Can wireless communciation be synchronous?











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I understand that in synchronous communication, the sender and receiver need a common clock. Is it possible that wireless communication be synchronous? Can some common clocking element be there for such purpose?










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    up vote
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    down vote

    favorite
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    I understand that in synchronous communication, the sender and receiver need a common clock. Is it possible that wireless communication be synchronous? Can some common clocking element be there for such purpose?










    share|improve this question
























      up vote
      8
      down vote

      favorite
      2









      up vote
      8
      down vote

      favorite
      2






      2





      I understand that in synchronous communication, the sender and receiver need a common clock. Is it possible that wireless communication be synchronous? Can some common clocking element be there for such purpose?










      share|improve this question













      I understand that in synchronous communication, the sender and receiver need a common clock. Is it possible that wireless communication be synchronous? Can some common clocking element be there for such purpose?







      wireless






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      asked 18 hours ago









      emulatorcat

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          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          13
          down vote



          accepted










          Yes. Kind of, at least.



          As you're coming from a wired background, I'll build the analogy from there:



          Where UART only works, because receiver and transmitter clocks are similar enough so that for a short burst of bits, they don't drift apart, the same applies to wireless digital communications.



          If your symbol rate is low enough, and the receiver knows exactly the symbol rate the transmitter uses, then the receiver can extract the symbols without first running logic to do clock recovery.



          In high-rate, mobile and streaming systems, generally, this can't be assumed: no two oscillators in this universe are exactly the same, and hence, when you transmit many symbols, you must make very sure that the receiver has the same sample clock as the transmitter.



          Now, if you tried to take the equivalent of SPI to the wireless domain:




          • Data signal

          • square wave clock signal


          you'll notice that the square wave clock signal has a really bad spectral shape – it has infinite bandwidth, and even if you accept some "roundening" on the edges, you'd still need about 5 to 7 times the actual data signal bandwidth to transport your square wave.



          Hence, that is generally not done.



          I'm sure earlier wireless comms had some sort of secondary carrier that was used to derive a symbol clock, but I haven't seen that in any modern standards.



          You can either go what I'd call (and this is a term I just invented) "synchronized asynchronous" route:




          • send a preamble of known signal, which allows the receiver to estimate its own rate relative to the rate of the transmitter, and just work from there for the duration of a burst


          or the "continuous clock recovery control loop" way.



          The second one is really done in a lot of different ways, depending on what system you're looking at, and how complex the designers could afford to make the receiver.



          One very typical scheme is that you realize that all digital communications are in essence pulse-shaped.



          Without having the time to go fully into that: You really can't send infinitely short pulses with amplitude +1, -1, -1, +1, -1, +1 ... over a channel of finite bandwidth.



          Hence, you apply a pulse shape, which serves to smooths the transition between these; idea is that still, at the exact symbol times, the values are exactly the symbols you wanted to send, but in between, there's a smooth, bandwidth-limited exchange.



          You'll already recognize this if you've worked with wired buses: You know the eye diagram. The exact same diagram is used wireless communications, though, typically, for a good short-run wired communication, you'd expect the eye to be nearly square, whereas the pulse shaping with a rounder shape is intentional (albeit necessary, too) from the beginning in wireless comms.





          This, very geometrically, implies that at the exact right times, your signal "shape" has extrema, i.e. places where your derivative is 0.



          You can now build a mechanism that looks at the slope of the signal at the times you assume your symbol times to be. If that slope is negative, oh, we're too late, better sample a little earlier, if it's positive, sample a little later. Notice that this isn't the case for all symbol transitions (same-symbol transitions usuall do not have the maximum amplitude at the correct sampling time), but it's the case for most transitions, usually.



          Do some minimal statistics, and you can make this adjustable to a (small) symbol rate error.



          So, we wireless comms folks invest bandwidth that we could be using to transmit information (which is what we're getting paid for) into making the symbol rate synchronizable. It's not a direct equivalent to a "synchronous bus" in the wired world, because aside from a few especially strange systems that I'm sure exist (dear reader, if you know one, let me know in the comments), we'll be sure to avoid having a separate symbol clock carrier. But it's essentially the same idea: having a way of shoving the information about when the symbols should be sampled into the receiver.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 3




            Your "synchronized asynchronous" is clock recovery - ethernet and all sorts of wired protocols have that.
            – pjc50
            16 hours ago






          • 2




            I think your answer needs to address Manchester encoding. That's how it is done; I have never heard of a second carrier for clock.
            – Lundin
            16 hours ago






          • 2




            @Lundin I must admit that I can't think of a good reason to do Manchester encoding instead of properly pulse shaped communications; that just doubles the bandwidth. I don't know any modern standard that does Manchester, would you have a reference for me?
            – Marcus Müller
            12 hours ago










          • Roughly how accurate of a sample clock would you need for a particular bandwidth? I.e. if both systems have a GPS & thus GPS-level time accuracy, would that be sufficient for wifi communications, or is it orders of magnitude too far apart?
            – user2813274
            12 hours ago










          • Wifi comes with its own preambles and hence doesn't need GPS synchro – you'd never build a WiFi receiver that relies on GPS timing instead of the timing recovered from the signal itself.
            – Marcus Müller
            12 hours ago


















          up vote
          5
          down vote














          I understand that in synchronous communication, the sender and
          receiver need a common clock. Is it possible that wireless
          communication be synchronous? Can some common clocking element be
          there for such purpose?




          In regular wired-up comms a common-clock can be achieved without resorting to applying a seperate clock wire. I'm thinking here of Manchester encoding: -



          enter image description here



          Data and clock are combined with an Exclusive-OR gate to produce a single signal that can be decoded without resorting to a seperate clock wire. It's a signal that carries both clock information and data together simultaneously.



          Given that this is now a single (combined) signal, it makes it very suitable to be transmitted as a radio wave (with suitable modulation techniques).






          share|improve this answer






























            up vote
            4
            down vote













            GSM uses carefully-tweaked (tweaked in realtime, in each subscriber handset) 13MHz oscillators, to avoid drifting of the start and stop times of the GSM voice/data packets.



            Thus GSM need not worry about packet collision and retry.



            ======= regarding telemetry from rocket/missile testing



            NASA, and its precursor organizations, developed various "coding" methods, with definitions standardized under the IRIG Inter Range Instrumentation Group. Some of these patterns have long runs of 111111s or 000000000s with no clocking information, and the ground-based phase-lock-loops recover the data just fine ---- without any parallel radio/wireless channel needed for clocks; there is very little timing jitter between a missile and the ground antenna. To handle hundreds of sensors on the missile, all multiplexed into a serial data stream, a special SYNCH_WORD pattern is inserted once a frame.



            To function, such a downlink has this behavior



            1) sweep the frequency span expected to cover the unavoidable Doppler shifts, while testing each RF carrier for identifying patterns (the expected bit rate)



            2) once the proper bit rate is found, then pursue a phase-locking to the bit-transitions; this is slow in most cases because the PLL has NARROW bandwidth to avoid easy breaking phase-lock due to noise bursts; or the initial lock can be done broadband, and then the loop bandwidth severely tightened down, to where the Doppler shifts are just barely accommodated (this tracking of Doppler may require a higher-order control loop)



            3) once we have a bit-lock, the telemetry system needs to find "start of frame", so the first sensor's data and the 2nd sensor's data, etc, can be correctly extracted from the serial bit stream; this may take a while, because the telemetry system MUST BE CERTAIN, and thus tests the bit stream for the expected SPECIAL bit-pattern over and over. Incorrect frame lock means all the data is useless.



            Note the various "synchronous" approaches:



            a) the telemetry system picks the correct RF channel



            b) the telemetry system locks to, thus becoming synchronous with, the bit rate



            c) the telemetry system locks to, thus becoming synchronous with, the start of Frame



            As the PLUTO probe transmitted data to earth, after passing PLUTO and grabbing many photos and other sensor data, the downlink data rate was about 100 bits per second, with the RF carrier in the 8GHz range.



            As the earth rotated, the 3 NASA DeepSpace 70 meter antennas each went thru this process of "acquisition" and then received that 100 bit datastream for the next 8 hours, all occurring synchronously.



            The NASA systems were locked: RF, bit, frame.



            ============= history ================



            Why was IRIG defined? because FM telemetry needs about 20--25 dB SignalNoiseRatio for clean data to plot on those chart-recorders.



            Whereas digital data (even without error-correction) works well at 10dB (or 7dB, depending on how your bandwidth is defined) SNR. At about 0.1% error rate.



            With finite transmitter RF power on a missile-under-test, the aerospace projects literally could not get telemetry from missiles that exited the atmostphere, unless just a few SLOW sensors were used. Unacceptable.



            Dropping the SNR from 27dB to 7dB, a 20dB difference, and given the Range^2 effect of RF energy dispersion, the aerospace companies suddenly had 10X the range, even without error-detect-correct.



            Importance of telemetry: the Soviets used 320,000 sensors on the final (still it exploded!) launch of the N1. Prior 3 launches only used 700 sensors.






            share|improve this answer























            • That implies it could take a long time to lock, and would be vulnerable do unlocking in the event of sudden doppler - was it all done "live", or was some of this done "retroactively" by recording a stream and then re-parsing it until correct framing was achieved?
              – pjc50
              12 hours ago










            • @pjc50: A sudden doppler of a deep space probe is probably a catastrophic event.
              – Joshua
              8 hours ago


















            up vote
            2
            down vote













            Yes, it is done by merging the clock and payload data signal into one (wireless) channel.



            Examples are Manchester code or Pulse Position Modulation. In both cases (starting the) clock recovery at receiver side (e.g. by synchronizing a PLL) is often simplified by using a distinct preamble in the header of a data frame.



            One application where wireless PPM is used for example is Secondary surveillance Radar (ADS-B etc.).

            An oscillogram of a ADS-B frame is shown here.






            share|improve this answer






























              up vote
              2
              down vote













              Normally systems which recover the clock from a single channel are called "asynchronous", like UARTs, while "synchronous" systems require multiple channels. So I disagree with the claims that using Manchester encoding or similar is "synchronous".



              In radio systems, even if you use multiple channels, it is difficult to ensure that the signals arrive at the same time, or even with a reliable skew, because there may be diffraction or multipath effects involved. Doppler effect may also skew your results.



              GSM systems are time-slot based (TDMA), but as far as I understand it the central clock is just used to control which mobile equipment is allowed to transmit in any one timeslot - it does not determine bit boundaries.






              share|improve this answer





















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                5 Answers
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                active

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                5 Answers
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                active

                oldest

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                active

                oldest

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                active

                oldest

                votes








                up vote
                13
                down vote



                accepted










                Yes. Kind of, at least.



                As you're coming from a wired background, I'll build the analogy from there:



                Where UART only works, because receiver and transmitter clocks are similar enough so that for a short burst of bits, they don't drift apart, the same applies to wireless digital communications.



                If your symbol rate is low enough, and the receiver knows exactly the symbol rate the transmitter uses, then the receiver can extract the symbols without first running logic to do clock recovery.



                In high-rate, mobile and streaming systems, generally, this can't be assumed: no two oscillators in this universe are exactly the same, and hence, when you transmit many symbols, you must make very sure that the receiver has the same sample clock as the transmitter.



                Now, if you tried to take the equivalent of SPI to the wireless domain:




                • Data signal

                • square wave clock signal


                you'll notice that the square wave clock signal has a really bad spectral shape – it has infinite bandwidth, and even if you accept some "roundening" on the edges, you'd still need about 5 to 7 times the actual data signal bandwidth to transport your square wave.



                Hence, that is generally not done.



                I'm sure earlier wireless comms had some sort of secondary carrier that was used to derive a symbol clock, but I haven't seen that in any modern standards.



                You can either go what I'd call (and this is a term I just invented) "synchronized asynchronous" route:




                • send a preamble of known signal, which allows the receiver to estimate its own rate relative to the rate of the transmitter, and just work from there for the duration of a burst


                or the "continuous clock recovery control loop" way.



                The second one is really done in a lot of different ways, depending on what system you're looking at, and how complex the designers could afford to make the receiver.



                One very typical scheme is that you realize that all digital communications are in essence pulse-shaped.



                Without having the time to go fully into that: You really can't send infinitely short pulses with amplitude +1, -1, -1, +1, -1, +1 ... over a channel of finite bandwidth.



                Hence, you apply a pulse shape, which serves to smooths the transition between these; idea is that still, at the exact symbol times, the values are exactly the symbols you wanted to send, but in between, there's a smooth, bandwidth-limited exchange.



                You'll already recognize this if you've worked with wired buses: You know the eye diagram. The exact same diagram is used wireless communications, though, typically, for a good short-run wired communication, you'd expect the eye to be nearly square, whereas the pulse shaping with a rounder shape is intentional (albeit necessary, too) from the beginning in wireless comms.





                This, very geometrically, implies that at the exact right times, your signal "shape" has extrema, i.e. places where your derivative is 0.



                You can now build a mechanism that looks at the slope of the signal at the times you assume your symbol times to be. If that slope is negative, oh, we're too late, better sample a little earlier, if it's positive, sample a little later. Notice that this isn't the case for all symbol transitions (same-symbol transitions usuall do not have the maximum amplitude at the correct sampling time), but it's the case for most transitions, usually.



                Do some minimal statistics, and you can make this adjustable to a (small) symbol rate error.



                So, we wireless comms folks invest bandwidth that we could be using to transmit information (which is what we're getting paid for) into making the symbol rate synchronizable. It's not a direct equivalent to a "synchronous bus" in the wired world, because aside from a few especially strange systems that I'm sure exist (dear reader, if you know one, let me know in the comments), we'll be sure to avoid having a separate symbol clock carrier. But it's essentially the same idea: having a way of shoving the information about when the symbols should be sampled into the receiver.






                share|improve this answer



















                • 3




                  Your "synchronized asynchronous" is clock recovery - ethernet and all sorts of wired protocols have that.
                  – pjc50
                  16 hours ago






                • 2




                  I think your answer needs to address Manchester encoding. That's how it is done; I have never heard of a second carrier for clock.
                  – Lundin
                  16 hours ago






                • 2




                  @Lundin I must admit that I can't think of a good reason to do Manchester encoding instead of properly pulse shaped communications; that just doubles the bandwidth. I don't know any modern standard that does Manchester, would you have a reference for me?
                  – Marcus Müller
                  12 hours ago










                • Roughly how accurate of a sample clock would you need for a particular bandwidth? I.e. if both systems have a GPS & thus GPS-level time accuracy, would that be sufficient for wifi communications, or is it orders of magnitude too far apart?
                  – user2813274
                  12 hours ago










                • Wifi comes with its own preambles and hence doesn't need GPS synchro – you'd never build a WiFi receiver that relies on GPS timing instead of the timing recovered from the signal itself.
                  – Marcus Müller
                  12 hours ago















                up vote
                13
                down vote



                accepted










                Yes. Kind of, at least.



                As you're coming from a wired background, I'll build the analogy from there:



                Where UART only works, because receiver and transmitter clocks are similar enough so that for a short burst of bits, they don't drift apart, the same applies to wireless digital communications.



                If your symbol rate is low enough, and the receiver knows exactly the symbol rate the transmitter uses, then the receiver can extract the symbols without first running logic to do clock recovery.



                In high-rate, mobile and streaming systems, generally, this can't be assumed: no two oscillators in this universe are exactly the same, and hence, when you transmit many symbols, you must make very sure that the receiver has the same sample clock as the transmitter.



                Now, if you tried to take the equivalent of SPI to the wireless domain:




                • Data signal

                • square wave clock signal


                you'll notice that the square wave clock signal has a really bad spectral shape – it has infinite bandwidth, and even if you accept some "roundening" on the edges, you'd still need about 5 to 7 times the actual data signal bandwidth to transport your square wave.



                Hence, that is generally not done.



                I'm sure earlier wireless comms had some sort of secondary carrier that was used to derive a symbol clock, but I haven't seen that in any modern standards.



                You can either go what I'd call (and this is a term I just invented) "synchronized asynchronous" route:




                • send a preamble of known signal, which allows the receiver to estimate its own rate relative to the rate of the transmitter, and just work from there for the duration of a burst


                or the "continuous clock recovery control loop" way.



                The second one is really done in a lot of different ways, depending on what system you're looking at, and how complex the designers could afford to make the receiver.



                One very typical scheme is that you realize that all digital communications are in essence pulse-shaped.



                Without having the time to go fully into that: You really can't send infinitely short pulses with amplitude +1, -1, -1, +1, -1, +1 ... over a channel of finite bandwidth.



                Hence, you apply a pulse shape, which serves to smooths the transition between these; idea is that still, at the exact symbol times, the values are exactly the symbols you wanted to send, but in between, there's a smooth, bandwidth-limited exchange.



                You'll already recognize this if you've worked with wired buses: You know the eye diagram. The exact same diagram is used wireless communications, though, typically, for a good short-run wired communication, you'd expect the eye to be nearly square, whereas the pulse shaping with a rounder shape is intentional (albeit necessary, too) from the beginning in wireless comms.





                This, very geometrically, implies that at the exact right times, your signal "shape" has extrema, i.e. places where your derivative is 0.



                You can now build a mechanism that looks at the slope of the signal at the times you assume your symbol times to be. If that slope is negative, oh, we're too late, better sample a little earlier, if it's positive, sample a little later. Notice that this isn't the case for all symbol transitions (same-symbol transitions usuall do not have the maximum amplitude at the correct sampling time), but it's the case for most transitions, usually.



                Do some minimal statistics, and you can make this adjustable to a (small) symbol rate error.



                So, we wireless comms folks invest bandwidth that we could be using to transmit information (which is what we're getting paid for) into making the symbol rate synchronizable. It's not a direct equivalent to a "synchronous bus" in the wired world, because aside from a few especially strange systems that I'm sure exist (dear reader, if you know one, let me know in the comments), we'll be sure to avoid having a separate symbol clock carrier. But it's essentially the same idea: having a way of shoving the information about when the symbols should be sampled into the receiver.






                share|improve this answer



















                • 3




                  Your "synchronized asynchronous" is clock recovery - ethernet and all sorts of wired protocols have that.
                  – pjc50
                  16 hours ago






                • 2




                  I think your answer needs to address Manchester encoding. That's how it is done; I have never heard of a second carrier for clock.
                  – Lundin
                  16 hours ago






                • 2




                  @Lundin I must admit that I can't think of a good reason to do Manchester encoding instead of properly pulse shaped communications; that just doubles the bandwidth. I don't know any modern standard that does Manchester, would you have a reference for me?
                  – Marcus Müller
                  12 hours ago










                • Roughly how accurate of a sample clock would you need for a particular bandwidth? I.e. if both systems have a GPS & thus GPS-level time accuracy, would that be sufficient for wifi communications, or is it orders of magnitude too far apart?
                  – user2813274
                  12 hours ago










                • Wifi comes with its own preambles and hence doesn't need GPS synchro – you'd never build a WiFi receiver that relies on GPS timing instead of the timing recovered from the signal itself.
                  – Marcus Müller
                  12 hours ago













                up vote
                13
                down vote



                accepted







                up vote
                13
                down vote



                accepted






                Yes. Kind of, at least.



                As you're coming from a wired background, I'll build the analogy from there:



                Where UART only works, because receiver and transmitter clocks are similar enough so that for a short burst of bits, they don't drift apart, the same applies to wireless digital communications.



                If your symbol rate is low enough, and the receiver knows exactly the symbol rate the transmitter uses, then the receiver can extract the symbols without first running logic to do clock recovery.



                In high-rate, mobile and streaming systems, generally, this can't be assumed: no two oscillators in this universe are exactly the same, and hence, when you transmit many symbols, you must make very sure that the receiver has the same sample clock as the transmitter.



                Now, if you tried to take the equivalent of SPI to the wireless domain:




                • Data signal

                • square wave clock signal


                you'll notice that the square wave clock signal has a really bad spectral shape – it has infinite bandwidth, and even if you accept some "roundening" on the edges, you'd still need about 5 to 7 times the actual data signal bandwidth to transport your square wave.



                Hence, that is generally not done.



                I'm sure earlier wireless comms had some sort of secondary carrier that was used to derive a symbol clock, but I haven't seen that in any modern standards.



                You can either go what I'd call (and this is a term I just invented) "synchronized asynchronous" route:




                • send a preamble of known signal, which allows the receiver to estimate its own rate relative to the rate of the transmitter, and just work from there for the duration of a burst


                or the "continuous clock recovery control loop" way.



                The second one is really done in a lot of different ways, depending on what system you're looking at, and how complex the designers could afford to make the receiver.



                One very typical scheme is that you realize that all digital communications are in essence pulse-shaped.



                Without having the time to go fully into that: You really can't send infinitely short pulses with amplitude +1, -1, -1, +1, -1, +1 ... over a channel of finite bandwidth.



                Hence, you apply a pulse shape, which serves to smooths the transition between these; idea is that still, at the exact symbol times, the values are exactly the symbols you wanted to send, but in between, there's a smooth, bandwidth-limited exchange.



                You'll already recognize this if you've worked with wired buses: You know the eye diagram. The exact same diagram is used wireless communications, though, typically, for a good short-run wired communication, you'd expect the eye to be nearly square, whereas the pulse shaping with a rounder shape is intentional (albeit necessary, too) from the beginning in wireless comms.





                This, very geometrically, implies that at the exact right times, your signal "shape" has extrema, i.e. places where your derivative is 0.



                You can now build a mechanism that looks at the slope of the signal at the times you assume your symbol times to be. If that slope is negative, oh, we're too late, better sample a little earlier, if it's positive, sample a little later. Notice that this isn't the case for all symbol transitions (same-symbol transitions usuall do not have the maximum amplitude at the correct sampling time), but it's the case for most transitions, usually.



                Do some minimal statistics, and you can make this adjustable to a (small) symbol rate error.



                So, we wireless comms folks invest bandwidth that we could be using to transmit information (which is what we're getting paid for) into making the symbol rate synchronizable. It's not a direct equivalent to a "synchronous bus" in the wired world, because aside from a few especially strange systems that I'm sure exist (dear reader, if you know one, let me know in the comments), we'll be sure to avoid having a separate symbol clock carrier. But it's essentially the same idea: having a way of shoving the information about when the symbols should be sampled into the receiver.






                share|improve this answer














                Yes. Kind of, at least.



                As you're coming from a wired background, I'll build the analogy from there:



                Where UART only works, because receiver and transmitter clocks are similar enough so that for a short burst of bits, they don't drift apart, the same applies to wireless digital communications.



                If your symbol rate is low enough, and the receiver knows exactly the symbol rate the transmitter uses, then the receiver can extract the symbols without first running logic to do clock recovery.



                In high-rate, mobile and streaming systems, generally, this can't be assumed: no two oscillators in this universe are exactly the same, and hence, when you transmit many symbols, you must make very sure that the receiver has the same sample clock as the transmitter.



                Now, if you tried to take the equivalent of SPI to the wireless domain:




                • Data signal

                • square wave clock signal


                you'll notice that the square wave clock signal has a really bad spectral shape – it has infinite bandwidth, and even if you accept some "roundening" on the edges, you'd still need about 5 to 7 times the actual data signal bandwidth to transport your square wave.



                Hence, that is generally not done.



                I'm sure earlier wireless comms had some sort of secondary carrier that was used to derive a symbol clock, but I haven't seen that in any modern standards.



                You can either go what I'd call (and this is a term I just invented) "synchronized asynchronous" route:




                • send a preamble of known signal, which allows the receiver to estimate its own rate relative to the rate of the transmitter, and just work from there for the duration of a burst


                or the "continuous clock recovery control loop" way.



                The second one is really done in a lot of different ways, depending on what system you're looking at, and how complex the designers could afford to make the receiver.



                One very typical scheme is that you realize that all digital communications are in essence pulse-shaped.



                Without having the time to go fully into that: You really can't send infinitely short pulses with amplitude +1, -1, -1, +1, -1, +1 ... over a channel of finite bandwidth.



                Hence, you apply a pulse shape, which serves to smooths the transition between these; idea is that still, at the exact symbol times, the values are exactly the symbols you wanted to send, but in between, there's a smooth, bandwidth-limited exchange.



                You'll already recognize this if you've worked with wired buses: You know the eye diagram. The exact same diagram is used wireless communications, though, typically, for a good short-run wired communication, you'd expect the eye to be nearly square, whereas the pulse shaping with a rounder shape is intentional (albeit necessary, too) from the beginning in wireless comms.





                This, very geometrically, implies that at the exact right times, your signal "shape" has extrema, i.e. places where your derivative is 0.



                You can now build a mechanism that looks at the slope of the signal at the times you assume your symbol times to be. If that slope is negative, oh, we're too late, better sample a little earlier, if it's positive, sample a little later. Notice that this isn't the case for all symbol transitions (same-symbol transitions usuall do not have the maximum amplitude at the correct sampling time), but it's the case for most transitions, usually.



                Do some minimal statistics, and you can make this adjustable to a (small) symbol rate error.



                So, we wireless comms folks invest bandwidth that we could be using to transmit information (which is what we're getting paid for) into making the symbol rate synchronizable. It's not a direct equivalent to a "synchronous bus" in the wired world, because aside from a few especially strange systems that I'm sure exist (dear reader, if you know one, let me know in the comments), we'll be sure to avoid having a separate symbol clock carrier. But it's essentially the same idea: having a way of shoving the information about when the symbols should be sampled into the receiver.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 18 hours ago

























                answered 18 hours ago









                Marcus Müller

                31.2k35793




                31.2k35793








                • 3




                  Your "synchronized asynchronous" is clock recovery - ethernet and all sorts of wired protocols have that.
                  – pjc50
                  16 hours ago






                • 2




                  I think your answer needs to address Manchester encoding. That's how it is done; I have never heard of a second carrier for clock.
                  – Lundin
                  16 hours ago






                • 2




                  @Lundin I must admit that I can't think of a good reason to do Manchester encoding instead of properly pulse shaped communications; that just doubles the bandwidth. I don't know any modern standard that does Manchester, would you have a reference for me?
                  – Marcus Müller
                  12 hours ago










                • Roughly how accurate of a sample clock would you need for a particular bandwidth? I.e. if both systems have a GPS & thus GPS-level time accuracy, would that be sufficient for wifi communications, or is it orders of magnitude too far apart?
                  – user2813274
                  12 hours ago










                • Wifi comes with its own preambles and hence doesn't need GPS synchro – you'd never build a WiFi receiver that relies on GPS timing instead of the timing recovered from the signal itself.
                  – Marcus Müller
                  12 hours ago














                • 3




                  Your "synchronized asynchronous" is clock recovery - ethernet and all sorts of wired protocols have that.
                  – pjc50
                  16 hours ago






                • 2




                  I think your answer needs to address Manchester encoding. That's how it is done; I have never heard of a second carrier for clock.
                  – Lundin
                  16 hours ago






                • 2




                  @Lundin I must admit that I can't think of a good reason to do Manchester encoding instead of properly pulse shaped communications; that just doubles the bandwidth. I don't know any modern standard that does Manchester, would you have a reference for me?
                  – Marcus Müller
                  12 hours ago










                • Roughly how accurate of a sample clock would you need for a particular bandwidth? I.e. if both systems have a GPS & thus GPS-level time accuracy, would that be sufficient for wifi communications, or is it orders of magnitude too far apart?
                  – user2813274
                  12 hours ago










                • Wifi comes with its own preambles and hence doesn't need GPS synchro – you'd never build a WiFi receiver that relies on GPS timing instead of the timing recovered from the signal itself.
                  – Marcus Müller
                  12 hours ago








                3




                3




                Your "synchronized asynchronous" is clock recovery - ethernet and all sorts of wired protocols have that.
                – pjc50
                16 hours ago




                Your "synchronized asynchronous" is clock recovery - ethernet and all sorts of wired protocols have that.
                – pjc50
                16 hours ago




                2




                2




                I think your answer needs to address Manchester encoding. That's how it is done; I have never heard of a second carrier for clock.
                – Lundin
                16 hours ago




                I think your answer needs to address Manchester encoding. That's how it is done; I have never heard of a second carrier for clock.
                – Lundin
                16 hours ago




                2




                2




                @Lundin I must admit that I can't think of a good reason to do Manchester encoding instead of properly pulse shaped communications; that just doubles the bandwidth. I don't know any modern standard that does Manchester, would you have a reference for me?
                – Marcus Müller
                12 hours ago




                @Lundin I must admit that I can't think of a good reason to do Manchester encoding instead of properly pulse shaped communications; that just doubles the bandwidth. I don't know any modern standard that does Manchester, would you have a reference for me?
                – Marcus Müller
                12 hours ago












                Roughly how accurate of a sample clock would you need for a particular bandwidth? I.e. if both systems have a GPS & thus GPS-level time accuracy, would that be sufficient for wifi communications, or is it orders of magnitude too far apart?
                – user2813274
                12 hours ago




                Roughly how accurate of a sample clock would you need for a particular bandwidth? I.e. if both systems have a GPS & thus GPS-level time accuracy, would that be sufficient for wifi communications, or is it orders of magnitude too far apart?
                – user2813274
                12 hours ago












                Wifi comes with its own preambles and hence doesn't need GPS synchro – you'd never build a WiFi receiver that relies on GPS timing instead of the timing recovered from the signal itself.
                – Marcus Müller
                12 hours ago




                Wifi comes with its own preambles and hence doesn't need GPS synchro – you'd never build a WiFi receiver that relies on GPS timing instead of the timing recovered from the signal itself.
                – Marcus Müller
                12 hours ago












                up vote
                5
                down vote














                I understand that in synchronous communication, the sender and
                receiver need a common clock. Is it possible that wireless
                communication be synchronous? Can some common clocking element be
                there for such purpose?




                In regular wired-up comms a common-clock can be achieved without resorting to applying a seperate clock wire. I'm thinking here of Manchester encoding: -



                enter image description here



                Data and clock are combined with an Exclusive-OR gate to produce a single signal that can be decoded without resorting to a seperate clock wire. It's a signal that carries both clock information and data together simultaneously.



                Given that this is now a single (combined) signal, it makes it very suitable to be transmitted as a radio wave (with suitable modulation techniques).






                share|improve this answer



























                  up vote
                  5
                  down vote














                  I understand that in synchronous communication, the sender and
                  receiver need a common clock. Is it possible that wireless
                  communication be synchronous? Can some common clocking element be
                  there for such purpose?




                  In regular wired-up comms a common-clock can be achieved without resorting to applying a seperate clock wire. I'm thinking here of Manchester encoding: -



                  enter image description here



                  Data and clock are combined with an Exclusive-OR gate to produce a single signal that can be decoded without resorting to a seperate clock wire. It's a signal that carries both clock information and data together simultaneously.



                  Given that this is now a single (combined) signal, it makes it very suitable to be transmitted as a radio wave (with suitable modulation techniques).






                  share|improve this answer

























                    up vote
                    5
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    5
                    down vote










                    I understand that in synchronous communication, the sender and
                    receiver need a common clock. Is it possible that wireless
                    communication be synchronous? Can some common clocking element be
                    there for such purpose?




                    In regular wired-up comms a common-clock can be achieved without resorting to applying a seperate clock wire. I'm thinking here of Manchester encoding: -



                    enter image description here



                    Data and clock are combined with an Exclusive-OR gate to produce a single signal that can be decoded without resorting to a seperate clock wire. It's a signal that carries both clock information and data together simultaneously.



                    Given that this is now a single (combined) signal, it makes it very suitable to be transmitted as a radio wave (with suitable modulation techniques).






                    share|improve this answer















                    I understand that in synchronous communication, the sender and
                    receiver need a common clock. Is it possible that wireless
                    communication be synchronous? Can some common clocking element be
                    there for such purpose?




                    In regular wired-up comms a common-clock can be achieved without resorting to applying a seperate clock wire. I'm thinking here of Manchester encoding: -



                    enter image description here



                    Data and clock are combined with an Exclusive-OR gate to produce a single signal that can be decoded without resorting to a seperate clock wire. It's a signal that carries both clock information and data together simultaneously.



                    Given that this is now a single (combined) signal, it makes it very suitable to be transmitted as a radio wave (with suitable modulation techniques).







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 7 hours ago

























                    answered 18 hours ago









                    Andy aka

                    238k10173405




                    238k10173405






















                        up vote
                        4
                        down vote













                        GSM uses carefully-tweaked (tweaked in realtime, in each subscriber handset) 13MHz oscillators, to avoid drifting of the start and stop times of the GSM voice/data packets.



                        Thus GSM need not worry about packet collision and retry.



                        ======= regarding telemetry from rocket/missile testing



                        NASA, and its precursor organizations, developed various "coding" methods, with definitions standardized under the IRIG Inter Range Instrumentation Group. Some of these patterns have long runs of 111111s or 000000000s with no clocking information, and the ground-based phase-lock-loops recover the data just fine ---- without any parallel radio/wireless channel needed for clocks; there is very little timing jitter between a missile and the ground antenna. To handle hundreds of sensors on the missile, all multiplexed into a serial data stream, a special SYNCH_WORD pattern is inserted once a frame.



                        To function, such a downlink has this behavior



                        1) sweep the frequency span expected to cover the unavoidable Doppler shifts, while testing each RF carrier for identifying patterns (the expected bit rate)



                        2) once the proper bit rate is found, then pursue a phase-locking to the bit-transitions; this is slow in most cases because the PLL has NARROW bandwidth to avoid easy breaking phase-lock due to noise bursts; or the initial lock can be done broadband, and then the loop bandwidth severely tightened down, to where the Doppler shifts are just barely accommodated (this tracking of Doppler may require a higher-order control loop)



                        3) once we have a bit-lock, the telemetry system needs to find "start of frame", so the first sensor's data and the 2nd sensor's data, etc, can be correctly extracted from the serial bit stream; this may take a while, because the telemetry system MUST BE CERTAIN, and thus tests the bit stream for the expected SPECIAL bit-pattern over and over. Incorrect frame lock means all the data is useless.



                        Note the various "synchronous" approaches:



                        a) the telemetry system picks the correct RF channel



                        b) the telemetry system locks to, thus becoming synchronous with, the bit rate



                        c) the telemetry system locks to, thus becoming synchronous with, the start of Frame



                        As the PLUTO probe transmitted data to earth, after passing PLUTO and grabbing many photos and other sensor data, the downlink data rate was about 100 bits per second, with the RF carrier in the 8GHz range.



                        As the earth rotated, the 3 NASA DeepSpace 70 meter antennas each went thru this process of "acquisition" and then received that 100 bit datastream for the next 8 hours, all occurring synchronously.



                        The NASA systems were locked: RF, bit, frame.



                        ============= history ================



                        Why was IRIG defined? because FM telemetry needs about 20--25 dB SignalNoiseRatio for clean data to plot on those chart-recorders.



                        Whereas digital data (even without error-correction) works well at 10dB (or 7dB, depending on how your bandwidth is defined) SNR. At about 0.1% error rate.



                        With finite transmitter RF power on a missile-under-test, the aerospace projects literally could not get telemetry from missiles that exited the atmostphere, unless just a few SLOW sensors were used. Unacceptable.



                        Dropping the SNR from 27dB to 7dB, a 20dB difference, and given the Range^2 effect of RF energy dispersion, the aerospace companies suddenly had 10X the range, even without error-detect-correct.



                        Importance of telemetry: the Soviets used 320,000 sensors on the final (still it exploded!) launch of the N1. Prior 3 launches only used 700 sensors.






                        share|improve this answer























                        • That implies it could take a long time to lock, and would be vulnerable do unlocking in the event of sudden doppler - was it all done "live", or was some of this done "retroactively" by recording a stream and then re-parsing it until correct framing was achieved?
                          – pjc50
                          12 hours ago










                        • @pjc50: A sudden doppler of a deep space probe is probably a catastrophic event.
                          – Joshua
                          8 hours ago















                        up vote
                        4
                        down vote













                        GSM uses carefully-tweaked (tweaked in realtime, in each subscriber handset) 13MHz oscillators, to avoid drifting of the start and stop times of the GSM voice/data packets.



                        Thus GSM need not worry about packet collision and retry.



                        ======= regarding telemetry from rocket/missile testing



                        NASA, and its precursor organizations, developed various "coding" methods, with definitions standardized under the IRIG Inter Range Instrumentation Group. Some of these patterns have long runs of 111111s or 000000000s with no clocking information, and the ground-based phase-lock-loops recover the data just fine ---- without any parallel radio/wireless channel needed for clocks; there is very little timing jitter between a missile and the ground antenna. To handle hundreds of sensors on the missile, all multiplexed into a serial data stream, a special SYNCH_WORD pattern is inserted once a frame.



                        To function, such a downlink has this behavior



                        1) sweep the frequency span expected to cover the unavoidable Doppler shifts, while testing each RF carrier for identifying patterns (the expected bit rate)



                        2) once the proper bit rate is found, then pursue a phase-locking to the bit-transitions; this is slow in most cases because the PLL has NARROW bandwidth to avoid easy breaking phase-lock due to noise bursts; or the initial lock can be done broadband, and then the loop bandwidth severely tightened down, to where the Doppler shifts are just barely accommodated (this tracking of Doppler may require a higher-order control loop)



                        3) once we have a bit-lock, the telemetry system needs to find "start of frame", so the first sensor's data and the 2nd sensor's data, etc, can be correctly extracted from the serial bit stream; this may take a while, because the telemetry system MUST BE CERTAIN, and thus tests the bit stream for the expected SPECIAL bit-pattern over and over. Incorrect frame lock means all the data is useless.



                        Note the various "synchronous" approaches:



                        a) the telemetry system picks the correct RF channel



                        b) the telemetry system locks to, thus becoming synchronous with, the bit rate



                        c) the telemetry system locks to, thus becoming synchronous with, the start of Frame



                        As the PLUTO probe transmitted data to earth, after passing PLUTO and grabbing many photos and other sensor data, the downlink data rate was about 100 bits per second, with the RF carrier in the 8GHz range.



                        As the earth rotated, the 3 NASA DeepSpace 70 meter antennas each went thru this process of "acquisition" and then received that 100 bit datastream for the next 8 hours, all occurring synchronously.



                        The NASA systems were locked: RF, bit, frame.



                        ============= history ================



                        Why was IRIG defined? because FM telemetry needs about 20--25 dB SignalNoiseRatio for clean data to plot on those chart-recorders.



                        Whereas digital data (even without error-correction) works well at 10dB (or 7dB, depending on how your bandwidth is defined) SNR. At about 0.1% error rate.



                        With finite transmitter RF power on a missile-under-test, the aerospace projects literally could not get telemetry from missiles that exited the atmostphere, unless just a few SLOW sensors were used. Unacceptable.



                        Dropping the SNR from 27dB to 7dB, a 20dB difference, and given the Range^2 effect of RF energy dispersion, the aerospace companies suddenly had 10X the range, even without error-detect-correct.



                        Importance of telemetry: the Soviets used 320,000 sensors on the final (still it exploded!) launch of the N1. Prior 3 launches only used 700 sensors.






                        share|improve this answer























                        • That implies it could take a long time to lock, and would be vulnerable do unlocking in the event of sudden doppler - was it all done "live", or was some of this done "retroactively" by recording a stream and then re-parsing it until correct framing was achieved?
                          – pjc50
                          12 hours ago










                        • @pjc50: A sudden doppler of a deep space probe is probably a catastrophic event.
                          – Joshua
                          8 hours ago













                        up vote
                        4
                        down vote










                        up vote
                        4
                        down vote









                        GSM uses carefully-tweaked (tweaked in realtime, in each subscriber handset) 13MHz oscillators, to avoid drifting of the start and stop times of the GSM voice/data packets.



                        Thus GSM need not worry about packet collision and retry.



                        ======= regarding telemetry from rocket/missile testing



                        NASA, and its precursor organizations, developed various "coding" methods, with definitions standardized under the IRIG Inter Range Instrumentation Group. Some of these patterns have long runs of 111111s or 000000000s with no clocking information, and the ground-based phase-lock-loops recover the data just fine ---- without any parallel radio/wireless channel needed for clocks; there is very little timing jitter between a missile and the ground antenna. To handle hundreds of sensors on the missile, all multiplexed into a serial data stream, a special SYNCH_WORD pattern is inserted once a frame.



                        To function, such a downlink has this behavior



                        1) sweep the frequency span expected to cover the unavoidable Doppler shifts, while testing each RF carrier for identifying patterns (the expected bit rate)



                        2) once the proper bit rate is found, then pursue a phase-locking to the bit-transitions; this is slow in most cases because the PLL has NARROW bandwidth to avoid easy breaking phase-lock due to noise bursts; or the initial lock can be done broadband, and then the loop bandwidth severely tightened down, to where the Doppler shifts are just barely accommodated (this tracking of Doppler may require a higher-order control loop)



                        3) once we have a bit-lock, the telemetry system needs to find "start of frame", so the first sensor's data and the 2nd sensor's data, etc, can be correctly extracted from the serial bit stream; this may take a while, because the telemetry system MUST BE CERTAIN, and thus tests the bit stream for the expected SPECIAL bit-pattern over and over. Incorrect frame lock means all the data is useless.



                        Note the various "synchronous" approaches:



                        a) the telemetry system picks the correct RF channel



                        b) the telemetry system locks to, thus becoming synchronous with, the bit rate



                        c) the telemetry system locks to, thus becoming synchronous with, the start of Frame



                        As the PLUTO probe transmitted data to earth, after passing PLUTO and grabbing many photos and other sensor data, the downlink data rate was about 100 bits per second, with the RF carrier in the 8GHz range.



                        As the earth rotated, the 3 NASA DeepSpace 70 meter antennas each went thru this process of "acquisition" and then received that 100 bit datastream for the next 8 hours, all occurring synchronously.



                        The NASA systems were locked: RF, bit, frame.



                        ============= history ================



                        Why was IRIG defined? because FM telemetry needs about 20--25 dB SignalNoiseRatio for clean data to plot on those chart-recorders.



                        Whereas digital data (even without error-correction) works well at 10dB (or 7dB, depending on how your bandwidth is defined) SNR. At about 0.1% error rate.



                        With finite transmitter RF power on a missile-under-test, the aerospace projects literally could not get telemetry from missiles that exited the atmostphere, unless just a few SLOW sensors were used. Unacceptable.



                        Dropping the SNR from 27dB to 7dB, a 20dB difference, and given the Range^2 effect of RF energy dispersion, the aerospace companies suddenly had 10X the range, even without error-detect-correct.



                        Importance of telemetry: the Soviets used 320,000 sensors on the final (still it exploded!) launch of the N1. Prior 3 launches only used 700 sensors.






                        share|improve this answer














                        GSM uses carefully-tweaked (tweaked in realtime, in each subscriber handset) 13MHz oscillators, to avoid drifting of the start and stop times of the GSM voice/data packets.



                        Thus GSM need not worry about packet collision and retry.



                        ======= regarding telemetry from rocket/missile testing



                        NASA, and its precursor organizations, developed various "coding" methods, with definitions standardized under the IRIG Inter Range Instrumentation Group. Some of these patterns have long runs of 111111s or 000000000s with no clocking information, and the ground-based phase-lock-loops recover the data just fine ---- without any parallel radio/wireless channel needed for clocks; there is very little timing jitter between a missile and the ground antenna. To handle hundreds of sensors on the missile, all multiplexed into a serial data stream, a special SYNCH_WORD pattern is inserted once a frame.



                        To function, such a downlink has this behavior



                        1) sweep the frequency span expected to cover the unavoidable Doppler shifts, while testing each RF carrier for identifying patterns (the expected bit rate)



                        2) once the proper bit rate is found, then pursue a phase-locking to the bit-transitions; this is slow in most cases because the PLL has NARROW bandwidth to avoid easy breaking phase-lock due to noise bursts; or the initial lock can be done broadband, and then the loop bandwidth severely tightened down, to where the Doppler shifts are just barely accommodated (this tracking of Doppler may require a higher-order control loop)



                        3) once we have a bit-lock, the telemetry system needs to find "start of frame", so the first sensor's data and the 2nd sensor's data, etc, can be correctly extracted from the serial bit stream; this may take a while, because the telemetry system MUST BE CERTAIN, and thus tests the bit stream for the expected SPECIAL bit-pattern over and over. Incorrect frame lock means all the data is useless.



                        Note the various "synchronous" approaches:



                        a) the telemetry system picks the correct RF channel



                        b) the telemetry system locks to, thus becoming synchronous with, the bit rate



                        c) the telemetry system locks to, thus becoming synchronous with, the start of Frame



                        As the PLUTO probe transmitted data to earth, after passing PLUTO and grabbing many photos and other sensor data, the downlink data rate was about 100 bits per second, with the RF carrier in the 8GHz range.



                        As the earth rotated, the 3 NASA DeepSpace 70 meter antennas each went thru this process of "acquisition" and then received that 100 bit datastream for the next 8 hours, all occurring synchronously.



                        The NASA systems were locked: RF, bit, frame.



                        ============= history ================



                        Why was IRIG defined? because FM telemetry needs about 20--25 dB SignalNoiseRatio for clean data to plot on those chart-recorders.



                        Whereas digital data (even without error-correction) works well at 10dB (or 7dB, depending on how your bandwidth is defined) SNR. At about 0.1% error rate.



                        With finite transmitter RF power on a missile-under-test, the aerospace projects literally could not get telemetry from missiles that exited the atmostphere, unless just a few SLOW sensors were used. Unacceptable.



                        Dropping the SNR from 27dB to 7dB, a 20dB difference, and given the Range^2 effect of RF energy dispersion, the aerospace companies suddenly had 10X the range, even without error-detect-correct.



                        Importance of telemetry: the Soviets used 320,000 sensors on the final (still it exploded!) launch of the N1. Prior 3 launches only used 700 sensors.







                        share|improve this answer














                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer








                        edited 13 hours ago

























                        answered 15 hours ago









                        analogsystemsrf

                        13.5k2716




                        13.5k2716












                        • That implies it could take a long time to lock, and would be vulnerable do unlocking in the event of sudden doppler - was it all done "live", or was some of this done "retroactively" by recording a stream and then re-parsing it until correct framing was achieved?
                          – pjc50
                          12 hours ago










                        • @pjc50: A sudden doppler of a deep space probe is probably a catastrophic event.
                          – Joshua
                          8 hours ago


















                        • That implies it could take a long time to lock, and would be vulnerable do unlocking in the event of sudden doppler - was it all done "live", or was some of this done "retroactively" by recording a stream and then re-parsing it until correct framing was achieved?
                          – pjc50
                          12 hours ago










                        • @pjc50: A sudden doppler of a deep space probe is probably a catastrophic event.
                          – Joshua
                          8 hours ago
















                        That implies it could take a long time to lock, and would be vulnerable do unlocking in the event of sudden doppler - was it all done "live", or was some of this done "retroactively" by recording a stream and then re-parsing it until correct framing was achieved?
                        – pjc50
                        12 hours ago




                        That implies it could take a long time to lock, and would be vulnerable do unlocking in the event of sudden doppler - was it all done "live", or was some of this done "retroactively" by recording a stream and then re-parsing it until correct framing was achieved?
                        – pjc50
                        12 hours ago












                        @pjc50: A sudden doppler of a deep space probe is probably a catastrophic event.
                        – Joshua
                        8 hours ago




                        @pjc50: A sudden doppler of a deep space probe is probably a catastrophic event.
                        – Joshua
                        8 hours ago










                        up vote
                        2
                        down vote













                        Yes, it is done by merging the clock and payload data signal into one (wireless) channel.



                        Examples are Manchester code or Pulse Position Modulation. In both cases (starting the) clock recovery at receiver side (e.g. by synchronizing a PLL) is often simplified by using a distinct preamble in the header of a data frame.



                        One application where wireless PPM is used for example is Secondary surveillance Radar (ADS-B etc.).

                        An oscillogram of a ADS-B frame is shown here.






                        share|improve this answer



























                          up vote
                          2
                          down vote













                          Yes, it is done by merging the clock and payload data signal into one (wireless) channel.



                          Examples are Manchester code or Pulse Position Modulation. In both cases (starting the) clock recovery at receiver side (e.g. by synchronizing a PLL) is often simplified by using a distinct preamble in the header of a data frame.



                          One application where wireless PPM is used for example is Secondary surveillance Radar (ADS-B etc.).

                          An oscillogram of a ADS-B frame is shown here.






                          share|improve this answer

























                            up vote
                            2
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            2
                            down vote









                            Yes, it is done by merging the clock and payload data signal into one (wireless) channel.



                            Examples are Manchester code or Pulse Position Modulation. In both cases (starting the) clock recovery at receiver side (e.g. by synchronizing a PLL) is often simplified by using a distinct preamble in the header of a data frame.



                            One application where wireless PPM is used for example is Secondary surveillance Radar (ADS-B etc.).

                            An oscillogram of a ADS-B frame is shown here.






                            share|improve this answer














                            Yes, it is done by merging the clock and payload data signal into one (wireless) channel.



                            Examples are Manchester code or Pulse Position Modulation. In both cases (starting the) clock recovery at receiver side (e.g. by synchronizing a PLL) is often simplified by using a distinct preamble in the header of a data frame.



                            One application where wireless PPM is used for example is Secondary surveillance Radar (ADS-B etc.).

                            An oscillogram of a ADS-B frame is shown here.







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited 17 hours ago

























                            answered 17 hours ago









                            Curd

                            12.4k2232




                            12.4k2232






















                                up vote
                                2
                                down vote













                                Normally systems which recover the clock from a single channel are called "asynchronous", like UARTs, while "synchronous" systems require multiple channels. So I disagree with the claims that using Manchester encoding or similar is "synchronous".



                                In radio systems, even if you use multiple channels, it is difficult to ensure that the signals arrive at the same time, or even with a reliable skew, because there may be diffraction or multipath effects involved. Doppler effect may also skew your results.



                                GSM systems are time-slot based (TDMA), but as far as I understand it the central clock is just used to control which mobile equipment is allowed to transmit in any one timeslot - it does not determine bit boundaries.






                                share|improve this answer

























                                  up vote
                                  2
                                  down vote













                                  Normally systems which recover the clock from a single channel are called "asynchronous", like UARTs, while "synchronous" systems require multiple channels. So I disagree with the claims that using Manchester encoding or similar is "synchronous".



                                  In radio systems, even if you use multiple channels, it is difficult to ensure that the signals arrive at the same time, or even with a reliable skew, because there may be diffraction or multipath effects involved. Doppler effect may also skew your results.



                                  GSM systems are time-slot based (TDMA), but as far as I understand it the central clock is just used to control which mobile equipment is allowed to transmit in any one timeslot - it does not determine bit boundaries.






                                  share|improve this answer























                                    up vote
                                    2
                                    down vote










                                    up vote
                                    2
                                    down vote









                                    Normally systems which recover the clock from a single channel are called "asynchronous", like UARTs, while "synchronous" systems require multiple channels. So I disagree with the claims that using Manchester encoding or similar is "synchronous".



                                    In radio systems, even if you use multiple channels, it is difficult to ensure that the signals arrive at the same time, or even with a reliable skew, because there may be diffraction or multipath effects involved. Doppler effect may also skew your results.



                                    GSM systems are time-slot based (TDMA), but as far as I understand it the central clock is just used to control which mobile equipment is allowed to transmit in any one timeslot - it does not determine bit boundaries.






                                    share|improve this answer












                                    Normally systems which recover the clock from a single channel are called "asynchronous", like UARTs, while "synchronous" systems require multiple channels. So I disagree with the claims that using Manchester encoding or similar is "synchronous".



                                    In radio systems, even if you use multiple channels, it is difficult to ensure that the signals arrive at the same time, or even with a reliable skew, because there may be diffraction or multipath effects involved. Doppler effect may also skew your results.



                                    GSM systems are time-slot based (TDMA), but as far as I understand it the central clock is just used to control which mobile equipment is allowed to transmit in any one timeslot - it does not determine bit boundaries.







                                    share|improve this answer












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                                    answered 17 hours ago









                                    pjc50

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