Why is $lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x = lim_{xto -infty}(-x)+x=lim_{xto -infty}0 = 0$ not correct?












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$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x = lim_{xto -infty}(-x)+x=lim_{xto -infty}0 = 0$



Apparently, the 2nd step is illegal here. Probably because for $x=-infty$ I'd get $(+infty-infty)$ which is not possible. I see why this wouldn't be possible, I'm not sure if it really is the cause which makes that equation illegal though.



But now, apparently, I could do this:



$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x=lim_{xto -infty}frac{[sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x][sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x]}{sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x}=lim_{xto -infty}frac{x^2+5x+3-x^2}{sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x}=lim_{xto -infty}frac{5x+3}{sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x}=lim_{xto -infty}frac{5+3/x}{sqrt{1+5/x+3/x^2}-1}=-5/2$



which gives me the correct result.



But in the 3th step I used $x^2-x^2=0$, how is that legal?
Also, in the 2nd step I implicitly used:



$-xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}=0$



Which also seems to be fine, but why?










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  • $begingroup$
    What's the issue with $x^2-x^2=0$? It's a perfectly legal statement. One shouldn't doubt oneself too much. On the other hand the issue with your first attempt is that you can't replace $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ with $-x$ as they are not equal. One can only replace one expression with another expression when both are equal.
    $endgroup$
    – Paramanand Singh
    Dec 4 '18 at 3:57












  • $begingroup$
    Technically, your first two inequalities are not wrong because all terms equal 0.
    $endgroup$
    – Dirk
    Dec 4 '18 at 5:55










  • $begingroup$
    How did you even make that huge leap of faith to go from $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ to $-x$? Even if you made $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ become $x$, although wrong, this would still be understandable, but where did the $-$ pop up from?
    $endgroup$
    – YiFan
    Dec 5 '18 at 2:55










  • $begingroup$
    @YiFan: you should note that $x$ is negative and square root is always non-negative so $-x$ is a reasonable choice.
    $endgroup$
    – Paramanand Singh
    Dec 5 '18 at 3:34
















7












$begingroup$


$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x = lim_{xto -infty}(-x)+x=lim_{xto -infty}0 = 0$



Apparently, the 2nd step is illegal here. Probably because for $x=-infty$ I'd get $(+infty-infty)$ which is not possible. I see why this wouldn't be possible, I'm not sure if it really is the cause which makes that equation illegal though.



But now, apparently, I could do this:



$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x=lim_{xto -infty}frac{[sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x][sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x]}{sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x}=lim_{xto -infty}frac{x^2+5x+3-x^2}{sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x}=lim_{xto -infty}frac{5x+3}{sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x}=lim_{xto -infty}frac{5+3/x}{sqrt{1+5/x+3/x^2}-1}=-5/2$



which gives me the correct result.



But in the 3th step I used $x^2-x^2=0$, how is that legal?
Also, in the 2nd step I implicitly used:



$-xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}=0$



Which also seems to be fine, but why?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What's the issue with $x^2-x^2=0$? It's a perfectly legal statement. One shouldn't doubt oneself too much. On the other hand the issue with your first attempt is that you can't replace $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ with $-x$ as they are not equal. One can only replace one expression with another expression when both are equal.
    $endgroup$
    – Paramanand Singh
    Dec 4 '18 at 3:57












  • $begingroup$
    Technically, your first two inequalities are not wrong because all terms equal 0.
    $endgroup$
    – Dirk
    Dec 4 '18 at 5:55










  • $begingroup$
    How did you even make that huge leap of faith to go from $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ to $-x$? Even if you made $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ become $x$, although wrong, this would still be understandable, but where did the $-$ pop up from?
    $endgroup$
    – YiFan
    Dec 5 '18 at 2:55










  • $begingroup$
    @YiFan: you should note that $x$ is negative and square root is always non-negative so $-x$ is a reasonable choice.
    $endgroup$
    – Paramanand Singh
    Dec 5 '18 at 3:34














7












7








7





$begingroup$


$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x = lim_{xto -infty}(-x)+x=lim_{xto -infty}0 = 0$



Apparently, the 2nd step is illegal here. Probably because for $x=-infty$ I'd get $(+infty-infty)$ which is not possible. I see why this wouldn't be possible, I'm not sure if it really is the cause which makes that equation illegal though.



But now, apparently, I could do this:



$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x=lim_{xto -infty}frac{[sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x][sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x]}{sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x}=lim_{xto -infty}frac{x^2+5x+3-x^2}{sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x}=lim_{xto -infty}frac{5x+3}{sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x}=lim_{xto -infty}frac{5+3/x}{sqrt{1+5/x+3/x^2}-1}=-5/2$



which gives me the correct result.



But in the 3th step I used $x^2-x^2=0$, how is that legal?
Also, in the 2nd step I implicitly used:



$-xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}=0$



Which also seems to be fine, but why?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x = lim_{xto -infty}(-x)+x=lim_{xto -infty}0 = 0$



Apparently, the 2nd step is illegal here. Probably because for $x=-infty$ I'd get $(+infty-infty)$ which is not possible. I see why this wouldn't be possible, I'm not sure if it really is the cause which makes that equation illegal though.



But now, apparently, I could do this:



$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x=lim_{xto -infty}frac{[sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x][sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x]}{sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x}=lim_{xto -infty}frac{x^2+5x+3-x^2}{sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x}=lim_{xto -infty}frac{5x+3}{sqrt{x^2+5x+3}-x}=lim_{xto -infty}frac{5+3/x}{sqrt{1+5/x+3/x^2}-1}=-5/2$



which gives me the correct result.



But in the 3th step I used $x^2-x^2=0$, how is that legal?
Also, in the 2nd step I implicitly used:



$-xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}=0$



Which also seems to be fine, but why?







calculus limits






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edited Dec 4 '18 at 8:17









Jeel Shah

5,261115598




5,261115598










asked Dec 3 '18 at 14:28









xotixxotix

263311




263311












  • $begingroup$
    What's the issue with $x^2-x^2=0$? It's a perfectly legal statement. One shouldn't doubt oneself too much. On the other hand the issue with your first attempt is that you can't replace $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ with $-x$ as they are not equal. One can only replace one expression with another expression when both are equal.
    $endgroup$
    – Paramanand Singh
    Dec 4 '18 at 3:57












  • $begingroup$
    Technically, your first two inequalities are not wrong because all terms equal 0.
    $endgroup$
    – Dirk
    Dec 4 '18 at 5:55










  • $begingroup$
    How did you even make that huge leap of faith to go from $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ to $-x$? Even if you made $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ become $x$, although wrong, this would still be understandable, but where did the $-$ pop up from?
    $endgroup$
    – YiFan
    Dec 5 '18 at 2:55










  • $begingroup$
    @YiFan: you should note that $x$ is negative and square root is always non-negative so $-x$ is a reasonable choice.
    $endgroup$
    – Paramanand Singh
    Dec 5 '18 at 3:34


















  • $begingroup$
    What's the issue with $x^2-x^2=0$? It's a perfectly legal statement. One shouldn't doubt oneself too much. On the other hand the issue with your first attempt is that you can't replace $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ with $-x$ as they are not equal. One can only replace one expression with another expression when both are equal.
    $endgroup$
    – Paramanand Singh
    Dec 4 '18 at 3:57












  • $begingroup$
    Technically, your first two inequalities are not wrong because all terms equal 0.
    $endgroup$
    – Dirk
    Dec 4 '18 at 5:55










  • $begingroup$
    How did you even make that huge leap of faith to go from $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ to $-x$? Even if you made $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ become $x$, although wrong, this would still be understandable, but where did the $-$ pop up from?
    $endgroup$
    – YiFan
    Dec 5 '18 at 2:55










  • $begingroup$
    @YiFan: you should note that $x$ is negative and square root is always non-negative so $-x$ is a reasonable choice.
    $endgroup$
    – Paramanand Singh
    Dec 5 '18 at 3:34
















$begingroup$
What's the issue with $x^2-x^2=0$? It's a perfectly legal statement. One shouldn't doubt oneself too much. On the other hand the issue with your first attempt is that you can't replace $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ with $-x$ as they are not equal. One can only replace one expression with another expression when both are equal.
$endgroup$
– Paramanand Singh
Dec 4 '18 at 3:57






$begingroup$
What's the issue with $x^2-x^2=0$? It's a perfectly legal statement. One shouldn't doubt oneself too much. On the other hand the issue with your first attempt is that you can't replace $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ with $-x$ as they are not equal. One can only replace one expression with another expression when both are equal.
$endgroup$
– Paramanand Singh
Dec 4 '18 at 3:57














$begingroup$
Technically, your first two inequalities are not wrong because all terms equal 0.
$endgroup$
– Dirk
Dec 4 '18 at 5:55




$begingroup$
Technically, your first two inequalities are not wrong because all terms equal 0.
$endgroup$
– Dirk
Dec 4 '18 at 5:55












$begingroup$
How did you even make that huge leap of faith to go from $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ to $-x$? Even if you made $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ become $x$, although wrong, this would still be understandable, but where did the $-$ pop up from?
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Dec 5 '18 at 2:55




$begingroup$
How did you even make that huge leap of faith to go from $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ to $-x$? Even if you made $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}$ become $x$, although wrong, this would still be understandable, but where did the $-$ pop up from?
$endgroup$
– YiFan
Dec 5 '18 at 2:55












$begingroup$
@YiFan: you should note that $x$ is negative and square root is always non-negative so $-x$ is a reasonable choice.
$endgroup$
– Paramanand Singh
Dec 5 '18 at 3:34




$begingroup$
@YiFan: you should note that $x$ is negative and square root is always non-negative so $-x$ is a reasonable choice.
$endgroup$
– Paramanand Singh
Dec 5 '18 at 3:34










7 Answers
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To avoid confusion with sign, in these cases I suggest to take $y=-xto infty$ then



$$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x =lim_{yto infty}sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-y $$



from here we can clearly see that the expression is an indeterminate form $infty-infty$ then we can proceed by



$$sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-y=left(sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-yright)cdot frac{sqrt{y^2-5y+3}+y}{sqrt{y^2-5y+3}+y}$$



Note that your first cancellation is not correct because you have considered $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=-x$ which is not true whereas in the second case we have cancelled out $x^2-x^2$ which is a correct step.






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  • 2




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    I mean that's a nice hint but I can't see how that answers y question. There isn't much difference between $lim_{xto -infty} x-x$ vs. $lim_{yto infty}-y+y$
    $endgroup$
    – xotix
    Dec 3 '18 at 14:35












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    @xotix I've added a specific observation about your wrong step.
    $endgroup$
    – gimusi
    Dec 3 '18 at 14:43



















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$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x = lim_{xto -infty}(-x)+x$



Apparently, the 2nd step is illegal here.




In this step, you dropped $5x+3$ to go from $sqrt{x^2}$ to $-x$, but what makes you think you can just leave out the terms $5x+3$...? Surely you agree that $x^2+5x+3 ne x^2$.




But in the 3th step I used $x^2-x^2=0$, how is that legal?




How could that not be legal? The difference of two equal real numbers is $0$, of course!



The same goes for:




Also, in the 2nd step I implicitly used:
$-xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}=0$






Addition after comment: the idea of dominating terms (in a polynomial) is fine, but you cannot choose to apply the limit "locally" and leave the other terms unchanged.



To clarify, this is fine:
$$lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2}=+infty$$
but that's not what we have here; we have:
$$lim_{x to -infty}left(sqrt{x^2+5x+3}color{blue}{+x}right)$$
and we cannot take the limit of the terms separately
$$lim_{x to -infty}left(sqrt{x^2+5x+3}color{blue}{+x}right)color{red}{ne}lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+lim_{x to -infty} x$$
because both limits need to exist in order for this step to be valid.






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  • $begingroup$
    The idea behind $lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2}=lim_{xto -infty} |x| = lim_{xto -infty} -x$ was, that $x^2$ dominantes $5x+3$. I also thought if that argument is wrong here, if $lim_{x to -infty} x-x=0$ is legal and everything of the same "type"; then I'm okay again. Then I have to think about why the domination argument doesn't work as I thought it does here.
    $endgroup$
    – xotix
    Dec 3 '18 at 14:39










  • $begingroup$
    @xotix I added a part; the problem lies in taking the limit(s) separately/"locally".
    $endgroup$
    – StackTD
    Dec 3 '18 at 14:45





















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The first step you took simply wasn’t correct.



$$lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x color{red}{neq lim_{x to infty}-x+x}$$



You shouldn’t split a limit if the individual limits don’t exist or are undefined. Going for $infty-infty$ is certainly incorrect as it’s an indeterminate form, so you should always avoid it.



As for your question, you’re cancelling out $x^2$ and $-x^2$. That’s simple algebra and has nothing to do with whether $x$ is approaching an infinite value or not. It always applies for all additive inverses.






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    2












    $begingroup$

    You may set $x = -frac{1}{t}$ and consider the limit for $stackrel{trightarrow 0+}{longrightarrow}$:
    $$begin{eqnarray*} sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x
    & stackrel{x = -frac{1}{t}}{=} & frac{sqrt{1-5t +3t^2} - 1}{t} \
    & stackrel{trightarrow 0+}{longrightarrow} & f'(0) = -frac{5}{2}mbox{ for } f(t) = sqrt{1-5t +3t^2}
    end{eqnarray*}$$






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      $begingroup$

      The first step is illegal, not the second. This is because $sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3} notequiv -x$.



      Also addressing your comment:




      The idea behind $lim_{x to -infty} sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3} = dots = lim_{x to -infty} −x$ was, that $x^2$ dominantes $5x+3$. I also thought if that argument is wrong here, if $lim_{x to -infty} x − x = 0$ is legal and everything of the same "type"; then I'm okay again. Then I have to think about why the domination argument doesn't work as I thought it does here.




      You are right in thinking that $x^2$ dominates $5x+3$, so that $color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}} sim color{red}{-x}$ for large negative $x$. Indeed there is no problem when computing their ratio:



      $$lim_{x to -infty} frac{color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}}{color{red}{-x}} = 1$$



      However, because you are computing the difference between $color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}$ and $color{red}{-x}$, such an approximation is not fine enough. You need more terms of the series expansion:



      $$
      begin{align*}
      color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}
      &= -x sqrt{1 + frac{5}{x} + frac{3}{x^2}} \
      &sim -x left(1 + frac{1}{2} cdot frac{5}{x} + Oleft(frac{1}{x^2}right) right) \
      &= color{red}{-x} - frac{5}{2} + Oleft(frac{1}{x}right)
      end{align*}
      $$



      Then may you conclude that the required limit is $-5/2$.



      By analogy, an approximation such as $color{blue}{x + 1} sim color{red}{x}$ is perfectly fine for computing the ratio limit $lim_{x to -infty} (color{blue}{x + 1}) / (color{red}{x})$. But if you are computing the difference limit, then you may not discard the $1$ in $color{blue}{x + 1}$.






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        Possibly the biggest problem in your first paragraph is that $sqrt{text{whatever}}$ is non-negative when we are working over the reals. Can you exhibit any choice of $x$ in the real numbers giving a negative value of $sqrt{x^2 + 5 x + 3}$?






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          0












          $begingroup$

          I will flesh out much of what would be considered a series of valid steps you may take in order to get something similar to the first step performed in the initial limit calculation. I will note that the second step that was taken is valid because we perform all of the algebra in the limit expression first, then we take a limit of what results.



          The following line of reasoning shows that whenever you have $sqrt{x^2+beta x+alpha}$ as a term (added or substracted, not multiplied or divided) in a limit, it may be replaced freely by $|x+frac{beta}{2}|$ inside the limit (of course slight adjustments must be made for it to be shown in general).



          Note that for every $b>frac{5}{2}$,



          $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



          To see why this is the case, here is a series of inequalities. First pick a $b>frac{5}{2}$. Then pick $x$ so that $xlefrac{3-b^2}{2b-5}$.



          Then
          $$(2b-5)xle 3-b^2,$$ $$2bx+b^2le 5x+3,$$
          $$x^2+2bx+b^2le x^2+5x+3,$$
          $$sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}lesqrt{x^2+5x+3},$$
          $$sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+xlesqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x,$$
          $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



          The intuition for this comes largely from working backward. So thus the claim is justified.
          So now we can say that



          $$lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x,$$
          $$lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}|x+b|+x=lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}-x-b+x=lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}-b=-frac{5}{2}lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



          Now since $3<frac{25}{4}$, we have that.



          $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xle lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+frac{25}{4}}+x=lim_{xto-infty}|x+frac{5}{2}|+x=lim_{xto-infty}-x-frac{5}{2}+x=lim_{xto-infty}-frac{5}{2}=-frac{5}{2}.$$



          So $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x=-frac{5}{2}.$$






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            7 Answers
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            7 Answers
            7






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            1












            $begingroup$

            To avoid confusion with sign, in these cases I suggest to take $y=-xto infty$ then



            $$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x =lim_{yto infty}sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-y $$



            from here we can clearly see that the expression is an indeterminate form $infty-infty$ then we can proceed by



            $$sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-y=left(sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-yright)cdot frac{sqrt{y^2-5y+3}+y}{sqrt{y^2-5y+3}+y}$$



            Note that your first cancellation is not correct because you have considered $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=-x$ which is not true whereas in the second case we have cancelled out $x^2-x^2$ which is a correct step.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$









            • 2




              $begingroup$
              I mean that's a nice hint but I can't see how that answers y question. There isn't much difference between $lim_{xto -infty} x-x$ vs. $lim_{yto infty}-y+y$
              $endgroup$
              – xotix
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:35












            • $begingroup$
              @xotix I've added a specific observation about your wrong step.
              $endgroup$
              – gimusi
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:43
















            1












            $begingroup$

            To avoid confusion with sign, in these cases I suggest to take $y=-xto infty$ then



            $$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x =lim_{yto infty}sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-y $$



            from here we can clearly see that the expression is an indeterminate form $infty-infty$ then we can proceed by



            $$sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-y=left(sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-yright)cdot frac{sqrt{y^2-5y+3}+y}{sqrt{y^2-5y+3}+y}$$



            Note that your first cancellation is not correct because you have considered $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=-x$ which is not true whereas in the second case we have cancelled out $x^2-x^2$ which is a correct step.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$









            • 2




              $begingroup$
              I mean that's a nice hint but I can't see how that answers y question. There isn't much difference between $lim_{xto -infty} x-x$ vs. $lim_{yto infty}-y+y$
              $endgroup$
              – xotix
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:35












            • $begingroup$
              @xotix I've added a specific observation about your wrong step.
              $endgroup$
              – gimusi
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:43














            1












            1








            1





            $begingroup$

            To avoid confusion with sign, in these cases I suggest to take $y=-xto infty$ then



            $$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x =lim_{yto infty}sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-y $$



            from here we can clearly see that the expression is an indeterminate form $infty-infty$ then we can proceed by



            $$sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-y=left(sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-yright)cdot frac{sqrt{y^2-5y+3}+y}{sqrt{y^2-5y+3}+y}$$



            Note that your first cancellation is not correct because you have considered $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=-x$ which is not true whereas in the second case we have cancelled out $x^2-x^2$ which is a correct step.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            To avoid confusion with sign, in these cases I suggest to take $y=-xto infty$ then



            $$lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x =lim_{yto infty}sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-y $$



            from here we can clearly see that the expression is an indeterminate form $infty-infty$ then we can proceed by



            $$sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-y=left(sqrt{y^2-5y+3}-yright)cdot frac{sqrt{y^2-5y+3}+y}{sqrt{y^2-5y+3}+y}$$



            Note that your first cancellation is not correct because you have considered $sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=-x$ which is not true whereas in the second case we have cancelled out $x^2-x^2$ which is a correct step.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Dec 3 '18 at 14:42

























            answered Dec 3 '18 at 14:31









            gimusigimusi

            92.8k84494




            92.8k84494








            • 2




              $begingroup$
              I mean that's a nice hint but I can't see how that answers y question. There isn't much difference between $lim_{xto -infty} x-x$ vs. $lim_{yto infty}-y+y$
              $endgroup$
              – xotix
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:35












            • $begingroup$
              @xotix I've added a specific observation about your wrong step.
              $endgroup$
              – gimusi
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:43














            • 2




              $begingroup$
              I mean that's a nice hint but I can't see how that answers y question. There isn't much difference between $lim_{xto -infty} x-x$ vs. $lim_{yto infty}-y+y$
              $endgroup$
              – xotix
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:35












            • $begingroup$
              @xotix I've added a specific observation about your wrong step.
              $endgroup$
              – gimusi
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:43








            2




            2




            $begingroup$
            I mean that's a nice hint but I can't see how that answers y question. There isn't much difference between $lim_{xto -infty} x-x$ vs. $lim_{yto infty}-y+y$
            $endgroup$
            – xotix
            Dec 3 '18 at 14:35






            $begingroup$
            I mean that's a nice hint but I can't see how that answers y question. There isn't much difference between $lim_{xto -infty} x-x$ vs. $lim_{yto infty}-y+y$
            $endgroup$
            – xotix
            Dec 3 '18 at 14:35














            $begingroup$
            @xotix I've added a specific observation about your wrong step.
            $endgroup$
            – gimusi
            Dec 3 '18 at 14:43




            $begingroup$
            @xotix I've added a specific observation about your wrong step.
            $endgroup$
            – gimusi
            Dec 3 '18 at 14:43











            10












            $begingroup$


            $lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x = lim_{xto -infty}(-x)+x$



            Apparently, the 2nd step is illegal here.




            In this step, you dropped $5x+3$ to go from $sqrt{x^2}$ to $-x$, but what makes you think you can just leave out the terms $5x+3$...? Surely you agree that $x^2+5x+3 ne x^2$.




            But in the 3th step I used $x^2-x^2=0$, how is that legal?




            How could that not be legal? The difference of two equal real numbers is $0$, of course!



            The same goes for:




            Also, in the 2nd step I implicitly used:
            $-xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}=0$






            Addition after comment: the idea of dominating terms (in a polynomial) is fine, but you cannot choose to apply the limit "locally" and leave the other terms unchanged.



            To clarify, this is fine:
            $$lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2}=+infty$$
            but that's not what we have here; we have:
            $$lim_{x to -infty}left(sqrt{x^2+5x+3}color{blue}{+x}right)$$
            and we cannot take the limit of the terms separately
            $$lim_{x to -infty}left(sqrt{x^2+5x+3}color{blue}{+x}right)color{red}{ne}lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+lim_{x to -infty} x$$
            because both limits need to exist in order for this step to be valid.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              The idea behind $lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2}=lim_{xto -infty} |x| = lim_{xto -infty} -x$ was, that $x^2$ dominantes $5x+3$. I also thought if that argument is wrong here, if $lim_{x to -infty} x-x=0$ is legal and everything of the same "type"; then I'm okay again. Then I have to think about why the domination argument doesn't work as I thought it does here.
              $endgroup$
              – xotix
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:39










            • $begingroup$
              @xotix I added a part; the problem lies in taking the limit(s) separately/"locally".
              $endgroup$
              – StackTD
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:45


















            10












            $begingroup$


            $lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x = lim_{xto -infty}(-x)+x$



            Apparently, the 2nd step is illegal here.




            In this step, you dropped $5x+3$ to go from $sqrt{x^2}$ to $-x$, but what makes you think you can just leave out the terms $5x+3$...? Surely you agree that $x^2+5x+3 ne x^2$.




            But in the 3th step I used $x^2-x^2=0$, how is that legal?




            How could that not be legal? The difference of two equal real numbers is $0$, of course!



            The same goes for:




            Also, in the 2nd step I implicitly used:
            $-xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}=0$






            Addition after comment: the idea of dominating terms (in a polynomial) is fine, but you cannot choose to apply the limit "locally" and leave the other terms unchanged.



            To clarify, this is fine:
            $$lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2}=+infty$$
            but that's not what we have here; we have:
            $$lim_{x to -infty}left(sqrt{x^2+5x+3}color{blue}{+x}right)$$
            and we cannot take the limit of the terms separately
            $$lim_{x to -infty}left(sqrt{x^2+5x+3}color{blue}{+x}right)color{red}{ne}lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+lim_{x to -infty} x$$
            because both limits need to exist in order for this step to be valid.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              The idea behind $lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2}=lim_{xto -infty} |x| = lim_{xto -infty} -x$ was, that $x^2$ dominantes $5x+3$. I also thought if that argument is wrong here, if $lim_{x to -infty} x-x=0$ is legal and everything of the same "type"; then I'm okay again. Then I have to think about why the domination argument doesn't work as I thought it does here.
              $endgroup$
              – xotix
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:39










            • $begingroup$
              @xotix I added a part; the problem lies in taking the limit(s) separately/"locally".
              $endgroup$
              – StackTD
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:45
















            10












            10








            10





            $begingroup$


            $lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x = lim_{xto -infty}(-x)+x$



            Apparently, the 2nd step is illegal here.




            In this step, you dropped $5x+3$ to go from $sqrt{x^2}$ to $-x$, but what makes you think you can just leave out the terms $5x+3$...? Surely you agree that $x^2+5x+3 ne x^2$.




            But in the 3th step I used $x^2-x^2=0$, how is that legal?




            How could that not be legal? The difference of two equal real numbers is $0$, of course!



            The same goes for:




            Also, in the 2nd step I implicitly used:
            $-xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}=0$






            Addition after comment: the idea of dominating terms (in a polynomial) is fine, but you cannot choose to apply the limit "locally" and leave the other terms unchanged.



            To clarify, this is fine:
            $$lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2}=+infty$$
            but that's not what we have here; we have:
            $$lim_{x to -infty}left(sqrt{x^2+5x+3}color{blue}{+x}right)$$
            and we cannot take the limit of the terms separately
            $$lim_{x to -infty}left(sqrt{x^2+5x+3}color{blue}{+x}right)color{red}{ne}lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+lim_{x to -infty} x$$
            because both limits need to exist in order for this step to be valid.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$




            $lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x = lim_{xto -infty}(-x)+x$



            Apparently, the 2nd step is illegal here.




            In this step, you dropped $5x+3$ to go from $sqrt{x^2}$ to $-x$, but what makes you think you can just leave out the terms $5x+3$...? Surely you agree that $x^2+5x+3 ne x^2$.




            But in the 3th step I used $x^2-x^2=0$, how is that legal?




            How could that not be legal? The difference of two equal real numbers is $0$, of course!



            The same goes for:




            Also, in the 2nd step I implicitly used:
            $-xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xsqrt{x^2+5x+3}=0$






            Addition after comment: the idea of dominating terms (in a polynomial) is fine, but you cannot choose to apply the limit "locally" and leave the other terms unchanged.



            To clarify, this is fine:
            $$lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2}=+infty$$
            but that's not what we have here; we have:
            $$lim_{x to -infty}left(sqrt{x^2+5x+3}color{blue}{+x}right)$$
            and we cannot take the limit of the terms separately
            $$lim_{x to -infty}left(sqrt{x^2+5x+3}color{blue}{+x}right)color{red}{ne}lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+lim_{x to -infty} x$$
            because both limits need to exist in order for this step to be valid.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Dec 4 '18 at 8:56

























            answered Dec 3 '18 at 14:34









            StackTDStackTD

            22.6k2049




            22.6k2049












            • $begingroup$
              The idea behind $lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2}=lim_{xto -infty} |x| = lim_{xto -infty} -x$ was, that $x^2$ dominantes $5x+3$. I also thought if that argument is wrong here, if $lim_{x to -infty} x-x=0$ is legal and everything of the same "type"; then I'm okay again. Then I have to think about why the domination argument doesn't work as I thought it does here.
              $endgroup$
              – xotix
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:39










            • $begingroup$
              @xotix I added a part; the problem lies in taking the limit(s) separately/"locally".
              $endgroup$
              – StackTD
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:45




















            • $begingroup$
              The idea behind $lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2}=lim_{xto -infty} |x| = lim_{xto -infty} -x$ was, that $x^2$ dominantes $5x+3$. I also thought if that argument is wrong here, if $lim_{x to -infty} x-x=0$ is legal and everything of the same "type"; then I'm okay again. Then I have to think about why the domination argument doesn't work as I thought it does here.
              $endgroup$
              – xotix
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:39










            • $begingroup$
              @xotix I added a part; the problem lies in taking the limit(s) separately/"locally".
              $endgroup$
              – StackTD
              Dec 3 '18 at 14:45


















            $begingroup$
            The idea behind $lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2}=lim_{xto -infty} |x| = lim_{xto -infty} -x$ was, that $x^2$ dominantes $5x+3$. I also thought if that argument is wrong here, if $lim_{x to -infty} x-x=0$ is legal and everything of the same "type"; then I'm okay again. Then I have to think about why the domination argument doesn't work as I thought it does here.
            $endgroup$
            – xotix
            Dec 3 '18 at 14:39




            $begingroup$
            The idea behind $lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}=lim_{xto -infty}sqrt{x^2}=lim_{xto -infty} |x| = lim_{xto -infty} -x$ was, that $x^2$ dominantes $5x+3$. I also thought if that argument is wrong here, if $lim_{x to -infty} x-x=0$ is legal and everything of the same "type"; then I'm okay again. Then I have to think about why the domination argument doesn't work as I thought it does here.
            $endgroup$
            – xotix
            Dec 3 '18 at 14:39












            $begingroup$
            @xotix I added a part; the problem lies in taking the limit(s) separately/"locally".
            $endgroup$
            – StackTD
            Dec 3 '18 at 14:45






            $begingroup$
            @xotix I added a part; the problem lies in taking the limit(s) separately/"locally".
            $endgroup$
            – StackTD
            Dec 3 '18 at 14:45













            4












            $begingroup$

            The first step you took simply wasn’t correct.



            $$lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x color{red}{neq lim_{x to infty}-x+x}$$



            You shouldn’t split a limit if the individual limits don’t exist or are undefined. Going for $infty-infty$ is certainly incorrect as it’s an indeterminate form, so you should always avoid it.



            As for your question, you’re cancelling out $x^2$ and $-x^2$. That’s simple algebra and has nothing to do with whether $x$ is approaching an infinite value or not. It always applies for all additive inverses.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$


















              4












              $begingroup$

              The first step you took simply wasn’t correct.



              $$lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x color{red}{neq lim_{x to infty}-x+x}$$



              You shouldn’t split a limit if the individual limits don’t exist or are undefined. Going for $infty-infty$ is certainly incorrect as it’s an indeterminate form, so you should always avoid it.



              As for your question, you’re cancelling out $x^2$ and $-x^2$. That’s simple algebra and has nothing to do with whether $x$ is approaching an infinite value or not. It always applies for all additive inverses.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$
















                4












                4








                4





                $begingroup$

                The first step you took simply wasn’t correct.



                $$lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x color{red}{neq lim_{x to infty}-x+x}$$



                You shouldn’t split a limit if the individual limits don’t exist or are undefined. Going for $infty-infty$ is certainly incorrect as it’s an indeterminate form, so you should always avoid it.



                As for your question, you’re cancelling out $x^2$ and $-x^2$. That’s simple algebra and has nothing to do with whether $x$ is approaching an infinite value or not. It always applies for all additive inverses.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$



                The first step you took simply wasn’t correct.



                $$lim_{x to -infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x color{red}{neq lim_{x to infty}-x+x}$$



                You shouldn’t split a limit if the individual limits don’t exist or are undefined. Going for $infty-infty$ is certainly incorrect as it’s an indeterminate form, so you should always avoid it.



                As for your question, you’re cancelling out $x^2$ and $-x^2$. That’s simple algebra and has nothing to do with whether $x$ is approaching an infinite value or not. It always applies for all additive inverses.







                share|cite|improve this answer














                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer








                edited Dec 3 '18 at 14:52

























                answered Dec 3 '18 at 14:43









                KM101KM101

                5,9481524




                5,9481524























                    2












                    $begingroup$

                    You may set $x = -frac{1}{t}$ and consider the limit for $stackrel{trightarrow 0+}{longrightarrow}$:
                    $$begin{eqnarray*} sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x
                    & stackrel{x = -frac{1}{t}}{=} & frac{sqrt{1-5t +3t^2} - 1}{t} \
                    & stackrel{trightarrow 0+}{longrightarrow} & f'(0) = -frac{5}{2}mbox{ for } f(t) = sqrt{1-5t +3t^2}
                    end{eqnarray*}$$






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$


















                      2












                      $begingroup$

                      You may set $x = -frac{1}{t}$ and consider the limit for $stackrel{trightarrow 0+}{longrightarrow}$:
                      $$begin{eqnarray*} sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x
                      & stackrel{x = -frac{1}{t}}{=} & frac{sqrt{1-5t +3t^2} - 1}{t} \
                      & stackrel{trightarrow 0+}{longrightarrow} & f'(0) = -frac{5}{2}mbox{ for } f(t) = sqrt{1-5t +3t^2}
                      end{eqnarray*}$$






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$
















                        2












                        2








                        2





                        $begingroup$

                        You may set $x = -frac{1}{t}$ and consider the limit for $stackrel{trightarrow 0+}{longrightarrow}$:
                        $$begin{eqnarray*} sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x
                        & stackrel{x = -frac{1}{t}}{=} & frac{sqrt{1-5t +3t^2} - 1}{t} \
                        & stackrel{trightarrow 0+}{longrightarrow} & f'(0) = -frac{5}{2}mbox{ for } f(t) = sqrt{1-5t +3t^2}
                        end{eqnarray*}$$






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$



                        You may set $x = -frac{1}{t}$ and consider the limit for $stackrel{trightarrow 0+}{longrightarrow}$:
                        $$begin{eqnarray*} sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x
                        & stackrel{x = -frac{1}{t}}{=} & frac{sqrt{1-5t +3t^2} - 1}{t} \
                        & stackrel{trightarrow 0+}{longrightarrow} & f'(0) = -frac{5}{2}mbox{ for } f(t) = sqrt{1-5t +3t^2}
                        end{eqnarray*}$$







                        share|cite|improve this answer












                        share|cite|improve this answer



                        share|cite|improve this answer










                        answered Dec 3 '18 at 14:50









                        trancelocationtrancelocation

                        10.6k1722




                        10.6k1722























                            2












                            $begingroup$

                            The first step is illegal, not the second. This is because $sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3} notequiv -x$.



                            Also addressing your comment:




                            The idea behind $lim_{x to -infty} sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3} = dots = lim_{x to -infty} −x$ was, that $x^2$ dominantes $5x+3$. I also thought if that argument is wrong here, if $lim_{x to -infty} x − x = 0$ is legal and everything of the same "type"; then I'm okay again. Then I have to think about why the domination argument doesn't work as I thought it does here.




                            You are right in thinking that $x^2$ dominates $5x+3$, so that $color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}} sim color{red}{-x}$ for large negative $x$. Indeed there is no problem when computing their ratio:



                            $$lim_{x to -infty} frac{color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}}{color{red}{-x}} = 1$$



                            However, because you are computing the difference between $color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}$ and $color{red}{-x}$, such an approximation is not fine enough. You need more terms of the series expansion:



                            $$
                            begin{align*}
                            color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}
                            &= -x sqrt{1 + frac{5}{x} + frac{3}{x^2}} \
                            &sim -x left(1 + frac{1}{2} cdot frac{5}{x} + Oleft(frac{1}{x^2}right) right) \
                            &= color{red}{-x} - frac{5}{2} + Oleft(frac{1}{x}right)
                            end{align*}
                            $$



                            Then may you conclude that the required limit is $-5/2$.



                            By analogy, an approximation such as $color{blue}{x + 1} sim color{red}{x}$ is perfectly fine for computing the ratio limit $lim_{x to -infty} (color{blue}{x + 1}) / (color{red}{x})$. But if you are computing the difference limit, then you may not discard the $1$ in $color{blue}{x + 1}$.






                            share|cite|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$


















                              2












                              $begingroup$

                              The first step is illegal, not the second. This is because $sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3} notequiv -x$.



                              Also addressing your comment:




                              The idea behind $lim_{x to -infty} sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3} = dots = lim_{x to -infty} −x$ was, that $x^2$ dominantes $5x+3$. I also thought if that argument is wrong here, if $lim_{x to -infty} x − x = 0$ is legal and everything of the same "type"; then I'm okay again. Then I have to think about why the domination argument doesn't work as I thought it does here.




                              You are right in thinking that $x^2$ dominates $5x+3$, so that $color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}} sim color{red}{-x}$ for large negative $x$. Indeed there is no problem when computing their ratio:



                              $$lim_{x to -infty} frac{color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}}{color{red}{-x}} = 1$$



                              However, because you are computing the difference between $color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}$ and $color{red}{-x}$, such an approximation is not fine enough. You need more terms of the series expansion:



                              $$
                              begin{align*}
                              color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}
                              &= -x sqrt{1 + frac{5}{x} + frac{3}{x^2}} \
                              &sim -x left(1 + frac{1}{2} cdot frac{5}{x} + Oleft(frac{1}{x^2}right) right) \
                              &= color{red}{-x} - frac{5}{2} + Oleft(frac{1}{x}right)
                              end{align*}
                              $$



                              Then may you conclude that the required limit is $-5/2$.



                              By analogy, an approximation such as $color{blue}{x + 1} sim color{red}{x}$ is perfectly fine for computing the ratio limit $lim_{x to -infty} (color{blue}{x + 1}) / (color{red}{x})$. But if you are computing the difference limit, then you may not discard the $1$ in $color{blue}{x + 1}$.






                              share|cite|improve this answer











                              $endgroup$
















                                2












                                2








                                2





                                $begingroup$

                                The first step is illegal, not the second. This is because $sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3} notequiv -x$.



                                Also addressing your comment:




                                The idea behind $lim_{x to -infty} sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3} = dots = lim_{x to -infty} −x$ was, that $x^2$ dominantes $5x+3$. I also thought if that argument is wrong here, if $lim_{x to -infty} x − x = 0$ is legal and everything of the same "type"; then I'm okay again. Then I have to think about why the domination argument doesn't work as I thought it does here.




                                You are right in thinking that $x^2$ dominates $5x+3$, so that $color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}} sim color{red}{-x}$ for large negative $x$. Indeed there is no problem when computing their ratio:



                                $$lim_{x to -infty} frac{color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}}{color{red}{-x}} = 1$$



                                However, because you are computing the difference between $color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}$ and $color{red}{-x}$, such an approximation is not fine enough. You need more terms of the series expansion:



                                $$
                                begin{align*}
                                color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}
                                &= -x sqrt{1 + frac{5}{x} + frac{3}{x^2}} \
                                &sim -x left(1 + frac{1}{2} cdot frac{5}{x} + Oleft(frac{1}{x^2}right) right) \
                                &= color{red}{-x} - frac{5}{2} + Oleft(frac{1}{x}right)
                                end{align*}
                                $$



                                Then may you conclude that the required limit is $-5/2$.



                                By analogy, an approximation such as $color{blue}{x + 1} sim color{red}{x}$ is perfectly fine for computing the ratio limit $lim_{x to -infty} (color{blue}{x + 1}) / (color{red}{x})$. But if you are computing the difference limit, then you may not discard the $1$ in $color{blue}{x + 1}$.






                                share|cite|improve this answer











                                $endgroup$



                                The first step is illegal, not the second. This is because $sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3} notequiv -x$.



                                Also addressing your comment:




                                The idea behind $lim_{x to -infty} sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3} = dots = lim_{x to -infty} −x$ was, that $x^2$ dominantes $5x+3$. I also thought if that argument is wrong here, if $lim_{x to -infty} x − x = 0$ is legal and everything of the same "type"; then I'm okay again. Then I have to think about why the domination argument doesn't work as I thought it does here.




                                You are right in thinking that $x^2$ dominates $5x+3$, so that $color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}} sim color{red}{-x}$ for large negative $x$. Indeed there is no problem when computing their ratio:



                                $$lim_{x to -infty} frac{color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}}{color{red}{-x}} = 1$$



                                However, because you are computing the difference between $color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}$ and $color{red}{-x}$, such an approximation is not fine enough. You need more terms of the series expansion:



                                $$
                                begin{align*}
                                color{blue}{sqrt{x^2 + 5x + 3}}
                                &= -x sqrt{1 + frac{5}{x} + frac{3}{x^2}} \
                                &sim -x left(1 + frac{1}{2} cdot frac{5}{x} + Oleft(frac{1}{x^2}right) right) \
                                &= color{red}{-x} - frac{5}{2} + Oleft(frac{1}{x}right)
                                end{align*}
                                $$



                                Then may you conclude that the required limit is $-5/2$.



                                By analogy, an approximation such as $color{blue}{x + 1} sim color{red}{x}$ is perfectly fine for computing the ratio limit $lim_{x to -infty} (color{blue}{x + 1}) / (color{red}{x})$. But if you are computing the difference limit, then you may not discard the $1$ in $color{blue}{x + 1}$.







                                share|cite|improve this answer














                                share|cite|improve this answer



                                share|cite|improve this answer








                                edited Dec 4 '18 at 6:43

























                                answered Dec 4 '18 at 6:24









                                lastresortlastresort

                                1,305414




                                1,305414























                                    1












                                    $begingroup$

                                    Possibly the biggest problem in your first paragraph is that $sqrt{text{whatever}}$ is non-negative when we are working over the reals. Can you exhibit any choice of $x$ in the real numbers giving a negative value of $sqrt{x^2 + 5 x + 3}$?






                                    share|cite|improve this answer









                                    $endgroup$


















                                      1












                                      $begingroup$

                                      Possibly the biggest problem in your first paragraph is that $sqrt{text{whatever}}$ is non-negative when we are working over the reals. Can you exhibit any choice of $x$ in the real numbers giving a negative value of $sqrt{x^2 + 5 x + 3}$?






                                      share|cite|improve this answer









                                      $endgroup$
















                                        1












                                        1








                                        1





                                        $begingroup$

                                        Possibly the biggest problem in your first paragraph is that $sqrt{text{whatever}}$ is non-negative when we are working over the reals. Can you exhibit any choice of $x$ in the real numbers giving a negative value of $sqrt{x^2 + 5 x + 3}$?






                                        share|cite|improve this answer









                                        $endgroup$



                                        Possibly the biggest problem in your first paragraph is that $sqrt{text{whatever}}$ is non-negative when we are working over the reals. Can you exhibit any choice of $x$ in the real numbers giving a negative value of $sqrt{x^2 + 5 x + 3}$?







                                        share|cite|improve this answer












                                        share|cite|improve this answer



                                        share|cite|improve this answer










                                        answered Dec 3 '18 at 20:33









                                        Eric TowersEric Towers

                                        32.5k22369




                                        32.5k22369























                                            0












                                            $begingroup$

                                            I will flesh out much of what would be considered a series of valid steps you may take in order to get something similar to the first step performed in the initial limit calculation. I will note that the second step that was taken is valid because we perform all of the algebra in the limit expression first, then we take a limit of what results.



                                            The following line of reasoning shows that whenever you have $sqrt{x^2+beta x+alpha}$ as a term (added or substracted, not multiplied or divided) in a limit, it may be replaced freely by $|x+frac{beta}{2}|$ inside the limit (of course slight adjustments must be made for it to be shown in general).



                                            Note that for every $b>frac{5}{2}$,



                                            $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



                                            To see why this is the case, here is a series of inequalities. First pick a $b>frac{5}{2}$. Then pick $x$ so that $xlefrac{3-b^2}{2b-5}$.



                                            Then
                                            $$(2b-5)xle 3-b^2,$$ $$2bx+b^2le 5x+3,$$
                                            $$x^2+2bx+b^2le x^2+5x+3,$$
                                            $$sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}lesqrt{x^2+5x+3},$$
                                            $$sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+xlesqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x,$$
                                            $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



                                            The intuition for this comes largely from working backward. So thus the claim is justified.
                                            So now we can say that



                                            $$lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x,$$
                                            $$lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}|x+b|+x=lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}-x-b+x=lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}-b=-frac{5}{2}lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



                                            Now since $3<frac{25}{4}$, we have that.



                                            $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xle lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+frac{25}{4}}+x=lim_{xto-infty}|x+frac{5}{2}|+x=lim_{xto-infty}-x-frac{5}{2}+x=lim_{xto-infty}-frac{5}{2}=-frac{5}{2}.$$



                                            So $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x=-frac{5}{2}.$$






                                            share|cite|improve this answer











                                            $endgroup$


















                                              0












                                              $begingroup$

                                              I will flesh out much of what would be considered a series of valid steps you may take in order to get something similar to the first step performed in the initial limit calculation. I will note that the second step that was taken is valid because we perform all of the algebra in the limit expression first, then we take a limit of what results.



                                              The following line of reasoning shows that whenever you have $sqrt{x^2+beta x+alpha}$ as a term (added or substracted, not multiplied or divided) in a limit, it may be replaced freely by $|x+frac{beta}{2}|$ inside the limit (of course slight adjustments must be made for it to be shown in general).



                                              Note that for every $b>frac{5}{2}$,



                                              $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



                                              To see why this is the case, here is a series of inequalities. First pick a $b>frac{5}{2}$. Then pick $x$ so that $xlefrac{3-b^2}{2b-5}$.



                                              Then
                                              $$(2b-5)xle 3-b^2,$$ $$2bx+b^2le 5x+3,$$
                                              $$x^2+2bx+b^2le x^2+5x+3,$$
                                              $$sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}lesqrt{x^2+5x+3},$$
                                              $$sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+xlesqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x,$$
                                              $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



                                              The intuition for this comes largely from working backward. So thus the claim is justified.
                                              So now we can say that



                                              $$lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x,$$
                                              $$lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}|x+b|+x=lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}-x-b+x=lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}-b=-frac{5}{2}lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



                                              Now since $3<frac{25}{4}$, we have that.



                                              $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xle lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+frac{25}{4}}+x=lim_{xto-infty}|x+frac{5}{2}|+x=lim_{xto-infty}-x-frac{5}{2}+x=lim_{xto-infty}-frac{5}{2}=-frac{5}{2}.$$



                                              So $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x=-frac{5}{2}.$$






                                              share|cite|improve this answer











                                              $endgroup$
















                                                0












                                                0








                                                0





                                                $begingroup$

                                                I will flesh out much of what would be considered a series of valid steps you may take in order to get something similar to the first step performed in the initial limit calculation. I will note that the second step that was taken is valid because we perform all of the algebra in the limit expression first, then we take a limit of what results.



                                                The following line of reasoning shows that whenever you have $sqrt{x^2+beta x+alpha}$ as a term (added or substracted, not multiplied or divided) in a limit, it may be replaced freely by $|x+frac{beta}{2}|$ inside the limit (of course slight adjustments must be made for it to be shown in general).



                                                Note that for every $b>frac{5}{2}$,



                                                $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



                                                To see why this is the case, here is a series of inequalities. First pick a $b>frac{5}{2}$. Then pick $x$ so that $xlefrac{3-b^2}{2b-5}$.



                                                Then
                                                $$(2b-5)xle 3-b^2,$$ $$2bx+b^2le 5x+3,$$
                                                $$x^2+2bx+b^2le x^2+5x+3,$$
                                                $$sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}lesqrt{x^2+5x+3},$$
                                                $$sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+xlesqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x,$$
                                                $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



                                                The intuition for this comes largely from working backward. So thus the claim is justified.
                                                So now we can say that



                                                $$lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x,$$
                                                $$lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}|x+b|+x=lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}-x-b+x=lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}-b=-frac{5}{2}lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



                                                Now since $3<frac{25}{4}$, we have that.



                                                $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xle lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+frac{25}{4}}+x=lim_{xto-infty}|x+frac{5}{2}|+x=lim_{xto-infty}-x-frac{5}{2}+x=lim_{xto-infty}-frac{5}{2}=-frac{5}{2}.$$



                                                So $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x=-frac{5}{2}.$$






                                                share|cite|improve this answer











                                                $endgroup$



                                                I will flesh out much of what would be considered a series of valid steps you may take in order to get something similar to the first step performed in the initial limit calculation. I will note that the second step that was taken is valid because we perform all of the algebra in the limit expression first, then we take a limit of what results.



                                                The following line of reasoning shows that whenever you have $sqrt{x^2+beta x+alpha}$ as a term (added or substracted, not multiplied or divided) in a limit, it may be replaced freely by $|x+frac{beta}{2}|$ inside the limit (of course slight adjustments must be made for it to be shown in general).



                                                Note that for every $b>frac{5}{2}$,



                                                $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



                                                To see why this is the case, here is a series of inequalities. First pick a $b>frac{5}{2}$. Then pick $x$ so that $xlefrac{3-b^2}{2b-5}$.



                                                Then
                                                $$(2b-5)xle 3-b^2,$$ $$2bx+b^2le 5x+3,$$
                                                $$x^2+2bx+b^2le x^2+5x+3,$$
                                                $$sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}lesqrt{x^2+5x+3},$$
                                                $$sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+xlesqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x,$$
                                                $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



                                                The intuition for this comes largely from working backward. So thus the claim is justified.
                                                So now we can say that



                                                $$lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+2bx+b^2}+x lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x,$$
                                                $$lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}|x+b|+x=lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}-x-b+x=lim_{bto frac{5}{2}^-}-b=-frac{5}{2}lelim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x.$$



                                                Now since $3<frac{25}{4}$, we have that.



                                                $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+xle lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+frac{25}{4}}+x=lim_{xto-infty}|x+frac{5}{2}|+x=lim_{xto-infty}-x-frac{5}{2}+x=lim_{xto-infty}-frac{5}{2}=-frac{5}{2}.$$



                                                So $$lim_{xto-infty}sqrt{x^2+5x+3}+x=-frac{5}{2}.$$







                                                share|cite|improve this answer














                                                share|cite|improve this answer



                                                share|cite|improve this answer








                                                edited Dec 5 '18 at 2:48

























                                                answered Dec 4 '18 at 6:22









                                                John BJohn B

                                                1766




                                                1766






























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