Why does a 97 / 92 key piano exist by Bösendorfer?












23















Pianos normally have 88 keys, ranging from A0 to C8. One of Bösendorfer's pianos go down to F below the low A. The other model goes down to C. How did this happen?






piano history







share|improve this question




















  • 6





    Personally, I'd ask the opposite question - why did everybody else stop at 88? I mean, I very rarely see any music which uses the top or bottom octave on a standard 88, but that's no reason to not give people the option. Also, if you're looking at any music, say, before mid-Beethoven, they only had a 5-octave range anyhow, so composers faced the same limitations as players. Who knows what they would've written had they the range to do so? You can even see in some early Beethoven where he was struggling to fit certain motifs within the range of the smaller pianos that existed at the time.

    – Darrel Hoffman
    2 days ago






  • 2





    @DarrelHoffman - I've seen the bottom octave of the piano used often enough in classical music. In several of those cases, I've even seen those notes notated with ledger lines but no ottava lines.

    – Dekkadeci
    2 days ago
















23















Pianos normally have 88 keys, ranging from A0 to C8. One of Bösendorfer's pianos go down to F below the low A. The other model goes down to C. How did this happen?






piano history







share|improve this question




















  • 6





    Personally, I'd ask the opposite question - why did everybody else stop at 88? I mean, I very rarely see any music which uses the top or bottom octave on a standard 88, but that's no reason to not give people the option. Also, if you're looking at any music, say, before mid-Beethoven, they only had a 5-octave range anyhow, so composers faced the same limitations as players. Who knows what they would've written had they the range to do so? You can even see in some early Beethoven where he was struggling to fit certain motifs within the range of the smaller pianos that existed at the time.

    – Darrel Hoffman
    2 days ago






  • 2





    @DarrelHoffman - I've seen the bottom octave of the piano used often enough in classical music. In several of those cases, I've even seen those notes notated with ledger lines but no ottava lines.

    – Dekkadeci
    2 days ago














23












23








23


1






Pianos normally have 88 keys, ranging from A0 to C8. One of Bösendorfer's pianos go down to F below the low A. The other model goes down to C. How did this happen?






piano history







share|improve this question
















Pianos normally have 88 keys, ranging from A0 to C8. One of Bösendorfer's pianos go down to F below the low A. The other model goes down to C. How did this happen?






piano history




piano history






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago









Richard

43.4k7100186




43.4k7100186










asked Mar 19 at 23:33









Maika SakuranomiyaMaika Sakuranomiya

9091429




9091429








  • 6





    Personally, I'd ask the opposite question - why did everybody else stop at 88? I mean, I very rarely see any music which uses the top or bottom octave on a standard 88, but that's no reason to not give people the option. Also, if you're looking at any music, say, before mid-Beethoven, they only had a 5-octave range anyhow, so composers faced the same limitations as players. Who knows what they would've written had they the range to do so? You can even see in some early Beethoven where he was struggling to fit certain motifs within the range of the smaller pianos that existed at the time.

    – Darrel Hoffman
    2 days ago






  • 2





    @DarrelHoffman - I've seen the bottom octave of the piano used often enough in classical music. In several of those cases, I've even seen those notes notated with ledger lines but no ottava lines.

    – Dekkadeci
    2 days ago














  • 6





    Personally, I'd ask the opposite question - why did everybody else stop at 88? I mean, I very rarely see any music which uses the top or bottom octave on a standard 88, but that's no reason to not give people the option. Also, if you're looking at any music, say, before mid-Beethoven, they only had a 5-octave range anyhow, so composers faced the same limitations as players. Who knows what they would've written had they the range to do so? You can even see in some early Beethoven where he was struggling to fit certain motifs within the range of the smaller pianos that existed at the time.

    – Darrel Hoffman
    2 days ago






  • 2





    @DarrelHoffman - I've seen the bottom octave of the piano used often enough in classical music. In several of those cases, I've even seen those notes notated with ledger lines but no ottava lines.

    – Dekkadeci
    2 days ago








6




6





Personally, I'd ask the opposite question - why did everybody else stop at 88? I mean, I very rarely see any music which uses the top or bottom octave on a standard 88, but that's no reason to not give people the option. Also, if you're looking at any music, say, before mid-Beethoven, they only had a 5-octave range anyhow, so composers faced the same limitations as players. Who knows what they would've written had they the range to do so? You can even see in some early Beethoven where he was struggling to fit certain motifs within the range of the smaller pianos that existed at the time.

– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago





Personally, I'd ask the opposite question - why did everybody else stop at 88? I mean, I very rarely see any music which uses the top or bottom octave on a standard 88, but that's no reason to not give people the option. Also, if you're looking at any music, say, before mid-Beethoven, they only had a 5-octave range anyhow, so composers faced the same limitations as players. Who knows what they would've written had they the range to do so? You can even see in some early Beethoven where he was struggling to fit certain motifs within the range of the smaller pianos that existed at the time.

– Darrel Hoffman
2 days ago




2




2





@DarrelHoffman - I've seen the bottom octave of the piano used often enough in classical music. In several of those cases, I've even seen those notes notated with ledger lines but no ottava lines.

– Dekkadeci
2 days ago





@DarrelHoffman - I've seen the bottom octave of the piano used often enough in classical music. In several of those cases, I've even seen those notes notated with ledger lines but no ottava lines.

– Dekkadeci
2 days ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















31














These extended Bösendorfer ranges go back to Busoni's day. He wanted to match the range of pipe organs, as he was making transcriptions of J. S. Bach's organ works at the time.






share|improve this answer





















  • 5





    @CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.

    – Mohair
    2 days ago






  • 1





    And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...

    – Hobbes
    2 days ago



















34














replete's answer is correct that the original reason was to have a bigger range, as needed for some organ music. However, I don't think that's the reason those Imperial models are so sought-for over all these years – actually playing the lowest notest is scarcely musically useful.



The reason why people want Bösendorfer Imperial is that they sound awesome, even when the low strings aren't played. This probably has two main reasons:




  • The big sound frame is better at transmitting all frequencies, in particular those on the low end of the regular range. These strings aren't already at the very limit of what the resonator can do, like they are on many other pianos, but still in the range of what it can comfortably do, so thundering octaves actually thunder and don't just “clank”.

  • The low strings give a denser sympathetic-resonance spectrum, when the pedal is pushed. As a result, a Bösendorfer has a richer sound even in high, soft, legato passages.






share|improve this answer



















  • 12





    Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)

    – Carl Witthoft
    2 days ago



















8














Yep. There's of course another reason than cannot be underestimated: bling.






share|improve this answer



















  • 5





    Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.

    – Scott Wallace
    2 days ago











  • I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?

    – David K
    20 hours ago











  • @DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?

    – Scott Wallace
    14 hours ago











  • I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.

    – David K
    11 hours ago











  • Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.

    – Scott Wallace
    8 hours ago











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3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









31














These extended Bösendorfer ranges go back to Busoni's day. He wanted to match the range of pipe organs, as he was making transcriptions of J. S. Bach's organ works at the time.






share|improve this answer





















  • 5





    @CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.

    – Mohair
    2 days ago






  • 1





    And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...

    – Hobbes
    2 days ago
















31














These extended Bösendorfer ranges go back to Busoni's day. He wanted to match the range of pipe organs, as he was making transcriptions of J. S. Bach's organ works at the time.






share|improve this answer





















  • 5





    @CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.

    – Mohair
    2 days ago






  • 1





    And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...

    – Hobbes
    2 days ago














31












31








31







These extended Bösendorfer ranges go back to Busoni's day. He wanted to match the range of pipe organs, as he was making transcriptions of J. S. Bach's organ works at the time.






share|improve this answer















These extended Bösendorfer ranges go back to Busoni's day. He wanted to match the range of pipe organs, as he was making transcriptions of J. S. Bach's organ works at the time.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 2 days ago









Russell Borogove

1336




1336










answered Mar 19 at 23:38









repletereplete

3,258722




3,258722








  • 5





    @CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.

    – Mohair
    2 days ago






  • 1





    And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...

    – Hobbes
    2 days ago














  • 5





    @CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.

    – Mohair
    2 days ago






  • 1





    And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...

    – Hobbes
    2 days ago








5




5





@CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.

– Mohair
2 days ago





@CarlWitthoft It only makes sense that they continue to make them because people buy them.

– Mohair
2 days ago




1




1





And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...

– Hobbes
2 days ago





And then somebody built an organ with a 64' stop...

– Hobbes
2 days ago











34














replete's answer is correct that the original reason was to have a bigger range, as needed for some organ music. However, I don't think that's the reason those Imperial models are so sought-for over all these years – actually playing the lowest notest is scarcely musically useful.



The reason why people want Bösendorfer Imperial is that they sound awesome, even when the low strings aren't played. This probably has two main reasons:




  • The big sound frame is better at transmitting all frequencies, in particular those on the low end of the regular range. These strings aren't already at the very limit of what the resonator can do, like they are on many other pianos, but still in the range of what it can comfortably do, so thundering octaves actually thunder and don't just “clank”.

  • The low strings give a denser sympathetic-resonance spectrum, when the pedal is pushed. As a result, a Bösendorfer has a richer sound even in high, soft, legato passages.






share|improve this answer



















  • 12





    Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)

    – Carl Witthoft
    2 days ago
















34














replete's answer is correct that the original reason was to have a bigger range, as needed for some organ music. However, I don't think that's the reason those Imperial models are so sought-for over all these years – actually playing the lowest notest is scarcely musically useful.



The reason why people want Bösendorfer Imperial is that they sound awesome, even when the low strings aren't played. This probably has two main reasons:




  • The big sound frame is better at transmitting all frequencies, in particular those on the low end of the regular range. These strings aren't already at the very limit of what the resonator can do, like they are on many other pianos, but still in the range of what it can comfortably do, so thundering octaves actually thunder and don't just “clank”.

  • The low strings give a denser sympathetic-resonance spectrum, when the pedal is pushed. As a result, a Bösendorfer has a richer sound even in high, soft, legato passages.






share|improve this answer



















  • 12





    Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)

    – Carl Witthoft
    2 days ago














34












34








34







replete's answer is correct that the original reason was to have a bigger range, as needed for some organ music. However, I don't think that's the reason those Imperial models are so sought-for over all these years – actually playing the lowest notest is scarcely musically useful.



The reason why people want Bösendorfer Imperial is that they sound awesome, even when the low strings aren't played. This probably has two main reasons:




  • The big sound frame is better at transmitting all frequencies, in particular those on the low end of the regular range. These strings aren't already at the very limit of what the resonator can do, like they are on many other pianos, but still in the range of what it can comfortably do, so thundering octaves actually thunder and don't just “clank”.

  • The low strings give a denser sympathetic-resonance spectrum, when the pedal is pushed. As a result, a Bösendorfer has a richer sound even in high, soft, legato passages.






share|improve this answer













replete's answer is correct that the original reason was to have a bigger range, as needed for some organ music. However, I don't think that's the reason those Imperial models are so sought-for over all these years – actually playing the lowest notest is scarcely musically useful.



The reason why people want Bösendorfer Imperial is that they sound awesome, even when the low strings aren't played. This probably has two main reasons:




  • The big sound frame is better at transmitting all frequencies, in particular those on the low end of the regular range. These strings aren't already at the very limit of what the resonator can do, like they are on many other pianos, but still in the range of what it can comfortably do, so thundering octaves actually thunder and don't just “clank”.

  • The low strings give a denser sympathetic-resonance spectrum, when the pedal is pushed. As a result, a Bösendorfer has a richer sound even in high, soft, legato passages.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









leftaroundaboutleftaroundabout

20.4k3690




20.4k3690








  • 12





    Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)

    – Carl Witthoft
    2 days ago














  • 12





    Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)

    – Carl Witthoft
    2 days ago








12




12





Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)

– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago





Plus to a pianist, a Bosendorfer is like a 2-ton pickup to a Texan :-)

– Carl Witthoft
2 days ago











8














Yep. There's of course another reason than cannot be underestimated: bling.






share|improve this answer



















  • 5





    Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.

    – Scott Wallace
    2 days ago











  • I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?

    – David K
    20 hours ago











  • @DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?

    – Scott Wallace
    14 hours ago











  • I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.

    – David K
    11 hours ago











  • Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.

    – Scott Wallace
    8 hours ago
















8














Yep. There's of course another reason than cannot be underestimated: bling.






share|improve this answer



















  • 5





    Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.

    – Scott Wallace
    2 days ago











  • I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?

    – David K
    20 hours ago











  • @DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?

    – Scott Wallace
    14 hours ago











  • I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.

    – David K
    11 hours ago











  • Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.

    – Scott Wallace
    8 hours ago














8












8








8







Yep. There's of course another reason than cannot be underestimated: bling.






share|improve this answer













Yep. There's of course another reason than cannot be underestimated: bling.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









Scott WallaceScott Wallace

4,4711017




4,4711017








  • 5





    Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.

    – Scott Wallace
    2 days ago











  • I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?

    – David K
    20 hours ago











  • @DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?

    – Scott Wallace
    14 hours ago











  • I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.

    – David K
    11 hours ago











  • Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.

    – Scott Wallace
    8 hours ago














  • 5





    Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.

    – Scott Wallace
    2 days ago











  • I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?

    – David K
    20 hours ago











  • @DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?

    – Scott Wallace
    14 hours ago











  • I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.

    – David K
    11 hours ago











  • Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.

    – Scott Wallace
    8 hours ago








5




5





Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.

– Scott Wallace
2 days ago





Hey, I live in Bösendorfer's home town. You can't tell me that they don't sell their image.

– Scott Wallace
2 days ago













I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?

– David K
20 hours ago





I don't doubt that they promote their own image, but on the other hand, have you ever tried playing one?

– David K
20 hours ago













@DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?

– Scott Wallace
14 hours ago





@DavidK - can't say I have. I'm sure they sound great. But honestly- how often do we need these notes?

– Scott Wallace
14 hours ago













I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.

– David K
11 hours ago





I believe the one I tried had just the usual 88 notes. But they all sounded great from one end of the keyboard to the other. That makes an astoundingly good-sounding piano. Also an astoundingly high price.

– David K
11 hours ago













Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.

– Scott Wallace
8 hours ago





Oh, I thought you meant one with extended bass. I've played the normal 88 keyed ones. Yes, they are very nice modern pianos, and beautifully made too.

– Scott Wallace
8 hours ago


















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