure. There does not seem to be a limit on the number of times an Oni can change shape, and it has another feature




        Regeneration. The oni regains 10 hit points at the start of its turn if it has at least 1 hit point.





      Possible Problem: Immortal Oni



      If Case 2 is true, the Oni would seemingly never run out of HP as it changes shape at will when it gets low, and also regenerates.




      Change Shape. The oni magically polymorphs into a Small or Medium humanoid, into a Large giant, or back into its true form. Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form. The only equipment that is transformed is its glaive, which shrinks so that it can be wielded in humanoid form. If the oni dies, it reverts to its true form, (MM, Oni)




      How does it work: Case 1, or Case 2?










      share|improve this question













      I am building an encounter for 6 or 7 PCs (mixed levels 4/5) with an Oni: it may turn into combat. Oni can be very difficult, even deadly, encounters for PCs at this level. What has me puzzled is how HP loss and the change shape feature work for an Oni.



      Oni begins as a Large Giant, average 110 HP. What happens during the battle when the Oni changes shape into something else? My confusion comes from use of "polymorph" to describe the change shape ability. In the spell of that name the HP of the polymorphed form can be reduced without reducing the HP of the original form.



      Combat Example



      The party had done 76 points of damage (leaving the Oni with 34) when the Oni changes shape into an Ettin.




      • Case 1: Oni's HP remain at 34



      • Case 2: Oni's HP are now 85 as an Ettin



        I am guessing the former




        Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




        but am not sure. There does not seem to be a limit on the number of times an Oni can change shape, and it has another feature




        Regeneration. The oni regains 10 hit points at the start of its turn if it has at least 1 hit point.





      Possible Problem: Immortal Oni



      If Case 2 is true, the Oni would seemingly never run out of HP as it changes shape at will when it gets low, and also regenerates.




      Change Shape. The oni magically polymorphs into a Small or Medium humanoid, into a Large giant, or back into its true form. Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form. The only equipment that is transformed is its glaive, which shrinks so that it can be wielded in humanoid form. If the oni dies, it reverts to its true form, (MM, Oni)




      How does it work: Case 1, or Case 2?







      dnd-5e monsters polymorph shapeshifter






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      asked Nov 20 at 16:18









      KorvinStarmast

      73.4k17228401




      73.4k17228401






















          3 Answers
          3






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          up vote
          16
          down vote













          Case 1, the Oni remains with 34HP.



          As you quoted in Shapechange:




          Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




          So all things in the Oni's stat block remain exactly the same when it transforms, apart from its size and appearance. This means he remains at 34HP, and regens 10HP per turn as usual.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 1




            Nice update, thx.
            – KorvinStarmast
            Nov 20 at 16:45


















          up vote
          9
          down vote













          Case 1



          Consider the wording of the Change Shape ability...




          Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




          The only thing that changes with an Oni is its appearance and size. If it adopted the new form's hit points, it would say so. Consider, as a contrast, a few effects that do cause you to adopt a new form's hit points



          Druid's Wild Shape:




          When you transform, you assume the beast’s hit points and Hit Dice. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed.




          All three types of Polymorph and Animal Shapes:




          The target assumes the hit points of its new form.




          Shapechange:




          You assume the hit points and Hit Dice of the new form.




          There is a long precedent of the D&D developers, particularly Jeremy Crawford (the voice of Official Rulings from Wizards of the Coast) making statements that clearly imply: "Things do what they say they do. If it did [X], then it would say so." See this answer for more details (though focused particularly on spells).






          share|improve this answer





















          • Although not required by the OP, I think mentioning what happens in a situation where the Oni transforms into a creature with (stat-block-wise) less HP would be beneficial to your answer. Example: Oni with full HP transforms into a commoner - he wouldn't lose most of his HP, since they're independent of his form, like you said.
            – PixelMaster
            Nov 21 at 8:06


















          up vote
          4
          down vote













          There seems to be some confusion with your reading of this ability



          The Oni's change shape has nothing to do with the polymorph spell. In this description, polymorph is being used as a verb. The Oni is also not assuming any of the stats or abilities of other creatures.



          Note the sentence:




          Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




          This means that this transformation does not change the Oni's HP and does not grant it any abilities, the only thing that changes is the Oni's size. The choice of form that the Oni changes into does not really matter other than for visual purposes. This means that turning into an Ettin only really makes the Oni look like an Ettin, it does not grant it the Ettin's actions or other features.






          share|improve this answer























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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

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            active

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            active

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            up vote
            16
            down vote













            Case 1, the Oni remains with 34HP.



            As you quoted in Shapechange:




            Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




            So all things in the Oni's stat block remain exactly the same when it transforms, apart from its size and appearance. This means he remains at 34HP, and regens 10HP per turn as usual.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 1




              Nice update, thx.
              – KorvinStarmast
              Nov 20 at 16:45















            up vote
            16
            down vote













            Case 1, the Oni remains with 34HP.



            As you quoted in Shapechange:




            Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




            So all things in the Oni's stat block remain exactly the same when it transforms, apart from its size and appearance. This means he remains at 34HP, and regens 10HP per turn as usual.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 1




              Nice update, thx.
              – KorvinStarmast
              Nov 20 at 16:45













            up vote
            16
            down vote










            up vote
            16
            down vote









            Case 1, the Oni remains with 34HP.



            As you quoted in Shapechange:




            Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




            So all things in the Oni's stat block remain exactly the same when it transforms, apart from its size and appearance. This means he remains at 34HP, and regens 10HP per turn as usual.






            share|improve this answer














            Case 1, the Oni remains with 34HP.



            As you quoted in Shapechange:




            Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




            So all things in the Oni's stat block remain exactly the same when it transforms, apart from its size and appearance. This means he remains at 34HP, and regens 10HP per turn as usual.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Nov 20 at 16:44

























            answered Nov 20 at 16:26









            BlueMoon93

            12.4k965131




            12.4k965131








            • 1




              Nice update, thx.
              – KorvinStarmast
              Nov 20 at 16:45














            • 1




              Nice update, thx.
              – KorvinStarmast
              Nov 20 at 16:45








            1




            1




            Nice update, thx.
            – KorvinStarmast
            Nov 20 at 16:45




            Nice update, thx.
            – KorvinStarmast
            Nov 20 at 16:45












            up vote
            9
            down vote













            Case 1



            Consider the wording of the Change Shape ability...




            Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




            The only thing that changes with an Oni is its appearance and size. If it adopted the new form's hit points, it would say so. Consider, as a contrast, a few effects that do cause you to adopt a new form's hit points



            Druid's Wild Shape:




            When you transform, you assume the beast’s hit points and Hit Dice. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed.




            All three types of Polymorph and Animal Shapes:




            The target assumes the hit points of its new form.




            Shapechange:




            You assume the hit points and Hit Dice of the new form.




            There is a long precedent of the D&D developers, particularly Jeremy Crawford (the voice of Official Rulings from Wizards of the Coast) making statements that clearly imply: "Things do what they say they do. If it did [X], then it would say so." See this answer for more details (though focused particularly on spells).






            share|improve this answer





















            • Although not required by the OP, I think mentioning what happens in a situation where the Oni transforms into a creature with (stat-block-wise) less HP would be beneficial to your answer. Example: Oni with full HP transforms into a commoner - he wouldn't lose most of his HP, since they're independent of his form, like you said.
              – PixelMaster
              Nov 21 at 8:06















            up vote
            9
            down vote













            Case 1



            Consider the wording of the Change Shape ability...




            Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




            The only thing that changes with an Oni is its appearance and size. If it adopted the new form's hit points, it would say so. Consider, as a contrast, a few effects that do cause you to adopt a new form's hit points



            Druid's Wild Shape:




            When you transform, you assume the beast’s hit points and Hit Dice. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed.




            All three types of Polymorph and Animal Shapes:




            The target assumes the hit points of its new form.




            Shapechange:




            You assume the hit points and Hit Dice of the new form.




            There is a long precedent of the D&D developers, particularly Jeremy Crawford (the voice of Official Rulings from Wizards of the Coast) making statements that clearly imply: "Things do what they say they do. If it did [X], then it would say so." See this answer for more details (though focused particularly on spells).






            share|improve this answer





















            • Although not required by the OP, I think mentioning what happens in a situation where the Oni transforms into a creature with (stat-block-wise) less HP would be beneficial to your answer. Example: Oni with full HP transforms into a commoner - he wouldn't lose most of his HP, since they're independent of his form, like you said.
              – PixelMaster
              Nov 21 at 8:06













            up vote
            9
            down vote










            up vote
            9
            down vote









            Case 1



            Consider the wording of the Change Shape ability...




            Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




            The only thing that changes with an Oni is its appearance and size. If it adopted the new form's hit points, it would say so. Consider, as a contrast, a few effects that do cause you to adopt a new form's hit points



            Druid's Wild Shape:




            When you transform, you assume the beast’s hit points and Hit Dice. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed.




            All three types of Polymorph and Animal Shapes:




            The target assumes the hit points of its new form.




            Shapechange:




            You assume the hit points and Hit Dice of the new form.




            There is a long precedent of the D&D developers, particularly Jeremy Crawford (the voice of Official Rulings from Wizards of the Coast) making statements that clearly imply: "Things do what they say they do. If it did [X], then it would say so." See this answer for more details (though focused particularly on spells).






            share|improve this answer












            Case 1



            Consider the wording of the Change Shape ability...




            Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




            The only thing that changes with an Oni is its appearance and size. If it adopted the new form's hit points, it would say so. Consider, as a contrast, a few effects that do cause you to adopt a new form's hit points



            Druid's Wild Shape:




            When you transform, you assume the beast’s hit points and Hit Dice. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed.




            All three types of Polymorph and Animal Shapes:




            The target assumes the hit points of its new form.




            Shapechange:




            You assume the hit points and Hit Dice of the new form.




            There is a long precedent of the D&D developers, particularly Jeremy Crawford (the voice of Official Rulings from Wizards of the Coast) making statements that clearly imply: "Things do what they say they do. If it did [X], then it would say so." See this answer for more details (though focused particularly on spells).







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Nov 20 at 16:26









            guildsbounty

            33.2k5138166




            33.2k5138166












            • Although not required by the OP, I think mentioning what happens in a situation where the Oni transforms into a creature with (stat-block-wise) less HP would be beneficial to your answer. Example: Oni with full HP transforms into a commoner - he wouldn't lose most of his HP, since they're independent of his form, like you said.
              – PixelMaster
              Nov 21 at 8:06


















            • Although not required by the OP, I think mentioning what happens in a situation where the Oni transforms into a creature with (stat-block-wise) less HP would be beneficial to your answer. Example: Oni with full HP transforms into a commoner - he wouldn't lose most of his HP, since they're independent of his form, like you said.
              – PixelMaster
              Nov 21 at 8:06
















            Although not required by the OP, I think mentioning what happens in a situation where the Oni transforms into a creature with (stat-block-wise) less HP would be beneficial to your answer. Example: Oni with full HP transforms into a commoner - he wouldn't lose most of his HP, since they're independent of his form, like you said.
            – PixelMaster
            Nov 21 at 8:06




            Although not required by the OP, I think mentioning what happens in a situation where the Oni transforms into a creature with (stat-block-wise) less HP would be beneficial to your answer. Example: Oni with full HP transforms into a commoner - he wouldn't lose most of his HP, since they're independent of his form, like you said.
            – PixelMaster
            Nov 21 at 8:06










            up vote
            4
            down vote













            There seems to be some confusion with your reading of this ability



            The Oni's change shape has nothing to do with the polymorph spell. In this description, polymorph is being used as a verb. The Oni is also not assuming any of the stats or abilities of other creatures.



            Note the sentence:




            Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




            This means that this transformation does not change the Oni's HP and does not grant it any abilities, the only thing that changes is the Oni's size. The choice of form that the Oni changes into does not really matter other than for visual purposes. This means that turning into an Ettin only really makes the Oni look like an Ettin, it does not grant it the Ettin's actions or other features.






            share|improve this answer



























              up vote
              4
              down vote













              There seems to be some confusion with your reading of this ability



              The Oni's change shape has nothing to do with the polymorph spell. In this description, polymorph is being used as a verb. The Oni is also not assuming any of the stats or abilities of other creatures.



              Note the sentence:




              Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




              This means that this transformation does not change the Oni's HP and does not grant it any abilities, the only thing that changes is the Oni's size. The choice of form that the Oni changes into does not really matter other than for visual purposes. This means that turning into an Ettin only really makes the Oni look like an Ettin, it does not grant it the Ettin's actions or other features.






              share|improve this answer

























                up vote
                4
                down vote










                up vote
                4
                down vote









                There seems to be some confusion with your reading of this ability



                The Oni's change shape has nothing to do with the polymorph spell. In this description, polymorph is being used as a verb. The Oni is also not assuming any of the stats or abilities of other creatures.



                Note the sentence:




                Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




                This means that this transformation does not change the Oni's HP and does not grant it any abilities, the only thing that changes is the Oni's size. The choice of form that the Oni changes into does not really matter other than for visual purposes. This means that turning into an Ettin only really makes the Oni look like an Ettin, it does not grant it the Ettin's actions or other features.






                share|improve this answer














                There seems to be some confusion with your reading of this ability



                The Oni's change shape has nothing to do with the polymorph spell. In this description, polymorph is being used as a verb. The Oni is also not assuming any of the stats or abilities of other creatures.



                Note the sentence:




                Other than its size, its statistics are the same in each form.




                This means that this transformation does not change the Oni's HP and does not grant it any abilities, the only thing that changes is the Oni's size. The choice of form that the Oni changes into does not really matter other than for visual purposes. This means that turning into an Ettin only really makes the Oni look like an Ettin, it does not grant it the Ettin's actions or other features.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited Nov 20 at 16:45

























                answered Nov 20 at 16:26









                Sdjz

                10.6k34994




                10.6k34994






























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