Compactness of intersection of a compact set and an open set
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If $K subset E_1 cup E_2$, where $K$ is compact and $E_1, E_2$ are disjoint open subsets of a topological space, is $K cap E_1$ compact? Is that always the case if $E_1, E_2$ are not disjoint?
I've seen other threads that have this, so I was wondering why the solution I thought of is incorrect:
Let $U_{alpha}$ be an open covering of $K$. Then because $K$ is compact, there is a finite subcovering $U_1, U_2, ldots, U_N in U_{alpha}$ that cover $K$. But then $U_1, ldots, U_N, E_1$ is a finite collection of open sets that covers $K$ and $E_1$, so it covers $K cap E_1$, and so $K cap E_1$ must be compact.
real-analysis general-topology compactness
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up vote
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If $K subset E_1 cup E_2$, where $K$ is compact and $E_1, E_2$ are disjoint open subsets of a topological space, is $K cap E_1$ compact? Is that always the case if $E_1, E_2$ are not disjoint?
I've seen other threads that have this, so I was wondering why the solution I thought of is incorrect:
Let $U_{alpha}$ be an open covering of $K$. Then because $K$ is compact, there is a finite subcovering $U_1, U_2, ldots, U_N in U_{alpha}$ that cover $K$. But then $U_1, ldots, U_N, E_1$ is a finite collection of open sets that covers $K$ and $E_1$, so it covers $K cap E_1$, and so $K cap E_1$ must be compact.
real-analysis general-topology compactness
If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are not disjoint, you might as well take $E_2=X$ (the whole space); so you're just asking, if $K$ is compact and $E_1$ is open, is $Kcap E_1$ compact?
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:05
If $E_1,E_2$ don't have to be disjoint, here is a counterexample: $K=[0,1]$, $E_1=(0,1)$, $E_2=mathbb R$. $E_1$ and $E_2$ are open subsets of the space $mathbb R$, $K$ is a compact subset of $E_1cup E_2$, but $Kcap E_1=E_1$ is not compact.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:08
If your argument were correct (which it is not), it would prove that any subset of a compact set is compact.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:09
Yes, I realize the conclusion of this "proof" is incorrect, but I was wondering where the flaw was that led to this false conclusion.
– A. Smith
Nov 14 at 8:10
2
To prove that $Kcap E_1$ is compact, you have to show that any open cover of $Kcap E_1$ has a finite subcover. Proving that an open cover of $K$ has a finite subcover doesn't do it.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:11
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
If $K subset E_1 cup E_2$, where $K$ is compact and $E_1, E_2$ are disjoint open subsets of a topological space, is $K cap E_1$ compact? Is that always the case if $E_1, E_2$ are not disjoint?
I've seen other threads that have this, so I was wondering why the solution I thought of is incorrect:
Let $U_{alpha}$ be an open covering of $K$. Then because $K$ is compact, there is a finite subcovering $U_1, U_2, ldots, U_N in U_{alpha}$ that cover $K$. But then $U_1, ldots, U_N, E_1$ is a finite collection of open sets that covers $K$ and $E_1$, so it covers $K cap E_1$, and so $K cap E_1$ must be compact.
real-analysis general-topology compactness
If $K subset E_1 cup E_2$, where $K$ is compact and $E_1, E_2$ are disjoint open subsets of a topological space, is $K cap E_1$ compact? Is that always the case if $E_1, E_2$ are not disjoint?
I've seen other threads that have this, so I was wondering why the solution I thought of is incorrect:
Let $U_{alpha}$ be an open covering of $K$. Then because $K$ is compact, there is a finite subcovering $U_1, U_2, ldots, U_N in U_{alpha}$ that cover $K$. But then $U_1, ldots, U_N, E_1$ is a finite collection of open sets that covers $K$ and $E_1$, so it covers $K cap E_1$, and so $K cap E_1$ must be compact.
real-analysis general-topology compactness
real-analysis general-topology compactness
asked Nov 14 at 7:50
A. Smith
404
404
If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are not disjoint, you might as well take $E_2=X$ (the whole space); so you're just asking, if $K$ is compact and $E_1$ is open, is $Kcap E_1$ compact?
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:05
If $E_1,E_2$ don't have to be disjoint, here is a counterexample: $K=[0,1]$, $E_1=(0,1)$, $E_2=mathbb R$. $E_1$ and $E_2$ are open subsets of the space $mathbb R$, $K$ is a compact subset of $E_1cup E_2$, but $Kcap E_1=E_1$ is not compact.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:08
If your argument were correct (which it is not), it would prove that any subset of a compact set is compact.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:09
Yes, I realize the conclusion of this "proof" is incorrect, but I was wondering where the flaw was that led to this false conclusion.
– A. Smith
Nov 14 at 8:10
2
To prove that $Kcap E_1$ is compact, you have to show that any open cover of $Kcap E_1$ has a finite subcover. Proving that an open cover of $K$ has a finite subcover doesn't do it.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:11
|
show 3 more comments
If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are not disjoint, you might as well take $E_2=X$ (the whole space); so you're just asking, if $K$ is compact and $E_1$ is open, is $Kcap E_1$ compact?
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:05
If $E_1,E_2$ don't have to be disjoint, here is a counterexample: $K=[0,1]$, $E_1=(0,1)$, $E_2=mathbb R$. $E_1$ and $E_2$ are open subsets of the space $mathbb R$, $K$ is a compact subset of $E_1cup E_2$, but $Kcap E_1=E_1$ is not compact.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:08
If your argument were correct (which it is not), it would prove that any subset of a compact set is compact.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:09
Yes, I realize the conclusion of this "proof" is incorrect, but I was wondering where the flaw was that led to this false conclusion.
– A. Smith
Nov 14 at 8:10
2
To prove that $Kcap E_1$ is compact, you have to show that any open cover of $Kcap E_1$ has a finite subcover. Proving that an open cover of $K$ has a finite subcover doesn't do it.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:11
If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are not disjoint, you might as well take $E_2=X$ (the whole space); so you're just asking, if $K$ is compact and $E_1$ is open, is $Kcap E_1$ compact?
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:05
If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are not disjoint, you might as well take $E_2=X$ (the whole space); so you're just asking, if $K$ is compact and $E_1$ is open, is $Kcap E_1$ compact?
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:05
If $E_1,E_2$ don't have to be disjoint, here is a counterexample: $K=[0,1]$, $E_1=(0,1)$, $E_2=mathbb R$. $E_1$ and $E_2$ are open subsets of the space $mathbb R$, $K$ is a compact subset of $E_1cup E_2$, but $Kcap E_1=E_1$ is not compact.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:08
If $E_1,E_2$ don't have to be disjoint, here is a counterexample: $K=[0,1]$, $E_1=(0,1)$, $E_2=mathbb R$. $E_1$ and $E_2$ are open subsets of the space $mathbb R$, $K$ is a compact subset of $E_1cup E_2$, but $Kcap E_1=E_1$ is not compact.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:08
If your argument were correct (which it is not), it would prove that any subset of a compact set is compact.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:09
If your argument were correct (which it is not), it would prove that any subset of a compact set is compact.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:09
Yes, I realize the conclusion of this "proof" is incorrect, but I was wondering where the flaw was that led to this false conclusion.
– A. Smith
Nov 14 at 8:10
Yes, I realize the conclusion of this "proof" is incorrect, but I was wondering where the flaw was that led to this false conclusion.
– A. Smith
Nov 14 at 8:10
2
2
To prove that $Kcap E_1$ is compact, you have to show that any open cover of $Kcap E_1$ has a finite subcover. Proving that an open cover of $K$ has a finite subcover doesn't do it.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:11
To prove that $Kcap E_1$ is compact, you have to show that any open cover of $Kcap E_1$ has a finite subcover. Proving that an open cover of $K$ has a finite subcover doesn't do it.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:11
|
show 3 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
Assuming that your space is Hausdorff $Ksetminus E_2=Kcap E_1$ and $Ksetminus E_2$ is compact. On second thoughts you don't need Hausdorff property!.
Where do you think you need Hausdorff? If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are disjoint and $Ksubseteq E_1cup E_2$ then $Kcap E_1=Ksetminus E_2$ is just set theory. If $K$ is compact and $E_2$ is open then $Ksetminus E_2$ is compact in any topological space.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:15
@bof You are right.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
Nov 14 at 8:18
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Your proof should start with a cover $mathcal{U}$ (WLOG by open sets of $X$) of $K cap E_1$, and produce a finite subcover of that:
Add the one set $E_2$ to $mathcal{U}$ and we have an open cover of $K$ (any set in $K$ lies in $E_1$ or $E_2$ and the first ones are covered by $mathcal{U}$ the other by $E_2$..) and so $mathcal{U} cup {E_2}$ has a finite subcover $mathcal{U}'$ and then $mathcal{U}'setminus {E_2}$ is still finite (smaller than the finite $mathcal{U}'$) and a subcover of $mathcal{U}$. So $K cap E_1$ is compact.
Alternatively note that $Kcap E_1 = K cap (Xsetminus E_2)$ and thus is a closed subset of the compact $K$ and hence compact too.
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
Assuming that your space is Hausdorff $Ksetminus E_2=Kcap E_1$ and $Ksetminus E_2$ is compact. On second thoughts you don't need Hausdorff property!.
Where do you think you need Hausdorff? If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are disjoint and $Ksubseteq E_1cup E_2$ then $Kcap E_1=Ksetminus E_2$ is just set theory. If $K$ is compact and $E_2$ is open then $Ksetminus E_2$ is compact in any topological space.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:15
@bof You are right.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
Nov 14 at 8:18
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Assuming that your space is Hausdorff $Ksetminus E_2=Kcap E_1$ and $Ksetminus E_2$ is compact. On second thoughts you don't need Hausdorff property!.
Where do you think you need Hausdorff? If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are disjoint and $Ksubseteq E_1cup E_2$ then $Kcap E_1=Ksetminus E_2$ is just set theory. If $K$ is compact and $E_2$ is open then $Ksetminus E_2$ is compact in any topological space.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:15
@bof You are right.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
Nov 14 at 8:18
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Assuming that your space is Hausdorff $Ksetminus E_2=Kcap E_1$ and $Ksetminus E_2$ is compact. On second thoughts you don't need Hausdorff property!.
Assuming that your space is Hausdorff $Ksetminus E_2=Kcap E_1$ and $Ksetminus E_2$ is compact. On second thoughts you don't need Hausdorff property!.
edited Nov 14 at 8:18
answered Nov 14 at 7:59
Kavi Rama Murthy
39.6k31749
39.6k31749
Where do you think you need Hausdorff? If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are disjoint and $Ksubseteq E_1cup E_2$ then $Kcap E_1=Ksetminus E_2$ is just set theory. If $K$ is compact and $E_2$ is open then $Ksetminus E_2$ is compact in any topological space.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:15
@bof You are right.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
Nov 14 at 8:18
add a comment |
Where do you think you need Hausdorff? If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are disjoint and $Ksubseteq E_1cup E_2$ then $Kcap E_1=Ksetminus E_2$ is just set theory. If $K$ is compact and $E_2$ is open then $Ksetminus E_2$ is compact in any topological space.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:15
@bof You are right.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
Nov 14 at 8:18
Where do you think you need Hausdorff? If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are disjoint and $Ksubseteq E_1cup E_2$ then $Kcap E_1=Ksetminus E_2$ is just set theory. If $K$ is compact and $E_2$ is open then $Ksetminus E_2$ is compact in any topological space.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:15
Where do you think you need Hausdorff? If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are disjoint and $Ksubseteq E_1cup E_2$ then $Kcap E_1=Ksetminus E_2$ is just set theory. If $K$ is compact and $E_2$ is open then $Ksetminus E_2$ is compact in any topological space.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:15
@bof You are right.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
Nov 14 at 8:18
@bof You are right.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
Nov 14 at 8:18
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Your proof should start with a cover $mathcal{U}$ (WLOG by open sets of $X$) of $K cap E_1$, and produce a finite subcover of that:
Add the one set $E_2$ to $mathcal{U}$ and we have an open cover of $K$ (any set in $K$ lies in $E_1$ or $E_2$ and the first ones are covered by $mathcal{U}$ the other by $E_2$..) and so $mathcal{U} cup {E_2}$ has a finite subcover $mathcal{U}'$ and then $mathcal{U}'setminus {E_2}$ is still finite (smaller than the finite $mathcal{U}'$) and a subcover of $mathcal{U}$. So $K cap E_1$ is compact.
Alternatively note that $Kcap E_1 = K cap (Xsetminus E_2)$ and thus is a closed subset of the compact $K$ and hence compact too.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Your proof should start with a cover $mathcal{U}$ (WLOG by open sets of $X$) of $K cap E_1$, and produce a finite subcover of that:
Add the one set $E_2$ to $mathcal{U}$ and we have an open cover of $K$ (any set in $K$ lies in $E_1$ or $E_2$ and the first ones are covered by $mathcal{U}$ the other by $E_2$..) and so $mathcal{U} cup {E_2}$ has a finite subcover $mathcal{U}'$ and then $mathcal{U}'setminus {E_2}$ is still finite (smaller than the finite $mathcal{U}'$) and a subcover of $mathcal{U}$. So $K cap E_1$ is compact.
Alternatively note that $Kcap E_1 = K cap (Xsetminus E_2)$ and thus is a closed subset of the compact $K$ and hence compact too.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Your proof should start with a cover $mathcal{U}$ (WLOG by open sets of $X$) of $K cap E_1$, and produce a finite subcover of that:
Add the one set $E_2$ to $mathcal{U}$ and we have an open cover of $K$ (any set in $K$ lies in $E_1$ or $E_2$ and the first ones are covered by $mathcal{U}$ the other by $E_2$..) and so $mathcal{U} cup {E_2}$ has a finite subcover $mathcal{U}'$ and then $mathcal{U}'setminus {E_2}$ is still finite (smaller than the finite $mathcal{U}'$) and a subcover of $mathcal{U}$. So $K cap E_1$ is compact.
Alternatively note that $Kcap E_1 = K cap (Xsetminus E_2)$ and thus is a closed subset of the compact $K$ and hence compact too.
Your proof should start with a cover $mathcal{U}$ (WLOG by open sets of $X$) of $K cap E_1$, and produce a finite subcover of that:
Add the one set $E_2$ to $mathcal{U}$ and we have an open cover of $K$ (any set in $K$ lies in $E_1$ or $E_2$ and the first ones are covered by $mathcal{U}$ the other by $E_2$..) and so $mathcal{U} cup {E_2}$ has a finite subcover $mathcal{U}'$ and then $mathcal{U}'setminus {E_2}$ is still finite (smaller than the finite $mathcal{U}'$) and a subcover of $mathcal{U}$. So $K cap E_1$ is compact.
Alternatively note that $Kcap E_1 = K cap (Xsetminus E_2)$ and thus is a closed subset of the compact $K$ and hence compact too.
edited Nov 14 at 22:52
answered Nov 14 at 17:22
Henno Brandsma
101k344107
101k344107
add a comment |
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If $E_1$ and $E_2$ are not disjoint, you might as well take $E_2=X$ (the whole space); so you're just asking, if $K$ is compact and $E_1$ is open, is $Kcap E_1$ compact?
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:05
If $E_1,E_2$ don't have to be disjoint, here is a counterexample: $K=[0,1]$, $E_1=(0,1)$, $E_2=mathbb R$. $E_1$ and $E_2$ are open subsets of the space $mathbb R$, $K$ is a compact subset of $E_1cup E_2$, but $Kcap E_1=E_1$ is not compact.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:08
If your argument were correct (which it is not), it would prove that any subset of a compact set is compact.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:09
Yes, I realize the conclusion of this "proof" is incorrect, but I was wondering where the flaw was that led to this false conclusion.
– A. Smith
Nov 14 at 8:10
2
To prove that $Kcap E_1$ is compact, you have to show that any open cover of $Kcap E_1$ has a finite subcover. Proving that an open cover of $K$ has a finite subcover doesn't do it.
– bof
Nov 14 at 8:11