Can a controlled ghast be a leader of a pack of ghouls?












9












$begingroup$


I'm creating a necromancer wizard player character and searching for the most optimal amount of undead to control. I searched for the lore of the monsters, and found that Ghasts tend to be leaders in packs of ghouls. But I couldn't find how a Ghast does that, or how many can it can maintain in order.



So that makes me wonder. Can a controlled ghast be the boss of an uncontrolled pack of ghouls? And if he can, how many could it command?



That could significantly boost the amount of undead my necromancer could control by indirect means:



The idea I have is to create ghouls using my 6th level spell slot, and maintain the superior slots for a ghast, who will introduce the newcomers to the pack, so when the next day comes, they already are in a group controlled be the more powerful undead, who will in turn be controlled by me.










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New contributor




Roberto Aguirre is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to the site! Seems to me like you have a great question here. Just a quick question: Was the ghast in command of the ghouls prior to being controlled? Or do you plan to gain command of ghouls with the contolled ghast after the fact?
    $endgroup$
    – David Coffron
    Mar 25 at 15:19












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    Mar 25 at 22:32
















9












$begingroup$


I'm creating a necromancer wizard player character and searching for the most optimal amount of undead to control. I searched for the lore of the monsters, and found that Ghasts tend to be leaders in packs of ghouls. But I couldn't find how a Ghast does that, or how many can it can maintain in order.



So that makes me wonder. Can a controlled ghast be the boss of an uncontrolled pack of ghouls? And if he can, how many could it command?



That could significantly boost the amount of undead my necromancer could control by indirect means:



The idea I have is to create ghouls using my 6th level spell slot, and maintain the superior slots for a ghast, who will introduce the newcomers to the pack, so when the next day comes, they already are in a group controlled be the more powerful undead, who will in turn be controlled by me.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Roberto Aguirre is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to the site! Seems to me like you have a great question here. Just a quick question: Was the ghast in command of the ghouls prior to being controlled? Or do you plan to gain command of ghouls with the contolled ghast after the fact?
    $endgroup$
    – David Coffron
    Mar 25 at 15:19












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    Mar 25 at 22:32














9












9








9





$begingroup$


I'm creating a necromancer wizard player character and searching for the most optimal amount of undead to control. I searched for the lore of the monsters, and found that Ghasts tend to be leaders in packs of ghouls. But I couldn't find how a Ghast does that, or how many can it can maintain in order.



So that makes me wonder. Can a controlled ghast be the boss of an uncontrolled pack of ghouls? And if he can, how many could it command?



That could significantly boost the amount of undead my necromancer could control by indirect means:



The idea I have is to create ghouls using my 6th level spell slot, and maintain the superior slots for a ghast, who will introduce the newcomers to the pack, so when the next day comes, they already are in a group controlled be the more powerful undead, who will in turn be controlled by me.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Roberto Aguirre is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I'm creating a necromancer wizard player character and searching for the most optimal amount of undead to control. I searched for the lore of the monsters, and found that Ghasts tend to be leaders in packs of ghouls. But I couldn't find how a Ghast does that, or how many can it can maintain in order.



So that makes me wonder. Can a controlled ghast be the boss of an uncontrolled pack of ghouls? And if he can, how many could it command?



That could significantly boost the amount of undead my necromancer could control by indirect means:



The idea I have is to create ghouls using my 6th level spell slot, and maintain the superior slots for a ghast, who will introduce the newcomers to the pack, so when the next day comes, they already are in a group controlled be the more powerful undead, who will in turn be controlled by me.







dnd-5e wizard necromancy






share|improve this question









New contributor




Roberto Aguirre is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Roberto Aguirre is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Mar 25 at 15:38









Sdjz

13.7k466109




13.7k466109






New contributor




Roberto Aguirre is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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asked Mar 25 at 15:15









Roberto AguirreRoberto Aguirre

463




463




New contributor




Roberto Aguirre is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Roberto Aguirre is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Roberto Aguirre is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to the site! Seems to me like you have a great question here. Just a quick question: Was the ghast in command of the ghouls prior to being controlled? Or do you plan to gain command of ghouls with the contolled ghast after the fact?
    $endgroup$
    – David Coffron
    Mar 25 at 15:19












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    Mar 25 at 22:32














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to the site! Seems to me like you have a great question here. Just a quick question: Was the ghast in command of the ghouls prior to being controlled? Or do you plan to gain command of ghouls with the contolled ghast after the fact?
    $endgroup$
    – David Coffron
    Mar 25 at 15:19












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    Mar 25 at 22:32








2




2




$begingroup$
Welcome to the site! Seems to me like you have a great question here. Just a quick question: Was the ghast in command of the ghouls prior to being controlled? Or do you plan to gain command of ghouls with the contolled ghast after the fact?
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
Mar 25 at 15:19






$begingroup$
Welcome to the site! Seems to me like you have a great question here. Just a quick question: Was the ghast in command of the ghouls prior to being controlled? Or do you plan to gain command of ghouls with the contolled ghast after the fact?
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
Mar 25 at 15:19














$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Mar 25 at 22:32




$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already, and check out the help center for more guidance.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
Mar 25 at 22:32










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















15












$begingroup$

You are talking about NPC interactions



When it comes to a ghast's command of ghouls, it isn't some magical effect. It is simply the ghast's greater power and "cunning"...




inspir[ing] a pack of ghouls to follow its commands.




This is similar to how a powerful bugbear might inspire a collection of lowly goblins. Since it is simply a matter of character interaction, it will be ultimately up to the GM how this works.



Ghouls are not particularly intelligent creatures, so if they are already in league with a ghast they may become tag-alongs as long as you keep them well-fed. Whether or not your ghast can command a new group of ghouls will largely depend on what exactly motivates the ghouls in a particular situation.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thanks, I also think the same. So the DM will finally decide if my army of ghouls would betray their leaders, and by extencion, me
    $endgroup$
    – Roberto Aguirre
    Mar 25 at 15:35



















11












$begingroup$

This sort of thing isn't specified.



The "ghasts as leaders of ghoul packs" thing is a matter of monster social groups. That's meant to be handled by the DM. Monster descriptions in the Monster Manual and other sources are only intended to provide suggestions, guidelines, and inspiration. The expectation is that all of the pack members will be acting as monsters, and therefore that explicit rules about how they interact aren't necessary, or even particularly useful.



You might get it to work, but it probably won't get you the kind of control you actually need.



Control Undead says that the ghast in question will follow your commands to the best of its ability. That's great! That means that you can pretty easily get it to lead the pack for you, to the best of its ability. The issue here, though, is that the ghouls aren't controlled. They're just a pack. They're going to act like ghouls in a pack, and by default, they're chaotic evil. So, you can get the ghast to make the ghoul pack do ghoul pack things - like, say, go off and terrorize a village or something. They're int 7, so you might be able to intimidate them into doing the same yourself, if you had a good enough intimidate score. (They speak Common, just like everybody else). You're not going to get them to do things like guard treasure indefinitely, though, or not go scuttling off to eat someone if they see a chance at some easy meat. They're still chaotic evil. The control their packleader has over them is... not likely to be amazing.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    0












    $begingroup$

    Ghasts have no power over ghouls



    A ghast has no power to control other ghouls or any other lesser undead. So controlling it gives you nothing really. Unless you manage to hide your control from the rest of the pack, you will only control it.



    Now, you may be able to coerce the rest of the pack into obedience through fear of your magical power. Such control is limited at best and likely to end poorly the first time you go to sleep, so be very careful with it.



    You may bribe them into working for/with you, spying or performing tasks that does not endanger them. Again, such "control" will only last as long as you can pay them with something they want.



    Other creatures may create a "chain of charm" but not ghasts and ghouls.






    share|improve this answer











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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      15












      $begingroup$

      You are talking about NPC interactions



      When it comes to a ghast's command of ghouls, it isn't some magical effect. It is simply the ghast's greater power and "cunning"...




      inspir[ing] a pack of ghouls to follow its commands.




      This is similar to how a powerful bugbear might inspire a collection of lowly goblins. Since it is simply a matter of character interaction, it will be ultimately up to the GM how this works.



      Ghouls are not particularly intelligent creatures, so if they are already in league with a ghast they may become tag-alongs as long as you keep them well-fed. Whether or not your ghast can command a new group of ghouls will largely depend on what exactly motivates the ghouls in a particular situation.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        Thanks, I also think the same. So the DM will finally decide if my army of ghouls would betray their leaders, and by extencion, me
        $endgroup$
        – Roberto Aguirre
        Mar 25 at 15:35
















      15












      $begingroup$

      You are talking about NPC interactions



      When it comes to a ghast's command of ghouls, it isn't some magical effect. It is simply the ghast's greater power and "cunning"...




      inspir[ing] a pack of ghouls to follow its commands.




      This is similar to how a powerful bugbear might inspire a collection of lowly goblins. Since it is simply a matter of character interaction, it will be ultimately up to the GM how this works.



      Ghouls are not particularly intelligent creatures, so if they are already in league with a ghast they may become tag-alongs as long as you keep them well-fed. Whether or not your ghast can command a new group of ghouls will largely depend on what exactly motivates the ghouls in a particular situation.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        Thanks, I also think the same. So the DM will finally decide if my army of ghouls would betray their leaders, and by extencion, me
        $endgroup$
        – Roberto Aguirre
        Mar 25 at 15:35














      15












      15








      15





      $begingroup$

      You are talking about NPC interactions



      When it comes to a ghast's command of ghouls, it isn't some magical effect. It is simply the ghast's greater power and "cunning"...




      inspir[ing] a pack of ghouls to follow its commands.




      This is similar to how a powerful bugbear might inspire a collection of lowly goblins. Since it is simply a matter of character interaction, it will be ultimately up to the GM how this works.



      Ghouls are not particularly intelligent creatures, so if they are already in league with a ghast they may become tag-alongs as long as you keep them well-fed. Whether or not your ghast can command a new group of ghouls will largely depend on what exactly motivates the ghouls in a particular situation.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      You are talking about NPC interactions



      When it comes to a ghast's command of ghouls, it isn't some magical effect. It is simply the ghast's greater power and "cunning"...




      inspir[ing] a pack of ghouls to follow its commands.




      This is similar to how a powerful bugbear might inspire a collection of lowly goblins. Since it is simply a matter of character interaction, it will be ultimately up to the GM how this works.



      Ghouls are not particularly intelligent creatures, so if they are already in league with a ghast they may become tag-alongs as long as you keep them well-fed. Whether or not your ghast can command a new group of ghouls will largely depend on what exactly motivates the ghouls in a particular situation.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered Mar 25 at 15:26









      David CoffronDavid Coffron

      38.7k3134275




      38.7k3134275












      • $begingroup$
        Thanks, I also think the same. So the DM will finally decide if my army of ghouls would betray their leaders, and by extencion, me
        $endgroup$
        – Roberto Aguirre
        Mar 25 at 15:35


















      • $begingroup$
        Thanks, I also think the same. So the DM will finally decide if my army of ghouls would betray their leaders, and by extencion, me
        $endgroup$
        – Roberto Aguirre
        Mar 25 at 15:35
















      $begingroup$
      Thanks, I also think the same. So the DM will finally decide if my army of ghouls would betray their leaders, and by extencion, me
      $endgroup$
      – Roberto Aguirre
      Mar 25 at 15:35




      $begingroup$
      Thanks, I also think the same. So the DM will finally decide if my army of ghouls would betray their leaders, and by extencion, me
      $endgroup$
      – Roberto Aguirre
      Mar 25 at 15:35













      11












      $begingroup$

      This sort of thing isn't specified.



      The "ghasts as leaders of ghoul packs" thing is a matter of monster social groups. That's meant to be handled by the DM. Monster descriptions in the Monster Manual and other sources are only intended to provide suggestions, guidelines, and inspiration. The expectation is that all of the pack members will be acting as monsters, and therefore that explicit rules about how they interact aren't necessary, or even particularly useful.



      You might get it to work, but it probably won't get you the kind of control you actually need.



      Control Undead says that the ghast in question will follow your commands to the best of its ability. That's great! That means that you can pretty easily get it to lead the pack for you, to the best of its ability. The issue here, though, is that the ghouls aren't controlled. They're just a pack. They're going to act like ghouls in a pack, and by default, they're chaotic evil. So, you can get the ghast to make the ghoul pack do ghoul pack things - like, say, go off and terrorize a village or something. They're int 7, so you might be able to intimidate them into doing the same yourself, if you had a good enough intimidate score. (They speak Common, just like everybody else). You're not going to get them to do things like guard treasure indefinitely, though, or not go scuttling off to eat someone if they see a chance at some easy meat. They're still chaotic evil. The control their packleader has over them is... not likely to be amazing.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$


















        11












        $begingroup$

        This sort of thing isn't specified.



        The "ghasts as leaders of ghoul packs" thing is a matter of monster social groups. That's meant to be handled by the DM. Monster descriptions in the Monster Manual and other sources are only intended to provide suggestions, guidelines, and inspiration. The expectation is that all of the pack members will be acting as monsters, and therefore that explicit rules about how they interact aren't necessary, or even particularly useful.



        You might get it to work, but it probably won't get you the kind of control you actually need.



        Control Undead says that the ghast in question will follow your commands to the best of its ability. That's great! That means that you can pretty easily get it to lead the pack for you, to the best of its ability. The issue here, though, is that the ghouls aren't controlled. They're just a pack. They're going to act like ghouls in a pack, and by default, they're chaotic evil. So, you can get the ghast to make the ghoul pack do ghoul pack things - like, say, go off and terrorize a village or something. They're int 7, so you might be able to intimidate them into doing the same yourself, if you had a good enough intimidate score. (They speak Common, just like everybody else). You're not going to get them to do things like guard treasure indefinitely, though, or not go scuttling off to eat someone if they see a chance at some easy meat. They're still chaotic evil. The control their packleader has over them is... not likely to be amazing.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$
















          11












          11








          11





          $begingroup$

          This sort of thing isn't specified.



          The "ghasts as leaders of ghoul packs" thing is a matter of monster social groups. That's meant to be handled by the DM. Monster descriptions in the Monster Manual and other sources are only intended to provide suggestions, guidelines, and inspiration. The expectation is that all of the pack members will be acting as monsters, and therefore that explicit rules about how they interact aren't necessary, or even particularly useful.



          You might get it to work, but it probably won't get you the kind of control you actually need.



          Control Undead says that the ghast in question will follow your commands to the best of its ability. That's great! That means that you can pretty easily get it to lead the pack for you, to the best of its ability. The issue here, though, is that the ghouls aren't controlled. They're just a pack. They're going to act like ghouls in a pack, and by default, they're chaotic evil. So, you can get the ghast to make the ghoul pack do ghoul pack things - like, say, go off and terrorize a village or something. They're int 7, so you might be able to intimidate them into doing the same yourself, if you had a good enough intimidate score. (They speak Common, just like everybody else). You're not going to get them to do things like guard treasure indefinitely, though, or not go scuttling off to eat someone if they see a chance at some easy meat. They're still chaotic evil. The control their packleader has over them is... not likely to be amazing.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          This sort of thing isn't specified.



          The "ghasts as leaders of ghoul packs" thing is a matter of monster social groups. That's meant to be handled by the DM. Monster descriptions in the Monster Manual and other sources are only intended to provide suggestions, guidelines, and inspiration. The expectation is that all of the pack members will be acting as monsters, and therefore that explicit rules about how they interact aren't necessary, or even particularly useful.



          You might get it to work, but it probably won't get you the kind of control you actually need.



          Control Undead says that the ghast in question will follow your commands to the best of its ability. That's great! That means that you can pretty easily get it to lead the pack for you, to the best of its ability. The issue here, though, is that the ghouls aren't controlled. They're just a pack. They're going to act like ghouls in a pack, and by default, they're chaotic evil. So, you can get the ghast to make the ghoul pack do ghoul pack things - like, say, go off and terrorize a village or something. They're int 7, so you might be able to intimidate them into doing the same yourself, if you had a good enough intimidate score. (They speak Common, just like everybody else). You're not going to get them to do things like guard treasure indefinitely, though, or not go scuttling off to eat someone if they see a chance at some easy meat. They're still chaotic evil. The control their packleader has over them is... not likely to be amazing.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Mar 25 at 16:25

























          answered Mar 25 at 15:31









          Ben BardenBen Barden

          11.7k12866




          11.7k12866























              0












              $begingroup$

              Ghasts have no power over ghouls



              A ghast has no power to control other ghouls or any other lesser undead. So controlling it gives you nothing really. Unless you manage to hide your control from the rest of the pack, you will only control it.



              Now, you may be able to coerce the rest of the pack into obedience through fear of your magical power. Such control is limited at best and likely to end poorly the first time you go to sleep, so be very careful with it.



              You may bribe them into working for/with you, spying or performing tasks that does not endanger them. Again, such "control" will only last as long as you can pay them with something they want.



              Other creatures may create a "chain of charm" but not ghasts and ghouls.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                0












                $begingroup$

                Ghasts have no power over ghouls



                A ghast has no power to control other ghouls or any other lesser undead. So controlling it gives you nothing really. Unless you manage to hide your control from the rest of the pack, you will only control it.



                Now, you may be able to coerce the rest of the pack into obedience through fear of your magical power. Such control is limited at best and likely to end poorly the first time you go to sleep, so be very careful with it.



                You may bribe them into working for/with you, spying or performing tasks that does not endanger them. Again, such "control" will only last as long as you can pay them with something they want.



                Other creatures may create a "chain of charm" but not ghasts and ghouls.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  Ghasts have no power over ghouls



                  A ghast has no power to control other ghouls or any other lesser undead. So controlling it gives you nothing really. Unless you manage to hide your control from the rest of the pack, you will only control it.



                  Now, you may be able to coerce the rest of the pack into obedience through fear of your magical power. Such control is limited at best and likely to end poorly the first time you go to sleep, so be very careful with it.



                  You may bribe them into working for/with you, spying or performing tasks that does not endanger them. Again, such "control" will only last as long as you can pay them with something they want.



                  Other creatures may create a "chain of charm" but not ghasts and ghouls.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Ghasts have no power over ghouls



                  A ghast has no power to control other ghouls or any other lesser undead. So controlling it gives you nothing really. Unless you manage to hide your control from the rest of the pack, you will only control it.



                  Now, you may be able to coerce the rest of the pack into obedience through fear of your magical power. Such control is limited at best and likely to end poorly the first time you go to sleep, so be very careful with it.



                  You may bribe them into working for/with you, spying or performing tasks that does not endanger them. Again, such "control" will only last as long as you can pay them with something they want.



                  Other creatures may create a "chain of charm" but not ghasts and ghouls.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited Mar 25 at 16:14









                  Slagmoth

                  18.3k15397




                  18.3k15397










                  answered Mar 25 at 15:32









                  JP ChapleauJP Chapleau

                  4,5351734




                  4,5351734






















                      Roberto Aguirre is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










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