Link between polynomial and derivative of polynomial











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I can't seem to solve this problem, can anyone help me please? The problem is:



Let real numbers $a$,$b$ and $c$, with $a ≤ b ≤ c$ be the 3 roots of the polynomial $p(x)=x^3 + qx^2 + rx + s$. Show that if we divide the interval $[b, c]$ into six equal parts, then one of the root of $p'(x)$ (the derivative of the polynomial $p(x)$) will be in the 4th part.



What I did was:



Because we know the roots of $p(x)$ are $a$,$b$ and $c$, we can write the polynomial $p(x)$ like this: $p(x) = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$



So we have $p(x) = x^3 + qx^2 + rx + s = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$



We find the value of $q$,$r$ and $s$:
$q = -(a+b+c)$



$r = (ab + ac + bc)$



$s = -abc$



We have that $p'(x) = 3x^2 + 2qx + r$
We want to find the roots of $p'(x)$, so if we apply the quadratic formula, we get:
$(-2q ± 2*sqrt{q^2 - 3r})/6$



Because we know the value of q,r and s, we can rewrite this expression like this:
$(2(a+b+c) ± 2sqrt{a^2 + b^2 + c^2 - ab - bc -ca})/6$



But I am stuck here, any help would be great. Thank you in advance.










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  • Sub-problem: what happens when $b=c$?
    – abiessu
    Nov 25 at 21:46















up vote
7
down vote

favorite












I can't seem to solve this problem, can anyone help me please? The problem is:



Let real numbers $a$,$b$ and $c$, with $a ≤ b ≤ c$ be the 3 roots of the polynomial $p(x)=x^3 + qx^2 + rx + s$. Show that if we divide the interval $[b, c]$ into six equal parts, then one of the root of $p'(x)$ (the derivative of the polynomial $p(x)$) will be in the 4th part.



What I did was:



Because we know the roots of $p(x)$ are $a$,$b$ and $c$, we can write the polynomial $p(x)$ like this: $p(x) = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$



So we have $p(x) = x^3 + qx^2 + rx + s = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$



We find the value of $q$,$r$ and $s$:
$q = -(a+b+c)$



$r = (ab + ac + bc)$



$s = -abc$



We have that $p'(x) = 3x^2 + 2qx + r$
We want to find the roots of $p'(x)$, so if we apply the quadratic formula, we get:
$(-2q ± 2*sqrt{q^2 - 3r})/6$



Because we know the value of q,r and s, we can rewrite this expression like this:
$(2(a+b+c) ± 2sqrt{a^2 + b^2 + c^2 - ab - bc -ca})/6$



But I am stuck here, any help would be great. Thank you in advance.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Sub-problem: what happens when $b=c$?
    – abiessu
    Nov 25 at 21:46













up vote
7
down vote

favorite









up vote
7
down vote

favorite











I can't seem to solve this problem, can anyone help me please? The problem is:



Let real numbers $a$,$b$ and $c$, with $a ≤ b ≤ c$ be the 3 roots of the polynomial $p(x)=x^3 + qx^2 + rx + s$. Show that if we divide the interval $[b, c]$ into six equal parts, then one of the root of $p'(x)$ (the derivative of the polynomial $p(x)$) will be in the 4th part.



What I did was:



Because we know the roots of $p(x)$ are $a$,$b$ and $c$, we can write the polynomial $p(x)$ like this: $p(x) = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$



So we have $p(x) = x^3 + qx^2 + rx + s = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$



We find the value of $q$,$r$ and $s$:
$q = -(a+b+c)$



$r = (ab + ac + bc)$



$s = -abc$



We have that $p'(x) = 3x^2 + 2qx + r$
We want to find the roots of $p'(x)$, so if we apply the quadratic formula, we get:
$(-2q ± 2*sqrt{q^2 - 3r})/6$



Because we know the value of q,r and s, we can rewrite this expression like this:
$(2(a+b+c) ± 2sqrt{a^2 + b^2 + c^2 - ab - bc -ca})/6$



But I am stuck here, any help would be great. Thank you in advance.










share|cite|improve this question















I can't seem to solve this problem, can anyone help me please? The problem is:



Let real numbers $a$,$b$ and $c$, with $a ≤ b ≤ c$ be the 3 roots of the polynomial $p(x)=x^3 + qx^2 + rx + s$. Show that if we divide the interval $[b, c]$ into six equal parts, then one of the root of $p'(x)$ (the derivative of the polynomial $p(x)$) will be in the 4th part.



What I did was:



Because we know the roots of $p(x)$ are $a$,$b$ and $c$, we can write the polynomial $p(x)$ like this: $p(x) = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$



So we have $p(x) = x^3 + qx^2 + rx + s = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$



We find the value of $q$,$r$ and $s$:
$q = -(a+b+c)$



$r = (ab + ac + bc)$



$s = -abc$



We have that $p'(x) = 3x^2 + 2qx + r$
We want to find the roots of $p'(x)$, so if we apply the quadratic formula, we get:
$(-2q ± 2*sqrt{q^2 - 3r})/6$



Because we know the value of q,r and s, we can rewrite this expression like this:
$(2(a+b+c) ± 2sqrt{a^2 + b^2 + c^2 - ab - bc -ca})/6$



But I am stuck here, any help would be great. Thank you in advance.







functions derivatives polynomials roots real-numbers






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edited Nov 25 at 21:43









Mason

1,8211527




1,8211527










asked Nov 25 at 21:37









AlexAdelvo

385




385












  • Sub-problem: what happens when $b=c$?
    – abiessu
    Nov 25 at 21:46


















  • Sub-problem: what happens when $b=c$?
    – abiessu
    Nov 25 at 21:46
















Sub-problem: what happens when $b=c$?
– abiessu
Nov 25 at 21:46




Sub-problem: what happens when $b=c$?
– abiessu
Nov 25 at 21:46










2 Answers
2






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5
down vote



accepted










Since $p(x) = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$,



$$begin{align}p'(x) &= (x-b)(x-c)+(x-a)(x-c)+(x-a)(x-b)\
&= (x-b)(x-c) + (x-a)(2x - (b+c))end{align}$$

At $x = frac{b+c}{2}$, we have



$$p'(x) = frac{c-b}{2}cdotfrac{b-c}{2} + (x-a)cdot 0 = -frac{(c-b)^2}{4} le 0$$



At $x = frac{b+2c}{3}$, we have



$$begin{align}p'(x) &= frac{2(c-b)}{3}cdotfrac{b-c}{3}
+ left(frac{b+2c}{3} - aright)cdotfrac{c-b}{3}\
&= -frac{2(c-b)^2}{9} + left(frac{2(c-b)}{3} + (b-a)right)cdotfrac{c-b}{3}\
&= frac{(b-a)(c-b)}{3}\&ge 0end{align}$$

This implies $p'(x)$ has a root in $left[frac{b+c}{2},frac{b+2c}{3}right]$.






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    up vote
    4
    down vote













    I have an inelegant brute force solution. Since the problem is translation invariant, we may assume $a=0$ to simplify calculations so that $0leq bleq c$. It should be clear that the root of $p'(x)$ we are interested in is the largest of the two i.e. the one with the plus sign. We need to prove that
    $$dfrac{3b+3c}{6}leqdfrac{2(b+c)+2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}}{6}leqdfrac{2b+4c}{6}$$
    On the left we obtain
    $$b+cleq 2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}$$
    where both sides are non-negative, squaring gives
    $$b^2+c^2+2bcleq 4(b^2+c^2-bc)Rightarrow 3b^2+3c^2-6bcgeq 0$$
    which holds. On the right we have
    $$2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}leq 2c$$
    so that
    $$b^2+c^2-bcleq c^2Rightarrow b(b-c)leq 0$$
    which holds since $0leq bleq c$.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















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      2 Answers
      2






      active

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      2 Answers
      2






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      up vote
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      down vote



      accepted










      Since $p(x) = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$,



      $$begin{align}p'(x) &= (x-b)(x-c)+(x-a)(x-c)+(x-a)(x-b)\
      &= (x-b)(x-c) + (x-a)(2x - (b+c))end{align}$$

      At $x = frac{b+c}{2}$, we have



      $$p'(x) = frac{c-b}{2}cdotfrac{b-c}{2} + (x-a)cdot 0 = -frac{(c-b)^2}{4} le 0$$



      At $x = frac{b+2c}{3}$, we have



      $$begin{align}p'(x) &= frac{2(c-b)}{3}cdotfrac{b-c}{3}
      + left(frac{b+2c}{3} - aright)cdotfrac{c-b}{3}\
      &= -frac{2(c-b)^2}{9} + left(frac{2(c-b)}{3} + (b-a)right)cdotfrac{c-b}{3}\
      &= frac{(b-a)(c-b)}{3}\&ge 0end{align}$$

      This implies $p'(x)$ has a root in $left[frac{b+c}{2},frac{b+2c}{3}right]$.






      share|cite|improve this answer



























        up vote
        5
        down vote



        accepted










        Since $p(x) = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$,



        $$begin{align}p'(x) &= (x-b)(x-c)+(x-a)(x-c)+(x-a)(x-b)\
        &= (x-b)(x-c) + (x-a)(2x - (b+c))end{align}$$

        At $x = frac{b+c}{2}$, we have



        $$p'(x) = frac{c-b}{2}cdotfrac{b-c}{2} + (x-a)cdot 0 = -frac{(c-b)^2}{4} le 0$$



        At $x = frac{b+2c}{3}$, we have



        $$begin{align}p'(x) &= frac{2(c-b)}{3}cdotfrac{b-c}{3}
        + left(frac{b+2c}{3} - aright)cdotfrac{c-b}{3}\
        &= -frac{2(c-b)^2}{9} + left(frac{2(c-b)}{3} + (b-a)right)cdotfrac{c-b}{3}\
        &= frac{(b-a)(c-b)}{3}\&ge 0end{align}$$

        This implies $p'(x)$ has a root in $left[frac{b+c}{2},frac{b+2c}{3}right]$.






        share|cite|improve this answer

























          up vote
          5
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          5
          down vote



          accepted






          Since $p(x) = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$,



          $$begin{align}p'(x) &= (x-b)(x-c)+(x-a)(x-c)+(x-a)(x-b)\
          &= (x-b)(x-c) + (x-a)(2x - (b+c))end{align}$$

          At $x = frac{b+c}{2}$, we have



          $$p'(x) = frac{c-b}{2}cdotfrac{b-c}{2} + (x-a)cdot 0 = -frac{(c-b)^2}{4} le 0$$



          At $x = frac{b+2c}{3}$, we have



          $$begin{align}p'(x) &= frac{2(c-b)}{3}cdotfrac{b-c}{3}
          + left(frac{b+2c}{3} - aright)cdotfrac{c-b}{3}\
          &= -frac{2(c-b)^2}{9} + left(frac{2(c-b)}{3} + (b-a)right)cdotfrac{c-b}{3}\
          &= frac{(b-a)(c-b)}{3}\&ge 0end{align}$$

          This implies $p'(x)$ has a root in $left[frac{b+c}{2},frac{b+2c}{3}right]$.






          share|cite|improve this answer














          Since $p(x) = (x-a)(x-b)(x-c)$,



          $$begin{align}p'(x) &= (x-b)(x-c)+(x-a)(x-c)+(x-a)(x-b)\
          &= (x-b)(x-c) + (x-a)(2x - (b+c))end{align}$$

          At $x = frac{b+c}{2}$, we have



          $$p'(x) = frac{c-b}{2}cdotfrac{b-c}{2} + (x-a)cdot 0 = -frac{(c-b)^2}{4} le 0$$



          At $x = frac{b+2c}{3}$, we have



          $$begin{align}p'(x) &= frac{2(c-b)}{3}cdotfrac{b-c}{3}
          + left(frac{b+2c}{3} - aright)cdotfrac{c-b}{3}\
          &= -frac{2(c-b)^2}{9} + left(frac{2(c-b)}{3} + (b-a)right)cdotfrac{c-b}{3}\
          &= frac{(b-a)(c-b)}{3}\&ge 0end{align}$$

          This implies $p'(x)$ has a root in $left[frac{b+c}{2},frac{b+2c}{3}right]$.







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          edited Nov 25 at 22:55

























          answered Nov 25 at 22:48









          achille hui

          94.9k5129255




          94.9k5129255






















              up vote
              4
              down vote













              I have an inelegant brute force solution. Since the problem is translation invariant, we may assume $a=0$ to simplify calculations so that $0leq bleq c$. It should be clear that the root of $p'(x)$ we are interested in is the largest of the two i.e. the one with the plus sign. We need to prove that
              $$dfrac{3b+3c}{6}leqdfrac{2(b+c)+2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}}{6}leqdfrac{2b+4c}{6}$$
              On the left we obtain
              $$b+cleq 2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}$$
              where both sides are non-negative, squaring gives
              $$b^2+c^2+2bcleq 4(b^2+c^2-bc)Rightarrow 3b^2+3c^2-6bcgeq 0$$
              which holds. On the right we have
              $$2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}leq 2c$$
              so that
              $$b^2+c^2-bcleq c^2Rightarrow b(b-c)leq 0$$
              which holds since $0leq bleq c$.






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                4
                down vote













                I have an inelegant brute force solution. Since the problem is translation invariant, we may assume $a=0$ to simplify calculations so that $0leq bleq c$. It should be clear that the root of $p'(x)$ we are interested in is the largest of the two i.e. the one with the plus sign. We need to prove that
                $$dfrac{3b+3c}{6}leqdfrac{2(b+c)+2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}}{6}leqdfrac{2b+4c}{6}$$
                On the left we obtain
                $$b+cleq 2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}$$
                where both sides are non-negative, squaring gives
                $$b^2+c^2+2bcleq 4(b^2+c^2-bc)Rightarrow 3b^2+3c^2-6bcgeq 0$$
                which holds. On the right we have
                $$2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}leq 2c$$
                so that
                $$b^2+c^2-bcleq c^2Rightarrow b(b-c)leq 0$$
                which holds since $0leq bleq c$.






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote









                  I have an inelegant brute force solution. Since the problem is translation invariant, we may assume $a=0$ to simplify calculations so that $0leq bleq c$. It should be clear that the root of $p'(x)$ we are interested in is the largest of the two i.e. the one with the plus sign. We need to prove that
                  $$dfrac{3b+3c}{6}leqdfrac{2(b+c)+2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}}{6}leqdfrac{2b+4c}{6}$$
                  On the left we obtain
                  $$b+cleq 2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}$$
                  where both sides are non-negative, squaring gives
                  $$b^2+c^2+2bcleq 4(b^2+c^2-bc)Rightarrow 3b^2+3c^2-6bcgeq 0$$
                  which holds. On the right we have
                  $$2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}leq 2c$$
                  so that
                  $$b^2+c^2-bcleq c^2Rightarrow b(b-c)leq 0$$
                  which holds since $0leq bleq c$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  I have an inelegant brute force solution. Since the problem is translation invariant, we may assume $a=0$ to simplify calculations so that $0leq bleq c$. It should be clear that the root of $p'(x)$ we are interested in is the largest of the two i.e. the one with the plus sign. We need to prove that
                  $$dfrac{3b+3c}{6}leqdfrac{2(b+c)+2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}}{6}leqdfrac{2b+4c}{6}$$
                  On the left we obtain
                  $$b+cleq 2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}$$
                  where both sides are non-negative, squaring gives
                  $$b^2+c^2+2bcleq 4(b^2+c^2-bc)Rightarrow 3b^2+3c^2-6bcgeq 0$$
                  which holds. On the right we have
                  $$2sqrt{b^2+c^2-bc}leq 2c$$
                  so that
                  $$b^2+c^2-bcleq c^2Rightarrow b(b-c)leq 0$$
                  which holds since $0leq bleq c$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Nov 25 at 21:53









                  Olivier Moschetta

                  2,7661411




                  2,7661411






























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