Do people get birth even they are (almost) eligible for Moksha











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Is it possible for taking birth even the Jeeva is eligible for Moksha?



I'm asking this question for normal human beings, not for the avatar as Krishna, Rama etc.,



If possible, then show an example of such human being, if exists.










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  • 3




    How can one know if other person is eligible for moksha? What is the criteria? We are not the judges for other person's deeds and moksha. It's God who gives moksha.
    – Sarvabhouma
    Nov 26 at 9:52






  • 3




    "almost" means the soul which yet to cross other side of shore but is so near to cross it but the life of that body ends. So the soul takes another birth to complete!
    – Akshay Kumar S
    Nov 26 at 10:15






  • 1




    How will they get moksha without getting born as a human being? Because scriptures say that usually only from a human birth moksha is possible and also possible only from Bhuloka. So they hv to ..
    – Rickross
    Nov 26 at 11:40






  • 2




    Or are you asking in the sense - if person can be granted Moksha as he has full qualifications for it and still can he take another birth?
    – Akshay Kumar S
    Nov 26 at 13:14






  • 2




    Then my previous comment and as iammlind told as an answer should answer your question
    – Akshay Kumar S
    Nov 26 at 13:20















up vote
3
down vote

favorite












Is it possible for taking birth even the Jeeva is eligible for Moksha?



I'm asking this question for normal human beings, not for the avatar as Krishna, Rama etc.,



If possible, then show an example of such human being, if exists.










share|improve this question


















  • 3




    How can one know if other person is eligible for moksha? What is the criteria? We are not the judges for other person's deeds and moksha. It's God who gives moksha.
    – Sarvabhouma
    Nov 26 at 9:52






  • 3




    "almost" means the soul which yet to cross other side of shore but is so near to cross it but the life of that body ends. So the soul takes another birth to complete!
    – Akshay Kumar S
    Nov 26 at 10:15






  • 1




    How will they get moksha without getting born as a human being? Because scriptures say that usually only from a human birth moksha is possible and also possible only from Bhuloka. So they hv to ..
    – Rickross
    Nov 26 at 11:40






  • 2




    Or are you asking in the sense - if person can be granted Moksha as he has full qualifications for it and still can he take another birth?
    – Akshay Kumar S
    Nov 26 at 13:14






  • 2




    Then my previous comment and as iammlind told as an answer should answer your question
    – Akshay Kumar S
    Nov 26 at 13:20













up vote
3
down vote

favorite









up vote
3
down vote

favorite











Is it possible for taking birth even the Jeeva is eligible for Moksha?



I'm asking this question for normal human beings, not for the avatar as Krishna, Rama etc.,



If possible, then show an example of such human being, if exists.










share|improve this question













Is it possible for taking birth even the Jeeva is eligible for Moksha?



I'm asking this question for normal human beings, not for the avatar as Krishna, Rama etc.,



If possible, then show an example of such human being, if exists.







moksha






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked Nov 26 at 8:15









hanugm

2,54011131




2,54011131








  • 3




    How can one know if other person is eligible for moksha? What is the criteria? We are not the judges for other person's deeds and moksha. It's God who gives moksha.
    – Sarvabhouma
    Nov 26 at 9:52






  • 3




    "almost" means the soul which yet to cross other side of shore but is so near to cross it but the life of that body ends. So the soul takes another birth to complete!
    – Akshay Kumar S
    Nov 26 at 10:15






  • 1




    How will they get moksha without getting born as a human being? Because scriptures say that usually only from a human birth moksha is possible and also possible only from Bhuloka. So they hv to ..
    – Rickross
    Nov 26 at 11:40






  • 2




    Or are you asking in the sense - if person can be granted Moksha as he has full qualifications for it and still can he take another birth?
    – Akshay Kumar S
    Nov 26 at 13:14






  • 2




    Then my previous comment and as iammlind told as an answer should answer your question
    – Akshay Kumar S
    Nov 26 at 13:20














  • 3




    How can one know if other person is eligible for moksha? What is the criteria? We are not the judges for other person's deeds and moksha. It's God who gives moksha.
    – Sarvabhouma
    Nov 26 at 9:52






  • 3




    "almost" means the soul which yet to cross other side of shore but is so near to cross it but the life of that body ends. So the soul takes another birth to complete!
    – Akshay Kumar S
    Nov 26 at 10:15






  • 1




    How will they get moksha without getting born as a human being? Because scriptures say that usually only from a human birth moksha is possible and also possible only from Bhuloka. So they hv to ..
    – Rickross
    Nov 26 at 11:40






  • 2




    Or are you asking in the sense - if person can be granted Moksha as he has full qualifications for it and still can he take another birth?
    – Akshay Kumar S
    Nov 26 at 13:14






  • 2




    Then my previous comment and as iammlind told as an answer should answer your question
    – Akshay Kumar S
    Nov 26 at 13:20








3




3




How can one know if other person is eligible for moksha? What is the criteria? We are not the judges for other person's deeds and moksha. It's God who gives moksha.
– Sarvabhouma
Nov 26 at 9:52




How can one know if other person is eligible for moksha? What is the criteria? We are not the judges for other person's deeds and moksha. It's God who gives moksha.
– Sarvabhouma
Nov 26 at 9:52




3




3




"almost" means the soul which yet to cross other side of shore but is so near to cross it but the life of that body ends. So the soul takes another birth to complete!
– Akshay Kumar S
Nov 26 at 10:15




"almost" means the soul which yet to cross other side of shore but is so near to cross it but the life of that body ends. So the soul takes another birth to complete!
– Akshay Kumar S
Nov 26 at 10:15




1




1




How will they get moksha without getting born as a human being? Because scriptures say that usually only from a human birth moksha is possible and also possible only from Bhuloka. So they hv to ..
– Rickross
Nov 26 at 11:40




How will they get moksha without getting born as a human being? Because scriptures say that usually only from a human birth moksha is possible and also possible only from Bhuloka. So they hv to ..
– Rickross
Nov 26 at 11:40




2




2




Or are you asking in the sense - if person can be granted Moksha as he has full qualifications for it and still can he take another birth?
– Akshay Kumar S
Nov 26 at 13:14




Or are you asking in the sense - if person can be granted Moksha as he has full qualifications for it and still can he take another birth?
– Akshay Kumar S
Nov 26 at 13:14




2




2




Then my previous comment and as iammlind told as an answer should answer your question
– Akshay Kumar S
Nov 26 at 13:20




Then my previous comment and as iammlind told as an answer should answer your question
– Akshay Kumar S
Nov 26 at 13:20










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
3
down vote



accepted










As already suggested in 1 comment, if a person is "almost" eligible for Moksha, then they have to born again.

The birth cycle ends only after the liberation is attained.



This is analogous to the fallen Yogi terminology from Bhagavad Gita.

A fallen Yogi is a person, who fell more or less short of attaining the final destination. Hence gets reborn and starts perseverance from where it was left.



Similar Q&A during Gita:




BG 6.37 - Arjuna asked, those who possess faith, but wavers mind away from Yoga (state of attaining liberation); After failing to be perfect in Yoga, what state do they attain?



BG 6.40 - Blessed lord said, O Partha, neither here nor hereafter, their destruction happens; O dear, none of those engaged in such auspicious activity, goes to downfall.

BG 6.43 - There [in the new body] they aquire the recollection of intellect of the previous body; And thereafter they persevere (put strong efforts) more for perfection




The examples are trivial. Those who attained Moksha during their birth, were almost perfecting in Yoga till their previous birth:




  • Shri RAma

  • Shri Krishna

  • Drona

  • ShishupAla

  • Ravana

  • Even there is story about Ramakrishna Parmahamsa & Vivekananda taking 1 more birth


All of above, apparently got liberated during their last birth. So they would have fallen short of the perfection till their 2nd last birth.





Refer this matching answer:
What will happen to a youth who wants to enjoy life as well as continuing spiritual efforts?






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    @hanugm There is example of Bharat who became deer and then became Jada Bharat in Srimad Bhagavatam vedabase.com/en/sb/5 from chapter 7 onwards
    – RaRe
    Nov 26 at 11:25






  • 1




    "they would have fallen short of the perfection till their 2nd last birth"--- Rama & Krishna are incarnations (Adikarikas)...and for Adikarikas rule for moksha is different : hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/29615/12304
    – YDS
    Nov 26 at 13:05






  • 4




    @iammilind It is odd that you have mentioned Rama and Krishna in that list. Could you quote references that indicate that they were not liberated during their avatara leela and only got liberated at the end of their earthly stint?
    – Ambi
    Nov 26 at 14:22






  • 1




    @iammilind that goes directly in opposition to what Sri Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita 9.11 and Srimad Bhagavatam 10.14.2. It is a long shot to call Rama and Krishna as taking births or attaining moksha by the normal definition of human birth or their moksha, contrary to what has been explained by the acharyas of the past. And beyond that, there is no evidence that they 'attained moksha', esp. when sampradayic traditions clearly hold that they are the ones giving it. I did read the answer linked, but that is a overly simplistic conclusion, IMHO.
    – Ambi
    Nov 26 at 15:17






  • 1




    @iammilind clearly, then, we will have to disagree on that point of Krishna being in connection with some third entity just like we disagree on the nature of Rama and Krishna... either that they had consciousness that was less than perfect intitially (since both are non-different from Narayana) and became perfect over time or that they had material bodies that end like it did for normal humans.
    – Ambi
    Nov 27 at 2:05


















up vote
8
down vote













Already User iammilind has quoted from 6th chapter of gita which clearly shows that one has to take birth until he is completely perfect.



One of the names of Lord Krishna or in fact all avatars of Vishnu is Mukunda.



The meaning of Mukunda is 'giver of mukti'.



So there is no question of Krishna/Ram getting liberated. They are never conditioned.



That's why Krishna says:



Bg 4.9 He who thus know, in their true light, My divine birth and action, having abandoned the body, is not born again, he comes to Me, O Arjuna



BG 4.14 There is no work that affects Me; nor do I aspire for the fruits of action. One who understands this truth about Me also does not become entangled in the fruitive reactions of work.



Few examples of human beings who got/going to get liberated:



1)Narada: He was a gandharva upabarhana in one life, then he took birth on earth, then in next life he became Narada




SB 7.15.69: Long, long ago, in another mahā-kalpa [millennium of
Brahmā], I existed as the Gandharva known as Upabarhaṇa. I was very
respected by the other Gandharvas.



SB 1.6.21: O Narada [the Lord spoke], I regret that during this
lifetime you will not be able to see Me anymore. Those who are
incomplete in service and who are not completely free from all
material taints can hardly see Me.




2)Jada Bharat:




There is example of Bharat who became deer and then became Jada
Bharat in Srimad Bhagavatam this chapter onwards.




3)King Mucukunda:




SB 10.51.63 — O King, in your very next life you will become an
excellent brāhmaṇa, the greatest well-wisher of all creatures, and
certainly come to Me alone.




4)Elephant Gajendra:




He was king Indradyumna in previous life, the story comes in 8th Canto
of Bhagavatam.




5)Nalkuvera and Manigriva:



They were gandharvas, cursed to become trees, then again reinstated and got benediction that they would never fall from their consciousness which means, that is going to be their life.




SB 10.10.42 — O Nalakūvara and Maṇigrīva, now you may both return
home. Since you desire to be always absorbed in My devotional service,
your desire to develop love and affection for Me will be fulfilled,
and now you will never fall from that platform.




6) King Chitraketu :



Chitraketu became Vrttasura in next life and then became perfect. Story comes from 6th Canto of Bhagavatam.



The examples of Sisupala, Dantavakra can be given, but they were Jaya and Vijaya in Vaikunta who were anyways destined to take 3 births and then liberated.






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  • It seems in a bid to answer to my answer, you have missed to address the title of the question.
    – iammilind
    Nov 27 at 2:58










  • @iammilind I updated the answer. Anyways the question also mentioned Rama and Krishna in it. My answer is vaishnavite school perspective.
    – RaRe
    Nov 27 at 4:15


















up vote
1
down vote













Only Ishwar Kotis can return



http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/gospel/volume_1/26_festival_at_adhars.htm



From Gospels of Ramakrishna Paramhans




Yoga and the six centres



MASTER: "Yoga is not possible if the mind dwells on 'woman and gold'.
The mind of a worldly man generally moves among the three lower
centres: those at the navel, at the sexual organ, and at the organ of
evacuation. After great effort and spiritual practice the Kundalini is
awakened. According to the yogis there are three nerves in the spinal
column: Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna. Along the Sushumna are six
lotuses, or centres, the lowest being known as the Muladhara. Then
come successively Svadhisthana, Manipura, Anāhata, Visuddha, and Ājnā.
These are the six centres. The Kundalini, when awakened, passes
through the lower centres and comes to the Anāhata, which is at the
heart. It stays there. At that time the mind of the aspirant is
withdrawn from the three lower centres. He feels the awakening of
Divine Consciousness and sees Light. In mute wonder he sees that
radiance and cries out: 'What is this? What is this?'



"After passing through the six centres, the Kundalini reaches the
thousand petalled lotus known as the Sahasrara, and the aspirant goes
into samādhi.



"According to the Vedas these centres are called 'bhumi', 'planes'.
There are seven such planes. The centre at the heart corresponds to
the fourth plane of the Vedas. According to the Tantra there is in
this centre a lotus called Anāhata, with twelve petals.



"The centre known as Visuddha is the fifth plane. This centre is at
the throat and has a lotus with sixteen petals. When the Kundalini
reaches this plane, the devotee longs to talk and hear only about God.
Conversation on worldly subjects, on 'woman and gold', causes him
great pain. He leaves a place where people talk of these matters.



"Then comes the sixth plane, corresponding to the centre known as
Ājnā. This centre is located between the eyebrows and it has a lotus
with two petals. When the Kundalini reaches it, the aspirant sees the
form of God. But still there remains a slight barrier between the
devotee and God. It is like a light inside a lantern. You may think
you have touched the light, but in reality you cannot because of the
barrier of glass.



"And last of all is the seventh plane, which, according to Tantra, is
the centre of the thousand-petalled lotus. When the Kundalini arrives
there, the aspirant goes into samādhi. In that lotus dwells
Satchidananda Shiva, the Absolute. There Kundalini, the awakened
Power, unites with Shiva. This is known as the union of Shiva and
Śakti.



The state of samādhi



"When the Kundalini rises to the Sahasrara and the mind goes into
samādhi, the aspirant loses all consciousness of the outer world. He
can no longer retain his physical body. If milk is poured into his
mouth, it runs out again. In that state the life-breath lingers for
twenty-one days and then passes out. Entering the 'black waters' of
the ocean, the ship never comes back. But the Isvarakotis, such as the
Incarnations of God, can come down from this state of samādhi. They
can descend from this exalted state because they like to live in the
company of devotees and enjoy the love of God. God retains in them the
'ego of Knowledge' or the 'ego of Devotion' so that they may teach
men.
Their minds move between the sixth and the seventh planes. They
run a boat-race back and forth, as it were, between these two planes







share|improve this answer





















  • Good Answer. I was about to post on Isvarakotis as well. You should probably remove most of the non bold parts as it's not related to question.
    – Chinmay Sarupria
    Nov 27 at 12:58










  • well, Z cant be reached without starting from A. Seven Chakras or 7 days of week or 7 Grahas+Rahu/Ketu is what all of creation lives and their horoscope lives in.
    – user16755
    Nov 27 at 15:08



















3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
3
down vote



accepted










As already suggested in 1 comment, if a person is "almost" eligible for Moksha, then they have to born again.

The birth cycle ends only after the liberation is attained.



This is analogous to the fallen Yogi terminology from Bhagavad Gita.

A fallen Yogi is a person, who fell more or less short of attaining the final destination. Hence gets reborn and starts perseverance from where it was left.



Similar Q&A during Gita:




BG 6.37 - Arjuna asked, those who possess faith, but wavers mind away from Yoga (state of attaining liberation); After failing to be perfect in Yoga, what state do they attain?



BG 6.40 - Blessed lord said, O Partha, neither here nor hereafter, their destruction happens; O dear, none of those engaged in such auspicious activity, goes to downfall.

BG 6.43 - There [in the new body] they aquire the recollection of intellect of the previous body; And thereafter they persevere (put strong efforts) more for perfection




The examples are trivial. Those who attained Moksha during their birth, were almost perfecting in Yoga till their previous birth:




  • Shri RAma

  • Shri Krishna

  • Drona

  • ShishupAla

  • Ravana

  • Even there is story about Ramakrishna Parmahamsa & Vivekananda taking 1 more birth


All of above, apparently got liberated during their last birth. So they would have fallen short of the perfection till their 2nd last birth.





Refer this matching answer:
What will happen to a youth who wants to enjoy life as well as continuing spiritual efforts?






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    @hanugm There is example of Bharat who became deer and then became Jada Bharat in Srimad Bhagavatam vedabase.com/en/sb/5 from chapter 7 onwards
    – RaRe
    Nov 26 at 11:25






  • 1




    "they would have fallen short of the perfection till their 2nd last birth"--- Rama & Krishna are incarnations (Adikarikas)...and for Adikarikas rule for moksha is different : hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/29615/12304
    – YDS
    Nov 26 at 13:05






  • 4




    @iammilind It is odd that you have mentioned Rama and Krishna in that list. Could you quote references that indicate that they were not liberated during their avatara leela and only got liberated at the end of their earthly stint?
    – Ambi
    Nov 26 at 14:22






  • 1




    @iammilind that goes directly in opposition to what Sri Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita 9.11 and Srimad Bhagavatam 10.14.2. It is a long shot to call Rama and Krishna as taking births or attaining moksha by the normal definition of human birth or their moksha, contrary to what has been explained by the acharyas of the past. And beyond that, there is no evidence that they 'attained moksha', esp. when sampradayic traditions clearly hold that they are the ones giving it. I did read the answer linked, but that is a overly simplistic conclusion, IMHO.
    – Ambi
    Nov 26 at 15:17






  • 1




    @iammilind clearly, then, we will have to disagree on that point of Krishna being in connection with some third entity just like we disagree on the nature of Rama and Krishna... either that they had consciousness that was less than perfect intitially (since both are non-different from Narayana) and became perfect over time or that they had material bodies that end like it did for normal humans.
    – Ambi
    Nov 27 at 2:05















up vote
3
down vote



accepted










As already suggested in 1 comment, if a person is "almost" eligible for Moksha, then they have to born again.

The birth cycle ends only after the liberation is attained.



This is analogous to the fallen Yogi terminology from Bhagavad Gita.

A fallen Yogi is a person, who fell more or less short of attaining the final destination. Hence gets reborn and starts perseverance from where it was left.



Similar Q&A during Gita:




BG 6.37 - Arjuna asked, those who possess faith, but wavers mind away from Yoga (state of attaining liberation); After failing to be perfect in Yoga, what state do they attain?



BG 6.40 - Blessed lord said, O Partha, neither here nor hereafter, their destruction happens; O dear, none of those engaged in such auspicious activity, goes to downfall.

BG 6.43 - There [in the new body] they aquire the recollection of intellect of the previous body; And thereafter they persevere (put strong efforts) more for perfection




The examples are trivial. Those who attained Moksha during their birth, were almost perfecting in Yoga till their previous birth:




  • Shri RAma

  • Shri Krishna

  • Drona

  • ShishupAla

  • Ravana

  • Even there is story about Ramakrishna Parmahamsa & Vivekananda taking 1 more birth


All of above, apparently got liberated during their last birth. So they would have fallen short of the perfection till their 2nd last birth.





Refer this matching answer:
What will happen to a youth who wants to enjoy life as well as continuing spiritual efforts?






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    @hanugm There is example of Bharat who became deer and then became Jada Bharat in Srimad Bhagavatam vedabase.com/en/sb/5 from chapter 7 onwards
    – RaRe
    Nov 26 at 11:25






  • 1




    "they would have fallen short of the perfection till their 2nd last birth"--- Rama & Krishna are incarnations (Adikarikas)...and for Adikarikas rule for moksha is different : hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/29615/12304
    – YDS
    Nov 26 at 13:05






  • 4




    @iammilind It is odd that you have mentioned Rama and Krishna in that list. Could you quote references that indicate that they were not liberated during their avatara leela and only got liberated at the end of their earthly stint?
    – Ambi
    Nov 26 at 14:22






  • 1




    @iammilind that goes directly in opposition to what Sri Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita 9.11 and Srimad Bhagavatam 10.14.2. It is a long shot to call Rama and Krishna as taking births or attaining moksha by the normal definition of human birth or their moksha, contrary to what has been explained by the acharyas of the past. And beyond that, there is no evidence that they 'attained moksha', esp. when sampradayic traditions clearly hold that they are the ones giving it. I did read the answer linked, but that is a overly simplistic conclusion, IMHO.
    – Ambi
    Nov 26 at 15:17






  • 1




    @iammilind clearly, then, we will have to disagree on that point of Krishna being in connection with some third entity just like we disagree on the nature of Rama and Krishna... either that they had consciousness that was less than perfect intitially (since both are non-different from Narayana) and became perfect over time or that they had material bodies that end like it did for normal humans.
    – Ambi
    Nov 27 at 2:05













up vote
3
down vote



accepted







up vote
3
down vote



accepted






As already suggested in 1 comment, if a person is "almost" eligible for Moksha, then they have to born again.

The birth cycle ends only after the liberation is attained.



This is analogous to the fallen Yogi terminology from Bhagavad Gita.

A fallen Yogi is a person, who fell more or less short of attaining the final destination. Hence gets reborn and starts perseverance from where it was left.



Similar Q&A during Gita:




BG 6.37 - Arjuna asked, those who possess faith, but wavers mind away from Yoga (state of attaining liberation); After failing to be perfect in Yoga, what state do they attain?



BG 6.40 - Blessed lord said, O Partha, neither here nor hereafter, their destruction happens; O dear, none of those engaged in such auspicious activity, goes to downfall.

BG 6.43 - There [in the new body] they aquire the recollection of intellect of the previous body; And thereafter they persevere (put strong efforts) more for perfection




The examples are trivial. Those who attained Moksha during their birth, were almost perfecting in Yoga till their previous birth:




  • Shri RAma

  • Shri Krishna

  • Drona

  • ShishupAla

  • Ravana

  • Even there is story about Ramakrishna Parmahamsa & Vivekananda taking 1 more birth


All of above, apparently got liberated during their last birth. So they would have fallen short of the perfection till their 2nd last birth.





Refer this matching answer:
What will happen to a youth who wants to enjoy life as well as continuing spiritual efforts?






share|improve this answer














As already suggested in 1 comment, if a person is "almost" eligible for Moksha, then they have to born again.

The birth cycle ends only after the liberation is attained.



This is analogous to the fallen Yogi terminology from Bhagavad Gita.

A fallen Yogi is a person, who fell more or less short of attaining the final destination. Hence gets reborn and starts perseverance from where it was left.



Similar Q&A during Gita:




BG 6.37 - Arjuna asked, those who possess faith, but wavers mind away from Yoga (state of attaining liberation); After failing to be perfect in Yoga, what state do they attain?



BG 6.40 - Blessed lord said, O Partha, neither here nor hereafter, their destruction happens; O dear, none of those engaged in such auspicious activity, goes to downfall.

BG 6.43 - There [in the new body] they aquire the recollection of intellect of the previous body; And thereafter they persevere (put strong efforts) more for perfection




The examples are trivial. Those who attained Moksha during their birth, were almost perfecting in Yoga till their previous birth:




  • Shri RAma

  • Shri Krishna

  • Drona

  • ShishupAla

  • Ravana

  • Even there is story about Ramakrishna Parmahamsa & Vivekananda taking 1 more birth


All of above, apparently got liberated during their last birth. So they would have fallen short of the perfection till their 2nd last birth.





Refer this matching answer:
What will happen to a youth who wants to enjoy life as well as continuing spiritual efforts?







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Nov 26 at 11:15

























answered Nov 26 at 11:13









iammilind

13.7k429100




13.7k429100








  • 1




    @hanugm There is example of Bharat who became deer and then became Jada Bharat in Srimad Bhagavatam vedabase.com/en/sb/5 from chapter 7 onwards
    – RaRe
    Nov 26 at 11:25






  • 1




    "they would have fallen short of the perfection till their 2nd last birth"--- Rama & Krishna are incarnations (Adikarikas)...and for Adikarikas rule for moksha is different : hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/29615/12304
    – YDS
    Nov 26 at 13:05






  • 4




    @iammilind It is odd that you have mentioned Rama and Krishna in that list. Could you quote references that indicate that they were not liberated during their avatara leela and only got liberated at the end of their earthly stint?
    – Ambi
    Nov 26 at 14:22






  • 1




    @iammilind that goes directly in opposition to what Sri Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita 9.11 and Srimad Bhagavatam 10.14.2. It is a long shot to call Rama and Krishna as taking births or attaining moksha by the normal definition of human birth or their moksha, contrary to what has been explained by the acharyas of the past. And beyond that, there is no evidence that they 'attained moksha', esp. when sampradayic traditions clearly hold that they are the ones giving it. I did read the answer linked, but that is a overly simplistic conclusion, IMHO.
    – Ambi
    Nov 26 at 15:17






  • 1




    @iammilind clearly, then, we will have to disagree on that point of Krishna being in connection with some third entity just like we disagree on the nature of Rama and Krishna... either that they had consciousness that was less than perfect intitially (since both are non-different from Narayana) and became perfect over time or that they had material bodies that end like it did for normal humans.
    – Ambi
    Nov 27 at 2:05














  • 1




    @hanugm There is example of Bharat who became deer and then became Jada Bharat in Srimad Bhagavatam vedabase.com/en/sb/5 from chapter 7 onwards
    – RaRe
    Nov 26 at 11:25






  • 1




    "they would have fallen short of the perfection till their 2nd last birth"--- Rama & Krishna are incarnations (Adikarikas)...and for Adikarikas rule for moksha is different : hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/29615/12304
    – YDS
    Nov 26 at 13:05






  • 4




    @iammilind It is odd that you have mentioned Rama and Krishna in that list. Could you quote references that indicate that they were not liberated during their avatara leela and only got liberated at the end of their earthly stint?
    – Ambi
    Nov 26 at 14:22






  • 1




    @iammilind that goes directly in opposition to what Sri Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita 9.11 and Srimad Bhagavatam 10.14.2. It is a long shot to call Rama and Krishna as taking births or attaining moksha by the normal definition of human birth or their moksha, contrary to what has been explained by the acharyas of the past. And beyond that, there is no evidence that they 'attained moksha', esp. when sampradayic traditions clearly hold that they are the ones giving it. I did read the answer linked, but that is a overly simplistic conclusion, IMHO.
    – Ambi
    Nov 26 at 15:17






  • 1




    @iammilind clearly, then, we will have to disagree on that point of Krishna being in connection with some third entity just like we disagree on the nature of Rama and Krishna... either that they had consciousness that was less than perfect intitially (since both are non-different from Narayana) and became perfect over time or that they had material bodies that end like it did for normal humans.
    – Ambi
    Nov 27 at 2:05








1




1




@hanugm There is example of Bharat who became deer and then became Jada Bharat in Srimad Bhagavatam vedabase.com/en/sb/5 from chapter 7 onwards
– RaRe
Nov 26 at 11:25




@hanugm There is example of Bharat who became deer and then became Jada Bharat in Srimad Bhagavatam vedabase.com/en/sb/5 from chapter 7 onwards
– RaRe
Nov 26 at 11:25




1




1




"they would have fallen short of the perfection till their 2nd last birth"--- Rama & Krishna are incarnations (Adikarikas)...and for Adikarikas rule for moksha is different : hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/29615/12304
– YDS
Nov 26 at 13:05




"they would have fallen short of the perfection till their 2nd last birth"--- Rama & Krishna are incarnations (Adikarikas)...and for Adikarikas rule for moksha is different : hinduism.stackexchange.com/a/29615/12304
– YDS
Nov 26 at 13:05




4




4




@iammilind It is odd that you have mentioned Rama and Krishna in that list. Could you quote references that indicate that they were not liberated during their avatara leela and only got liberated at the end of their earthly stint?
– Ambi
Nov 26 at 14:22




@iammilind It is odd that you have mentioned Rama and Krishna in that list. Could you quote references that indicate that they were not liberated during their avatara leela and only got liberated at the end of their earthly stint?
– Ambi
Nov 26 at 14:22




1




1




@iammilind that goes directly in opposition to what Sri Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita 9.11 and Srimad Bhagavatam 10.14.2. It is a long shot to call Rama and Krishna as taking births or attaining moksha by the normal definition of human birth or their moksha, contrary to what has been explained by the acharyas of the past. And beyond that, there is no evidence that they 'attained moksha', esp. when sampradayic traditions clearly hold that they are the ones giving it. I did read the answer linked, but that is a overly simplistic conclusion, IMHO.
– Ambi
Nov 26 at 15:17




@iammilind that goes directly in opposition to what Sri Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita 9.11 and Srimad Bhagavatam 10.14.2. It is a long shot to call Rama and Krishna as taking births or attaining moksha by the normal definition of human birth or their moksha, contrary to what has been explained by the acharyas of the past. And beyond that, there is no evidence that they 'attained moksha', esp. when sampradayic traditions clearly hold that they are the ones giving it. I did read the answer linked, but that is a overly simplistic conclusion, IMHO.
– Ambi
Nov 26 at 15:17




1




1




@iammilind clearly, then, we will have to disagree on that point of Krishna being in connection with some third entity just like we disagree on the nature of Rama and Krishna... either that they had consciousness that was less than perfect intitially (since both are non-different from Narayana) and became perfect over time or that they had material bodies that end like it did for normal humans.
– Ambi
Nov 27 at 2:05




@iammilind clearly, then, we will have to disagree on that point of Krishna being in connection with some third entity just like we disagree on the nature of Rama and Krishna... either that they had consciousness that was less than perfect intitially (since both are non-different from Narayana) and became perfect over time or that they had material bodies that end like it did for normal humans.
– Ambi
Nov 27 at 2:05










up vote
8
down vote













Already User iammilind has quoted from 6th chapter of gita which clearly shows that one has to take birth until he is completely perfect.



One of the names of Lord Krishna or in fact all avatars of Vishnu is Mukunda.



The meaning of Mukunda is 'giver of mukti'.



So there is no question of Krishna/Ram getting liberated. They are never conditioned.



That's why Krishna says:



Bg 4.9 He who thus know, in their true light, My divine birth and action, having abandoned the body, is not born again, he comes to Me, O Arjuna



BG 4.14 There is no work that affects Me; nor do I aspire for the fruits of action. One who understands this truth about Me also does not become entangled in the fruitive reactions of work.



Few examples of human beings who got/going to get liberated:



1)Narada: He was a gandharva upabarhana in one life, then he took birth on earth, then in next life he became Narada




SB 7.15.69: Long, long ago, in another mahā-kalpa [millennium of
Brahmā], I existed as the Gandharva known as Upabarhaṇa. I was very
respected by the other Gandharvas.



SB 1.6.21: O Narada [the Lord spoke], I regret that during this
lifetime you will not be able to see Me anymore. Those who are
incomplete in service and who are not completely free from all
material taints can hardly see Me.




2)Jada Bharat:




There is example of Bharat who became deer and then became Jada
Bharat in Srimad Bhagavatam this chapter onwards.




3)King Mucukunda:




SB 10.51.63 — O King, in your very next life you will become an
excellent brāhmaṇa, the greatest well-wisher of all creatures, and
certainly come to Me alone.




4)Elephant Gajendra:




He was king Indradyumna in previous life, the story comes in 8th Canto
of Bhagavatam.




5)Nalkuvera and Manigriva:



They were gandharvas, cursed to become trees, then again reinstated and got benediction that they would never fall from their consciousness which means, that is going to be their life.




SB 10.10.42 — O Nalakūvara and Maṇigrīva, now you may both return
home. Since you desire to be always absorbed in My devotional service,
your desire to develop love and affection for Me will be fulfilled,
and now you will never fall from that platform.




6) King Chitraketu :



Chitraketu became Vrttasura in next life and then became perfect. Story comes from 6th Canto of Bhagavatam.



The examples of Sisupala, Dantavakra can be given, but they were Jaya and Vijaya in Vaikunta who were anyways destined to take 3 births and then liberated.






share|improve this answer























  • It seems in a bid to answer to my answer, you have missed to address the title of the question.
    – iammilind
    Nov 27 at 2:58










  • @iammilind I updated the answer. Anyways the question also mentioned Rama and Krishna in it. My answer is vaishnavite school perspective.
    – RaRe
    Nov 27 at 4:15















up vote
8
down vote













Already User iammilind has quoted from 6th chapter of gita which clearly shows that one has to take birth until he is completely perfect.



One of the names of Lord Krishna or in fact all avatars of Vishnu is Mukunda.



The meaning of Mukunda is 'giver of mukti'.



So there is no question of Krishna/Ram getting liberated. They are never conditioned.



That's why Krishna says:



Bg 4.9 He who thus know, in their true light, My divine birth and action, having abandoned the body, is not born again, he comes to Me, O Arjuna



BG 4.14 There is no work that affects Me; nor do I aspire for the fruits of action. One who understands this truth about Me also does not become entangled in the fruitive reactions of work.



Few examples of human beings who got/going to get liberated:



1)Narada: He was a gandharva upabarhana in one life, then he took birth on earth, then in next life he became Narada




SB 7.15.69: Long, long ago, in another mahā-kalpa [millennium of
Brahmā], I existed as the Gandharva known as Upabarhaṇa. I was very
respected by the other Gandharvas.



SB 1.6.21: O Narada [the Lord spoke], I regret that during this
lifetime you will not be able to see Me anymore. Those who are
incomplete in service and who are not completely free from all
material taints can hardly see Me.




2)Jada Bharat:




There is example of Bharat who became deer and then became Jada
Bharat in Srimad Bhagavatam this chapter onwards.




3)King Mucukunda:




SB 10.51.63 — O King, in your very next life you will become an
excellent brāhmaṇa, the greatest well-wisher of all creatures, and
certainly come to Me alone.




4)Elephant Gajendra:




He was king Indradyumna in previous life, the story comes in 8th Canto
of Bhagavatam.




5)Nalkuvera and Manigriva:



They were gandharvas, cursed to become trees, then again reinstated and got benediction that they would never fall from their consciousness which means, that is going to be their life.




SB 10.10.42 — O Nalakūvara and Maṇigrīva, now you may both return
home. Since you desire to be always absorbed in My devotional service,
your desire to develop love and affection for Me will be fulfilled,
and now you will never fall from that platform.




6) King Chitraketu :



Chitraketu became Vrttasura in next life and then became perfect. Story comes from 6th Canto of Bhagavatam.



The examples of Sisupala, Dantavakra can be given, but they were Jaya and Vijaya in Vaikunta who were anyways destined to take 3 births and then liberated.






share|improve this answer























  • It seems in a bid to answer to my answer, you have missed to address the title of the question.
    – iammilind
    Nov 27 at 2:58










  • @iammilind I updated the answer. Anyways the question also mentioned Rama and Krishna in it. My answer is vaishnavite school perspective.
    – RaRe
    Nov 27 at 4:15













up vote
8
down vote










up vote
8
down vote









Already User iammilind has quoted from 6th chapter of gita which clearly shows that one has to take birth until he is completely perfect.



One of the names of Lord Krishna or in fact all avatars of Vishnu is Mukunda.



The meaning of Mukunda is 'giver of mukti'.



So there is no question of Krishna/Ram getting liberated. They are never conditioned.



That's why Krishna says:



Bg 4.9 He who thus know, in their true light, My divine birth and action, having abandoned the body, is not born again, he comes to Me, O Arjuna



BG 4.14 There is no work that affects Me; nor do I aspire for the fruits of action. One who understands this truth about Me also does not become entangled in the fruitive reactions of work.



Few examples of human beings who got/going to get liberated:



1)Narada: He was a gandharva upabarhana in one life, then he took birth on earth, then in next life he became Narada




SB 7.15.69: Long, long ago, in another mahā-kalpa [millennium of
Brahmā], I existed as the Gandharva known as Upabarhaṇa. I was very
respected by the other Gandharvas.



SB 1.6.21: O Narada [the Lord spoke], I regret that during this
lifetime you will not be able to see Me anymore. Those who are
incomplete in service and who are not completely free from all
material taints can hardly see Me.




2)Jada Bharat:




There is example of Bharat who became deer and then became Jada
Bharat in Srimad Bhagavatam this chapter onwards.




3)King Mucukunda:




SB 10.51.63 — O King, in your very next life you will become an
excellent brāhmaṇa, the greatest well-wisher of all creatures, and
certainly come to Me alone.




4)Elephant Gajendra:




He was king Indradyumna in previous life, the story comes in 8th Canto
of Bhagavatam.




5)Nalkuvera and Manigriva:



They were gandharvas, cursed to become trees, then again reinstated and got benediction that they would never fall from their consciousness which means, that is going to be their life.




SB 10.10.42 — O Nalakūvara and Maṇigrīva, now you may both return
home. Since you desire to be always absorbed in My devotional service,
your desire to develop love and affection for Me will be fulfilled,
and now you will never fall from that platform.




6) King Chitraketu :



Chitraketu became Vrttasura in next life and then became perfect. Story comes from 6th Canto of Bhagavatam.



The examples of Sisupala, Dantavakra can be given, but they were Jaya and Vijaya in Vaikunta who were anyways destined to take 3 births and then liberated.






share|improve this answer














Already User iammilind has quoted from 6th chapter of gita which clearly shows that one has to take birth until he is completely perfect.



One of the names of Lord Krishna or in fact all avatars of Vishnu is Mukunda.



The meaning of Mukunda is 'giver of mukti'.



So there is no question of Krishna/Ram getting liberated. They are never conditioned.



That's why Krishna says:



Bg 4.9 He who thus know, in their true light, My divine birth and action, having abandoned the body, is not born again, he comes to Me, O Arjuna



BG 4.14 There is no work that affects Me; nor do I aspire for the fruits of action. One who understands this truth about Me also does not become entangled in the fruitive reactions of work.



Few examples of human beings who got/going to get liberated:



1)Narada: He was a gandharva upabarhana in one life, then he took birth on earth, then in next life he became Narada




SB 7.15.69: Long, long ago, in another mahā-kalpa [millennium of
Brahmā], I existed as the Gandharva known as Upabarhaṇa. I was very
respected by the other Gandharvas.



SB 1.6.21: O Narada [the Lord spoke], I regret that during this
lifetime you will not be able to see Me anymore. Those who are
incomplete in service and who are not completely free from all
material taints can hardly see Me.




2)Jada Bharat:




There is example of Bharat who became deer and then became Jada
Bharat in Srimad Bhagavatam this chapter onwards.




3)King Mucukunda:




SB 10.51.63 — O King, in your very next life you will become an
excellent brāhmaṇa, the greatest well-wisher of all creatures, and
certainly come to Me alone.




4)Elephant Gajendra:




He was king Indradyumna in previous life, the story comes in 8th Canto
of Bhagavatam.




5)Nalkuvera and Manigriva:



They were gandharvas, cursed to become trees, then again reinstated and got benediction that they would never fall from their consciousness which means, that is going to be their life.




SB 10.10.42 — O Nalakūvara and Maṇigrīva, now you may both return
home. Since you desire to be always absorbed in My devotional service,
your desire to develop love and affection for Me will be fulfilled,
and now you will never fall from that platform.




6) King Chitraketu :



Chitraketu became Vrttasura in next life and then became perfect. Story comes from 6th Canto of Bhagavatam.



The examples of Sisupala, Dantavakra can be given, but they were Jaya and Vijaya in Vaikunta who were anyways destined to take 3 births and then liberated.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Nov 27 at 3:44

























answered Nov 26 at 16:50









RaRe

1,343319




1,343319












  • It seems in a bid to answer to my answer, you have missed to address the title of the question.
    – iammilind
    Nov 27 at 2:58










  • @iammilind I updated the answer. Anyways the question also mentioned Rama and Krishna in it. My answer is vaishnavite school perspective.
    – RaRe
    Nov 27 at 4:15


















  • It seems in a bid to answer to my answer, you have missed to address the title of the question.
    – iammilind
    Nov 27 at 2:58










  • @iammilind I updated the answer. Anyways the question also mentioned Rama and Krishna in it. My answer is vaishnavite school perspective.
    – RaRe
    Nov 27 at 4:15
















It seems in a bid to answer to my answer, you have missed to address the title of the question.
– iammilind
Nov 27 at 2:58




It seems in a bid to answer to my answer, you have missed to address the title of the question.
– iammilind
Nov 27 at 2:58












@iammilind I updated the answer. Anyways the question also mentioned Rama and Krishna in it. My answer is vaishnavite school perspective.
– RaRe
Nov 27 at 4:15




@iammilind I updated the answer. Anyways the question also mentioned Rama and Krishna in it. My answer is vaishnavite school perspective.
– RaRe
Nov 27 at 4:15










up vote
1
down vote













Only Ishwar Kotis can return



http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/gospel/volume_1/26_festival_at_adhars.htm



From Gospels of Ramakrishna Paramhans




Yoga and the six centres



MASTER: "Yoga is not possible if the mind dwells on 'woman and gold'.
The mind of a worldly man generally moves among the three lower
centres: those at the navel, at the sexual organ, and at the organ of
evacuation. After great effort and spiritual practice the Kundalini is
awakened. According to the yogis there are three nerves in the spinal
column: Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna. Along the Sushumna are six
lotuses, or centres, the lowest being known as the Muladhara. Then
come successively Svadhisthana, Manipura, Anāhata, Visuddha, and Ājnā.
These are the six centres. The Kundalini, when awakened, passes
through the lower centres and comes to the Anāhata, which is at the
heart. It stays there. At that time the mind of the aspirant is
withdrawn from the three lower centres. He feels the awakening of
Divine Consciousness and sees Light. In mute wonder he sees that
radiance and cries out: 'What is this? What is this?'



"After passing through the six centres, the Kundalini reaches the
thousand petalled lotus known as the Sahasrara, and the aspirant goes
into samādhi.



"According to the Vedas these centres are called 'bhumi', 'planes'.
There are seven such planes. The centre at the heart corresponds to
the fourth plane of the Vedas. According to the Tantra there is in
this centre a lotus called Anāhata, with twelve petals.



"The centre known as Visuddha is the fifth plane. This centre is at
the throat and has a lotus with sixteen petals. When the Kundalini
reaches this plane, the devotee longs to talk and hear only about God.
Conversation on worldly subjects, on 'woman and gold', causes him
great pain. He leaves a place where people talk of these matters.



"Then comes the sixth plane, corresponding to the centre known as
Ājnā. This centre is located between the eyebrows and it has a lotus
with two petals. When the Kundalini reaches it, the aspirant sees the
form of God. But still there remains a slight barrier between the
devotee and God. It is like a light inside a lantern. You may think
you have touched the light, but in reality you cannot because of the
barrier of glass.



"And last of all is the seventh plane, which, according to Tantra, is
the centre of the thousand-petalled lotus. When the Kundalini arrives
there, the aspirant goes into samādhi. In that lotus dwells
Satchidananda Shiva, the Absolute. There Kundalini, the awakened
Power, unites with Shiva. This is known as the union of Shiva and
Śakti.



The state of samādhi



"When the Kundalini rises to the Sahasrara and the mind goes into
samādhi, the aspirant loses all consciousness of the outer world. He
can no longer retain his physical body. If milk is poured into his
mouth, it runs out again. In that state the life-breath lingers for
twenty-one days and then passes out. Entering the 'black waters' of
the ocean, the ship never comes back. But the Isvarakotis, such as the
Incarnations of God, can come down from this state of samādhi. They
can descend from this exalted state because they like to live in the
company of devotees and enjoy the love of God. God retains in them the
'ego of Knowledge' or the 'ego of Devotion' so that they may teach
men.
Their minds move between the sixth and the seventh planes. They
run a boat-race back and forth, as it were, between these two planes







share|improve this answer





















  • Good Answer. I was about to post on Isvarakotis as well. You should probably remove most of the non bold parts as it's not related to question.
    – Chinmay Sarupria
    Nov 27 at 12:58










  • well, Z cant be reached without starting from A. Seven Chakras or 7 days of week or 7 Grahas+Rahu/Ketu is what all of creation lives and their horoscope lives in.
    – user16755
    Nov 27 at 15:08















up vote
1
down vote













Only Ishwar Kotis can return



http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/gospel/volume_1/26_festival_at_adhars.htm



From Gospels of Ramakrishna Paramhans




Yoga and the six centres



MASTER: "Yoga is not possible if the mind dwells on 'woman and gold'.
The mind of a worldly man generally moves among the three lower
centres: those at the navel, at the sexual organ, and at the organ of
evacuation. After great effort and spiritual practice the Kundalini is
awakened. According to the yogis there are three nerves in the spinal
column: Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna. Along the Sushumna are six
lotuses, or centres, the lowest being known as the Muladhara. Then
come successively Svadhisthana, Manipura, Anāhata, Visuddha, and Ājnā.
These are the six centres. The Kundalini, when awakened, passes
through the lower centres and comes to the Anāhata, which is at the
heart. It stays there. At that time the mind of the aspirant is
withdrawn from the three lower centres. He feels the awakening of
Divine Consciousness and sees Light. In mute wonder he sees that
radiance and cries out: 'What is this? What is this?'



"After passing through the six centres, the Kundalini reaches the
thousand petalled lotus known as the Sahasrara, and the aspirant goes
into samādhi.



"According to the Vedas these centres are called 'bhumi', 'planes'.
There are seven such planes. The centre at the heart corresponds to
the fourth plane of the Vedas. According to the Tantra there is in
this centre a lotus called Anāhata, with twelve petals.



"The centre known as Visuddha is the fifth plane. This centre is at
the throat and has a lotus with sixteen petals. When the Kundalini
reaches this plane, the devotee longs to talk and hear only about God.
Conversation on worldly subjects, on 'woman and gold', causes him
great pain. He leaves a place where people talk of these matters.



"Then comes the sixth plane, corresponding to the centre known as
Ājnā. This centre is located between the eyebrows and it has a lotus
with two petals. When the Kundalini reaches it, the aspirant sees the
form of God. But still there remains a slight barrier between the
devotee and God. It is like a light inside a lantern. You may think
you have touched the light, but in reality you cannot because of the
barrier of glass.



"And last of all is the seventh plane, which, according to Tantra, is
the centre of the thousand-petalled lotus. When the Kundalini arrives
there, the aspirant goes into samādhi. In that lotus dwells
Satchidananda Shiva, the Absolute. There Kundalini, the awakened
Power, unites with Shiva. This is known as the union of Shiva and
Śakti.



The state of samādhi



"When the Kundalini rises to the Sahasrara and the mind goes into
samādhi, the aspirant loses all consciousness of the outer world. He
can no longer retain his physical body. If milk is poured into his
mouth, it runs out again. In that state the life-breath lingers for
twenty-one days and then passes out. Entering the 'black waters' of
the ocean, the ship never comes back. But the Isvarakotis, such as the
Incarnations of God, can come down from this state of samādhi. They
can descend from this exalted state because they like to live in the
company of devotees and enjoy the love of God. God retains in them the
'ego of Knowledge' or the 'ego of Devotion' so that they may teach
men.
Their minds move between the sixth and the seventh planes. They
run a boat-race back and forth, as it were, between these two planes







share|improve this answer





















  • Good Answer. I was about to post on Isvarakotis as well. You should probably remove most of the non bold parts as it's not related to question.
    – Chinmay Sarupria
    Nov 27 at 12:58










  • well, Z cant be reached without starting from A. Seven Chakras or 7 days of week or 7 Grahas+Rahu/Ketu is what all of creation lives and their horoscope lives in.
    – user16755
    Nov 27 at 15:08













up vote
1
down vote










up vote
1
down vote









Only Ishwar Kotis can return



http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/gospel/volume_1/26_festival_at_adhars.htm



From Gospels of Ramakrishna Paramhans




Yoga and the six centres



MASTER: "Yoga is not possible if the mind dwells on 'woman and gold'.
The mind of a worldly man generally moves among the three lower
centres: those at the navel, at the sexual organ, and at the organ of
evacuation. After great effort and spiritual practice the Kundalini is
awakened. According to the yogis there are three nerves in the spinal
column: Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna. Along the Sushumna are six
lotuses, or centres, the lowest being known as the Muladhara. Then
come successively Svadhisthana, Manipura, Anāhata, Visuddha, and Ājnā.
These are the six centres. The Kundalini, when awakened, passes
through the lower centres and comes to the Anāhata, which is at the
heart. It stays there. At that time the mind of the aspirant is
withdrawn from the three lower centres. He feels the awakening of
Divine Consciousness and sees Light. In mute wonder he sees that
radiance and cries out: 'What is this? What is this?'



"After passing through the six centres, the Kundalini reaches the
thousand petalled lotus known as the Sahasrara, and the aspirant goes
into samādhi.



"According to the Vedas these centres are called 'bhumi', 'planes'.
There are seven such planes. The centre at the heart corresponds to
the fourth plane of the Vedas. According to the Tantra there is in
this centre a lotus called Anāhata, with twelve petals.



"The centre known as Visuddha is the fifth plane. This centre is at
the throat and has a lotus with sixteen petals. When the Kundalini
reaches this plane, the devotee longs to talk and hear only about God.
Conversation on worldly subjects, on 'woman and gold', causes him
great pain. He leaves a place where people talk of these matters.



"Then comes the sixth plane, corresponding to the centre known as
Ājnā. This centre is located between the eyebrows and it has a lotus
with two petals. When the Kundalini reaches it, the aspirant sees the
form of God. But still there remains a slight barrier between the
devotee and God. It is like a light inside a lantern. You may think
you have touched the light, but in reality you cannot because of the
barrier of glass.



"And last of all is the seventh plane, which, according to Tantra, is
the centre of the thousand-petalled lotus. When the Kundalini arrives
there, the aspirant goes into samādhi. In that lotus dwells
Satchidananda Shiva, the Absolute. There Kundalini, the awakened
Power, unites with Shiva. This is known as the union of Shiva and
Śakti.



The state of samādhi



"When the Kundalini rises to the Sahasrara and the mind goes into
samādhi, the aspirant loses all consciousness of the outer world. He
can no longer retain his physical body. If milk is poured into his
mouth, it runs out again. In that state the life-breath lingers for
twenty-one days and then passes out. Entering the 'black waters' of
the ocean, the ship never comes back. But the Isvarakotis, such as the
Incarnations of God, can come down from this state of samādhi. They
can descend from this exalted state because they like to live in the
company of devotees and enjoy the love of God. God retains in them the
'ego of Knowledge' or the 'ego of Devotion' so that they may teach
men.
Their minds move between the sixth and the seventh planes. They
run a boat-race back and forth, as it were, between these two planes







share|improve this answer












Only Ishwar Kotis can return



http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/gospel/volume_1/26_festival_at_adhars.htm



From Gospels of Ramakrishna Paramhans




Yoga and the six centres



MASTER: "Yoga is not possible if the mind dwells on 'woman and gold'.
The mind of a worldly man generally moves among the three lower
centres: those at the navel, at the sexual organ, and at the organ of
evacuation. After great effort and spiritual practice the Kundalini is
awakened. According to the yogis there are three nerves in the spinal
column: Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna. Along the Sushumna are six
lotuses, or centres, the lowest being known as the Muladhara. Then
come successively Svadhisthana, Manipura, Anāhata, Visuddha, and Ājnā.
These are the six centres. The Kundalini, when awakened, passes
through the lower centres and comes to the Anāhata, which is at the
heart. It stays there. At that time the mind of the aspirant is
withdrawn from the three lower centres. He feels the awakening of
Divine Consciousness and sees Light. In mute wonder he sees that
radiance and cries out: 'What is this? What is this?'



"After passing through the six centres, the Kundalini reaches the
thousand petalled lotus known as the Sahasrara, and the aspirant goes
into samādhi.



"According to the Vedas these centres are called 'bhumi', 'planes'.
There are seven such planes. The centre at the heart corresponds to
the fourth plane of the Vedas. According to the Tantra there is in
this centre a lotus called Anāhata, with twelve petals.



"The centre known as Visuddha is the fifth plane. This centre is at
the throat and has a lotus with sixteen petals. When the Kundalini
reaches this plane, the devotee longs to talk and hear only about God.
Conversation on worldly subjects, on 'woman and gold', causes him
great pain. He leaves a place where people talk of these matters.



"Then comes the sixth plane, corresponding to the centre known as
Ājnā. This centre is located between the eyebrows and it has a lotus
with two petals. When the Kundalini reaches it, the aspirant sees the
form of God. But still there remains a slight barrier between the
devotee and God. It is like a light inside a lantern. You may think
you have touched the light, but in reality you cannot because of the
barrier of glass.



"And last of all is the seventh plane, which, according to Tantra, is
the centre of the thousand-petalled lotus. When the Kundalini arrives
there, the aspirant goes into samādhi. In that lotus dwells
Satchidananda Shiva, the Absolute. There Kundalini, the awakened
Power, unites with Shiva. This is known as the union of Shiva and
Śakti.



The state of samādhi



"When the Kundalini rises to the Sahasrara and the mind goes into
samādhi, the aspirant loses all consciousness of the outer world. He
can no longer retain his physical body. If milk is poured into his
mouth, it runs out again. In that state the life-breath lingers for
twenty-one days and then passes out. Entering the 'black waters' of
the ocean, the ship never comes back. But the Isvarakotis, such as the
Incarnations of God, can come down from this state of samādhi. They
can descend from this exalted state because they like to live in the
company of devotees and enjoy the love of God. God retains in them the
'ego of Knowledge' or the 'ego of Devotion' so that they may teach
men.
Their minds move between the sixth and the seventh planes. They
run a boat-race back and forth, as it were, between these two planes








share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Nov 26 at 17:15







user16755



















  • Good Answer. I was about to post on Isvarakotis as well. You should probably remove most of the non bold parts as it's not related to question.
    – Chinmay Sarupria
    Nov 27 at 12:58










  • well, Z cant be reached without starting from A. Seven Chakras or 7 days of week or 7 Grahas+Rahu/Ketu is what all of creation lives and their horoscope lives in.
    – user16755
    Nov 27 at 15:08


















  • Good Answer. I was about to post on Isvarakotis as well. You should probably remove most of the non bold parts as it's not related to question.
    – Chinmay Sarupria
    Nov 27 at 12:58










  • well, Z cant be reached without starting from A. Seven Chakras or 7 days of week or 7 Grahas+Rahu/Ketu is what all of creation lives and their horoscope lives in.
    – user16755
    Nov 27 at 15:08
















Good Answer. I was about to post on Isvarakotis as well. You should probably remove most of the non bold parts as it's not related to question.
– Chinmay Sarupria
Nov 27 at 12:58




Good Answer. I was about to post on Isvarakotis as well. You should probably remove most of the non bold parts as it's not related to question.
– Chinmay Sarupria
Nov 27 at 12:58












well, Z cant be reached without starting from A. Seven Chakras or 7 days of week or 7 Grahas+Rahu/Ketu is what all of creation lives and their horoscope lives in.
– user16755
Nov 27 at 15:08




well, Z cant be reached without starting from A. Seven Chakras or 7 days of week or 7 Grahas+Rahu/Ketu is what all of creation lives and their horoscope lives in.
– user16755
Nov 27 at 15:08



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