Mobile automation: Boss wants 100% coverage. How feasible is that?












23















Just started a new mobile automation role using react native for iOS.



I'm not new to automation, but I am new to React Native (with detox and jest). The learning curve is slow, but we are getting there.



He wants a complete regression pack. That's fine...no problem.



However, he wants 100% coverage. That's my issue.



I will be using grey box testing. However, I do think certain principles are universal regardless...



I was always taught 'don't automate all the things....automate the RIGHT things'.



I will automating with a simulator (i.e. iPhone X). The thought has occurred to me. Can I automate with real device in grey box testing? As I would like to as then I will get more robust smoke and sanity test.



As I'm new to this role and still learning, it's discerning the RIGHT things the because I don't want to create unnecessary tests that create road blocks.



As I'm starting this framework from scratch I am wondering, if anyone has been in this position before?



How did they deal with it?










share|improve this question




















  • 8





    Unless the application is incredibly trivial, then it is impossible. One of the seven principles of software testing is that exhaustive testing is impossible. If your boss is asking for 100% coverage, remind them that execution time and all associated costs with rise. Testing based on risk and priority would be loads more beneficial, rather than a 'test everything' approach.

    – trashpanda
    Dec 5 '18 at 14:39






  • 14





    When you say 100% coverage are you talking about all code paths in a project or are you talking about 100% coverage of the different phone devices?

    – Alex KeySmith
    Dec 5 '18 at 16:10











  • @ Alex KeySmith . I think that is a very good question. This is what I've noticed in the last 10 days. I will be automating on a simulator and not a real device.

    – fypnlp
    Dec 5 '18 at 16:41








  • 2





    You don't have 100% test coverage unless you've tested every possible interrupt at every possible CPU instruction in the program. And this assumes the program has no input. It's worse for real programs.

    – Joshua
    Dec 5 '18 at 18:40






  • 8





    Coverage is like the speed of light. You can get arbitrarily close to 100% (with your investment growing exponentially as you get closer and closer to it), but you can never actually reach it.

    – vsz
    Dec 6 '18 at 5:24
















23















Just started a new mobile automation role using react native for iOS.



I'm not new to automation, but I am new to React Native (with detox and jest). The learning curve is slow, but we are getting there.



He wants a complete regression pack. That's fine...no problem.



However, he wants 100% coverage. That's my issue.



I will be using grey box testing. However, I do think certain principles are universal regardless...



I was always taught 'don't automate all the things....automate the RIGHT things'.



I will automating with a simulator (i.e. iPhone X). The thought has occurred to me. Can I automate with real device in grey box testing? As I would like to as then I will get more robust smoke and sanity test.



As I'm new to this role and still learning, it's discerning the RIGHT things the because I don't want to create unnecessary tests that create road blocks.



As I'm starting this framework from scratch I am wondering, if anyone has been in this position before?



How did they deal with it?










share|improve this question




















  • 8





    Unless the application is incredibly trivial, then it is impossible. One of the seven principles of software testing is that exhaustive testing is impossible. If your boss is asking for 100% coverage, remind them that execution time and all associated costs with rise. Testing based on risk and priority would be loads more beneficial, rather than a 'test everything' approach.

    – trashpanda
    Dec 5 '18 at 14:39






  • 14





    When you say 100% coverage are you talking about all code paths in a project or are you talking about 100% coverage of the different phone devices?

    – Alex KeySmith
    Dec 5 '18 at 16:10











  • @ Alex KeySmith . I think that is a very good question. This is what I've noticed in the last 10 days. I will be automating on a simulator and not a real device.

    – fypnlp
    Dec 5 '18 at 16:41








  • 2





    You don't have 100% test coverage unless you've tested every possible interrupt at every possible CPU instruction in the program. And this assumes the program has no input. It's worse for real programs.

    – Joshua
    Dec 5 '18 at 18:40






  • 8





    Coverage is like the speed of light. You can get arbitrarily close to 100% (with your investment growing exponentially as you get closer and closer to it), but you can never actually reach it.

    – vsz
    Dec 6 '18 at 5:24














23












23








23


8






Just started a new mobile automation role using react native for iOS.



I'm not new to automation, but I am new to React Native (with detox and jest). The learning curve is slow, but we are getting there.



He wants a complete regression pack. That's fine...no problem.



However, he wants 100% coverage. That's my issue.



I will be using grey box testing. However, I do think certain principles are universal regardless...



I was always taught 'don't automate all the things....automate the RIGHT things'.



I will automating with a simulator (i.e. iPhone X). The thought has occurred to me. Can I automate with real device in grey box testing? As I would like to as then I will get more robust smoke and sanity test.



As I'm new to this role and still learning, it's discerning the RIGHT things the because I don't want to create unnecessary tests that create road blocks.



As I'm starting this framework from scratch I am wondering, if anyone has been in this position before?



How did they deal with it?










share|improve this question
















Just started a new mobile automation role using react native for iOS.



I'm not new to automation, but I am new to React Native (with detox and jest). The learning curve is slow, but we are getting there.



He wants a complete regression pack. That's fine...no problem.



However, he wants 100% coverage. That's my issue.



I will be using grey box testing. However, I do think certain principles are universal regardless...



I was always taught 'don't automate all the things....automate the RIGHT things'.



I will automating with a simulator (i.e. iPhone X). The thought has occurred to me. Can I automate with real device in grey box testing? As I would like to as then I will get more robust smoke and sanity test.



As I'm new to this role and still learning, it's discerning the RIGHT things the because I don't want to create unnecessary tests that create road blocks.



As I'm starting this framework from scratch I am wondering, if anyone has been in this position before?



How did they deal with it?







automated-testing test-automation-framework mobile reactjs






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Dec 5 '18 at 20:58







fypnlp

















asked Dec 5 '18 at 12:49









fypnlpfypnlp

13917




13917








  • 8





    Unless the application is incredibly trivial, then it is impossible. One of the seven principles of software testing is that exhaustive testing is impossible. If your boss is asking for 100% coverage, remind them that execution time and all associated costs with rise. Testing based on risk and priority would be loads more beneficial, rather than a 'test everything' approach.

    – trashpanda
    Dec 5 '18 at 14:39






  • 14





    When you say 100% coverage are you talking about all code paths in a project or are you talking about 100% coverage of the different phone devices?

    – Alex KeySmith
    Dec 5 '18 at 16:10











  • @ Alex KeySmith . I think that is a very good question. This is what I've noticed in the last 10 days. I will be automating on a simulator and not a real device.

    – fypnlp
    Dec 5 '18 at 16:41








  • 2





    You don't have 100% test coverage unless you've tested every possible interrupt at every possible CPU instruction in the program. And this assumes the program has no input. It's worse for real programs.

    – Joshua
    Dec 5 '18 at 18:40






  • 8





    Coverage is like the speed of light. You can get arbitrarily close to 100% (with your investment growing exponentially as you get closer and closer to it), but you can never actually reach it.

    – vsz
    Dec 6 '18 at 5:24














  • 8





    Unless the application is incredibly trivial, then it is impossible. One of the seven principles of software testing is that exhaustive testing is impossible. If your boss is asking for 100% coverage, remind them that execution time and all associated costs with rise. Testing based on risk and priority would be loads more beneficial, rather than a 'test everything' approach.

    – trashpanda
    Dec 5 '18 at 14:39






  • 14





    When you say 100% coverage are you talking about all code paths in a project or are you talking about 100% coverage of the different phone devices?

    – Alex KeySmith
    Dec 5 '18 at 16:10











  • @ Alex KeySmith . I think that is a very good question. This is what I've noticed in the last 10 days. I will be automating on a simulator and not a real device.

    – fypnlp
    Dec 5 '18 at 16:41








  • 2





    You don't have 100% test coverage unless you've tested every possible interrupt at every possible CPU instruction in the program. And this assumes the program has no input. It's worse for real programs.

    – Joshua
    Dec 5 '18 at 18:40






  • 8





    Coverage is like the speed of light. You can get arbitrarily close to 100% (with your investment growing exponentially as you get closer and closer to it), but you can never actually reach it.

    – vsz
    Dec 6 '18 at 5:24








8




8





Unless the application is incredibly trivial, then it is impossible. One of the seven principles of software testing is that exhaustive testing is impossible. If your boss is asking for 100% coverage, remind them that execution time and all associated costs with rise. Testing based on risk and priority would be loads more beneficial, rather than a 'test everything' approach.

– trashpanda
Dec 5 '18 at 14:39





Unless the application is incredibly trivial, then it is impossible. One of the seven principles of software testing is that exhaustive testing is impossible. If your boss is asking for 100% coverage, remind them that execution time and all associated costs with rise. Testing based on risk and priority would be loads more beneficial, rather than a 'test everything' approach.

– trashpanda
Dec 5 '18 at 14:39




14




14





When you say 100% coverage are you talking about all code paths in a project or are you talking about 100% coverage of the different phone devices?

– Alex KeySmith
Dec 5 '18 at 16:10





When you say 100% coverage are you talking about all code paths in a project or are you talking about 100% coverage of the different phone devices?

– Alex KeySmith
Dec 5 '18 at 16:10













@ Alex KeySmith . I think that is a very good question. This is what I've noticed in the last 10 days. I will be automating on a simulator and not a real device.

– fypnlp
Dec 5 '18 at 16:41







@ Alex KeySmith . I think that is a very good question. This is what I've noticed in the last 10 days. I will be automating on a simulator and not a real device.

– fypnlp
Dec 5 '18 at 16:41






2




2





You don't have 100% test coverage unless you've tested every possible interrupt at every possible CPU instruction in the program. And this assumes the program has no input. It's worse for real programs.

– Joshua
Dec 5 '18 at 18:40





You don't have 100% test coverage unless you've tested every possible interrupt at every possible CPU instruction in the program. And this assumes the program has no input. It's worse for real programs.

– Joshua
Dec 5 '18 at 18:40




8




8





Coverage is like the speed of light. You can get arbitrarily close to 100% (with your investment growing exponentially as you get closer and closer to it), but you can never actually reach it.

– vsz
Dec 6 '18 at 5:24





Coverage is like the speed of light. You can get arbitrarily close to 100% (with your investment growing exponentially as you get closer and closer to it), but you can never actually reach it.

– vsz
Dec 6 '18 at 5:24










6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes


















26














Your boss doesn't want a flat "No" or to hear their request is impractical.



They want to reduce the risk of releasing changes to the application.



Make your boss choose your priorities, that is one of the roles of a manager.




  1. Add scenarios based on team knowledge and work with your boss to rank them by risk.

  2. Implement top priority scenarios

  3. Go back to step 1


Eventually, you will get to diminishing returns and you can move onto the next task.






share|improve this answer































    20














    John Ruberto wrote an article some years ago on Stickyminds entitled, "Is 100% Unit Test Coverage Enough?". The article can be found here:



    https://www.stickyminds.com/article/100-percent-unit-test-coverage-not-enough



    In it he presents the argument that there are different kinds of coverage. One could cover 100% of requirements, but that doesn't include edge cases a tester might look for during Exploratory Testing. It doesn't include security tests or UI tests. It doesn't cover unit tests. Now we're up to 5 passes over the application, or 500% testing. We haven't even covered the explosion of tests that configuration testing will bring.



    Your boss is throwing out a number. What he actually wants is an assurance that the thing that got built is going to do what it's supposed to do. Instead of getting hung up on a number as a minimum pass requirement, show him that based on your experience, you covered as much of the application in as many ways as you can think of that matter, and found this list of things that probably shouldn't happen. Based on that information, your boss or his boss will have to make a go/no go decision.



    Lee Copeland offers a different take on the subject, including answers to the question, "When do I stop testing?" in his presentation "The Banana Principle for Testers", found here:



    http://www.squadco.com/Conference_Presentations/Banana_Principle.pdf



    Asking for a minimum pass requirement as a percentage of anything is Management by Numbers and takes the go/no go decision out of your boss' hands. He's trying to absolve himself of the responsibility of failure by placing the requirement on you. In a shop where people make mistakes and learn from them instead of laying blame, this type of requirement doesn't come up.






    share|improve this answer





















    • 4





      Can I just say this is a shining example of how to link-and-summarize? Bravo!

      – corsiKa
      Dec 5 '18 at 23:19



















    10














    It's always good to use numbers to make your point-




    • There are N models and sub models of iPhones (for some applications you should also count the phone's network sub-type), each with M available iOS versions and sub versions (this is not entirely accurate, some models and iOS versions don't work together, but never mind that now)


    • Older iOS versions needs different automation tools.


    • You can communicate over WiFi, 3G or 4G and maybe Bluetooth and USB


    • You will want to test P versions back on newer iOS and iPhone versions



    Multiply the above and present to your boss






    share|improve this answer































      4














      I've spent a fair bit of time working on safety-related software. People die if the software fails, kind of safety.



      The first thing to note is that we had 100% test coverage of requirements. However that didn't have to be automated, sometimes because it wasn't practical, and sometimes because it wasn't physically possible. No safety-related standard requires 100% automated testing even for the most critical of systems, so the idea of doing it for an iPhone app is pretty ludicrous.



      The next thing to note is that there are various sorts of coverage which you might want for unit testing. Statement coverage is a nice start, because it guarantees that at least all code is reachable, but it doesn't say anything about whether it's been tested for correctness. Branch coverage is better, but you still can't be sure about why it branched. Condition coverage is more thorough and checks that for a comparison you've given it less than, equal and greater than conditions, but now your testing is expanding. Add combinatorial logic testing to check one of each condition true, all conditions true and no conditions true. Add boundary coverage to check for maximum/minimum value inputs and outputs. And so on.



      On an average project, we reckoned on around 5-10% of our time being spent on coding, 10% on requirements, and 20% on design. The rest was testing. And that was for lower safety levels. For serious safety stuff where we had to unit test like that, we reckoned on doubling that test time.



      We actually analysed this and decided to abandon function-level unit tests for most things. We found that the defect-to-cost ratio was not justifiable, and many of the bugs could not in fact manifest in the system because of limits higher up. Instead, we ramped up the amount of module-level and system-level testing, because evidence showed that this was where the majority of customer-visible bugs were found.



      So your boss needs to decide why he thinks this is a good idea. He needs to define what "100%" measurements you should be aiming for. And he needs to justify a 10x increase in the time to complete your project, because that's what your estimated delivery date should now say.






      share|improve this answer


























      • @Wildcard I get where you're coming from, but we put a lot more effort into requirements capture, so it covered a lot of stuff which might more normally be left to design. When requirements can be implemented unambiguously, design falls out much more naturally. If anything, I've overestimated coding time though.

        – Graham
        Dec 6 '18 at 8:56











      • @Wildcard I just read your first link. That's what we aimed for. Like the guy in there said, it's all about getting it in the spec.

        – Graham
        Dec 6 '18 at 9:03











      • Graham, I understand the point you're trying to get across and why you want it the way you do, but certain language is not permitted. If you would prefer to reword it that's fine but let's keep the phrasing free of offensive language. Thanks!

        – corsiKa
        Dec 27 '18 at 20:57



















      3














      It depends what they consider 100%, but my basic answer would be 'no' especially if these are UI level tests. Tests at this level are slow and expensive to write and maintain.



      It looks like you know this already, but write tests that cover the broad paths through the application/its functionality.






      share|improve this answer































        2














        Welcome to managing your manager. I agree with the sentiment that your boss doesn't want to hear a "No". That's not quite verbose enough. But, the answer is almost assuredly a "No".



        What you need is a way to communicate how and why to limit your test scope. Even if you tested all the permutations of every make-model, screen-size and OS, you will soon see that oh, there are different version of OS's and then oh, different browsers and oh those browser version. Oh, wow, now, it's next year and you have a new job because you missed the bug in your other product.



        So, really you need a risk-based approach. Knowing your test variables and what they mean to your likelihood of finding a bug is crucial.



        Find out what your customer-base is using. Someone should be monitoring this or collecting. And if you haven't rolled this out yet, get some consulting from a company like Perfect.



        Speaking of Perfecto, you will need to vary your tests in your test automation by desired capabilities or something like that. If you have to write different automation for each of your mobile device profiles in your test bed, then forget about it. Use a visual context or make sure the site or app you are testing is testable so that you can actually hook into the DOM.



        But, more than anything, decide where the risk is and have confidence that you are limiting your test scope appropriately so you can find the bugs instead of buying the magic beans of infinite test coverage.






        share|improve this answer























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          6 Answers
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          6 Answers
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          26














          Your boss doesn't want a flat "No" or to hear their request is impractical.



          They want to reduce the risk of releasing changes to the application.



          Make your boss choose your priorities, that is one of the roles of a manager.




          1. Add scenarios based on team knowledge and work with your boss to rank them by risk.

          2. Implement top priority scenarios

          3. Go back to step 1


          Eventually, you will get to diminishing returns and you can move onto the next task.






          share|improve this answer




























            26














            Your boss doesn't want a flat "No" or to hear their request is impractical.



            They want to reduce the risk of releasing changes to the application.



            Make your boss choose your priorities, that is one of the roles of a manager.




            1. Add scenarios based on team knowledge and work with your boss to rank them by risk.

            2. Implement top priority scenarios

            3. Go back to step 1


            Eventually, you will get to diminishing returns and you can move onto the next task.






            share|improve this answer


























              26












              26








              26







              Your boss doesn't want a flat "No" or to hear their request is impractical.



              They want to reduce the risk of releasing changes to the application.



              Make your boss choose your priorities, that is one of the roles of a manager.




              1. Add scenarios based on team knowledge and work with your boss to rank them by risk.

              2. Implement top priority scenarios

              3. Go back to step 1


              Eventually, you will get to diminishing returns and you can move onto the next task.






              share|improve this answer













              Your boss doesn't want a flat "No" or to hear their request is impractical.



              They want to reduce the risk of releasing changes to the application.



              Make your boss choose your priorities, that is one of the roles of a manager.




              1. Add scenarios based on team knowledge and work with your boss to rank them by risk.

              2. Implement top priority scenarios

              3. Go back to step 1


              Eventually, you will get to diminishing returns and you can move onto the next task.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered Dec 5 '18 at 19:31









              rickjr82rickjr82

              37112




              37112























                  20














                  John Ruberto wrote an article some years ago on Stickyminds entitled, "Is 100% Unit Test Coverage Enough?". The article can be found here:



                  https://www.stickyminds.com/article/100-percent-unit-test-coverage-not-enough



                  In it he presents the argument that there are different kinds of coverage. One could cover 100% of requirements, but that doesn't include edge cases a tester might look for during Exploratory Testing. It doesn't include security tests or UI tests. It doesn't cover unit tests. Now we're up to 5 passes over the application, or 500% testing. We haven't even covered the explosion of tests that configuration testing will bring.



                  Your boss is throwing out a number. What he actually wants is an assurance that the thing that got built is going to do what it's supposed to do. Instead of getting hung up on a number as a minimum pass requirement, show him that based on your experience, you covered as much of the application in as many ways as you can think of that matter, and found this list of things that probably shouldn't happen. Based on that information, your boss or his boss will have to make a go/no go decision.



                  Lee Copeland offers a different take on the subject, including answers to the question, "When do I stop testing?" in his presentation "The Banana Principle for Testers", found here:



                  http://www.squadco.com/Conference_Presentations/Banana_Principle.pdf



                  Asking for a minimum pass requirement as a percentage of anything is Management by Numbers and takes the go/no go decision out of your boss' hands. He's trying to absolve himself of the responsibility of failure by placing the requirement on you. In a shop where people make mistakes and learn from them instead of laying blame, this type of requirement doesn't come up.






                  share|improve this answer





















                  • 4





                    Can I just say this is a shining example of how to link-and-summarize? Bravo!

                    – corsiKa
                    Dec 5 '18 at 23:19
















                  20














                  John Ruberto wrote an article some years ago on Stickyminds entitled, "Is 100% Unit Test Coverage Enough?". The article can be found here:



                  https://www.stickyminds.com/article/100-percent-unit-test-coverage-not-enough



                  In it he presents the argument that there are different kinds of coverage. One could cover 100% of requirements, but that doesn't include edge cases a tester might look for during Exploratory Testing. It doesn't include security tests or UI tests. It doesn't cover unit tests. Now we're up to 5 passes over the application, or 500% testing. We haven't even covered the explosion of tests that configuration testing will bring.



                  Your boss is throwing out a number. What he actually wants is an assurance that the thing that got built is going to do what it's supposed to do. Instead of getting hung up on a number as a minimum pass requirement, show him that based on your experience, you covered as much of the application in as many ways as you can think of that matter, and found this list of things that probably shouldn't happen. Based on that information, your boss or his boss will have to make a go/no go decision.



                  Lee Copeland offers a different take on the subject, including answers to the question, "When do I stop testing?" in his presentation "The Banana Principle for Testers", found here:



                  http://www.squadco.com/Conference_Presentations/Banana_Principle.pdf



                  Asking for a minimum pass requirement as a percentage of anything is Management by Numbers and takes the go/no go decision out of your boss' hands. He's trying to absolve himself of the responsibility of failure by placing the requirement on you. In a shop where people make mistakes and learn from them instead of laying blame, this type of requirement doesn't come up.






                  share|improve this answer





















                  • 4





                    Can I just say this is a shining example of how to link-and-summarize? Bravo!

                    – corsiKa
                    Dec 5 '18 at 23:19














                  20












                  20








                  20







                  John Ruberto wrote an article some years ago on Stickyminds entitled, "Is 100% Unit Test Coverage Enough?". The article can be found here:



                  https://www.stickyminds.com/article/100-percent-unit-test-coverage-not-enough



                  In it he presents the argument that there are different kinds of coverage. One could cover 100% of requirements, but that doesn't include edge cases a tester might look for during Exploratory Testing. It doesn't include security tests or UI tests. It doesn't cover unit tests. Now we're up to 5 passes over the application, or 500% testing. We haven't even covered the explosion of tests that configuration testing will bring.



                  Your boss is throwing out a number. What he actually wants is an assurance that the thing that got built is going to do what it's supposed to do. Instead of getting hung up on a number as a minimum pass requirement, show him that based on your experience, you covered as much of the application in as many ways as you can think of that matter, and found this list of things that probably shouldn't happen. Based on that information, your boss or his boss will have to make a go/no go decision.



                  Lee Copeland offers a different take on the subject, including answers to the question, "When do I stop testing?" in his presentation "The Banana Principle for Testers", found here:



                  http://www.squadco.com/Conference_Presentations/Banana_Principle.pdf



                  Asking for a minimum pass requirement as a percentage of anything is Management by Numbers and takes the go/no go decision out of your boss' hands. He's trying to absolve himself of the responsibility of failure by placing the requirement on you. In a shop where people make mistakes and learn from them instead of laying blame, this type of requirement doesn't come up.






                  share|improve this answer















                  John Ruberto wrote an article some years ago on Stickyminds entitled, "Is 100% Unit Test Coverage Enough?". The article can be found here:



                  https://www.stickyminds.com/article/100-percent-unit-test-coverage-not-enough



                  In it he presents the argument that there are different kinds of coverage. One could cover 100% of requirements, but that doesn't include edge cases a tester might look for during Exploratory Testing. It doesn't include security tests or UI tests. It doesn't cover unit tests. Now we're up to 5 passes over the application, or 500% testing. We haven't even covered the explosion of tests that configuration testing will bring.



                  Your boss is throwing out a number. What he actually wants is an assurance that the thing that got built is going to do what it's supposed to do. Instead of getting hung up on a number as a minimum pass requirement, show him that based on your experience, you covered as much of the application in as many ways as you can think of that matter, and found this list of things that probably shouldn't happen. Based on that information, your boss or his boss will have to make a go/no go decision.



                  Lee Copeland offers a different take on the subject, including answers to the question, "When do I stop testing?" in his presentation "The Banana Principle for Testers", found here:



                  http://www.squadco.com/Conference_Presentations/Banana_Principle.pdf



                  Asking for a minimum pass requirement as a percentage of anything is Management by Numbers and takes the go/no go decision out of your boss' hands. He's trying to absolve himself of the responsibility of failure by placing the requirement on you. In a shop where people make mistakes and learn from them instead of laying blame, this type of requirement doesn't come up.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited Dec 6 '18 at 12:55

























                  answered Dec 5 '18 at 19:37









                  Jerry PennerJerry Penner

                  866411




                  866411








                  • 4





                    Can I just say this is a shining example of how to link-and-summarize? Bravo!

                    – corsiKa
                    Dec 5 '18 at 23:19














                  • 4





                    Can I just say this is a shining example of how to link-and-summarize? Bravo!

                    – corsiKa
                    Dec 5 '18 at 23:19








                  4




                  4





                  Can I just say this is a shining example of how to link-and-summarize? Bravo!

                  – corsiKa
                  Dec 5 '18 at 23:19





                  Can I just say this is a shining example of how to link-and-summarize? Bravo!

                  – corsiKa
                  Dec 5 '18 at 23:19











                  10














                  It's always good to use numbers to make your point-




                  • There are N models and sub models of iPhones (for some applications you should also count the phone's network sub-type), each with M available iOS versions and sub versions (this is not entirely accurate, some models and iOS versions don't work together, but never mind that now)


                  • Older iOS versions needs different automation tools.


                  • You can communicate over WiFi, 3G or 4G and maybe Bluetooth and USB


                  • You will want to test P versions back on newer iOS and iPhone versions



                  Multiply the above and present to your boss






                  share|improve this answer




























                    10














                    It's always good to use numbers to make your point-




                    • There are N models and sub models of iPhones (for some applications you should also count the phone's network sub-type), each with M available iOS versions and sub versions (this is not entirely accurate, some models and iOS versions don't work together, but never mind that now)


                    • Older iOS versions needs different automation tools.


                    • You can communicate over WiFi, 3G or 4G and maybe Bluetooth and USB


                    • You will want to test P versions back on newer iOS and iPhone versions



                    Multiply the above and present to your boss






                    share|improve this answer


























                      10












                      10








                      10







                      It's always good to use numbers to make your point-




                      • There are N models and sub models of iPhones (for some applications you should also count the phone's network sub-type), each with M available iOS versions and sub versions (this is not entirely accurate, some models and iOS versions don't work together, but never mind that now)


                      • Older iOS versions needs different automation tools.


                      • You can communicate over WiFi, 3G or 4G and maybe Bluetooth and USB


                      • You will want to test P versions back on newer iOS and iPhone versions



                      Multiply the above and present to your boss






                      share|improve this answer













                      It's always good to use numbers to make your point-




                      • There are N models and sub models of iPhones (for some applications you should also count the phone's network sub-type), each with M available iOS versions and sub versions (this is not entirely accurate, some models and iOS versions don't work together, but never mind that now)


                      • Older iOS versions needs different automation tools.


                      • You can communicate over WiFi, 3G or 4G and maybe Bluetooth and USB


                      • You will want to test P versions back on newer iOS and iPhone versions



                      Multiply the above and present to your boss







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered Dec 5 '18 at 15:17









                      RsfRsf

                      4,13911426




                      4,13911426























                          4














                          I've spent a fair bit of time working on safety-related software. People die if the software fails, kind of safety.



                          The first thing to note is that we had 100% test coverage of requirements. However that didn't have to be automated, sometimes because it wasn't practical, and sometimes because it wasn't physically possible. No safety-related standard requires 100% automated testing even for the most critical of systems, so the idea of doing it for an iPhone app is pretty ludicrous.



                          The next thing to note is that there are various sorts of coverage which you might want for unit testing. Statement coverage is a nice start, because it guarantees that at least all code is reachable, but it doesn't say anything about whether it's been tested for correctness. Branch coverage is better, but you still can't be sure about why it branched. Condition coverage is more thorough and checks that for a comparison you've given it less than, equal and greater than conditions, but now your testing is expanding. Add combinatorial logic testing to check one of each condition true, all conditions true and no conditions true. Add boundary coverage to check for maximum/minimum value inputs and outputs. And so on.



                          On an average project, we reckoned on around 5-10% of our time being spent on coding, 10% on requirements, and 20% on design. The rest was testing. And that was for lower safety levels. For serious safety stuff where we had to unit test like that, we reckoned on doubling that test time.



                          We actually analysed this and decided to abandon function-level unit tests for most things. We found that the defect-to-cost ratio was not justifiable, and many of the bugs could not in fact manifest in the system because of limits higher up. Instead, we ramped up the amount of module-level and system-level testing, because evidence showed that this was where the majority of customer-visible bugs were found.



                          So your boss needs to decide why he thinks this is a good idea. He needs to define what "100%" measurements you should be aiming for. And he needs to justify a 10x increase in the time to complete your project, because that's what your estimated delivery date should now say.






                          share|improve this answer


























                          • @Wildcard I get where you're coming from, but we put a lot more effort into requirements capture, so it covered a lot of stuff which might more normally be left to design. When requirements can be implemented unambiguously, design falls out much more naturally. If anything, I've overestimated coding time though.

                            – Graham
                            Dec 6 '18 at 8:56











                          • @Wildcard I just read your first link. That's what we aimed for. Like the guy in there said, it's all about getting it in the spec.

                            – Graham
                            Dec 6 '18 at 9:03











                          • Graham, I understand the point you're trying to get across and why you want it the way you do, but certain language is not permitted. If you would prefer to reword it that's fine but let's keep the phrasing free of offensive language. Thanks!

                            – corsiKa
                            Dec 27 '18 at 20:57
















                          4














                          I've spent a fair bit of time working on safety-related software. People die if the software fails, kind of safety.



                          The first thing to note is that we had 100% test coverage of requirements. However that didn't have to be automated, sometimes because it wasn't practical, and sometimes because it wasn't physically possible. No safety-related standard requires 100% automated testing even for the most critical of systems, so the idea of doing it for an iPhone app is pretty ludicrous.



                          The next thing to note is that there are various sorts of coverage which you might want for unit testing. Statement coverage is a nice start, because it guarantees that at least all code is reachable, but it doesn't say anything about whether it's been tested for correctness. Branch coverage is better, but you still can't be sure about why it branched. Condition coverage is more thorough and checks that for a comparison you've given it less than, equal and greater than conditions, but now your testing is expanding. Add combinatorial logic testing to check one of each condition true, all conditions true and no conditions true. Add boundary coverage to check for maximum/minimum value inputs and outputs. And so on.



                          On an average project, we reckoned on around 5-10% of our time being spent on coding, 10% on requirements, and 20% on design. The rest was testing. And that was for lower safety levels. For serious safety stuff where we had to unit test like that, we reckoned on doubling that test time.



                          We actually analysed this and decided to abandon function-level unit tests for most things. We found that the defect-to-cost ratio was not justifiable, and many of the bugs could not in fact manifest in the system because of limits higher up. Instead, we ramped up the amount of module-level and system-level testing, because evidence showed that this was where the majority of customer-visible bugs were found.



                          So your boss needs to decide why he thinks this is a good idea. He needs to define what "100%" measurements you should be aiming for. And he needs to justify a 10x increase in the time to complete your project, because that's what your estimated delivery date should now say.






                          share|improve this answer


























                          • @Wildcard I get where you're coming from, but we put a lot more effort into requirements capture, so it covered a lot of stuff which might more normally be left to design. When requirements can be implemented unambiguously, design falls out much more naturally. If anything, I've overestimated coding time though.

                            – Graham
                            Dec 6 '18 at 8:56











                          • @Wildcard I just read your first link. That's what we aimed for. Like the guy in there said, it's all about getting it in the spec.

                            – Graham
                            Dec 6 '18 at 9:03











                          • Graham, I understand the point you're trying to get across and why you want it the way you do, but certain language is not permitted. If you would prefer to reword it that's fine but let's keep the phrasing free of offensive language. Thanks!

                            – corsiKa
                            Dec 27 '18 at 20:57














                          4












                          4








                          4







                          I've spent a fair bit of time working on safety-related software. People die if the software fails, kind of safety.



                          The first thing to note is that we had 100% test coverage of requirements. However that didn't have to be automated, sometimes because it wasn't practical, and sometimes because it wasn't physically possible. No safety-related standard requires 100% automated testing even for the most critical of systems, so the idea of doing it for an iPhone app is pretty ludicrous.



                          The next thing to note is that there are various sorts of coverage which you might want for unit testing. Statement coverage is a nice start, because it guarantees that at least all code is reachable, but it doesn't say anything about whether it's been tested for correctness. Branch coverage is better, but you still can't be sure about why it branched. Condition coverage is more thorough and checks that for a comparison you've given it less than, equal and greater than conditions, but now your testing is expanding. Add combinatorial logic testing to check one of each condition true, all conditions true and no conditions true. Add boundary coverage to check for maximum/minimum value inputs and outputs. And so on.



                          On an average project, we reckoned on around 5-10% of our time being spent on coding, 10% on requirements, and 20% on design. The rest was testing. And that was for lower safety levels. For serious safety stuff where we had to unit test like that, we reckoned on doubling that test time.



                          We actually analysed this and decided to abandon function-level unit tests for most things. We found that the defect-to-cost ratio was not justifiable, and many of the bugs could not in fact manifest in the system because of limits higher up. Instead, we ramped up the amount of module-level and system-level testing, because evidence showed that this was where the majority of customer-visible bugs were found.



                          So your boss needs to decide why he thinks this is a good idea. He needs to define what "100%" measurements you should be aiming for. And he needs to justify a 10x increase in the time to complete your project, because that's what your estimated delivery date should now say.






                          share|improve this answer















                          I've spent a fair bit of time working on safety-related software. People die if the software fails, kind of safety.



                          The first thing to note is that we had 100% test coverage of requirements. However that didn't have to be automated, sometimes because it wasn't practical, and sometimes because it wasn't physically possible. No safety-related standard requires 100% automated testing even for the most critical of systems, so the idea of doing it for an iPhone app is pretty ludicrous.



                          The next thing to note is that there are various sorts of coverage which you might want for unit testing. Statement coverage is a nice start, because it guarantees that at least all code is reachable, but it doesn't say anything about whether it's been tested for correctness. Branch coverage is better, but you still can't be sure about why it branched. Condition coverage is more thorough and checks that for a comparison you've given it less than, equal and greater than conditions, but now your testing is expanding. Add combinatorial logic testing to check one of each condition true, all conditions true and no conditions true. Add boundary coverage to check for maximum/minimum value inputs and outputs. And so on.



                          On an average project, we reckoned on around 5-10% of our time being spent on coding, 10% on requirements, and 20% on design. The rest was testing. And that was for lower safety levels. For serious safety stuff where we had to unit test like that, we reckoned on doubling that test time.



                          We actually analysed this and decided to abandon function-level unit tests for most things. We found that the defect-to-cost ratio was not justifiable, and many of the bugs could not in fact manifest in the system because of limits higher up. Instead, we ramped up the amount of module-level and system-level testing, because evidence showed that this was where the majority of customer-visible bugs were found.



                          So your boss needs to decide why he thinks this is a good idea. He needs to define what "100%" measurements you should be aiming for. And he needs to justify a 10x increase in the time to complete your project, because that's what your estimated delivery date should now say.







                          share|improve this answer














                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer








                          edited Dec 27 '18 at 20:55









                          corsiKa

                          5,22743146




                          5,22743146










                          answered Dec 6 '18 at 1:31









                          GrahamGraham

                          1414




                          1414













                          • @Wildcard I get where you're coming from, but we put a lot more effort into requirements capture, so it covered a lot of stuff which might more normally be left to design. When requirements can be implemented unambiguously, design falls out much more naturally. If anything, I've overestimated coding time though.

                            – Graham
                            Dec 6 '18 at 8:56











                          • @Wildcard I just read your first link. That's what we aimed for. Like the guy in there said, it's all about getting it in the spec.

                            – Graham
                            Dec 6 '18 at 9:03











                          • Graham, I understand the point you're trying to get across and why you want it the way you do, but certain language is not permitted. If you would prefer to reword it that's fine but let's keep the phrasing free of offensive language. Thanks!

                            – corsiKa
                            Dec 27 '18 at 20:57



















                          • @Wildcard I get where you're coming from, but we put a lot more effort into requirements capture, so it covered a lot of stuff which might more normally be left to design. When requirements can be implemented unambiguously, design falls out much more naturally. If anything, I've overestimated coding time though.

                            – Graham
                            Dec 6 '18 at 8:56











                          • @Wildcard I just read your first link. That's what we aimed for. Like the guy in there said, it's all about getting it in the spec.

                            – Graham
                            Dec 6 '18 at 9:03











                          • Graham, I understand the point you're trying to get across and why you want it the way you do, but certain language is not permitted. If you would prefer to reword it that's fine but let's keep the phrasing free of offensive language. Thanks!

                            – corsiKa
                            Dec 27 '18 at 20:57

















                          @Wildcard I get where you're coming from, but we put a lot more effort into requirements capture, so it covered a lot of stuff which might more normally be left to design. When requirements can be implemented unambiguously, design falls out much more naturally. If anything, I've overestimated coding time though.

                          – Graham
                          Dec 6 '18 at 8:56





                          @Wildcard I get where you're coming from, but we put a lot more effort into requirements capture, so it covered a lot of stuff which might more normally be left to design. When requirements can be implemented unambiguously, design falls out much more naturally. If anything, I've overestimated coding time though.

                          – Graham
                          Dec 6 '18 at 8:56













                          @Wildcard I just read your first link. That's what we aimed for. Like the guy in there said, it's all about getting it in the spec.

                          – Graham
                          Dec 6 '18 at 9:03





                          @Wildcard I just read your first link. That's what we aimed for. Like the guy in there said, it's all about getting it in the spec.

                          – Graham
                          Dec 6 '18 at 9:03













                          Graham, I understand the point you're trying to get across and why you want it the way you do, but certain language is not permitted. If you would prefer to reword it that's fine but let's keep the phrasing free of offensive language. Thanks!

                          – corsiKa
                          Dec 27 '18 at 20:57





                          Graham, I understand the point you're trying to get across and why you want it the way you do, but certain language is not permitted. If you would prefer to reword it that's fine but let's keep the phrasing free of offensive language. Thanks!

                          – corsiKa
                          Dec 27 '18 at 20:57











                          3














                          It depends what they consider 100%, but my basic answer would be 'no' especially if these are UI level tests. Tests at this level are slow and expensive to write and maintain.



                          It looks like you know this already, but write tests that cover the broad paths through the application/its functionality.






                          share|improve this answer




























                            3














                            It depends what they consider 100%, but my basic answer would be 'no' especially if these are UI level tests. Tests at this level are slow and expensive to write and maintain.



                            It looks like you know this already, but write tests that cover the broad paths through the application/its functionality.






                            share|improve this answer


























                              3












                              3








                              3







                              It depends what they consider 100%, but my basic answer would be 'no' especially if these are UI level tests. Tests at this level are slow and expensive to write and maintain.



                              It looks like you know this already, but write tests that cover the broad paths through the application/its functionality.






                              share|improve this answer













                              It depends what they consider 100%, but my basic answer would be 'no' especially if these are UI level tests. Tests at this level are slow and expensive to write and maintain.



                              It looks like you know this already, but write tests that cover the broad paths through the application/its functionality.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered Dec 5 '18 at 15:14









                              anonygooseanonygoose

                              1334




                              1334























                                  2














                                  Welcome to managing your manager. I agree with the sentiment that your boss doesn't want to hear a "No". That's not quite verbose enough. But, the answer is almost assuredly a "No".



                                  What you need is a way to communicate how and why to limit your test scope. Even if you tested all the permutations of every make-model, screen-size and OS, you will soon see that oh, there are different version of OS's and then oh, different browsers and oh those browser version. Oh, wow, now, it's next year and you have a new job because you missed the bug in your other product.



                                  So, really you need a risk-based approach. Knowing your test variables and what they mean to your likelihood of finding a bug is crucial.



                                  Find out what your customer-base is using. Someone should be monitoring this or collecting. And if you haven't rolled this out yet, get some consulting from a company like Perfect.



                                  Speaking of Perfecto, you will need to vary your tests in your test automation by desired capabilities or something like that. If you have to write different automation for each of your mobile device profiles in your test bed, then forget about it. Use a visual context or make sure the site or app you are testing is testable so that you can actually hook into the DOM.



                                  But, more than anything, decide where the risk is and have confidence that you are limiting your test scope appropriately so you can find the bugs instead of buying the magic beans of infinite test coverage.






                                  share|improve this answer




























                                    2














                                    Welcome to managing your manager. I agree with the sentiment that your boss doesn't want to hear a "No". That's not quite verbose enough. But, the answer is almost assuredly a "No".



                                    What you need is a way to communicate how and why to limit your test scope. Even if you tested all the permutations of every make-model, screen-size and OS, you will soon see that oh, there are different version of OS's and then oh, different browsers and oh those browser version. Oh, wow, now, it's next year and you have a new job because you missed the bug in your other product.



                                    So, really you need a risk-based approach. Knowing your test variables and what they mean to your likelihood of finding a bug is crucial.



                                    Find out what your customer-base is using. Someone should be monitoring this or collecting. And if you haven't rolled this out yet, get some consulting from a company like Perfect.



                                    Speaking of Perfecto, you will need to vary your tests in your test automation by desired capabilities or something like that. If you have to write different automation for each of your mobile device profiles in your test bed, then forget about it. Use a visual context or make sure the site or app you are testing is testable so that you can actually hook into the DOM.



                                    But, more than anything, decide where the risk is and have confidence that you are limiting your test scope appropriately so you can find the bugs instead of buying the magic beans of infinite test coverage.






                                    share|improve this answer


























                                      2












                                      2








                                      2







                                      Welcome to managing your manager. I agree with the sentiment that your boss doesn't want to hear a "No". That's not quite verbose enough. But, the answer is almost assuredly a "No".



                                      What you need is a way to communicate how and why to limit your test scope. Even if you tested all the permutations of every make-model, screen-size and OS, you will soon see that oh, there are different version of OS's and then oh, different browsers and oh those browser version. Oh, wow, now, it's next year and you have a new job because you missed the bug in your other product.



                                      So, really you need a risk-based approach. Knowing your test variables and what they mean to your likelihood of finding a bug is crucial.



                                      Find out what your customer-base is using. Someone should be monitoring this or collecting. And if you haven't rolled this out yet, get some consulting from a company like Perfect.



                                      Speaking of Perfecto, you will need to vary your tests in your test automation by desired capabilities or something like that. If you have to write different automation for each of your mobile device profiles in your test bed, then forget about it. Use a visual context or make sure the site or app you are testing is testable so that you can actually hook into the DOM.



                                      But, more than anything, decide where the risk is and have confidence that you are limiting your test scope appropriately so you can find the bugs instead of buying the magic beans of infinite test coverage.






                                      share|improve this answer













                                      Welcome to managing your manager. I agree with the sentiment that your boss doesn't want to hear a "No". That's not quite verbose enough. But, the answer is almost assuredly a "No".



                                      What you need is a way to communicate how and why to limit your test scope. Even if you tested all the permutations of every make-model, screen-size and OS, you will soon see that oh, there are different version of OS's and then oh, different browsers and oh those browser version. Oh, wow, now, it's next year and you have a new job because you missed the bug in your other product.



                                      So, really you need a risk-based approach. Knowing your test variables and what they mean to your likelihood of finding a bug is crucial.



                                      Find out what your customer-base is using. Someone should be monitoring this or collecting. And if you haven't rolled this out yet, get some consulting from a company like Perfect.



                                      Speaking of Perfecto, you will need to vary your tests in your test automation by desired capabilities or something like that. If you have to write different automation for each of your mobile device profiles in your test bed, then forget about it. Use a visual context or make sure the site or app you are testing is testable so that you can actually hook into the DOM.



                                      But, more than anything, decide where the risk is and have confidence that you are limiting your test scope appropriately so you can find the bugs instead of buying the magic beans of infinite test coverage.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered Dec 6 '18 at 17:59









                                      ModelTesterModelTester

                                      411




                                      411






























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