Why would a jet engine that runs at temps excess of 2000°C burn when it crashes?












13












$begingroup$


Airline engines are designed to work at very high temperatures. Yet, when a plane crashes they're burnt (see below). Is it something in their design?



enter image description here

(bostonherald.com)










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 8




    $begingroup$
    The engine in the photograph is not melted.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    21 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @MichaelHall: That's on me, I've fixed it. OP originally wrote burnt. Although judging by the LP section, it did melt.
    $endgroup$
    – ymb1
    20 hours ago






  • 11




    $begingroup$
    I have to challenge the premise. From the picture, it looks like the external housing of the engine burned and/or melted. The internal parts look like they've just suffered impact damage. The external housing does not experience high temperatures. Same reason the combustion temperature of your car's engine may reach 2000 C or so, yet the plastic components sitting nearby don't melt.
    $endgroup$
    – jamesqf
    16 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    related: aviation.stackexchange.com/a/16842/1467
    $endgroup$
    – Federico
    11 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I think that the only thing we can say about the external housing is that it is missing from the picture. Besides melting or burning away it could have broken up on impact and pieces shed away as the core slid along the ground. Tough to surmise what happened from a single still photo.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    3 hours ago
















13












$begingroup$


Airline engines are designed to work at very high temperatures. Yet, when a plane crashes they're burnt (see below). Is it something in their design?



enter image description here

(bostonherald.com)










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 8




    $begingroup$
    The engine in the photograph is not melted.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    21 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @MichaelHall: That's on me, I've fixed it. OP originally wrote burnt. Although judging by the LP section, it did melt.
    $endgroup$
    – ymb1
    20 hours ago






  • 11




    $begingroup$
    I have to challenge the premise. From the picture, it looks like the external housing of the engine burned and/or melted. The internal parts look like they've just suffered impact damage. The external housing does not experience high temperatures. Same reason the combustion temperature of your car's engine may reach 2000 C or so, yet the plastic components sitting nearby don't melt.
    $endgroup$
    – jamesqf
    16 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    related: aviation.stackexchange.com/a/16842/1467
    $endgroup$
    – Federico
    11 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I think that the only thing we can say about the external housing is that it is missing from the picture. Besides melting or burning away it could have broken up on impact and pieces shed away as the core slid along the ground. Tough to surmise what happened from a single still photo.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    3 hours ago














13












13








13


1



$begingroup$


Airline engines are designed to work at very high temperatures. Yet, when a plane crashes they're burnt (see below). Is it something in their design?



enter image description here

(bostonherald.com)










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Airline engines are designed to work at very high temperatures. Yet, when a plane crashes they're burnt (see below). Is it something in their design?



enter image description here

(bostonherald.com)







jet-engine accidents aerospace-materials






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 20 hours ago









ymb1

67k7212356




67k7212356










asked 21 hours ago









RegmiRegmi

21328




21328








  • 8




    $begingroup$
    The engine in the photograph is not melted.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    21 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @MichaelHall: That's on me, I've fixed it. OP originally wrote burnt. Although judging by the LP section, it did melt.
    $endgroup$
    – ymb1
    20 hours ago






  • 11




    $begingroup$
    I have to challenge the premise. From the picture, it looks like the external housing of the engine burned and/or melted. The internal parts look like they've just suffered impact damage. The external housing does not experience high temperatures. Same reason the combustion temperature of your car's engine may reach 2000 C or so, yet the plastic components sitting nearby don't melt.
    $endgroup$
    – jamesqf
    16 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    related: aviation.stackexchange.com/a/16842/1467
    $endgroup$
    – Federico
    11 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I think that the only thing we can say about the external housing is that it is missing from the picture. Besides melting or burning away it could have broken up on impact and pieces shed away as the core slid along the ground. Tough to surmise what happened from a single still photo.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    3 hours ago














  • 8




    $begingroup$
    The engine in the photograph is not melted.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    21 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @MichaelHall: That's on me, I've fixed it. OP originally wrote burnt. Although judging by the LP section, it did melt.
    $endgroup$
    – ymb1
    20 hours ago






  • 11




    $begingroup$
    I have to challenge the premise. From the picture, it looks like the external housing of the engine burned and/or melted. The internal parts look like they've just suffered impact damage. The external housing does not experience high temperatures. Same reason the combustion temperature of your car's engine may reach 2000 C or so, yet the plastic components sitting nearby don't melt.
    $endgroup$
    – jamesqf
    16 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    related: aviation.stackexchange.com/a/16842/1467
    $endgroup$
    – Federico
    11 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I think that the only thing we can say about the external housing is that it is missing from the picture. Besides melting or burning away it could have broken up on impact and pieces shed away as the core slid along the ground. Tough to surmise what happened from a single still photo.
    $endgroup$
    – Michael Hall
    3 hours ago








8




8




$begingroup$
The engine in the photograph is not melted.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hall
21 hours ago




$begingroup$
The engine in the photograph is not melted.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hall
21 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
@MichaelHall: That's on me, I've fixed it. OP originally wrote burnt. Although judging by the LP section, it did melt.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
20 hours ago




$begingroup$
@MichaelHall: That's on me, I've fixed it. OP originally wrote burnt. Although judging by the LP section, it did melt.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
20 hours ago




11




11




$begingroup$
I have to challenge the premise. From the picture, it looks like the external housing of the engine burned and/or melted. The internal parts look like they've just suffered impact damage. The external housing does not experience high temperatures. Same reason the combustion temperature of your car's engine may reach 2000 C or so, yet the plastic components sitting nearby don't melt.
$endgroup$
– jamesqf
16 hours ago




$begingroup$
I have to challenge the premise. From the picture, it looks like the external housing of the engine burned and/or melted. The internal parts look like they've just suffered impact damage. The external housing does not experience high temperatures. Same reason the combustion temperature of your car's engine may reach 2000 C or so, yet the plastic components sitting nearby don't melt.
$endgroup$
– jamesqf
16 hours ago












$begingroup$
related: aviation.stackexchange.com/a/16842/1467
$endgroup$
– Federico
11 hours ago




$begingroup$
related: aviation.stackexchange.com/a/16842/1467
$endgroup$
– Federico
11 hours ago












$begingroup$
I think that the only thing we can say about the external housing is that it is missing from the picture. Besides melting or burning away it could have broken up on impact and pieces shed away as the core slid along the ground. Tough to surmise what happened from a single still photo.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hall
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
I think that the only thing we can say about the external housing is that it is missing from the picture. Besides melting or burning away it could have broken up on impact and pieces shed away as the core slid along the ground. Tough to surmise what happened from a single still photo.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hall
3 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















33












$begingroup$

How The Jet Engine Works:




Inside the typical commercial jet engine, the fuel burns in the combustion chamber at up to 2000 degrees Celsius. The temperature at which metals in this part of the engine start to melt is 1300 degrees Celsius, so advanced cooling techniques must be used.




You can read more about some of those cooling mechanisms in How are temperature differences handled in a jet engine?



See also, How do you stop a jet engine melting?:




Neil - The normal melting point of the nickel blade alloys that we use in the turbine is typically about 12-1400 degrees. But what you do, and this is the clever bit, is you actually cool these blades. You have internal cooling passages, which effectively has air that flows through and it's about 7-800 degrees. And this cooling air then exits from small little minute holes that have been drilled on the surface of the blade and this air then forms a kind of a film on the surface of the blade, and this technology is typically called a 'film cooling.'



What you also do - you coat these blades and typically use something called a thermal barrier coating. The thermal barrier coating, effectively, is ceramic, typically about quarter of a millimeter in thickness, but they have got very, very low thermal conductivity. So, effectively, even though the gas stream is at a much higher air temperature, the effective metal that exists beneath the thermal barrier coating is much colder, and you get thermal grade of the order of about 100 degrees C between the hot and the cold surface. So all of this put together - this whole cooling technology effectively helps to keep the blade below its melting temperature.




The engine is designed to manage the intense heat in a controlled way, by restricting it to certain components, injecting cool air around the hot parts, and choosing different materials for different parts of the engine. If the engine is severely damaged, doused in jet fuel, and set on fire, none of those mechanisms function; the entire engine (or whatever is left of it), as opposed to just the portions intended to manage heat, will be hot, and none of the cooling mechanisms will be working.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Those blades are little marvels of engineering. Something you can hold in one hand but costs some ~5000 dollars (and there's a whole lot of them in one turbine)
    $endgroup$
    – mbrig
    17 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Just out of interest, @mbrig , is it actually ok to hold in your hand (and then safely use)? I know its robustness would point one way but the way it's been micro-optimised for a different environment might indicate the opposite. I know, for exmaple, quartz envelope bulbs rather dislike skin oil: I don't mean this in particular, but this kind of thing.
    $endgroup$
    – Dannie
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Dannie I wouldn't know unfortunately, the one I got to hold was from an areo-derivative generator that had been rebuilt, and wouldn't be going back into use either way.
    $endgroup$
    – mbrig
    1 hour ago



















13












$begingroup$

Peter's answer to another question has a nice chart that shows internal jet engine temperatures:



Enter image description here



You can see that the temperatures are highest by a fairly large factor in the combustion chamber. This means that only the combustion chamber needs to be able to withstand those temperatures. To save weight and often use less expensive and less exotic materials, the rest of the engine may be made out of materials that don't need to withstand such high temperatures. As such, in an accident where jet fuel may be dispersed in an uncontrolled way and burn with as much oxygen as it can get, it's easy to scorch engine parts and anything else around.



It also is in part a question of time. The ability to withstand heat varies with time. In a crash of a fairly fueled aircraft that may burn uncontrolled for a long time you are likely to find scorched parts like this. Whereas a plane that runs its tanks try and crashes in a field may not see the same fire marks. However, if the plane hits the ground with enough force the heat generated from the impact can also lead to markings like this.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    0












    $begingroup$

    First off, the engine is running around 2000° F (NOT 2000° C/3632° F) only in a few places within it. The Turbine Inlet Temperature (TIT) can be that high but cools rapidly when the exhaust gases are rapidly expanded through the high and low pressure turbines to exit at approx 1000° F at the jet pipe (enthalpy is converted into mechanical work here). Most sections of the engine are not designed for that high of a temperature and may well oxidize or deform in the post crash fire.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$









    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Note: 2000° F is 1093° C
      $endgroup$
      – Ring Ø
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      .....what is your point?
      $endgroup$
      – Carlo Felicione
      3 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @CarloFelicione probably to inform people like me what the celsius equivalent to 2000° F is (seeing as celsius is something you provide for the other value, and most of the world understands over fahrenheit)
      $endgroup$
      – CalvT
      3 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      This disagrees with the temperatures quoted in other answers.
      $endgroup$
      – Carl Witthoft
      1 hour ago










    • $begingroup$
      No it does not. Tf = 9/5 * Tc + 32
      $endgroup$
      – Carlo Felicione
      1 hour ago











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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    33












    $begingroup$

    How The Jet Engine Works:




    Inside the typical commercial jet engine, the fuel burns in the combustion chamber at up to 2000 degrees Celsius. The temperature at which metals in this part of the engine start to melt is 1300 degrees Celsius, so advanced cooling techniques must be used.




    You can read more about some of those cooling mechanisms in How are temperature differences handled in a jet engine?



    See also, How do you stop a jet engine melting?:




    Neil - The normal melting point of the nickel blade alloys that we use in the turbine is typically about 12-1400 degrees. But what you do, and this is the clever bit, is you actually cool these blades. You have internal cooling passages, which effectively has air that flows through and it's about 7-800 degrees. And this cooling air then exits from small little minute holes that have been drilled on the surface of the blade and this air then forms a kind of a film on the surface of the blade, and this technology is typically called a 'film cooling.'



    What you also do - you coat these blades and typically use something called a thermal barrier coating. The thermal barrier coating, effectively, is ceramic, typically about quarter of a millimeter in thickness, but they have got very, very low thermal conductivity. So, effectively, even though the gas stream is at a much higher air temperature, the effective metal that exists beneath the thermal barrier coating is much colder, and you get thermal grade of the order of about 100 degrees C between the hot and the cold surface. So all of this put together - this whole cooling technology effectively helps to keep the blade below its melting temperature.




    The engine is designed to manage the intense heat in a controlled way, by restricting it to certain components, injecting cool air around the hot parts, and choosing different materials for different parts of the engine. If the engine is severely damaged, doused in jet fuel, and set on fire, none of those mechanisms function; the entire engine (or whatever is left of it), as opposed to just the portions intended to manage heat, will be hot, and none of the cooling mechanisms will be working.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Those blades are little marvels of engineering. Something you can hold in one hand but costs some ~5000 dollars (and there's a whole lot of them in one turbine)
      $endgroup$
      – mbrig
      17 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      Just out of interest, @mbrig , is it actually ok to hold in your hand (and then safely use)? I know its robustness would point one way but the way it's been micro-optimised for a different environment might indicate the opposite. I know, for exmaple, quartz envelope bulbs rather dislike skin oil: I don't mean this in particular, but this kind of thing.
      $endgroup$
      – Dannie
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Dannie I wouldn't know unfortunately, the one I got to hold was from an areo-derivative generator that had been rebuilt, and wouldn't be going back into use either way.
      $endgroup$
      – mbrig
      1 hour ago
















    33












    $begingroup$

    How The Jet Engine Works:




    Inside the typical commercial jet engine, the fuel burns in the combustion chamber at up to 2000 degrees Celsius. The temperature at which metals in this part of the engine start to melt is 1300 degrees Celsius, so advanced cooling techniques must be used.




    You can read more about some of those cooling mechanisms in How are temperature differences handled in a jet engine?



    See also, How do you stop a jet engine melting?:




    Neil - The normal melting point of the nickel blade alloys that we use in the turbine is typically about 12-1400 degrees. But what you do, and this is the clever bit, is you actually cool these blades. You have internal cooling passages, which effectively has air that flows through and it's about 7-800 degrees. And this cooling air then exits from small little minute holes that have been drilled on the surface of the blade and this air then forms a kind of a film on the surface of the blade, and this technology is typically called a 'film cooling.'



    What you also do - you coat these blades and typically use something called a thermal barrier coating. The thermal barrier coating, effectively, is ceramic, typically about quarter of a millimeter in thickness, but they have got very, very low thermal conductivity. So, effectively, even though the gas stream is at a much higher air temperature, the effective metal that exists beneath the thermal barrier coating is much colder, and you get thermal grade of the order of about 100 degrees C between the hot and the cold surface. So all of this put together - this whole cooling technology effectively helps to keep the blade below its melting temperature.




    The engine is designed to manage the intense heat in a controlled way, by restricting it to certain components, injecting cool air around the hot parts, and choosing different materials for different parts of the engine. If the engine is severely damaged, doused in jet fuel, and set on fire, none of those mechanisms function; the entire engine (or whatever is left of it), as opposed to just the portions intended to manage heat, will be hot, and none of the cooling mechanisms will be working.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Those blades are little marvels of engineering. Something you can hold in one hand but costs some ~5000 dollars (and there's a whole lot of them in one turbine)
      $endgroup$
      – mbrig
      17 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      Just out of interest, @mbrig , is it actually ok to hold in your hand (and then safely use)? I know its robustness would point one way but the way it's been micro-optimised for a different environment might indicate the opposite. I know, for exmaple, quartz envelope bulbs rather dislike skin oil: I don't mean this in particular, but this kind of thing.
      $endgroup$
      – Dannie
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Dannie I wouldn't know unfortunately, the one I got to hold was from an areo-derivative generator that had been rebuilt, and wouldn't be going back into use either way.
      $endgroup$
      – mbrig
      1 hour ago














    33












    33








    33





    $begingroup$

    How The Jet Engine Works:




    Inside the typical commercial jet engine, the fuel burns in the combustion chamber at up to 2000 degrees Celsius. The temperature at which metals in this part of the engine start to melt is 1300 degrees Celsius, so advanced cooling techniques must be used.




    You can read more about some of those cooling mechanisms in How are temperature differences handled in a jet engine?



    See also, How do you stop a jet engine melting?:




    Neil - The normal melting point of the nickel blade alloys that we use in the turbine is typically about 12-1400 degrees. But what you do, and this is the clever bit, is you actually cool these blades. You have internal cooling passages, which effectively has air that flows through and it's about 7-800 degrees. And this cooling air then exits from small little minute holes that have been drilled on the surface of the blade and this air then forms a kind of a film on the surface of the blade, and this technology is typically called a 'film cooling.'



    What you also do - you coat these blades and typically use something called a thermal barrier coating. The thermal barrier coating, effectively, is ceramic, typically about quarter of a millimeter in thickness, but they have got very, very low thermal conductivity. So, effectively, even though the gas stream is at a much higher air temperature, the effective metal that exists beneath the thermal barrier coating is much colder, and you get thermal grade of the order of about 100 degrees C between the hot and the cold surface. So all of this put together - this whole cooling technology effectively helps to keep the blade below its melting temperature.




    The engine is designed to manage the intense heat in a controlled way, by restricting it to certain components, injecting cool air around the hot parts, and choosing different materials for different parts of the engine. If the engine is severely damaged, doused in jet fuel, and set on fire, none of those mechanisms function; the entire engine (or whatever is left of it), as opposed to just the portions intended to manage heat, will be hot, and none of the cooling mechanisms will be working.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    How The Jet Engine Works:




    Inside the typical commercial jet engine, the fuel burns in the combustion chamber at up to 2000 degrees Celsius. The temperature at which metals in this part of the engine start to melt is 1300 degrees Celsius, so advanced cooling techniques must be used.




    You can read more about some of those cooling mechanisms in How are temperature differences handled in a jet engine?



    See also, How do you stop a jet engine melting?:




    Neil - The normal melting point of the nickel blade alloys that we use in the turbine is typically about 12-1400 degrees. But what you do, and this is the clever bit, is you actually cool these blades. You have internal cooling passages, which effectively has air that flows through and it's about 7-800 degrees. And this cooling air then exits from small little minute holes that have been drilled on the surface of the blade and this air then forms a kind of a film on the surface of the blade, and this technology is typically called a 'film cooling.'



    What you also do - you coat these blades and typically use something called a thermal barrier coating. The thermal barrier coating, effectively, is ceramic, typically about quarter of a millimeter in thickness, but they have got very, very low thermal conductivity. So, effectively, even though the gas stream is at a much higher air temperature, the effective metal that exists beneath the thermal barrier coating is much colder, and you get thermal grade of the order of about 100 degrees C between the hot and the cold surface. So all of this put together - this whole cooling technology effectively helps to keep the blade below its melting temperature.




    The engine is designed to manage the intense heat in a controlled way, by restricting it to certain components, injecting cool air around the hot parts, and choosing different materials for different parts of the engine. If the engine is severely damaged, doused in jet fuel, and set on fire, none of those mechanisms function; the entire engine (or whatever is left of it), as opposed to just the portions intended to manage heat, will be hot, and none of the cooling mechanisms will be working.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 21 hours ago

























    answered 21 hours ago









    Zach LiptonZach Lipton

    6,32912542




    6,32912542












    • $begingroup$
      Those blades are little marvels of engineering. Something you can hold in one hand but costs some ~5000 dollars (and there's a whole lot of them in one turbine)
      $endgroup$
      – mbrig
      17 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      Just out of interest, @mbrig , is it actually ok to hold in your hand (and then safely use)? I know its robustness would point one way but the way it's been micro-optimised for a different environment might indicate the opposite. I know, for exmaple, quartz envelope bulbs rather dislike skin oil: I don't mean this in particular, but this kind of thing.
      $endgroup$
      – Dannie
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Dannie I wouldn't know unfortunately, the one I got to hold was from an areo-derivative generator that had been rebuilt, and wouldn't be going back into use either way.
      $endgroup$
      – mbrig
      1 hour ago


















    • $begingroup$
      Those blades are little marvels of engineering. Something you can hold in one hand but costs some ~5000 dollars (and there's a whole lot of them in one turbine)
      $endgroup$
      – mbrig
      17 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      Just out of interest, @mbrig , is it actually ok to hold in your hand (and then safely use)? I know its robustness would point one way but the way it's been micro-optimised for a different environment might indicate the opposite. I know, for exmaple, quartz envelope bulbs rather dislike skin oil: I don't mean this in particular, but this kind of thing.
      $endgroup$
      – Dannie
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Dannie I wouldn't know unfortunately, the one I got to hold was from an areo-derivative generator that had been rebuilt, and wouldn't be going back into use either way.
      $endgroup$
      – mbrig
      1 hour ago
















    $begingroup$
    Those blades are little marvels of engineering. Something you can hold in one hand but costs some ~5000 dollars (and there's a whole lot of them in one turbine)
    $endgroup$
    – mbrig
    17 hours ago






    $begingroup$
    Those blades are little marvels of engineering. Something you can hold in one hand but costs some ~5000 dollars (and there's a whole lot of them in one turbine)
    $endgroup$
    – mbrig
    17 hours ago














    $begingroup$
    Just out of interest, @mbrig , is it actually ok to hold in your hand (and then safely use)? I know its robustness would point one way but the way it's been micro-optimised for a different environment might indicate the opposite. I know, for exmaple, quartz envelope bulbs rather dislike skin oil: I don't mean this in particular, but this kind of thing.
    $endgroup$
    – Dannie
    2 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Just out of interest, @mbrig , is it actually ok to hold in your hand (and then safely use)? I know its robustness would point one way but the way it's been micro-optimised for a different environment might indicate the opposite. I know, for exmaple, quartz envelope bulbs rather dislike skin oil: I don't mean this in particular, but this kind of thing.
    $endgroup$
    – Dannie
    2 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @Dannie I wouldn't know unfortunately, the one I got to hold was from an areo-derivative generator that had been rebuilt, and wouldn't be going back into use either way.
    $endgroup$
    – mbrig
    1 hour ago




    $begingroup$
    @Dannie I wouldn't know unfortunately, the one I got to hold was from an areo-derivative generator that had been rebuilt, and wouldn't be going back into use either way.
    $endgroup$
    – mbrig
    1 hour ago











    13












    $begingroup$

    Peter's answer to another question has a nice chart that shows internal jet engine temperatures:



    Enter image description here



    You can see that the temperatures are highest by a fairly large factor in the combustion chamber. This means that only the combustion chamber needs to be able to withstand those temperatures. To save weight and often use less expensive and less exotic materials, the rest of the engine may be made out of materials that don't need to withstand such high temperatures. As such, in an accident where jet fuel may be dispersed in an uncontrolled way and burn with as much oxygen as it can get, it's easy to scorch engine parts and anything else around.



    It also is in part a question of time. The ability to withstand heat varies with time. In a crash of a fairly fueled aircraft that may burn uncontrolled for a long time you are likely to find scorched parts like this. Whereas a plane that runs its tanks try and crashes in a field may not see the same fire marks. However, if the plane hits the ground with enough force the heat generated from the impact can also lead to markings like this.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      13












      $begingroup$

      Peter's answer to another question has a nice chart that shows internal jet engine temperatures:



      Enter image description here



      You can see that the temperatures are highest by a fairly large factor in the combustion chamber. This means that only the combustion chamber needs to be able to withstand those temperatures. To save weight and often use less expensive and less exotic materials, the rest of the engine may be made out of materials that don't need to withstand such high temperatures. As such, in an accident where jet fuel may be dispersed in an uncontrolled way and burn with as much oxygen as it can get, it's easy to scorch engine parts and anything else around.



      It also is in part a question of time. The ability to withstand heat varies with time. In a crash of a fairly fueled aircraft that may burn uncontrolled for a long time you are likely to find scorched parts like this. Whereas a plane that runs its tanks try and crashes in a field may not see the same fire marks. However, if the plane hits the ground with enough force the heat generated from the impact can also lead to markings like this.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        13












        13








        13





        $begingroup$

        Peter's answer to another question has a nice chart that shows internal jet engine temperatures:



        Enter image description here



        You can see that the temperatures are highest by a fairly large factor in the combustion chamber. This means that only the combustion chamber needs to be able to withstand those temperatures. To save weight and often use less expensive and less exotic materials, the rest of the engine may be made out of materials that don't need to withstand such high temperatures. As such, in an accident where jet fuel may be dispersed in an uncontrolled way and burn with as much oxygen as it can get, it's easy to scorch engine parts and anything else around.



        It also is in part a question of time. The ability to withstand heat varies with time. In a crash of a fairly fueled aircraft that may burn uncontrolled for a long time you are likely to find scorched parts like this. Whereas a plane that runs its tanks try and crashes in a field may not see the same fire marks. However, if the plane hits the ground with enough force the heat generated from the impact can also lead to markings like this.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        Peter's answer to another question has a nice chart that shows internal jet engine temperatures:



        Enter image description here



        You can see that the temperatures are highest by a fairly large factor in the combustion chamber. This means that only the combustion chamber needs to be able to withstand those temperatures. To save weight and often use less expensive and less exotic materials, the rest of the engine may be made out of materials that don't need to withstand such high temperatures. As such, in an accident where jet fuel may be dispersed in an uncontrolled way and burn with as much oxygen as it can get, it's easy to scorch engine parts and anything else around.



        It also is in part a question of time. The ability to withstand heat varies with time. In a crash of a fairly fueled aircraft that may burn uncontrolled for a long time you are likely to find scorched parts like this. Whereas a plane that runs its tanks try and crashes in a field may not see the same fire marks. However, if the plane hits the ground with enough force the heat generated from the impact can also lead to markings like this.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 9 hours ago









        Peter Mortensen

        30727




        30727










        answered 21 hours ago









        DaveDave

        67k4126242




        67k4126242























            0












            $begingroup$

            First off, the engine is running around 2000° F (NOT 2000° C/3632° F) only in a few places within it. The Turbine Inlet Temperature (TIT) can be that high but cools rapidly when the exhaust gases are rapidly expanded through the high and low pressure turbines to exit at approx 1000° F at the jet pipe (enthalpy is converted into mechanical work here). Most sections of the engine are not designed for that high of a temperature and may well oxidize or deform in the post crash fire.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$









            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Note: 2000° F is 1093° C
              $endgroup$
              – Ring Ø
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              .....what is your point?
              $endgroup$
              – Carlo Felicione
              3 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @CarloFelicione probably to inform people like me what the celsius equivalent to 2000° F is (seeing as celsius is something you provide for the other value, and most of the world understands over fahrenheit)
              $endgroup$
              – CalvT
              3 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              This disagrees with the temperatures quoted in other answers.
              $endgroup$
              – Carl Witthoft
              1 hour ago










            • $begingroup$
              No it does not. Tf = 9/5 * Tc + 32
              $endgroup$
              – Carlo Felicione
              1 hour ago
















            0












            $begingroup$

            First off, the engine is running around 2000° F (NOT 2000° C/3632° F) only in a few places within it. The Turbine Inlet Temperature (TIT) can be that high but cools rapidly when the exhaust gases are rapidly expanded through the high and low pressure turbines to exit at approx 1000° F at the jet pipe (enthalpy is converted into mechanical work here). Most sections of the engine are not designed for that high of a temperature and may well oxidize or deform in the post crash fire.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$









            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Note: 2000° F is 1093° C
              $endgroup$
              – Ring Ø
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              .....what is your point?
              $endgroup$
              – Carlo Felicione
              3 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @CarloFelicione probably to inform people like me what the celsius equivalent to 2000° F is (seeing as celsius is something you provide for the other value, and most of the world understands over fahrenheit)
              $endgroup$
              – CalvT
              3 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              This disagrees with the temperatures quoted in other answers.
              $endgroup$
              – Carl Witthoft
              1 hour ago










            • $begingroup$
              No it does not. Tf = 9/5 * Tc + 32
              $endgroup$
              – Carlo Felicione
              1 hour ago














            0












            0








            0





            $begingroup$

            First off, the engine is running around 2000° F (NOT 2000° C/3632° F) only in a few places within it. The Turbine Inlet Temperature (TIT) can be that high but cools rapidly when the exhaust gases are rapidly expanded through the high and low pressure turbines to exit at approx 1000° F at the jet pipe (enthalpy is converted into mechanical work here). Most sections of the engine are not designed for that high of a temperature and may well oxidize or deform in the post crash fire.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            First off, the engine is running around 2000° F (NOT 2000° C/3632° F) only in a few places within it. The Turbine Inlet Temperature (TIT) can be that high but cools rapidly when the exhaust gases are rapidly expanded through the high and low pressure turbines to exit at approx 1000° F at the jet pipe (enthalpy is converted into mechanical work here). Most sections of the engine are not designed for that high of a temperature and may well oxidize or deform in the post crash fire.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 1 hour ago

























            answered 8 hours ago









            Carlo FelicioneCarlo Felicione

            42.7k377154




            42.7k377154








            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Note: 2000° F is 1093° C
              $endgroup$
              – Ring Ø
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              .....what is your point?
              $endgroup$
              – Carlo Felicione
              3 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @CarloFelicione probably to inform people like me what the celsius equivalent to 2000° F is (seeing as celsius is something you provide for the other value, and most of the world understands over fahrenheit)
              $endgroup$
              – CalvT
              3 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              This disagrees with the temperatures quoted in other answers.
              $endgroup$
              – Carl Witthoft
              1 hour ago










            • $begingroup$
              No it does not. Tf = 9/5 * Tc + 32
              $endgroup$
              – Carlo Felicione
              1 hour ago














            • 1




              $begingroup$
              Note: 2000° F is 1093° C
              $endgroup$
              – Ring Ø
              6 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              .....what is your point?
              $endgroup$
              – Carlo Felicione
              3 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              @CarloFelicione probably to inform people like me what the celsius equivalent to 2000° F is (seeing as celsius is something you provide for the other value, and most of the world understands over fahrenheit)
              $endgroup$
              – CalvT
              3 hours ago










            • $begingroup$
              This disagrees with the temperatures quoted in other answers.
              $endgroup$
              – Carl Witthoft
              1 hour ago










            • $begingroup$
              No it does not. Tf = 9/5 * Tc + 32
              $endgroup$
              – Carlo Felicione
              1 hour ago








            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            Note: 2000° F is 1093° C
            $endgroup$
            – Ring Ø
            6 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            Note: 2000° F is 1093° C
            $endgroup$
            – Ring Ø
            6 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            .....what is your point?
            $endgroup$
            – Carlo Felicione
            3 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            .....what is your point?
            $endgroup$
            – Carlo Felicione
            3 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            @CarloFelicione probably to inform people like me what the celsius equivalent to 2000° F is (seeing as celsius is something you provide for the other value, and most of the world understands over fahrenheit)
            $endgroup$
            – CalvT
            3 hours ago




            $begingroup$
            @CarloFelicione probably to inform people like me what the celsius equivalent to 2000° F is (seeing as celsius is something you provide for the other value, and most of the world understands over fahrenheit)
            $endgroup$
            – CalvT
            3 hours ago












            $begingroup$
            This disagrees with the temperatures quoted in other answers.
            $endgroup$
            – Carl Witthoft
            1 hour ago




            $begingroup$
            This disagrees with the temperatures quoted in other answers.
            $endgroup$
            – Carl Witthoft
            1 hour ago












            $begingroup$
            No it does not. Tf = 9/5 * Tc + 32
            $endgroup$
            – Carlo Felicione
            1 hour ago




            $begingroup$
            No it does not. Tf = 9/5 * Tc + 32
            $endgroup$
            – Carlo Felicione
            1 hour ago


















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