How do I properly set up this integral equation?











up vote
0
down vote

favorite












Using the gaussian law I want to determine the field strength of a charged stick on another load.

The base formula for that is
$$epsilon_0 oint {vec{E} cdot d vec{A}} = q$$
A second formula for q is:
$$ q = lambda cdot h $$
$$vec{E} = frac{1}{4cdot pi cdot epsilon_0} cdot frac{q_1}{r^2} cdot hat{r}$$
In this case we use a cylinder to solve our problem and we only need the lateral surface.
$$A = 2cdot pi cdot d cdot h$$



My questions




  1. I have a strong problem with a surface written as vector.

    Assuming we have a situation like in the first picture of this question where the lateral surface of our cylinder touches the load.

    How would I properly write the surface as vector (how can I determine the direction vector)?

    Usually my approach would be $vec{r} = (x_2 - x_1)hat{x} + (y_2 - y_1)hat{y}$. But as we have a solid here I have problems finding the start and end coordinates.


  2. Until now I only solved integrals in the form of $int f(x) dx$ but now I have an equation like the one above. What would be my "x" here? How would I solve this integral?



As you can imagine this is a task from my electronics class. It's not a homework but it was an example.

Unfortunately we did explicitly not pay attention to the integral and we did not pay attention to the surface written as vector.

What we did is the following:
$$epsilon_0 oint {vec{E} cdot d vec{A}} = q$$
$$epsilon_0 cdot |vec{E}| cdot 2 cdot pi cdot h cdot d = q$$
Because $lambda$ is given in this particular task we can do
$$epsilon_0 cdot |vec{E}| cdot 2 cdot pi cdot h cdot d = lambda cdot h$$
$$|vec{E}| = frac{lambda}{2cdot pi cdot d cdot epsilon_0}$$










share|cite|improve this question


























    up vote
    0
    down vote

    favorite












    Using the gaussian law I want to determine the field strength of a charged stick on another load.

    The base formula for that is
    $$epsilon_0 oint {vec{E} cdot d vec{A}} = q$$
    A second formula for q is:
    $$ q = lambda cdot h $$
    $$vec{E} = frac{1}{4cdot pi cdot epsilon_0} cdot frac{q_1}{r^2} cdot hat{r}$$
    In this case we use a cylinder to solve our problem and we only need the lateral surface.
    $$A = 2cdot pi cdot d cdot h$$



    My questions




    1. I have a strong problem with a surface written as vector.

      Assuming we have a situation like in the first picture of this question where the lateral surface of our cylinder touches the load.

      How would I properly write the surface as vector (how can I determine the direction vector)?

      Usually my approach would be $vec{r} = (x_2 - x_1)hat{x} + (y_2 - y_1)hat{y}$. But as we have a solid here I have problems finding the start and end coordinates.


    2. Until now I only solved integrals in the form of $int f(x) dx$ but now I have an equation like the one above. What would be my "x" here? How would I solve this integral?



    As you can imagine this is a task from my electronics class. It's not a homework but it was an example.

    Unfortunately we did explicitly not pay attention to the integral and we did not pay attention to the surface written as vector.

    What we did is the following:
    $$epsilon_0 oint {vec{E} cdot d vec{A}} = q$$
    $$epsilon_0 cdot |vec{E}| cdot 2 cdot pi cdot h cdot d = q$$
    Because $lambda$ is given in this particular task we can do
    $$epsilon_0 cdot |vec{E}| cdot 2 cdot pi cdot h cdot d = lambda cdot h$$
    $$|vec{E}| = frac{lambda}{2cdot pi cdot d cdot epsilon_0}$$










    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite











      Using the gaussian law I want to determine the field strength of a charged stick on another load.

      The base formula for that is
      $$epsilon_0 oint {vec{E} cdot d vec{A}} = q$$
      A second formula for q is:
      $$ q = lambda cdot h $$
      $$vec{E} = frac{1}{4cdot pi cdot epsilon_0} cdot frac{q_1}{r^2} cdot hat{r}$$
      In this case we use a cylinder to solve our problem and we only need the lateral surface.
      $$A = 2cdot pi cdot d cdot h$$



      My questions




      1. I have a strong problem with a surface written as vector.

        Assuming we have a situation like in the first picture of this question where the lateral surface of our cylinder touches the load.

        How would I properly write the surface as vector (how can I determine the direction vector)?

        Usually my approach would be $vec{r} = (x_2 - x_1)hat{x} + (y_2 - y_1)hat{y}$. But as we have a solid here I have problems finding the start and end coordinates.


      2. Until now I only solved integrals in the form of $int f(x) dx$ but now I have an equation like the one above. What would be my "x" here? How would I solve this integral?



      As you can imagine this is a task from my electronics class. It's not a homework but it was an example.

      Unfortunately we did explicitly not pay attention to the integral and we did not pay attention to the surface written as vector.

      What we did is the following:
      $$epsilon_0 oint {vec{E} cdot d vec{A}} = q$$
      $$epsilon_0 cdot |vec{E}| cdot 2 cdot pi cdot h cdot d = q$$
      Because $lambda$ is given in this particular task we can do
      $$epsilon_0 cdot |vec{E}| cdot 2 cdot pi cdot h cdot d = lambda cdot h$$
      $$|vec{E}| = frac{lambda}{2cdot pi cdot d cdot epsilon_0}$$










      share|cite|improve this question













      Using the gaussian law I want to determine the field strength of a charged stick on another load.

      The base formula for that is
      $$epsilon_0 oint {vec{E} cdot d vec{A}} = q$$
      A second formula for q is:
      $$ q = lambda cdot h $$
      $$vec{E} = frac{1}{4cdot pi cdot epsilon_0} cdot frac{q_1}{r^2} cdot hat{r}$$
      In this case we use a cylinder to solve our problem and we only need the lateral surface.
      $$A = 2cdot pi cdot d cdot h$$



      My questions




      1. I have a strong problem with a surface written as vector.

        Assuming we have a situation like in the first picture of this question where the lateral surface of our cylinder touches the load.

        How would I properly write the surface as vector (how can I determine the direction vector)?

        Usually my approach would be $vec{r} = (x_2 - x_1)hat{x} + (y_2 - y_1)hat{y}$. But as we have a solid here I have problems finding the start and end coordinates.


      2. Until now I only solved integrals in the form of $int f(x) dx$ but now I have an equation like the one above. What would be my "x" here? How would I solve this integral?



      As you can imagine this is a task from my electronics class. It's not a homework but it was an example.

      Unfortunately we did explicitly not pay attention to the integral and we did not pay attention to the surface written as vector.

      What we did is the following:
      $$epsilon_0 oint {vec{E} cdot d vec{A}} = q$$
      $$epsilon_0 cdot |vec{E}| cdot 2 cdot pi cdot h cdot d = q$$
      Because $lambda$ is given in this particular task we can do
      $$epsilon_0 cdot |vec{E}| cdot 2 cdot pi cdot h cdot d = lambda cdot h$$
      $$|vec{E}| = frac{lambda}{2cdot pi cdot d cdot epsilon_0}$$







      vector-analysis physics






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked Nov 17 at 1:53









      TimSch

      1007




      1007






















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted










          Due to symmetry considerations, $vec E$ at a given point is always pointing along the line from that point that is perpendicular to the wire. We can use cylindrical coordinates. With $d$ the distance from the wire, we can write $vec E=E(d)hat r$. For a surface, the vector $dvec A$ is always perpendicular to that surface. So in cylindrical coordinates we can write the surface element that is part of the cylinder with radius $r$ as $dvec A=r dtheta dh hat r$. Notice that $dvec A$ and $vec E$ are parallel (or antiparallel), so $$vec Ecdot dvec A=EdA=E d dtheta dh$$
          Integrating $theta$ from $0$ to $2pi$ and $h$ from $0$ to $h$, you get your formula. In conclusion, you get the answer due to the fact that $vec E$ is always perpendicular to the surface of the cylinder of radius $d$, and is only dependent on the magnitude of $d$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks again! I have still one question: How can I find the antiderivative of this? As I mentioned, unfortunately we skipped this part. I know that this is probably absolutely simple but it confuses me anyway. Secondly another probably quite silly question: How would the unit vectors look like?
            – TimSch
            Nov 17 at 23:37






          • 1




            Integral over $dtheta$ is $2pi$, integral over $dh$ is the length of the wire $L$ (will go to infinity, but will cancel with the charge: $q=lambda L$)
            – Andrei
            Nov 17 at 23:59











          Your Answer





          StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
          return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
          StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
          StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
          });
          });
          }, "mathjax-editing");

          StackExchange.ready(function() {
          var channelOptions = {
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "69"
          };
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
          createEditor();
          });
          }
          else {
          createEditor();
          }
          });

          function createEditor() {
          StackExchange.prepareEditor({
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          convertImagesToLinks: true,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: 10,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader: {
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          },
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          });


          }
          });














          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3001876%2fhow-do-i-properly-set-up-this-integral-equation%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted










          Due to symmetry considerations, $vec E$ at a given point is always pointing along the line from that point that is perpendicular to the wire. We can use cylindrical coordinates. With $d$ the distance from the wire, we can write $vec E=E(d)hat r$. For a surface, the vector $dvec A$ is always perpendicular to that surface. So in cylindrical coordinates we can write the surface element that is part of the cylinder with radius $r$ as $dvec A=r dtheta dh hat r$. Notice that $dvec A$ and $vec E$ are parallel (or antiparallel), so $$vec Ecdot dvec A=EdA=E d dtheta dh$$
          Integrating $theta$ from $0$ to $2pi$ and $h$ from $0$ to $h$, you get your formula. In conclusion, you get the answer due to the fact that $vec E$ is always perpendicular to the surface of the cylinder of radius $d$, and is only dependent on the magnitude of $d$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks again! I have still one question: How can I find the antiderivative of this? As I mentioned, unfortunately we skipped this part. I know that this is probably absolutely simple but it confuses me anyway. Secondly another probably quite silly question: How would the unit vectors look like?
            – TimSch
            Nov 17 at 23:37






          • 1




            Integral over $dtheta$ is $2pi$, integral over $dh$ is the length of the wire $L$ (will go to infinity, but will cancel with the charge: $q=lambda L$)
            – Andrei
            Nov 17 at 23:59















          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted










          Due to symmetry considerations, $vec E$ at a given point is always pointing along the line from that point that is perpendicular to the wire. We can use cylindrical coordinates. With $d$ the distance from the wire, we can write $vec E=E(d)hat r$. For a surface, the vector $dvec A$ is always perpendicular to that surface. So in cylindrical coordinates we can write the surface element that is part of the cylinder with radius $r$ as $dvec A=r dtheta dh hat r$. Notice that $dvec A$ and $vec E$ are parallel (or antiparallel), so $$vec Ecdot dvec A=EdA=E d dtheta dh$$
          Integrating $theta$ from $0$ to $2pi$ and $h$ from $0$ to $h$, you get your formula. In conclusion, you get the answer due to the fact that $vec E$ is always perpendicular to the surface of the cylinder of radius $d$, and is only dependent on the magnitude of $d$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks again! I have still one question: How can I find the antiderivative of this? As I mentioned, unfortunately we skipped this part. I know that this is probably absolutely simple but it confuses me anyway. Secondly another probably quite silly question: How would the unit vectors look like?
            – TimSch
            Nov 17 at 23:37






          • 1




            Integral over $dtheta$ is $2pi$, integral over $dh$ is the length of the wire $L$ (will go to infinity, but will cancel with the charge: $q=lambda L$)
            – Andrei
            Nov 17 at 23:59













          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted






          Due to symmetry considerations, $vec E$ at a given point is always pointing along the line from that point that is perpendicular to the wire. We can use cylindrical coordinates. With $d$ the distance from the wire, we can write $vec E=E(d)hat r$. For a surface, the vector $dvec A$ is always perpendicular to that surface. So in cylindrical coordinates we can write the surface element that is part of the cylinder with radius $r$ as $dvec A=r dtheta dh hat r$. Notice that $dvec A$ and $vec E$ are parallel (or antiparallel), so $$vec Ecdot dvec A=EdA=E d dtheta dh$$
          Integrating $theta$ from $0$ to $2pi$ and $h$ from $0$ to $h$, you get your formula. In conclusion, you get the answer due to the fact that $vec E$ is always perpendicular to the surface of the cylinder of radius $d$, and is only dependent on the magnitude of $d$.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          Due to symmetry considerations, $vec E$ at a given point is always pointing along the line from that point that is perpendicular to the wire. We can use cylindrical coordinates. With $d$ the distance from the wire, we can write $vec E=E(d)hat r$. For a surface, the vector $dvec A$ is always perpendicular to that surface. So in cylindrical coordinates we can write the surface element that is part of the cylinder with radius $r$ as $dvec A=r dtheta dh hat r$. Notice that $dvec A$ and $vec E$ are parallel (or antiparallel), so $$vec Ecdot dvec A=EdA=E d dtheta dh$$
          Integrating $theta$ from $0$ to $2pi$ and $h$ from $0$ to $h$, you get your formula. In conclusion, you get the answer due to the fact that $vec E$ is always perpendicular to the surface of the cylinder of radius $d$, and is only dependent on the magnitude of $d$.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 17 at 3:58









          Andrei

          10.3k21025




          10.3k21025












          • Thanks again! I have still one question: How can I find the antiderivative of this? As I mentioned, unfortunately we skipped this part. I know that this is probably absolutely simple but it confuses me anyway. Secondly another probably quite silly question: How would the unit vectors look like?
            – TimSch
            Nov 17 at 23:37






          • 1




            Integral over $dtheta$ is $2pi$, integral over $dh$ is the length of the wire $L$ (will go to infinity, but will cancel with the charge: $q=lambda L$)
            – Andrei
            Nov 17 at 23:59


















          • Thanks again! I have still one question: How can I find the antiderivative of this? As I mentioned, unfortunately we skipped this part. I know that this is probably absolutely simple but it confuses me anyway. Secondly another probably quite silly question: How would the unit vectors look like?
            – TimSch
            Nov 17 at 23:37






          • 1




            Integral over $dtheta$ is $2pi$, integral over $dh$ is the length of the wire $L$ (will go to infinity, but will cancel with the charge: $q=lambda L$)
            – Andrei
            Nov 17 at 23:59
















          Thanks again! I have still one question: How can I find the antiderivative of this? As I mentioned, unfortunately we skipped this part. I know that this is probably absolutely simple but it confuses me anyway. Secondly another probably quite silly question: How would the unit vectors look like?
          – TimSch
          Nov 17 at 23:37




          Thanks again! I have still one question: How can I find the antiderivative of this? As I mentioned, unfortunately we skipped this part. I know that this is probably absolutely simple but it confuses me anyway. Secondly another probably quite silly question: How would the unit vectors look like?
          – TimSch
          Nov 17 at 23:37




          1




          1




          Integral over $dtheta$ is $2pi$, integral over $dh$ is the length of the wire $L$ (will go to infinity, but will cancel with the charge: $q=lambda L$)
          – Andrei
          Nov 17 at 23:59




          Integral over $dtheta$ is $2pi$, integral over $dh$ is the length of the wire $L$ (will go to infinity, but will cancel with the charge: $q=lambda L$)
          – Andrei
          Nov 17 at 23:59


















          draft saved

          draft discarded




















































          Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

          But avoid



          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


          Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





          Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


          Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

          But avoid



          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




          draft saved


          draft discarded














          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3001876%2fhow-do-i-properly-set-up-this-integral-equation%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown





















































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown

































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown







          Popular posts from this blog

          Plaza Victoria

          Puebla de Zaragoza

          Musa