How long do Beornings live?












3














In The Desolation of Smaug, Beorn mentions to Gandalf that he remembers the time when Sauron ruled over Mirkwood.




[Beorn to Gandalf:] "I remember a time when a great evil ruled these lands. One powerful enough to raise the dead. If that enemy has returned to Middle-Earth, I would have you tell me."




Since Sauron was defeated 3000 years ago when that discussion takes place, that would mean that Beorn and his kin had lifespan measured in millenia, not unlike that of Elves.



Was it ever mentioned what is the lifespan of Beornings and how long did Beorn himself lived?










share|improve this question




















  • 1




    I don’t believe Tolkien ever mentioned how old Beorn was; that’s a movie invention.
    – Neithan
    3 hours ago










  • Also, having been alive for as long as someone else dies not in any way imply both lives will continue for the same time after.
    – James McLeod
    3 hours ago
















3














In The Desolation of Smaug, Beorn mentions to Gandalf that he remembers the time when Sauron ruled over Mirkwood.




[Beorn to Gandalf:] "I remember a time when a great evil ruled these lands. One powerful enough to raise the dead. If that enemy has returned to Middle-Earth, I would have you tell me."




Since Sauron was defeated 3000 years ago when that discussion takes place, that would mean that Beorn and his kin had lifespan measured in millenia, not unlike that of Elves.



Was it ever mentioned what is the lifespan of Beornings and how long did Beorn himself lived?










share|improve this question




















  • 1




    I don’t believe Tolkien ever mentioned how old Beorn was; that’s a movie invention.
    – Neithan
    3 hours ago










  • Also, having been alive for as long as someone else dies not in any way imply both lives will continue for the same time after.
    – James McLeod
    3 hours ago














3












3








3







In The Desolation of Smaug, Beorn mentions to Gandalf that he remembers the time when Sauron ruled over Mirkwood.




[Beorn to Gandalf:] "I remember a time when a great evil ruled these lands. One powerful enough to raise the dead. If that enemy has returned to Middle-Earth, I would have you tell me."




Since Sauron was defeated 3000 years ago when that discussion takes place, that would mean that Beorn and his kin had lifespan measured in millenia, not unlike that of Elves.



Was it ever mentioned what is the lifespan of Beornings and how long did Beorn himself lived?










share|improve this question















In The Desolation of Smaug, Beorn mentions to Gandalf that he remembers the time when Sauron ruled over Mirkwood.




[Beorn to Gandalf:] "I remember a time when a great evil ruled these lands. One powerful enough to raise the dead. If that enemy has returned to Middle-Earth, I would have you tell me."




Since Sauron was defeated 3000 years ago when that discussion takes place, that would mean that Beorn and his kin had lifespan measured in millenia, not unlike that of Elves.



Was it ever mentioned what is the lifespan of Beornings and how long did Beorn himself lived?







tolkiens-legendarium






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share|improve this question













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share|improve this question








edited 2 hours ago

























asked 4 hours ago









Sava

3,11911050




3,11911050








  • 1




    I don’t believe Tolkien ever mentioned how old Beorn was; that’s a movie invention.
    – Neithan
    3 hours ago










  • Also, having been alive for as long as someone else dies not in any way imply both lives will continue for the same time after.
    – James McLeod
    3 hours ago














  • 1




    I don’t believe Tolkien ever mentioned how old Beorn was; that’s a movie invention.
    – Neithan
    3 hours ago










  • Also, having been alive for as long as someone else dies not in any way imply both lives will continue for the same time after.
    – James McLeod
    3 hours ago








1




1




I don’t believe Tolkien ever mentioned how old Beorn was; that’s a movie invention.
– Neithan
3 hours ago




I don’t believe Tolkien ever mentioned how old Beorn was; that’s a movie invention.
– Neithan
3 hours ago












Also, having been alive for as long as someone else dies not in any way imply both lives will continue for the same time after.
– James McLeod
3 hours ago




Also, having been alive for as long as someone else dies not in any way imply both lives will continue for the same time after.
– James McLeod
3 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















3














No idea...



Movies



In the movies, Beorn mentions that he was from the mountains, and he is aware of the darkness in Mirkwood. Obviously at that time no one knew who the Necromancer was, so he couldn't have known it was Sauron.




[Thorin:] “You know of Azog? How?”



[Beorn:] “My people were the first to live in the mountains, before the Orcs came down from the north. The Defiler killed most of my family, but some he enslaved.”



[Bilbo sees the remnants of manacles on Beorn’s wrist.]



[Beorn:] “Not for work, you understand, but for sport. Caging skin-changers and torturing them seemed to amuse him.”



[Bilbo:] “There are others like you?”



[Beorn:] “Once, there were many.”



[Bilbo:] “And now?”



[Beorn:] “Now, there is only one.”



[The dwarves, Bilbo, and Gandalf look on in silence.]



[Beorn:] “You need to reach the mountain before the last days of autumn?"



[Gandalf:] “Before Durin’s Day falls, yes.”



[Beorn:] “You are running out of time.”



[Gandalf:] “Which is why we must go through Mirkwood.”



[Beorn:] “A darkness lies upon that forest. Fell things creep beneath those trees. There is an alliance between the Orcs of Moria and the Necromancer in Dol Guldur. I would not venture there except in great need.”




Books



Neither does he mention this in the books as well.



...but presumably as long-lived as regular, mortal Men



In Appendix F:




Most of the Men of the northern regions if the West-lands were descended from the Edain of the First Age, or from their close kin. Their languages were, therefore, related to the Adunaic, and some still preserved a likeness to the Common Speech. Of this kind were the people of the upper vales of the Anduin: the Beornings, [...].




So having no relations the the Numenoreans they did not have their extended lifespans, and therefore would have lived as long as Men normally would (presumably 80-100 years old).






share|improve this answer





























    2














    It is unclear, even to Gandalf (at least as of The Hobbit, before the wizard and Beorn became friends) whether Beorn is fundamentally a man who can change into a bear, or a bear who that can shapeshift into a man. As Gandalf puts it in "Queer Lodgings":




    Some say that he is a bear
    descended from the great and ancient bears of
    the mountains that lived there before the giants
    came. Others say that he is a man descended
    from the first men who lived before Smaug or
    the other dragons came into this part of the
    world, and before the goblins came into the hills
    out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the
    last is the true tale. He is not the sort of person
    to ask questions of.



    At any rate he is under no enchantment but
    his own. He lives in an oak-wood and has a
    great wooden house; and as a man he keeps
    cattle and horses which are nearly as
    marvellous as himself. They work for him and
    talk to him. He does not eat them; neither does
    he hunt or eat wild animals. He keeps hives and
    hives of great fierce bees, and lives most on
    cream and honey. As a bear he ranges far and
    wide. I once saw him sitting all alone on the top
    of the Carrock at night watching the moon
    sinking towards the Misty Mountains, and I
    heard him growl in the tongue of bears: ‘The
    day will come when they will perish and I shall
    go back!’ That is why I believe he once came
    from the mountains himself.




    Although "came from the mountains" is ambiguous, to me this makes it sound as if Beorn himself may have been driven down out of the Misty Mountains when they became inhospitable—not merely that he is descended from men or bears who previously lived up among the heights. The Misty Mountains had been infested with orcs since at least the 2790s, when the War of the Dwarves and Orcs took place. Since the Thorin and Company meet Beorn in T. A. 2961, Beorn seems to have been well over 150 at the time of The Hobbit. That is not beyond the limit of human lifespans in Middle Earth, but it does suggest that (beyond his ability to change shapes), Beorn is not a normal human.



    On the other hand, we know from The Fellowship of the Ring, "Many Meetings":




    Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men, and to their land between the Mountains and Mirkwood neither orc nor wolf dared to go.




    From this is seems likely that Beorn was deceased by the year 3018, when Frodo arrived in Rivendell. Moreover, the fact that his son was given the cognomen "the Old" suggests again that Beorn's descendants also enjoyed longer lifespans than ordinary men.



    The fact that Beorn seems probably to have died is also significant in another way. In general, the idea of intelligent, speaking animals (be they bears, wargs, ravens, or other) is actually somewhat difficult to reconcile with Tolkien's cosmogony, in which only those races given the Secret Fire by Eru possess free will and souls. Talking animals—both good and evil—crop up repeatedly in The Hobbit though, so there does need to be some place for them. It is sometimes suggested that, like the eagles (the emissaries of Manwë) all the other animals who talk—from Huan the Hound to the thrush who tells Bard of Smaug's weak spot—are actually Ainur in animal shapes. However, this seems not to be a viable explanation for Beorn, if did eventually die of old age.






    share|improve this answer





















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      2 Answers
      2






      active

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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

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      active

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      active

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      3














      No idea...



      Movies



      In the movies, Beorn mentions that he was from the mountains, and he is aware of the darkness in Mirkwood. Obviously at that time no one knew who the Necromancer was, so he couldn't have known it was Sauron.




      [Thorin:] “You know of Azog? How?”



      [Beorn:] “My people were the first to live in the mountains, before the Orcs came down from the north. The Defiler killed most of my family, but some he enslaved.”



      [Bilbo sees the remnants of manacles on Beorn’s wrist.]



      [Beorn:] “Not for work, you understand, but for sport. Caging skin-changers and torturing them seemed to amuse him.”



      [Bilbo:] “There are others like you?”



      [Beorn:] “Once, there were many.”



      [Bilbo:] “And now?”



      [Beorn:] “Now, there is only one.”



      [The dwarves, Bilbo, and Gandalf look on in silence.]



      [Beorn:] “You need to reach the mountain before the last days of autumn?"



      [Gandalf:] “Before Durin’s Day falls, yes.”



      [Beorn:] “You are running out of time.”



      [Gandalf:] “Which is why we must go through Mirkwood.”



      [Beorn:] “A darkness lies upon that forest. Fell things creep beneath those trees. There is an alliance between the Orcs of Moria and the Necromancer in Dol Guldur. I would not venture there except in great need.”




      Books



      Neither does he mention this in the books as well.



      ...but presumably as long-lived as regular, mortal Men



      In Appendix F:




      Most of the Men of the northern regions if the West-lands were descended from the Edain of the First Age, or from their close kin. Their languages were, therefore, related to the Adunaic, and some still preserved a likeness to the Common Speech. Of this kind were the people of the upper vales of the Anduin: the Beornings, [...].




      So having no relations the the Numenoreans they did not have their extended lifespans, and therefore would have lived as long as Men normally would (presumably 80-100 years old).






      share|improve this answer


























        3














        No idea...



        Movies



        In the movies, Beorn mentions that he was from the mountains, and he is aware of the darkness in Mirkwood. Obviously at that time no one knew who the Necromancer was, so he couldn't have known it was Sauron.




        [Thorin:] “You know of Azog? How?”



        [Beorn:] “My people were the first to live in the mountains, before the Orcs came down from the north. The Defiler killed most of my family, but some he enslaved.”



        [Bilbo sees the remnants of manacles on Beorn’s wrist.]



        [Beorn:] “Not for work, you understand, but for sport. Caging skin-changers and torturing them seemed to amuse him.”



        [Bilbo:] “There are others like you?”



        [Beorn:] “Once, there were many.”



        [Bilbo:] “And now?”



        [Beorn:] “Now, there is only one.”



        [The dwarves, Bilbo, and Gandalf look on in silence.]



        [Beorn:] “You need to reach the mountain before the last days of autumn?"



        [Gandalf:] “Before Durin’s Day falls, yes.”



        [Beorn:] “You are running out of time.”



        [Gandalf:] “Which is why we must go through Mirkwood.”



        [Beorn:] “A darkness lies upon that forest. Fell things creep beneath those trees. There is an alliance between the Orcs of Moria and the Necromancer in Dol Guldur. I would not venture there except in great need.”




        Books



        Neither does he mention this in the books as well.



        ...but presumably as long-lived as regular, mortal Men



        In Appendix F:




        Most of the Men of the northern regions if the West-lands were descended from the Edain of the First Age, or from their close kin. Their languages were, therefore, related to the Adunaic, and some still preserved a likeness to the Common Speech. Of this kind were the people of the upper vales of the Anduin: the Beornings, [...].




        So having no relations the the Numenoreans they did not have their extended lifespans, and therefore would have lived as long as Men normally would (presumably 80-100 years old).






        share|improve this answer
























          3












          3








          3






          No idea...



          Movies



          In the movies, Beorn mentions that he was from the mountains, and he is aware of the darkness in Mirkwood. Obviously at that time no one knew who the Necromancer was, so he couldn't have known it was Sauron.




          [Thorin:] “You know of Azog? How?”



          [Beorn:] “My people were the first to live in the mountains, before the Orcs came down from the north. The Defiler killed most of my family, but some he enslaved.”



          [Bilbo sees the remnants of manacles on Beorn’s wrist.]



          [Beorn:] “Not for work, you understand, but for sport. Caging skin-changers and torturing them seemed to amuse him.”



          [Bilbo:] “There are others like you?”



          [Beorn:] “Once, there were many.”



          [Bilbo:] “And now?”



          [Beorn:] “Now, there is only one.”



          [The dwarves, Bilbo, and Gandalf look on in silence.]



          [Beorn:] “You need to reach the mountain before the last days of autumn?"



          [Gandalf:] “Before Durin’s Day falls, yes.”



          [Beorn:] “You are running out of time.”



          [Gandalf:] “Which is why we must go through Mirkwood.”



          [Beorn:] “A darkness lies upon that forest. Fell things creep beneath those trees. There is an alliance between the Orcs of Moria and the Necromancer in Dol Guldur. I would not venture there except in great need.”




          Books



          Neither does he mention this in the books as well.



          ...but presumably as long-lived as regular, mortal Men



          In Appendix F:




          Most of the Men of the northern regions if the West-lands were descended from the Edain of the First Age, or from their close kin. Their languages were, therefore, related to the Adunaic, and some still preserved a likeness to the Common Speech. Of this kind were the people of the upper vales of the Anduin: the Beornings, [...].




          So having no relations the the Numenoreans they did not have their extended lifespans, and therefore would have lived as long as Men normally would (presumably 80-100 years old).






          share|improve this answer












          No idea...



          Movies



          In the movies, Beorn mentions that he was from the mountains, and he is aware of the darkness in Mirkwood. Obviously at that time no one knew who the Necromancer was, so he couldn't have known it was Sauron.




          [Thorin:] “You know of Azog? How?”



          [Beorn:] “My people were the first to live in the mountains, before the Orcs came down from the north. The Defiler killed most of my family, but some he enslaved.”



          [Bilbo sees the remnants of manacles on Beorn’s wrist.]



          [Beorn:] “Not for work, you understand, but for sport. Caging skin-changers and torturing them seemed to amuse him.”



          [Bilbo:] “There are others like you?”



          [Beorn:] “Once, there were many.”



          [Bilbo:] “And now?”



          [Beorn:] “Now, there is only one.”



          [The dwarves, Bilbo, and Gandalf look on in silence.]



          [Beorn:] “You need to reach the mountain before the last days of autumn?"



          [Gandalf:] “Before Durin’s Day falls, yes.”



          [Beorn:] “You are running out of time.”



          [Gandalf:] “Which is why we must go through Mirkwood.”



          [Beorn:] “A darkness lies upon that forest. Fell things creep beneath those trees. There is an alliance between the Orcs of Moria and the Necromancer in Dol Guldur. I would not venture there except in great need.”




          Books



          Neither does he mention this in the books as well.



          ...but presumably as long-lived as regular, mortal Men



          In Appendix F:




          Most of the Men of the northern regions if the West-lands were descended from the Edain of the First Age, or from their close kin. Their languages were, therefore, related to the Adunaic, and some still preserved a likeness to the Common Speech. Of this kind were the people of the upper vales of the Anduin: the Beornings, [...].




          So having no relations the the Numenoreans they did not have their extended lifespans, and therefore would have lived as long as Men normally would (presumably 80-100 years old).







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 2 hours ago









          Mat Cauthon

          16.2k480132




          16.2k480132

























              2














              It is unclear, even to Gandalf (at least as of The Hobbit, before the wizard and Beorn became friends) whether Beorn is fundamentally a man who can change into a bear, or a bear who that can shapeshift into a man. As Gandalf puts it in "Queer Lodgings":




              Some say that he is a bear
              descended from the great and ancient bears of
              the mountains that lived there before the giants
              came. Others say that he is a man descended
              from the first men who lived before Smaug or
              the other dragons came into this part of the
              world, and before the goblins came into the hills
              out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the
              last is the true tale. He is not the sort of person
              to ask questions of.



              At any rate he is under no enchantment but
              his own. He lives in an oak-wood and has a
              great wooden house; and as a man he keeps
              cattle and horses which are nearly as
              marvellous as himself. They work for him and
              talk to him. He does not eat them; neither does
              he hunt or eat wild animals. He keeps hives and
              hives of great fierce bees, and lives most on
              cream and honey. As a bear he ranges far and
              wide. I once saw him sitting all alone on the top
              of the Carrock at night watching the moon
              sinking towards the Misty Mountains, and I
              heard him growl in the tongue of bears: ‘The
              day will come when they will perish and I shall
              go back!’ That is why I believe he once came
              from the mountains himself.




              Although "came from the mountains" is ambiguous, to me this makes it sound as if Beorn himself may have been driven down out of the Misty Mountains when they became inhospitable—not merely that he is descended from men or bears who previously lived up among the heights. The Misty Mountains had been infested with orcs since at least the 2790s, when the War of the Dwarves and Orcs took place. Since the Thorin and Company meet Beorn in T. A. 2961, Beorn seems to have been well over 150 at the time of The Hobbit. That is not beyond the limit of human lifespans in Middle Earth, but it does suggest that (beyond his ability to change shapes), Beorn is not a normal human.



              On the other hand, we know from The Fellowship of the Ring, "Many Meetings":




              Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men, and to their land between the Mountains and Mirkwood neither orc nor wolf dared to go.




              From this is seems likely that Beorn was deceased by the year 3018, when Frodo arrived in Rivendell. Moreover, the fact that his son was given the cognomen "the Old" suggests again that Beorn's descendants also enjoyed longer lifespans than ordinary men.



              The fact that Beorn seems probably to have died is also significant in another way. In general, the idea of intelligent, speaking animals (be they bears, wargs, ravens, or other) is actually somewhat difficult to reconcile with Tolkien's cosmogony, in which only those races given the Secret Fire by Eru possess free will and souls. Talking animals—both good and evil—crop up repeatedly in The Hobbit though, so there does need to be some place for them. It is sometimes suggested that, like the eagles (the emissaries of Manwë) all the other animals who talk—from Huan the Hound to the thrush who tells Bard of Smaug's weak spot—are actually Ainur in animal shapes. However, this seems not to be a viable explanation for Beorn, if did eventually die of old age.






              share|improve this answer


























                2














                It is unclear, even to Gandalf (at least as of The Hobbit, before the wizard and Beorn became friends) whether Beorn is fundamentally a man who can change into a bear, or a bear who that can shapeshift into a man. As Gandalf puts it in "Queer Lodgings":




                Some say that he is a bear
                descended from the great and ancient bears of
                the mountains that lived there before the giants
                came. Others say that he is a man descended
                from the first men who lived before Smaug or
                the other dragons came into this part of the
                world, and before the goblins came into the hills
                out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the
                last is the true tale. He is not the sort of person
                to ask questions of.



                At any rate he is under no enchantment but
                his own. He lives in an oak-wood and has a
                great wooden house; and as a man he keeps
                cattle and horses which are nearly as
                marvellous as himself. They work for him and
                talk to him. He does not eat them; neither does
                he hunt or eat wild animals. He keeps hives and
                hives of great fierce bees, and lives most on
                cream and honey. As a bear he ranges far and
                wide. I once saw him sitting all alone on the top
                of the Carrock at night watching the moon
                sinking towards the Misty Mountains, and I
                heard him growl in the tongue of bears: ‘The
                day will come when they will perish and I shall
                go back!’ That is why I believe he once came
                from the mountains himself.




                Although "came from the mountains" is ambiguous, to me this makes it sound as if Beorn himself may have been driven down out of the Misty Mountains when they became inhospitable—not merely that he is descended from men or bears who previously lived up among the heights. The Misty Mountains had been infested with orcs since at least the 2790s, when the War of the Dwarves and Orcs took place. Since the Thorin and Company meet Beorn in T. A. 2961, Beorn seems to have been well over 150 at the time of The Hobbit. That is not beyond the limit of human lifespans in Middle Earth, but it does suggest that (beyond his ability to change shapes), Beorn is not a normal human.



                On the other hand, we know from The Fellowship of the Ring, "Many Meetings":




                Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men, and to their land between the Mountains and Mirkwood neither orc nor wolf dared to go.




                From this is seems likely that Beorn was deceased by the year 3018, when Frodo arrived in Rivendell. Moreover, the fact that his son was given the cognomen "the Old" suggests again that Beorn's descendants also enjoyed longer lifespans than ordinary men.



                The fact that Beorn seems probably to have died is also significant in another way. In general, the idea of intelligent, speaking animals (be they bears, wargs, ravens, or other) is actually somewhat difficult to reconcile with Tolkien's cosmogony, in which only those races given the Secret Fire by Eru possess free will and souls. Talking animals—both good and evil—crop up repeatedly in The Hobbit though, so there does need to be some place for them. It is sometimes suggested that, like the eagles (the emissaries of Manwë) all the other animals who talk—from Huan the Hound to the thrush who tells Bard of Smaug's weak spot—are actually Ainur in animal shapes. However, this seems not to be a viable explanation for Beorn, if did eventually die of old age.






                share|improve this answer
























                  2












                  2








                  2






                  It is unclear, even to Gandalf (at least as of The Hobbit, before the wizard and Beorn became friends) whether Beorn is fundamentally a man who can change into a bear, or a bear who that can shapeshift into a man. As Gandalf puts it in "Queer Lodgings":




                  Some say that he is a bear
                  descended from the great and ancient bears of
                  the mountains that lived there before the giants
                  came. Others say that he is a man descended
                  from the first men who lived before Smaug or
                  the other dragons came into this part of the
                  world, and before the goblins came into the hills
                  out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the
                  last is the true tale. He is not the sort of person
                  to ask questions of.



                  At any rate he is under no enchantment but
                  his own. He lives in an oak-wood and has a
                  great wooden house; and as a man he keeps
                  cattle and horses which are nearly as
                  marvellous as himself. They work for him and
                  talk to him. He does not eat them; neither does
                  he hunt or eat wild animals. He keeps hives and
                  hives of great fierce bees, and lives most on
                  cream and honey. As a bear he ranges far and
                  wide. I once saw him sitting all alone on the top
                  of the Carrock at night watching the moon
                  sinking towards the Misty Mountains, and I
                  heard him growl in the tongue of bears: ‘The
                  day will come when they will perish and I shall
                  go back!’ That is why I believe he once came
                  from the mountains himself.




                  Although "came from the mountains" is ambiguous, to me this makes it sound as if Beorn himself may have been driven down out of the Misty Mountains when they became inhospitable—not merely that he is descended from men or bears who previously lived up among the heights. The Misty Mountains had been infested with orcs since at least the 2790s, when the War of the Dwarves and Orcs took place. Since the Thorin and Company meet Beorn in T. A. 2961, Beorn seems to have been well over 150 at the time of The Hobbit. That is not beyond the limit of human lifespans in Middle Earth, but it does suggest that (beyond his ability to change shapes), Beorn is not a normal human.



                  On the other hand, we know from The Fellowship of the Ring, "Many Meetings":




                  Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men, and to their land between the Mountains and Mirkwood neither orc nor wolf dared to go.




                  From this is seems likely that Beorn was deceased by the year 3018, when Frodo arrived in Rivendell. Moreover, the fact that his son was given the cognomen "the Old" suggests again that Beorn's descendants also enjoyed longer lifespans than ordinary men.



                  The fact that Beorn seems probably to have died is also significant in another way. In general, the idea of intelligent, speaking animals (be they bears, wargs, ravens, or other) is actually somewhat difficult to reconcile with Tolkien's cosmogony, in which only those races given the Secret Fire by Eru possess free will and souls. Talking animals—both good and evil—crop up repeatedly in The Hobbit though, so there does need to be some place for them. It is sometimes suggested that, like the eagles (the emissaries of Manwë) all the other animals who talk—from Huan the Hound to the thrush who tells Bard of Smaug's weak spot—are actually Ainur in animal shapes. However, this seems not to be a viable explanation for Beorn, if did eventually die of old age.






                  share|improve this answer












                  It is unclear, even to Gandalf (at least as of The Hobbit, before the wizard and Beorn became friends) whether Beorn is fundamentally a man who can change into a bear, or a bear who that can shapeshift into a man. As Gandalf puts it in "Queer Lodgings":




                  Some say that he is a bear
                  descended from the great and ancient bears of
                  the mountains that lived there before the giants
                  came. Others say that he is a man descended
                  from the first men who lived before Smaug or
                  the other dragons came into this part of the
                  world, and before the goblins came into the hills
                  out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the
                  last is the true tale. He is not the sort of person
                  to ask questions of.



                  At any rate he is under no enchantment but
                  his own. He lives in an oak-wood and has a
                  great wooden house; and as a man he keeps
                  cattle and horses which are nearly as
                  marvellous as himself. They work for him and
                  talk to him. He does not eat them; neither does
                  he hunt or eat wild animals. He keeps hives and
                  hives of great fierce bees, and lives most on
                  cream and honey. As a bear he ranges far and
                  wide. I once saw him sitting all alone on the top
                  of the Carrock at night watching the moon
                  sinking towards the Misty Mountains, and I
                  heard him growl in the tongue of bears: ‘The
                  day will come when they will perish and I shall
                  go back!’ That is why I believe he once came
                  from the mountains himself.




                  Although "came from the mountains" is ambiguous, to me this makes it sound as if Beorn himself may have been driven down out of the Misty Mountains when they became inhospitable—not merely that he is descended from men or bears who previously lived up among the heights. The Misty Mountains had been infested with orcs since at least the 2790s, when the War of the Dwarves and Orcs took place. Since the Thorin and Company meet Beorn in T. A. 2961, Beorn seems to have been well over 150 at the time of The Hobbit. That is not beyond the limit of human lifespans in Middle Earth, but it does suggest that (beyond his ability to change shapes), Beorn is not a normal human.



                  On the other hand, we know from The Fellowship of the Ring, "Many Meetings":




                  Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men, and to their land between the Mountains and Mirkwood neither orc nor wolf dared to go.




                  From this is seems likely that Beorn was deceased by the year 3018, when Frodo arrived in Rivendell. Moreover, the fact that his son was given the cognomen "the Old" suggests again that Beorn's descendants also enjoyed longer lifespans than ordinary men.



                  The fact that Beorn seems probably to have died is also significant in another way. In general, the idea of intelligent, speaking animals (be they bears, wargs, ravens, or other) is actually somewhat difficult to reconcile with Tolkien's cosmogony, in which only those races given the Secret Fire by Eru possess free will and souls. Talking animals—both good and evil—crop up repeatedly in The Hobbit though, so there does need to be some place for them. It is sometimes suggested that, like the eagles (the emissaries of Manwë) all the other animals who talk—from Huan the Hound to the thrush who tells Bard of Smaug's weak spot—are actually Ainur in animal shapes. However, this seems not to be a viable explanation for Beorn, if did eventually die of old age.







                  share|improve this answer












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                  answered 1 hour ago









                  Buzz

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