If $Z$ is $sigma(X,Y)$-measurable, is there a measurable $f$ with $Z=f(X,Y)$?











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Let





  • $(Omega_i,mathcal A_i)$ be a measurable space

  • $X:Omega_1toOmega_2$

  • $Z:Omega_1tomathbb R$


It's easy to show that $Z$ is $sigma(X)$-measurable if and only if there is a $mathcal A_2$-measurable $f:Omega_2tomathbb R$ with $$Z=f(X).tag1$$ Now, suppose $Y:Omega_1toOmega_3$. Are we able to show that if $Z$ is $sigma(X,Y)$-measurable, then there is a $mathcal A_2otimesmathcal A_3$-measurable $g:Omega_2timesOmega_3tomathbb R$ with $$Z=g(X,Y)tag2?$$



(By the way: Is it possible to generalize $(1)$ to Banach space valued strongly measurable $Z,f$?)










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    up vote
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    down vote

    favorite












    Let





    • $(Omega_i,mathcal A_i)$ be a measurable space

    • $X:Omega_1toOmega_2$

    • $Z:Omega_1tomathbb R$


    It's easy to show that $Z$ is $sigma(X)$-measurable if and only if there is a $mathcal A_2$-measurable $f:Omega_2tomathbb R$ with $$Z=f(X).tag1$$ Now, suppose $Y:Omega_1toOmega_3$. Are we able to show that if $Z$ is $sigma(X,Y)$-measurable, then there is a $mathcal A_2otimesmathcal A_3$-measurable $g:Omega_2timesOmega_3tomathbb R$ with $$Z=g(X,Y)tag2?$$



    (By the way: Is it possible to generalize $(1)$ to Banach space valued strongly measurable $Z,f$?)










    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite











      Let





      • $(Omega_i,mathcal A_i)$ be a measurable space

      • $X:Omega_1toOmega_2$

      • $Z:Omega_1tomathbb R$


      It's easy to show that $Z$ is $sigma(X)$-measurable if and only if there is a $mathcal A_2$-measurable $f:Omega_2tomathbb R$ with $$Z=f(X).tag1$$ Now, suppose $Y:Omega_1toOmega_3$. Are we able to show that if $Z$ is $sigma(X,Y)$-measurable, then there is a $mathcal A_2otimesmathcal A_3$-measurable $g:Omega_2timesOmega_3tomathbb R$ with $$Z=g(X,Y)tag2?$$



      (By the way: Is it possible to generalize $(1)$ to Banach space valued strongly measurable $Z,f$?)










      share|cite|improve this question













      Let





      • $(Omega_i,mathcal A_i)$ be a measurable space

      • $X:Omega_1toOmega_2$

      • $Z:Omega_1tomathbb R$


      It's easy to show that $Z$ is $sigma(X)$-measurable if and only if there is a $mathcal A_2$-measurable $f:Omega_2tomathbb R$ with $$Z=f(X).tag1$$ Now, suppose $Y:Omega_1toOmega_3$. Are we able to show that if $Z$ is $sigma(X,Y)$-measurable, then there is a $mathcal A_2otimesmathcal A_3$-measurable $g:Omega_2timesOmega_3tomathbb R$ with $$Z=g(X,Y)tag2?$$



      (By the way: Is it possible to generalize $(1)$ to Banach space valued strongly measurable $Z,f$?)







      probability-theory measure-theory measurable-functions






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      asked Nov 16 at 22:11









      0xbadf00d

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          1 Answer
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          If $Z=I_{X^{-1}(A)cap Y^{-1}(B)}$ then $Z=f(X,Y)$ where $f=I_{Atimes B}$. Now ${Cin mathcal B(mathbb R^{2}):I_{{(X,Y)^{-1}}(C)}=f(X,Y) text {for some measurable} f:mathbb R^{2} to mathbb R}$ is a sigma algebra which contains measurable rectangles so it contains all Borel sets in $mathbb R^{2}$. It follow now that the result is true for any simple function $Z$ measurable w.r.t. $sigma (X,Y)$. Hence the same holde for non-negative meaurble functions. If $Z_n=f_n(X,Y)$ for all $n$ and $Z_n to Z$ then $Z=limsup f_n(X,Y)$. Now write $Z$ as $Z^{+}-Z^{-}$ to complete the proof. The same argument works for strongly measurable Banach valued $Z$.






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • My problem with the Banach space case is that there is no $operatorname{lim sup}$.
            – 0xbadf00d
            Nov 17 at 10:49










          • Something is wrong with your definition of your $sigma$-algebra. Why $Cinmathcal B(mathbb R^2)$?
            – 0xbadf00d
            Nov 17 at 10:54










          • You are right. I typed the definition wrongly. Please see the revised answer. @Oxbadf00d
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 17 at 11:36













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          If $Z=I_{X^{-1}(A)cap Y^{-1}(B)}$ then $Z=f(X,Y)$ where $f=I_{Atimes B}$. Now ${Cin mathcal B(mathbb R^{2}):I_{{(X,Y)^{-1}}(C)}=f(X,Y) text {for some measurable} f:mathbb R^{2} to mathbb R}$ is a sigma algebra which contains measurable rectangles so it contains all Borel sets in $mathbb R^{2}$. It follow now that the result is true for any simple function $Z$ measurable w.r.t. $sigma (X,Y)$. Hence the same holde for non-negative meaurble functions. If $Z_n=f_n(X,Y)$ for all $n$ and $Z_n to Z$ then $Z=limsup f_n(X,Y)$. Now write $Z$ as $Z^{+}-Z^{-}$ to complete the proof. The same argument works for strongly measurable Banach valued $Z$.






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • My problem with the Banach space case is that there is no $operatorname{lim sup}$.
            – 0xbadf00d
            Nov 17 at 10:49










          • Something is wrong with your definition of your $sigma$-algebra. Why $Cinmathcal B(mathbb R^2)$?
            – 0xbadf00d
            Nov 17 at 10:54










          • You are right. I typed the definition wrongly. Please see the revised answer. @Oxbadf00d
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 17 at 11:36

















          up vote
          0
          down vote













          If $Z=I_{X^{-1}(A)cap Y^{-1}(B)}$ then $Z=f(X,Y)$ where $f=I_{Atimes B}$. Now ${Cin mathcal B(mathbb R^{2}):I_{{(X,Y)^{-1}}(C)}=f(X,Y) text {for some measurable} f:mathbb R^{2} to mathbb R}$ is a sigma algebra which contains measurable rectangles so it contains all Borel sets in $mathbb R^{2}$. It follow now that the result is true for any simple function $Z$ measurable w.r.t. $sigma (X,Y)$. Hence the same holde for non-negative meaurble functions. If $Z_n=f_n(X,Y)$ for all $n$ and $Z_n to Z$ then $Z=limsup f_n(X,Y)$. Now write $Z$ as $Z^{+}-Z^{-}$ to complete the proof. The same argument works for strongly measurable Banach valued $Z$.






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • My problem with the Banach space case is that there is no $operatorname{lim sup}$.
            – 0xbadf00d
            Nov 17 at 10:49










          • Something is wrong with your definition of your $sigma$-algebra. Why $Cinmathcal B(mathbb R^2)$?
            – 0xbadf00d
            Nov 17 at 10:54










          • You are right. I typed the definition wrongly. Please see the revised answer. @Oxbadf00d
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 17 at 11:36















          up vote
          0
          down vote










          up vote
          0
          down vote









          If $Z=I_{X^{-1}(A)cap Y^{-1}(B)}$ then $Z=f(X,Y)$ where $f=I_{Atimes B}$. Now ${Cin mathcal B(mathbb R^{2}):I_{{(X,Y)^{-1}}(C)}=f(X,Y) text {for some measurable} f:mathbb R^{2} to mathbb R}$ is a sigma algebra which contains measurable rectangles so it contains all Borel sets in $mathbb R^{2}$. It follow now that the result is true for any simple function $Z$ measurable w.r.t. $sigma (X,Y)$. Hence the same holde for non-negative meaurble functions. If $Z_n=f_n(X,Y)$ for all $n$ and $Z_n to Z$ then $Z=limsup f_n(X,Y)$. Now write $Z$ as $Z^{+}-Z^{-}$ to complete the proof. The same argument works for strongly measurable Banach valued $Z$.






          share|cite|improve this answer














          If $Z=I_{X^{-1}(A)cap Y^{-1}(B)}$ then $Z=f(X,Y)$ where $f=I_{Atimes B}$. Now ${Cin mathcal B(mathbb R^{2}):I_{{(X,Y)^{-1}}(C)}=f(X,Y) text {for some measurable} f:mathbb R^{2} to mathbb R}$ is a sigma algebra which contains measurable rectangles so it contains all Borel sets in $mathbb R^{2}$. It follow now that the result is true for any simple function $Z$ measurable w.r.t. $sigma (X,Y)$. Hence the same holde for non-negative meaurble functions. If $Z_n=f_n(X,Y)$ for all $n$ and $Z_n to Z$ then $Z=limsup f_n(X,Y)$. Now write $Z$ as $Z^{+}-Z^{-}$ to complete the proof. The same argument works for strongly measurable Banach valued $Z$.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Nov 17 at 11:36

























          answered Nov 16 at 23:21









          Kavi Rama Murthy

          43.7k31751




          43.7k31751












          • My problem with the Banach space case is that there is no $operatorname{lim sup}$.
            – 0xbadf00d
            Nov 17 at 10:49










          • Something is wrong with your definition of your $sigma$-algebra. Why $Cinmathcal B(mathbb R^2)$?
            – 0xbadf00d
            Nov 17 at 10:54










          • You are right. I typed the definition wrongly. Please see the revised answer. @Oxbadf00d
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 17 at 11:36




















          • My problem with the Banach space case is that there is no $operatorname{lim sup}$.
            – 0xbadf00d
            Nov 17 at 10:49










          • Something is wrong with your definition of your $sigma$-algebra. Why $Cinmathcal B(mathbb R^2)$?
            – 0xbadf00d
            Nov 17 at 10:54










          • You are right. I typed the definition wrongly. Please see the revised answer. @Oxbadf00d
            – Kavi Rama Murthy
            Nov 17 at 11:36


















          My problem with the Banach space case is that there is no $operatorname{lim sup}$.
          – 0xbadf00d
          Nov 17 at 10:49




          My problem with the Banach space case is that there is no $operatorname{lim sup}$.
          – 0xbadf00d
          Nov 17 at 10:49












          Something is wrong with your definition of your $sigma$-algebra. Why $Cinmathcal B(mathbb R^2)$?
          – 0xbadf00d
          Nov 17 at 10:54




          Something is wrong with your definition of your $sigma$-algebra. Why $Cinmathcal B(mathbb R^2)$?
          – 0xbadf00d
          Nov 17 at 10:54












          You are right. I typed the definition wrongly. Please see the revised answer. @Oxbadf00d
          – Kavi Rama Murthy
          Nov 17 at 11:36






          You are right. I typed the definition wrongly. Please see the revised answer. @Oxbadf00d
          – Kavi Rama Murthy
          Nov 17 at 11:36




















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