Do not understand L'Hopital Rule
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2
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I have just started learning L'Hopital rule, and so far I thought I understood everything until I stumbled upon this question
$$lim_{xto 0} frac{ln(cos(ax))}{ln(cos(bx))}.$$
To this, eventually got
$$lim_{xto 0} frac{a sin(ax) cos(bx)}{b sin(bx)cos(ax)}$$
From my knowledge, $sin(0)$ is 0!! and the whole thing will be ''$frac{0}{0}$'', however the answer key I was given does not continue the implementation of the L'Hopital rule, but instead obtains the answer $frac{a^2}{b^2}$.
Is there some important concept I'm missing out? Or is the differentiation supposed to continue and the answer key just skipped the steps?
calculus real-analysis limits derivatives
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up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I have just started learning L'Hopital rule, and so far I thought I understood everything until I stumbled upon this question
$$lim_{xto 0} frac{ln(cos(ax))}{ln(cos(bx))}.$$
To this, eventually got
$$lim_{xto 0} frac{a sin(ax) cos(bx)}{b sin(bx)cos(ax)}$$
From my knowledge, $sin(0)$ is 0!! and the whole thing will be ''$frac{0}{0}$'', however the answer key I was given does not continue the implementation of the L'Hopital rule, but instead obtains the answer $frac{a^2}{b^2}$.
Is there some important concept I'm missing out? Or is the differentiation supposed to continue and the answer key just skipped the steps?
calculus real-analysis limits derivatives
2
Short answer: since $sin(ax), sin(bx) xrightarrow{x to 0} 0$, you have the apply L'Hospital's rule a second time.
– Viktor Glombik
Nov 17 at 10:58
Are you asking why your answer key does not use L'Hopital rule although the limit is of the form $0/0$, or are you getting stuck while applying the rule?
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 17 at 10:59
1
Note that $lim_{xto 0}frac{sin(ax)}{x}=a$
– Robert Z
Nov 17 at 11:00
@астонвіллаолофмэллбэрг the question does use the rule but the answer doesn’t tally up with what i know and i was just wondering if there are gaps in my knowledge, like the derivative i came up with is supposed to be 0/0 but the answer key shows a^2/b^2
– Ranice Tan
Nov 17 at 11:00
1
@RaniceTan For getting a better idea of how you and the answer key differ, reproduce the answer from the answer key here, and then show your own working and why you are getting $0/0$ where the answer key is getting $a^2/b^2$.
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 17 at 11:03
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I have just started learning L'Hopital rule, and so far I thought I understood everything until I stumbled upon this question
$$lim_{xto 0} frac{ln(cos(ax))}{ln(cos(bx))}.$$
To this, eventually got
$$lim_{xto 0} frac{a sin(ax) cos(bx)}{b sin(bx)cos(ax)}$$
From my knowledge, $sin(0)$ is 0!! and the whole thing will be ''$frac{0}{0}$'', however the answer key I was given does not continue the implementation of the L'Hopital rule, but instead obtains the answer $frac{a^2}{b^2}$.
Is there some important concept I'm missing out? Or is the differentiation supposed to continue and the answer key just skipped the steps?
calculus real-analysis limits derivatives
I have just started learning L'Hopital rule, and so far I thought I understood everything until I stumbled upon this question
$$lim_{xto 0} frac{ln(cos(ax))}{ln(cos(bx))}.$$
To this, eventually got
$$lim_{xto 0} frac{a sin(ax) cos(bx)}{b sin(bx)cos(ax)}$$
From my knowledge, $sin(0)$ is 0!! and the whole thing will be ''$frac{0}{0}$'', however the answer key I was given does not continue the implementation of the L'Hopital rule, but instead obtains the answer $frac{a^2}{b^2}$.
Is there some important concept I'm missing out? Or is the differentiation supposed to continue and the answer key just skipped the steps?
calculus real-analysis limits derivatives
calculus real-analysis limits derivatives
edited Nov 17 at 11:26
Argon
204
204
asked Nov 17 at 10:55
Ranice Tan
182
182
2
Short answer: since $sin(ax), sin(bx) xrightarrow{x to 0} 0$, you have the apply L'Hospital's rule a second time.
– Viktor Glombik
Nov 17 at 10:58
Are you asking why your answer key does not use L'Hopital rule although the limit is of the form $0/0$, or are you getting stuck while applying the rule?
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 17 at 10:59
1
Note that $lim_{xto 0}frac{sin(ax)}{x}=a$
– Robert Z
Nov 17 at 11:00
@астонвіллаолофмэллбэрг the question does use the rule but the answer doesn’t tally up with what i know and i was just wondering if there are gaps in my knowledge, like the derivative i came up with is supposed to be 0/0 but the answer key shows a^2/b^2
– Ranice Tan
Nov 17 at 11:00
1
@RaniceTan For getting a better idea of how you and the answer key differ, reproduce the answer from the answer key here, and then show your own working and why you are getting $0/0$ where the answer key is getting $a^2/b^2$.
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 17 at 11:03
add a comment |
2
Short answer: since $sin(ax), sin(bx) xrightarrow{x to 0} 0$, you have the apply L'Hospital's rule a second time.
– Viktor Glombik
Nov 17 at 10:58
Are you asking why your answer key does not use L'Hopital rule although the limit is of the form $0/0$, or are you getting stuck while applying the rule?
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 17 at 10:59
1
Note that $lim_{xto 0}frac{sin(ax)}{x}=a$
– Robert Z
Nov 17 at 11:00
@астонвіллаолофмэллбэрг the question does use the rule but the answer doesn’t tally up with what i know and i was just wondering if there are gaps in my knowledge, like the derivative i came up with is supposed to be 0/0 but the answer key shows a^2/b^2
– Ranice Tan
Nov 17 at 11:00
1
@RaniceTan For getting a better idea of how you and the answer key differ, reproduce the answer from the answer key here, and then show your own working and why you are getting $0/0$ where the answer key is getting $a^2/b^2$.
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 17 at 11:03
2
2
Short answer: since $sin(ax), sin(bx) xrightarrow{x to 0} 0$, you have the apply L'Hospital's rule a second time.
– Viktor Glombik
Nov 17 at 10:58
Short answer: since $sin(ax), sin(bx) xrightarrow{x to 0} 0$, you have the apply L'Hospital's rule a second time.
– Viktor Glombik
Nov 17 at 10:58
Are you asking why your answer key does not use L'Hopital rule although the limit is of the form $0/0$, or are you getting stuck while applying the rule?
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 17 at 10:59
Are you asking why your answer key does not use L'Hopital rule although the limit is of the form $0/0$, or are you getting stuck while applying the rule?
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 17 at 10:59
1
1
Note that $lim_{xto 0}frac{sin(ax)}{x}=a$
– Robert Z
Nov 17 at 11:00
Note that $lim_{xto 0}frac{sin(ax)}{x}=a$
– Robert Z
Nov 17 at 11:00
@астонвіллаолофмэллбэрг the question does use the rule but the answer doesn’t tally up with what i know and i was just wondering if there are gaps in my knowledge, like the derivative i came up with is supposed to be 0/0 but the answer key shows a^2/b^2
– Ranice Tan
Nov 17 at 11:00
@астонвіллаолофмэллбэрг the question does use the rule but the answer doesn’t tally up with what i know and i was just wondering if there are gaps in my knowledge, like the derivative i came up with is supposed to be 0/0 but the answer key shows a^2/b^2
– Ranice Tan
Nov 17 at 11:00
1
1
@RaniceTan For getting a better idea of how you and the answer key differ, reproduce the answer from the answer key here, and then show your own working and why you are getting $0/0$ where the answer key is getting $a^2/b^2$.
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 17 at 11:03
@RaniceTan For getting a better idea of how you and the answer key differ, reproduce the answer from the answer key here, and then show your own working and why you are getting $0/0$ where the answer key is getting $a^2/b^2$.
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 17 at 11:03
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
You can apply l'Hôpital once more:
$$
lim_{xto 0}frac{a}{b}
frac{acos(ax)cos(bx)-bsin(ax)sin(bx)}
{bcos(bx)cos(ax)-asin(bx)sin(ax)}
$$
and now direct substitution is possible. Not the best method, however: you can observe that
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{cos(bx)}{cos(ax)}=1
$$
and reduce to computing
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{sin(ax)}{sin(bx)}
$$
which is $a/b$.
With Taylor expansion, note that, assuming $ane0$,
$$
cos(ax)=1-frac{(ax)^2}{2!}+o(x^2)qquad ln(1+t)=t+o(t)
$$
so that
$$
ln(cos(ax))=-frac{a^2x^2}{2}+o(x^2)
$$
Hence your limit is
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{-a^2x^2/2+o(x^2)}{-b^2x^2/2+o(x^2)}=frac{a^2}{b^2}
$$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
$$lim_{xto}dfrac{sin ax}{sin bx}cdotdfrac{cos bx}{cos ax}$$
$$=dfrac ablim_{xto0}dfrac{sin ax}{ax}cdotlim_{xto0}dfrac{bx}{sin bx}lim_{xto0}dfrac{cos bx}{cos ax}=?$$
Mind you $lim_{xto0}implies xne0$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Using $cos^2y=1-sin^2y,$
$$2lim_{xto0}dfrac{ln(cos ax)}{x^2}=-a^2lim_{xto0}dfrac{ln(1-sin^2ax)}{-sin^2ax}left(lim_{xto0}dfrac{sin(ax)}{ax}right)^2=-a^2$$
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
From here by standard limits
$$ldots=lim_{xto 0} frac{a sin(ax) cos(bx)}{b sin(bx)cos(ax)}=lim_{xto 0} frac a bfrac{tan (ax)}{tan (bx)}=lim_{xto 0} frac {a^2} {b^2}frac{tan (ax)}{ax}frac{bx}{tan (bx)}=frac {a^2} {b^2}cdot 1 cdot 1 =frac {a^2} {b^2}$$
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
You can apply l'Hôpital once more:
$$
lim_{xto 0}frac{a}{b}
frac{acos(ax)cos(bx)-bsin(ax)sin(bx)}
{bcos(bx)cos(ax)-asin(bx)sin(ax)}
$$
and now direct substitution is possible. Not the best method, however: you can observe that
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{cos(bx)}{cos(ax)}=1
$$
and reduce to computing
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{sin(ax)}{sin(bx)}
$$
which is $a/b$.
With Taylor expansion, note that, assuming $ane0$,
$$
cos(ax)=1-frac{(ax)^2}{2!}+o(x^2)qquad ln(1+t)=t+o(t)
$$
so that
$$
ln(cos(ax))=-frac{a^2x^2}{2}+o(x^2)
$$
Hence your limit is
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{-a^2x^2/2+o(x^2)}{-b^2x^2/2+o(x^2)}=frac{a^2}{b^2}
$$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
You can apply l'Hôpital once more:
$$
lim_{xto 0}frac{a}{b}
frac{acos(ax)cos(bx)-bsin(ax)sin(bx)}
{bcos(bx)cos(ax)-asin(bx)sin(ax)}
$$
and now direct substitution is possible. Not the best method, however: you can observe that
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{cos(bx)}{cos(ax)}=1
$$
and reduce to computing
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{sin(ax)}{sin(bx)}
$$
which is $a/b$.
With Taylor expansion, note that, assuming $ane0$,
$$
cos(ax)=1-frac{(ax)^2}{2!}+o(x^2)qquad ln(1+t)=t+o(t)
$$
so that
$$
ln(cos(ax))=-frac{a^2x^2}{2}+o(x^2)
$$
Hence your limit is
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{-a^2x^2/2+o(x^2)}{-b^2x^2/2+o(x^2)}=frac{a^2}{b^2}
$$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
You can apply l'Hôpital once more:
$$
lim_{xto 0}frac{a}{b}
frac{acos(ax)cos(bx)-bsin(ax)sin(bx)}
{bcos(bx)cos(ax)-asin(bx)sin(ax)}
$$
and now direct substitution is possible. Not the best method, however: you can observe that
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{cos(bx)}{cos(ax)}=1
$$
and reduce to computing
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{sin(ax)}{sin(bx)}
$$
which is $a/b$.
With Taylor expansion, note that, assuming $ane0$,
$$
cos(ax)=1-frac{(ax)^2}{2!}+o(x^2)qquad ln(1+t)=t+o(t)
$$
so that
$$
ln(cos(ax))=-frac{a^2x^2}{2}+o(x^2)
$$
Hence your limit is
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{-a^2x^2/2+o(x^2)}{-b^2x^2/2+o(x^2)}=frac{a^2}{b^2}
$$
You can apply l'Hôpital once more:
$$
lim_{xto 0}frac{a}{b}
frac{acos(ax)cos(bx)-bsin(ax)sin(bx)}
{bcos(bx)cos(ax)-asin(bx)sin(ax)}
$$
and now direct substitution is possible. Not the best method, however: you can observe that
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{cos(bx)}{cos(ax)}=1
$$
and reduce to computing
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{sin(ax)}{sin(bx)}
$$
which is $a/b$.
With Taylor expansion, note that, assuming $ane0$,
$$
cos(ax)=1-frac{(ax)^2}{2!}+o(x^2)qquad ln(1+t)=t+o(t)
$$
so that
$$
ln(cos(ax))=-frac{a^2x^2}{2}+o(x^2)
$$
Hence your limit is
$$
lim_{xto0}frac{-a^2x^2/2+o(x^2)}{-b^2x^2/2+o(x^2)}=frac{a^2}{b^2}
$$
answered Nov 17 at 11:25
egreg
175k1383198
175k1383198
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
$$lim_{xto}dfrac{sin ax}{sin bx}cdotdfrac{cos bx}{cos ax}$$
$$=dfrac ablim_{xto0}dfrac{sin ax}{ax}cdotlim_{xto0}dfrac{bx}{sin bx}lim_{xto0}dfrac{cos bx}{cos ax}=?$$
Mind you $lim_{xto0}implies xne0$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
$$lim_{xto}dfrac{sin ax}{sin bx}cdotdfrac{cos bx}{cos ax}$$
$$=dfrac ablim_{xto0}dfrac{sin ax}{ax}cdotlim_{xto0}dfrac{bx}{sin bx}lim_{xto0}dfrac{cos bx}{cos ax}=?$$
Mind you $lim_{xto0}implies xne0$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
$$lim_{xto}dfrac{sin ax}{sin bx}cdotdfrac{cos bx}{cos ax}$$
$$=dfrac ablim_{xto0}dfrac{sin ax}{ax}cdotlim_{xto0}dfrac{bx}{sin bx}lim_{xto0}dfrac{cos bx}{cos ax}=?$$
Mind you $lim_{xto0}implies xne0$
$$lim_{xto}dfrac{sin ax}{sin bx}cdotdfrac{cos bx}{cos ax}$$
$$=dfrac ablim_{xto0}dfrac{sin ax}{ax}cdotlim_{xto0}dfrac{bx}{sin bx}lim_{xto0}dfrac{cos bx}{cos ax}=?$$
Mind you $lim_{xto0}implies xne0$
answered Nov 17 at 11:01
lab bhattacharjee
221k15155272
221k15155272
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Using $cos^2y=1-sin^2y,$
$$2lim_{xto0}dfrac{ln(cos ax)}{x^2}=-a^2lim_{xto0}dfrac{ln(1-sin^2ax)}{-sin^2ax}left(lim_{xto0}dfrac{sin(ax)}{ax}right)^2=-a^2$$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Using $cos^2y=1-sin^2y,$
$$2lim_{xto0}dfrac{ln(cos ax)}{x^2}=-a^2lim_{xto0}dfrac{ln(1-sin^2ax)}{-sin^2ax}left(lim_{xto0}dfrac{sin(ax)}{ax}right)^2=-a^2$$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Using $cos^2y=1-sin^2y,$
$$2lim_{xto0}dfrac{ln(cos ax)}{x^2}=-a^2lim_{xto0}dfrac{ln(1-sin^2ax)}{-sin^2ax}left(lim_{xto0}dfrac{sin(ax)}{ax}right)^2=-a^2$$
Using $cos^2y=1-sin^2y,$
$$2lim_{xto0}dfrac{ln(cos ax)}{x^2}=-a^2lim_{xto0}dfrac{ln(1-sin^2ax)}{-sin^2ax}left(lim_{xto0}dfrac{sin(ax)}{ax}right)^2=-a^2$$
edited Nov 17 at 11:42
answered Nov 17 at 11:32
lab bhattacharjee
221k15155272
221k15155272
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
From here by standard limits
$$ldots=lim_{xto 0} frac{a sin(ax) cos(bx)}{b sin(bx)cos(ax)}=lim_{xto 0} frac a bfrac{tan (ax)}{tan (bx)}=lim_{xto 0} frac {a^2} {b^2}frac{tan (ax)}{ax}frac{bx}{tan (bx)}=frac {a^2} {b^2}cdot 1 cdot 1 =frac {a^2} {b^2}$$
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
From here by standard limits
$$ldots=lim_{xto 0} frac{a sin(ax) cos(bx)}{b sin(bx)cos(ax)}=lim_{xto 0} frac a bfrac{tan (ax)}{tan (bx)}=lim_{xto 0} frac {a^2} {b^2}frac{tan (ax)}{ax}frac{bx}{tan (bx)}=frac {a^2} {b^2}cdot 1 cdot 1 =frac {a^2} {b^2}$$
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
From here by standard limits
$$ldots=lim_{xto 0} frac{a sin(ax) cos(bx)}{b sin(bx)cos(ax)}=lim_{xto 0} frac a bfrac{tan (ax)}{tan (bx)}=lim_{xto 0} frac {a^2} {b^2}frac{tan (ax)}{ax}frac{bx}{tan (bx)}=frac {a^2} {b^2}cdot 1 cdot 1 =frac {a^2} {b^2}$$
From here by standard limits
$$ldots=lim_{xto 0} frac{a sin(ax) cos(bx)}{b sin(bx)cos(ax)}=lim_{xto 0} frac a bfrac{tan (ax)}{tan (bx)}=lim_{xto 0} frac {a^2} {b^2}frac{tan (ax)}{ax}frac{bx}{tan (bx)}=frac {a^2} {b^2}cdot 1 cdot 1 =frac {a^2} {b^2}$$
answered Nov 17 at 11:58
gimusi
89.7k74495
89.7k74495
add a comment |
add a comment |
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2
Short answer: since $sin(ax), sin(bx) xrightarrow{x to 0} 0$, you have the apply L'Hospital's rule a second time.
– Viktor Glombik
Nov 17 at 10:58
Are you asking why your answer key does not use L'Hopital rule although the limit is of the form $0/0$, or are you getting stuck while applying the rule?
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 17 at 10:59
1
Note that $lim_{xto 0}frac{sin(ax)}{x}=a$
– Robert Z
Nov 17 at 11:00
@астонвіллаолофмэллбэрг the question does use the rule but the answer doesn’t tally up with what i know and i was just wondering if there are gaps in my knowledge, like the derivative i came up with is supposed to be 0/0 but the answer key shows a^2/b^2
– Ranice Tan
Nov 17 at 11:00
1
@RaniceTan For getting a better idea of how you and the answer key differ, reproduce the answer from the answer key here, and then show your own working and why you are getting $0/0$ where the answer key is getting $a^2/b^2$.
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 17 at 11:03