Why does a 97 / 92 key piano exist by Bösendorfer?
23
Pianos normally have 88 keys, ranging from A0 to C8. One of Bösendorfer's pianos go down to F below the low A. The other model goes down to C. How did this happen?
piano history
edited 2 days ago
Richard
43.4k7100186
asked Mar 19 at 23:33
Maika SakuranomiyaMaika Sakuranomiya
9091429
add a comment |
23
Pianos normally have 88 keys, ranging from A0 to C8. One of Bösendorfer's pianos go down to F below the low A. The other model goes down to C. How did this happen?
piano history
edited 2 days ago
Richard
43.4k7100186
asked Mar 19 at 23:33
Maika SakuranomiyaMaika Sakuranomiya
9091429
6
Personally, I'd ask the opposite question - why did everybody else stop at 88? I mean, I very rarely see any music which uses the top or bottom octave on a standard 88, but that's no reason to not give people the option. Also, if you're looking at any music, say, before mid-Beethoven, they only had a 5-octave range anyhow, so composers faced the same limitations as players. Who knows what they would've written had they the range to do so? You can even see in some early Beethoven where he was struggling to fit certain motifs within the range of the smaller pianos that existed at the time.
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
2
@DarrelHoffman - I've seen the bottom octave of the piano used often enough in classical music. In several of those cases, I've even seen those notes notated with ledger lines but no ottava lines.
– Dekkadeci
2 days ago
add a comment |
23
23
23
1
Pianos normally have 88 keys, ranging from A0 to C8. One of Bösendorfer's pianos go down to F below the low A. The other model goes down to C. How did this happen?
piano history
edited 2 days ago
Richard
43.4k7100186
asked Mar 19 at 23:33
Maika SakuranomiyaMaika Sakuranomiya
9091429
Pianos normally have 88 keys, ranging from A0 to C8. One of Bösendorfer's pianos go down to F below the low A. The other model goes down to C. How did this happen?
piano history
piano history
edited 2 days ago
Richard
43.4k7100186
asked Mar 19 at 23:33
Maika SakuranomiyaMaika Sakuranomiya
9091429
edited 2 days ago
Richard
43.4k7100186
asked Mar 19 at 23:33
Maika SakuranomiyaMaika Sakuranomiya
9091429
edited 2 days ago
Richard
43.4k7100186
edited 2 days ago
Richard
43.4k7100186
edited 2 days ago
Richard
43.4k7100186
43.4k7100186
asked Mar 19 at 23:33
Maika SakuranomiyaMaika Sakuranomiya
9091429
asked Mar 19 at 23:33
Maika SakuranomiyaMaika Sakuranomiya
9091429
asked Mar 19 at 23:33
Maika SakuranomiyaMaika Sakuranomiya
9091429
9091429
6
Personally, I'd ask the opposite question - why did everybody else stop at 88? I mean, I very rarely see any music which uses the top or bottom octave on a standard 88, but that's no reason to not give people the option. Also, if you're looking at any music, say, before mid-Beethoven, they only had a 5-octave range anyhow, so composers faced the same limitations as players. Who knows what they would've written had they the range to do so? You can even see in some early Beethoven where he was struggling to fit certain motifs within the range of the smaller pianos that existed at the time.
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
2
@DarrelHoffman - I've seen the bottom octave of the piano used often enough in classical music. In several of those cases, I've even seen those notes notated with ledger lines but no ottava lines.
– Dekkadeci
2 days ago
add a comment |
6
Personally, I'd ask the opposite question - why did everybody else stop at 88? I mean, I very rarely see any music which uses the top or bottom octave on a standard 88, but that's no reason to not give people the option. Also, if you're looking at any music, say, before mid-Beethoven, they only had a 5-octave range anyhow, so composers faced the same limitations as players. Who knows what they would've written had they the range to do so? You can even see in some early Beethoven where he was struggling to fit certain motifs within the range of the smaller pianos that existed at the time.
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
2
@DarrelHoffman - I've seen the bottom octave of the piano used often enough in classical music. In several of those cases, I've even seen those notes notated with ledger lines but no ottava lines.
– Dekkadeci
2 days ago
6
6
Personally, I'd ask the opposite question - why did everybody else stop at 88? I mean, I very rarely see any music which uses the top or bottom octave on a standard 88, but that's no reason to not give people the option. Also, if you're looking at any music, say, before mid-Beethoven, they only had a 5-octave range anyhow, so composers faced the same limitations as players. Who knows what they would've written had they the range to do so? You can even see in some early Beethoven where he was struggling to fit certain motifs within the range of the smaller pianos that existed at the time.
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
Personally, I'd ask the opposite question - why did everybody else stop at 88? I mean, I very rarely see any music which uses the top or bottom octave on a standard 88, but that's no reason to not give people the option. Also, if you're looking at any music, say, before mid-Beethoven, they only had a 5-octave range anyhow, so composers faced the same limitations as players. Who knows what they would've written had they the range to do so? You can even see in some early Beethoven where he was struggling to fit certain motifs within the range of the smaller pianos that existed at the time.
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
2
2
@DarrelHoffman - I've seen the bottom octave of the piano used often enough in classical music. In several of those cases, I've even seen those notes notated with ledger lines but no ottava lines.
– Dekkadeci
2 days ago
@DarrelHoffman - I've seen the bottom octave of the piano used often enough in classical music. In several of those cases, I've even seen those notes notated with ledger lines but no ottava lines.
– Dekkadeci
2 days ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
31
These extended Bösendorfer ranges go back to Busoni's day. He wanted to match the range of pipe organs, as he was making transcriptions of J. S. Bach's organ works at the time.
edited 2 days ago
Russell Borogove
1336
answered Mar 19 at 23:38
repletereplete
3,258722
5
@CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.
– Mohair
2 days ago
1
And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...
– Hobbes
2 days ago
add a comment |
34
replete's answer is correct that the original reason was to have a bigger range, as needed for some organ music. However, I don't think that's the reason those Imperial models are so sought-for over all these years – actually playing the lowest notest is scarcely musically useful.
The reason why people want Bösendorfer Imperial is that they sound awesome, even when the low strings aren't played. This probably has two main reasons:
- The big sound frame is better at transmitting all frequencies, in particular those on the low end of the regular range. These strings aren't already at the very limit of what the resonator can do, like they are on many other pianos, but still in the range of what it can comfortably do, so thundering octaves actually thunder and don't just “clank”.
- The low strings give a denser sympathetic-resonance spectrum, when the pedal is pushed. As a result, a Bösendorfer has a richer sound even in high, soft, legato passages.
answered 2 days ago
leftaroundaboutleftaroundabout
20.4k3690
12
Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
add a comment |
8
Yep. There's of course another reason than cannot be underestimated: bling.
answered 2 days ago
Scott WallaceScott Wallace
4,4711017
5
Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.
– Scott Wallace
2 days ago
I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?
– David K
20 hours ago
@DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?
– Scott Wallace
14 hours ago
I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.
– David K
11 hours ago
Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.
– Scott Wallace
8 hours ago
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
31
These extended Bösendorfer ranges go back to Busoni's day. He wanted to match the range of pipe organs, as he was making transcriptions of J. S. Bach's organ works at the time.
edited 2 days ago
Russell Borogove
1336
answered Mar 19 at 23:38
repletereplete
3,258722
5
@CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.
– Mohair
2 days ago
1
And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...
– Hobbes
2 days ago
add a comment |
31
These extended Bösendorfer ranges go back to Busoni's day. He wanted to match the range of pipe organs, as he was making transcriptions of J. S. Bach's organ works at the time.
edited 2 days ago
Russell Borogove
1336
answered Mar 19 at 23:38
repletereplete
3,258722
5
@CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.
– Mohair
2 days ago
1
And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...
– Hobbes
2 days ago
add a comment |
31
31
31
These extended Bösendorfer ranges go back to Busoni's day. He wanted to match the range of pipe organs, as he was making transcriptions of J. S. Bach's organ works at the time.
edited 2 days ago
Russell Borogove
1336
answered Mar 19 at 23:38
repletereplete
3,258722
These extended Bösendorfer ranges go back to Busoni's day. He wanted to match the range of pipe organs, as he was making transcriptions of J. S. Bach's organ works at the time.
edited 2 days ago
Russell Borogove
1336
answered Mar 19 at 23:38
repletereplete
3,258722
edited 2 days ago
Russell Borogove
1336
edited 2 days ago
Russell Borogove
1336
edited 2 days ago
Russell Borogove
1336
1336
answered Mar 19 at 23:38
repletereplete
3,258722
answered Mar 19 at 23:38
repletereplete
3,258722
answered Mar 19 at 23:38
repletereplete
3,258722
3,258722
5
@CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.
– Mohair
2 days ago
1
And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...
– Hobbes
2 days ago
add a comment |
5
@CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.
– Mohair
2 days ago
1
And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...
– Hobbes
2 days ago
5
5
@CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.
– Mohair
2 days ago
@CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.
– Mohair
2 days ago
1
1
And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...
– Hobbes
2 days ago
And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...
– Hobbes
2 days ago
add a comment |
34
replete's answer is correct that the original reason was to have a bigger range, as needed for some organ music. However, I don't think that's the reason those Imperial models are so sought-for over all these years – actually playing the lowest notest is scarcely musically useful.
The reason why people want Bösendorfer Imperial is that they sound awesome, even when the low strings aren't played. This probably has two main reasons:
- The big sound frame is better at transmitting all frequencies, in particular those on the low end of the regular range. These strings aren't already at the very limit of what the resonator can do, like they are on many other pianos, but still in the range of what it can comfortably do, so thundering octaves actually thunder and don't just “clank”.
- The low strings give a denser sympathetic-resonance spectrum, when the pedal is pushed. As a result, a Bösendorfer has a richer sound even in high, soft, legato passages.
answered 2 days ago
leftaroundaboutleftaroundabout
20.4k3690
12
Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
add a comment |
34
replete's answer is correct that the original reason was to have a bigger range, as needed for some organ music. However, I don't think that's the reason those Imperial models are so sought-for over all these years – actually playing the lowest notest is scarcely musically useful.
The reason why people want Bösendorfer Imperial is that they sound awesome, even when the low strings aren't played. This probably has two main reasons:
- The big sound frame is better at transmitting all frequencies, in particular those on the low end of the regular range. These strings aren't already at the very limit of what the resonator can do, like they are on many other pianos, but still in the range of what it can comfortably do, so thundering octaves actually thunder and don't just “clank”.
- The low strings give a denser sympathetic-resonance spectrum, when the pedal is pushed. As a result, a Bösendorfer has a richer sound even in high, soft, legato passages.
answered 2 days ago
leftaroundaboutleftaroundabout
20.4k3690
12
Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
add a comment |
34
34
34
replete's answer is correct that the original reason was to have a bigger range, as needed for some organ music. However, I don't think that's the reason those Imperial models are so sought-for over all these years – actually playing the lowest notest is scarcely musically useful.
The reason why people want Bösendorfer Imperial is that they sound awesome, even when the low strings aren't played. This probably has two main reasons:
- The big sound frame is better at transmitting all frequencies, in particular those on the low end of the regular range. These strings aren't already at the very limit of what the resonator can do, like they are on many other pianos, but still in the range of what it can comfortably do, so thundering octaves actually thunder and don't just “clank”.
- The low strings give a denser sympathetic-resonance spectrum, when the pedal is pushed. As a result, a Bösendorfer has a richer sound even in high, soft, legato passages.
answered 2 days ago
leftaroundaboutleftaroundabout
20.4k3690
replete's answer is correct that the original reason was to have a bigger range, as needed for some organ music. However, I don't think that's the reason those Imperial models are so sought-for over all these years – actually playing the lowest notest is scarcely musically useful.
The reason why people want Bösendorfer Imperial is that they sound awesome, even when the low strings aren't played. This probably has two main reasons:
- The big sound frame is better at transmitting all frequencies, in particular those on the low end of the regular range. These strings aren't already at the very limit of what the resonator can do, like they are on many other pianos, but still in the range of what it can comfortably do, so thundering octaves actually thunder and don't just “clank”.
- The low strings give a denser sympathetic-resonance spectrum, when the pedal is pushed. As a result, a Bösendorfer has a richer sound even in high, soft, legato passages.
answered 2 days ago
leftaroundaboutleftaroundabout
20.4k3690
answered 2 days ago
leftaroundaboutleftaroundabout
20.4k3690
answered 2 days ago
leftaroundaboutleftaroundabout
20.4k3690
answered 2 days ago
leftaroundaboutleftaroundabout
20.4k3690
20.4k3690
12
Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
add a comment |
12
Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
12
12
Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)
– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago
add a comment |
8
Yep. There's of course another reason than cannot be underestimated: bling.
answered 2 days ago
Scott WallaceScott Wallace
4,4711017
5
Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.
– Scott Wallace
2 days ago
I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?
– David K
20 hours ago
@DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?
– Scott Wallace
14 hours ago
I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.
– David K
11 hours ago
Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.
– Scott Wallace
8 hours ago
add a comment |
8
Yep. There's of course another reason than cannot be underestimated: bling.
answered 2 days ago
Scott WallaceScott Wallace
4,4711017
5
Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.
– Scott Wallace
2 days ago
I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?
– David K
20 hours ago
@DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?
– Scott Wallace
14 hours ago
I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.
– David K
11 hours ago
Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.
– Scott Wallace
8 hours ago
add a comment |
8
8
8
Yep. There's of course another reason than cannot be underestimated: bling.
answered 2 days ago
Scott WallaceScott Wallace
4,4711017
Yep. There's of course another reason than cannot be underestimated: bling.
answered 2 days ago
Scott WallaceScott Wallace
4,4711017
answered 2 days ago
Scott WallaceScott Wallace
4,4711017
answered 2 days ago
Scott WallaceScott Wallace
4,4711017
answered 2 days ago
Scott WallaceScott Wallace
4,4711017
4,4711017
5
Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.
– Scott Wallace
2 days ago
I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?
– David K
20 hours ago
@DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?
– Scott Wallace
14 hours ago
I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.
– David K
11 hours ago
Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.
– Scott Wallace
8 hours ago
add a comment |
5
Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.
– Scott Wallace
2 days ago
I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?
– David K
20 hours ago
@DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?
– Scott Wallace
14 hours ago
I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.
– David K
11 hours ago
Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.
– Scott Wallace
8 hours ago
5
5
Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.
– Scott Wallace
2 days ago
Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.
– Scott Wallace
2 days ago
I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?
– David K
20 hours ago
I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?
– David K
20 hours ago
@DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?
– Scott Wallace
14 hours ago
@DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?
– Scott Wallace
14 hours ago
I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.
– David K
11 hours ago
I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.
– David K
11 hours ago
Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.
– Scott Wallace
8 hours ago
Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.
– Scott Wallace
8 hours ago
add a comment |
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6
Personally, I'd ask the opposite question - why did everybody else stop at 88? I mean, I very rarely see any music which uses the top or bottom octave on a standard 88, but that's no reason to not give people the option. Also, if you're looking at any music, say, before mid-Beethoven, they only had a 5-octave range anyhow, so composers faced the same limitations as players. Who knows what they would've written had they the range to do so? You can even see in some early Beethoven where he was struggling to fit certain motifs within the range of the smaller pianos that existed at the time.
– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago
2
@DarrelHoffman - I've seen the bottom octave of the piano used often enough in classical music. In several of those cases, I've even seen those notes notated with ledger lines but no ottava lines.
– Dekkadeci
2 days ago