The closure of a connected set in a topological space is connected
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This problem is from Rudin. I am trying to Prove that the closure of a connected set is always connected. Here is my proof.
Let $E$ be a connected set in a space $X$. Suppose to the contrary that the closure of $E$, $overline{E}$ is not connected. Then there exist two sets $A$ and $B$ such that $overline{E}=A cup B$ and $overline{A}cap B= emptyset=Acapoverline{B}$. $E$ being connected, we know that $Acup B neq E$ so there exist $p in overline{E} backslash E$. We also know that $overline{E}=Ecup E'$ (where $E'$ is the set of the limit points of $E$) so $p$ must be a limit point of $E$ (but not in $E$). Taking the set of all such $p$ we obtain the set $E''={p|pin E', pnot in E}$. We find then that $E'' subset A$ or $E'' subset B$. Say $E'' subset A$. Then $E subset B$ and we see that $Acapoverline{B}neq emptyset$ which is a contradiction. So $overline{E}$ must be connected.
Can anyone help me critique this proof? I feel uneasy about it but I don't know exactly what is wrong with it.
Thank-you
general-topology connectedness
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
This problem is from Rudin. I am trying to Prove that the closure of a connected set is always connected. Here is my proof.
Let $E$ be a connected set in a space $X$. Suppose to the contrary that the closure of $E$, $overline{E}$ is not connected. Then there exist two sets $A$ and $B$ such that $overline{E}=A cup B$ and $overline{A}cap B= emptyset=Acapoverline{B}$. $E$ being connected, we know that $Acup B neq E$ so there exist $p in overline{E} backslash E$. We also know that $overline{E}=Ecup E'$ (where $E'$ is the set of the limit points of $E$) so $p$ must be a limit point of $E$ (but not in $E$). Taking the set of all such $p$ we obtain the set $E''={p|pin E', pnot in E}$. We find then that $E'' subset A$ or $E'' subset B$. Say $E'' subset A$. Then $E subset B$ and we see that $Acapoverline{B}neq emptyset$ which is a contradiction. So $overline{E}$ must be connected.
Can anyone help me critique this proof? I feel uneasy about it but I don't know exactly what is wrong with it.
Thank-you
general-topology connectedness
$endgroup$
1
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Why does $E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$?
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– David Peterson
Feb 16 '14 at 3:05
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My reasoning was that since $overline{E}=Acup B$ and also that $overline{E}=Ecup E'$, and since $E'' subset E'$, then $E''$ must be a subset of one of the sets that separate $overline{E}$ (because certainly $E'' cup E = overline{E}$
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– illysial
Feb 16 '14 at 3:12
4
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The problem (I believe) with your proof is that you never use that $E$ is connected. You say it to imply $E$ does not contain its limit points, but that isn't using the property of connectedness. Take for example $E$ as the disjoint union of two open balls, forgetting your statement of the assumption that $E$ is connected. Then everything you write up until "$E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$" is valid, but breaks at this point.
$endgroup$
– David Peterson
Feb 16 '14 at 3:28
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I also felt awkward about not using that condition more...but I see your point I think.
$endgroup$
– illysial
Feb 16 '14 at 3:44
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This problem is from Rudin. I am trying to Prove that the closure of a connected set is always connected. Here is my proof.
Let $E$ be a connected set in a space $X$. Suppose to the contrary that the closure of $E$, $overline{E}$ is not connected. Then there exist two sets $A$ and $B$ such that $overline{E}=A cup B$ and $overline{A}cap B= emptyset=Acapoverline{B}$. $E$ being connected, we know that $Acup B neq E$ so there exist $p in overline{E} backslash E$. We also know that $overline{E}=Ecup E'$ (where $E'$ is the set of the limit points of $E$) so $p$ must be a limit point of $E$ (but not in $E$). Taking the set of all such $p$ we obtain the set $E''={p|pin E', pnot in E}$. We find then that $E'' subset A$ or $E'' subset B$. Say $E'' subset A$. Then $E subset B$ and we see that $Acapoverline{B}neq emptyset$ which is a contradiction. So $overline{E}$ must be connected.
Can anyone help me critique this proof? I feel uneasy about it but I don't know exactly what is wrong with it.
Thank-you
general-topology connectedness
$endgroup$
This problem is from Rudin. I am trying to Prove that the closure of a connected set is always connected. Here is my proof.
Let $E$ be a connected set in a space $X$. Suppose to the contrary that the closure of $E$, $overline{E}$ is not connected. Then there exist two sets $A$ and $B$ such that $overline{E}=A cup B$ and $overline{A}cap B= emptyset=Acapoverline{B}$. $E$ being connected, we know that $Acup B neq E$ so there exist $p in overline{E} backslash E$. We also know that $overline{E}=Ecup E'$ (where $E'$ is the set of the limit points of $E$) so $p$ must be a limit point of $E$ (but not in $E$). Taking the set of all such $p$ we obtain the set $E''={p|pin E', pnot in E}$. We find then that $E'' subset A$ or $E'' subset B$. Say $E'' subset A$. Then $E subset B$ and we see that $Acapoverline{B}neq emptyset$ which is a contradiction. So $overline{E}$ must be connected.
Can anyone help me critique this proof? I feel uneasy about it but I don't know exactly what is wrong with it.
Thank-you
general-topology connectedness
general-topology connectedness
edited Nov 28 '16 at 0:57
Jack
27.6k1782203
27.6k1782203
asked Feb 16 '14 at 2:57
illysialillysial
1,6782817
1,6782817
1
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Why does $E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$?
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– David Peterson
Feb 16 '14 at 3:05
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My reasoning was that since $overline{E}=Acup B$ and also that $overline{E}=Ecup E'$, and since $E'' subset E'$, then $E''$ must be a subset of one of the sets that separate $overline{E}$ (because certainly $E'' cup E = overline{E}$
$endgroup$
– illysial
Feb 16 '14 at 3:12
4
$begingroup$
The problem (I believe) with your proof is that you never use that $E$ is connected. You say it to imply $E$ does not contain its limit points, but that isn't using the property of connectedness. Take for example $E$ as the disjoint union of two open balls, forgetting your statement of the assumption that $E$ is connected. Then everything you write up until "$E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$" is valid, but breaks at this point.
$endgroup$
– David Peterson
Feb 16 '14 at 3:28
$begingroup$
I also felt awkward about not using that condition more...but I see your point I think.
$endgroup$
– illysial
Feb 16 '14 at 3:44
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Why does $E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$?
$endgroup$
– David Peterson
Feb 16 '14 at 3:05
$begingroup$
My reasoning was that since $overline{E}=Acup B$ and also that $overline{E}=Ecup E'$, and since $E'' subset E'$, then $E''$ must be a subset of one of the sets that separate $overline{E}$ (because certainly $E'' cup E = overline{E}$
$endgroup$
– illysial
Feb 16 '14 at 3:12
4
$begingroup$
The problem (I believe) with your proof is that you never use that $E$ is connected. You say it to imply $E$ does not contain its limit points, but that isn't using the property of connectedness. Take for example $E$ as the disjoint union of two open balls, forgetting your statement of the assumption that $E$ is connected. Then everything you write up until "$E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$" is valid, but breaks at this point.
$endgroup$
– David Peterson
Feb 16 '14 at 3:28
$begingroup$
I also felt awkward about not using that condition more...but I see your point I think.
$endgroup$
– illysial
Feb 16 '14 at 3:44
1
1
$begingroup$
Why does $E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$?
$endgroup$
– David Peterson
Feb 16 '14 at 3:05
$begingroup$
Why does $E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$?
$endgroup$
– David Peterson
Feb 16 '14 at 3:05
$begingroup$
My reasoning was that since $overline{E}=Acup B$ and also that $overline{E}=Ecup E'$, and since $E'' subset E'$, then $E''$ must be a subset of one of the sets that separate $overline{E}$ (because certainly $E'' cup E = overline{E}$
$endgroup$
– illysial
Feb 16 '14 at 3:12
$begingroup$
My reasoning was that since $overline{E}=Acup B$ and also that $overline{E}=Ecup E'$, and since $E'' subset E'$, then $E''$ must be a subset of one of the sets that separate $overline{E}$ (because certainly $E'' cup E = overline{E}$
$endgroup$
– illysial
Feb 16 '14 at 3:12
4
4
$begingroup$
The problem (I believe) with your proof is that you never use that $E$ is connected. You say it to imply $E$ does not contain its limit points, but that isn't using the property of connectedness. Take for example $E$ as the disjoint union of two open balls, forgetting your statement of the assumption that $E$ is connected. Then everything you write up until "$E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$" is valid, but breaks at this point.
$endgroup$
– David Peterson
Feb 16 '14 at 3:28
$begingroup$
The problem (I believe) with your proof is that you never use that $E$ is connected. You say it to imply $E$ does not contain its limit points, but that isn't using the property of connectedness. Take for example $E$ as the disjoint union of two open balls, forgetting your statement of the assumption that $E$ is connected. Then everything you write up until "$E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$" is valid, but breaks at this point.
$endgroup$
– David Peterson
Feb 16 '14 at 3:28
$begingroup$
I also felt awkward about not using that condition more...but I see your point I think.
$endgroup$
– illysial
Feb 16 '14 at 3:44
$begingroup$
I also felt awkward about not using that condition more...but I see your point I think.
$endgroup$
– illysial
Feb 16 '14 at 3:44
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
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Suppose that $E$ is connected. Let $A,Bsubseteq X$ be separated sets (that is, $overline{A}cap B=Acapoverline{B}=varnothing$) such that $overline{E}=Acup B$, and suppose that $Aneqvarnothing$. Let us prove that $B=varnothing$.
Let $ain A$. Since $Acap overline{B}=varnothing$, there exists a neighborhood $U$ of $a$ such that $Ucap B=varnothing$. Since $ainoverline{E}$, then there exists some point $xin Ecap U$, so $xnotin B$, hence $xin Ecap A$. Therefore, $Ecap Aneqvarnothing$.
Notice that $E=(Acap E)cup (Bcap E)$, and $Acap E$ and $Bcap E$ are obviously separated. As $Acap Eneqvarnothing$, from the previous paragraph, and $E$ is connected, then $Bcap E=varnothing$.
(See PS below for an alternative end to the proof without the argument by contradiction)
Finally, suppose, in order to obtain a contradiction, that $Bneqvarnothing$, and take $bin B$. By the same arguments as those used in the second paragraph above, switching $A$ and $B$ and $a$ by $b$, we would conclude that $Bcap Eneqvarnothing$, contradicting what we have just proved.
Therefore, $B=varnothing$. This proves that $overline{E}$ is connected.
PS: As $Esubseteq Acup B$ and $Ecap B=varnothing$, then $Esubseteq A$, so $overline{E}subseteqoverline{A}$. It follows that
$$B=Bcapoverline{E}subseteq Bcapoverline{A}=varnothing.$$
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2
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I dont follow $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. Since $ain A$ and $U$ is a neighborhood of $a$, $ain U$. When I say neighborhood, I would mean $Usubset A$ and $U$ is open. Using this definition and $Acup B=bar{E}$, we have $Ucapbar{E}=(Ucap A)cup(Ucap B)=U$, and since $A,U$ are nonempty, we cant have $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. If $U$ is a open set such that $Asubset U$ and $ain A$, $Ucapbar{E} = A$ which again is nonempty since $ain A$.
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– dustin
Mar 17 '15 at 19:21
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Is it the similar proof for "Closure of a connected subset is connected"?
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– S786
Apr 23 '15 at 11:50
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@Luiz Corderio I also don't understand the $Ucapbar{E}=emptyset$. Can you please explain.
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– Babai
Nov 8 '15 at 14:34
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@Babai This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$.
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– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:20
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@dustin This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$. Also, $U$ is a neighbourhood of $a$ in $X$, so it does not need to be true that $Usubset A$.
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– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:22
|
show 3 more comments
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There is only one part which might not have been explained in detail **
$ E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$
**
$A$ and B are separation of $bar{E}$ implies $Acap E$ and $Bcap E$ is a separation of $E$(trivial to proof).
$implies$ $overline{(Acap E)}cap(Bcap E)=emptyset$ $implies (bar{A}capbar{E})cap B cap E=emptyset (because bar{X}cap bar{Y}subset overline{Xcap Y} )implies bar{A}cap B cap bar{E}=emptyset implies Acap Bcapbar{ E}=emptyset$
(I kept using the fact: $Ccap D=emptyset $ and $C'subset C$ then $C'cap D=emptyset$)
$Acap Bcap bar{E}=emptyset$ says if $xin bar{E}$ and also $xin A$ then $xnotin B$ (Similarly, $xin bar{E}$ and also $xin B$ then $xnotin A$.
Therefore, $E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$
It is important to keep using the equivalent definitions of connectedness:
A topological space $X$ is disconnected if
Definition 1: there are two non-empty open sets $A$ and $B$ such that $X=Acup B$ and $Acap B=emptyset$
Definition 2: there are two subsets $A$ and $B$ such that $X=Acup B,$ $bar{A}cap B=emptyset$ and $Acap bar{B}=emptyset$
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
Suppose that $E$ is connected. Let $A,Bsubseteq X$ be separated sets (that is, $overline{A}cap B=Acapoverline{B}=varnothing$) such that $overline{E}=Acup B$, and suppose that $Aneqvarnothing$. Let us prove that $B=varnothing$.
Let $ain A$. Since $Acap overline{B}=varnothing$, there exists a neighborhood $U$ of $a$ such that $Ucap B=varnothing$. Since $ainoverline{E}$, then there exists some point $xin Ecap U$, so $xnotin B$, hence $xin Ecap A$. Therefore, $Ecap Aneqvarnothing$.
Notice that $E=(Acap E)cup (Bcap E)$, and $Acap E$ and $Bcap E$ are obviously separated. As $Acap Eneqvarnothing$, from the previous paragraph, and $E$ is connected, then $Bcap E=varnothing$.
(See PS below for an alternative end to the proof without the argument by contradiction)
Finally, suppose, in order to obtain a contradiction, that $Bneqvarnothing$, and take $bin B$. By the same arguments as those used in the second paragraph above, switching $A$ and $B$ and $a$ by $b$, we would conclude that $Bcap Eneqvarnothing$, contradicting what we have just proved.
Therefore, $B=varnothing$. This proves that $overline{E}$ is connected.
PS: As $Esubseteq Acup B$ and $Ecap B=varnothing$, then $Esubseteq A$, so $overline{E}subseteqoverline{A}$. It follows that
$$B=Bcapoverline{E}subseteq Bcapoverline{A}=varnothing.$$
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
I dont follow $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. Since $ain A$ and $U$ is a neighborhood of $a$, $ain U$. When I say neighborhood, I would mean $Usubset A$ and $U$ is open. Using this definition and $Acup B=bar{E}$, we have $Ucapbar{E}=(Ucap A)cup(Ucap B)=U$, and since $A,U$ are nonempty, we cant have $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. If $U$ is a open set such that $Asubset U$ and $ain A$, $Ucapbar{E} = A$ which again is nonempty since $ain A$.
$endgroup$
– dustin
Mar 17 '15 at 19:21
$begingroup$
Is it the similar proof for "Closure of a connected subset is connected"?
$endgroup$
– S786
Apr 23 '15 at 11:50
$begingroup$
@Luiz Corderio I also don't understand the $Ucapbar{E}=emptyset$. Can you please explain.
$endgroup$
– Babai
Nov 8 '15 at 14:34
$begingroup$
@Babai This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$.
$endgroup$
– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:20
$begingroup$
@dustin This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$. Also, $U$ is a neighbourhood of $a$ in $X$, so it does not need to be true that $Usubset A$.
$endgroup$
– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:22
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Suppose that $E$ is connected. Let $A,Bsubseteq X$ be separated sets (that is, $overline{A}cap B=Acapoverline{B}=varnothing$) such that $overline{E}=Acup B$, and suppose that $Aneqvarnothing$. Let us prove that $B=varnothing$.
Let $ain A$. Since $Acap overline{B}=varnothing$, there exists a neighborhood $U$ of $a$ such that $Ucap B=varnothing$. Since $ainoverline{E}$, then there exists some point $xin Ecap U$, so $xnotin B$, hence $xin Ecap A$. Therefore, $Ecap Aneqvarnothing$.
Notice that $E=(Acap E)cup (Bcap E)$, and $Acap E$ and $Bcap E$ are obviously separated. As $Acap Eneqvarnothing$, from the previous paragraph, and $E$ is connected, then $Bcap E=varnothing$.
(See PS below for an alternative end to the proof without the argument by contradiction)
Finally, suppose, in order to obtain a contradiction, that $Bneqvarnothing$, and take $bin B$. By the same arguments as those used in the second paragraph above, switching $A$ and $B$ and $a$ by $b$, we would conclude that $Bcap Eneqvarnothing$, contradicting what we have just proved.
Therefore, $B=varnothing$. This proves that $overline{E}$ is connected.
PS: As $Esubseteq Acup B$ and $Ecap B=varnothing$, then $Esubseteq A$, so $overline{E}subseteqoverline{A}$. It follows that
$$B=Bcapoverline{E}subseteq Bcapoverline{A}=varnothing.$$
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
I dont follow $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. Since $ain A$ and $U$ is a neighborhood of $a$, $ain U$. When I say neighborhood, I would mean $Usubset A$ and $U$ is open. Using this definition and $Acup B=bar{E}$, we have $Ucapbar{E}=(Ucap A)cup(Ucap B)=U$, and since $A,U$ are nonempty, we cant have $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. If $U$ is a open set such that $Asubset U$ and $ain A$, $Ucapbar{E} = A$ which again is nonempty since $ain A$.
$endgroup$
– dustin
Mar 17 '15 at 19:21
$begingroup$
Is it the similar proof for "Closure of a connected subset is connected"?
$endgroup$
– S786
Apr 23 '15 at 11:50
$begingroup$
@Luiz Corderio I also don't understand the $Ucapbar{E}=emptyset$. Can you please explain.
$endgroup$
– Babai
Nov 8 '15 at 14:34
$begingroup$
@Babai This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$.
$endgroup$
– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:20
$begingroup$
@dustin This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$. Also, $U$ is a neighbourhood of $a$ in $X$, so it does not need to be true that $Usubset A$.
$endgroup$
– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:22
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Suppose that $E$ is connected. Let $A,Bsubseteq X$ be separated sets (that is, $overline{A}cap B=Acapoverline{B}=varnothing$) such that $overline{E}=Acup B$, and suppose that $Aneqvarnothing$. Let us prove that $B=varnothing$.
Let $ain A$. Since $Acap overline{B}=varnothing$, there exists a neighborhood $U$ of $a$ such that $Ucap B=varnothing$. Since $ainoverline{E}$, then there exists some point $xin Ecap U$, so $xnotin B$, hence $xin Ecap A$. Therefore, $Ecap Aneqvarnothing$.
Notice that $E=(Acap E)cup (Bcap E)$, and $Acap E$ and $Bcap E$ are obviously separated. As $Acap Eneqvarnothing$, from the previous paragraph, and $E$ is connected, then $Bcap E=varnothing$.
(See PS below for an alternative end to the proof without the argument by contradiction)
Finally, suppose, in order to obtain a contradiction, that $Bneqvarnothing$, and take $bin B$. By the same arguments as those used in the second paragraph above, switching $A$ and $B$ and $a$ by $b$, we would conclude that $Bcap Eneqvarnothing$, contradicting what we have just proved.
Therefore, $B=varnothing$. This proves that $overline{E}$ is connected.
PS: As $Esubseteq Acup B$ and $Ecap B=varnothing$, then $Esubseteq A$, so $overline{E}subseteqoverline{A}$. It follows that
$$B=Bcapoverline{E}subseteq Bcapoverline{A}=varnothing.$$
$endgroup$
Suppose that $E$ is connected. Let $A,Bsubseteq X$ be separated sets (that is, $overline{A}cap B=Acapoverline{B}=varnothing$) such that $overline{E}=Acup B$, and suppose that $Aneqvarnothing$. Let us prove that $B=varnothing$.
Let $ain A$. Since $Acap overline{B}=varnothing$, there exists a neighborhood $U$ of $a$ such that $Ucap B=varnothing$. Since $ainoverline{E}$, then there exists some point $xin Ecap U$, so $xnotin B$, hence $xin Ecap A$. Therefore, $Ecap Aneqvarnothing$.
Notice that $E=(Acap E)cup (Bcap E)$, and $Acap E$ and $Bcap E$ are obviously separated. As $Acap Eneqvarnothing$, from the previous paragraph, and $E$ is connected, then $Bcap E=varnothing$.
(See PS below for an alternative end to the proof without the argument by contradiction)
Finally, suppose, in order to obtain a contradiction, that $Bneqvarnothing$, and take $bin B$. By the same arguments as those used in the second paragraph above, switching $A$ and $B$ and $a$ by $b$, we would conclude that $Bcap Eneqvarnothing$, contradicting what we have just proved.
Therefore, $B=varnothing$. This proves that $overline{E}$ is connected.
PS: As $Esubseteq Acup B$ and $Ecap B=varnothing$, then $Esubseteq A$, so $overline{E}subseteqoverline{A}$. It follows that
$$B=Bcapoverline{E}subseteq Bcapoverline{A}=varnothing.$$
edited Dec 18 '18 at 14:46
answered Feb 16 '14 at 6:00
Luiz CordeiroLuiz Cordeiro
12.8k1344
12.8k1344
2
$begingroup$
I dont follow $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. Since $ain A$ and $U$ is a neighborhood of $a$, $ain U$. When I say neighborhood, I would mean $Usubset A$ and $U$ is open. Using this definition and $Acup B=bar{E}$, we have $Ucapbar{E}=(Ucap A)cup(Ucap B)=U$, and since $A,U$ are nonempty, we cant have $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. If $U$ is a open set such that $Asubset U$ and $ain A$, $Ucapbar{E} = A$ which again is nonempty since $ain A$.
$endgroup$
– dustin
Mar 17 '15 at 19:21
$begingroup$
Is it the similar proof for "Closure of a connected subset is connected"?
$endgroup$
– S786
Apr 23 '15 at 11:50
$begingroup$
@Luiz Corderio I also don't understand the $Ucapbar{E}=emptyset$. Can you please explain.
$endgroup$
– Babai
Nov 8 '15 at 14:34
$begingroup$
@Babai This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$.
$endgroup$
– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:20
$begingroup$
@dustin This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$. Also, $U$ is a neighbourhood of $a$ in $X$, so it does not need to be true that $Usubset A$.
$endgroup$
– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:22
|
show 3 more comments
2
$begingroup$
I dont follow $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. Since $ain A$ and $U$ is a neighborhood of $a$, $ain U$. When I say neighborhood, I would mean $Usubset A$ and $U$ is open. Using this definition and $Acup B=bar{E}$, we have $Ucapbar{E}=(Ucap A)cup(Ucap B)=U$, and since $A,U$ are nonempty, we cant have $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. If $U$ is a open set such that $Asubset U$ and $ain A$, $Ucapbar{E} = A$ which again is nonempty since $ain A$.
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– dustin
Mar 17 '15 at 19:21
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Is it the similar proof for "Closure of a connected subset is connected"?
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– S786
Apr 23 '15 at 11:50
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@Luiz Corderio I also don't understand the $Ucapbar{E}=emptyset$. Can you please explain.
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– Babai
Nov 8 '15 at 14:34
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@Babai This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$.
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– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:20
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@dustin This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$. Also, $U$ is a neighbourhood of $a$ in $X$, so it does not need to be true that $Usubset A$.
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– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:22
2
2
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I dont follow $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. Since $ain A$ and $U$ is a neighborhood of $a$, $ain U$. When I say neighborhood, I would mean $Usubset A$ and $U$ is open. Using this definition and $Acup B=bar{E}$, we have $Ucapbar{E}=(Ucap A)cup(Ucap B)=U$, and since $A,U$ are nonempty, we cant have $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. If $U$ is a open set such that $Asubset U$ and $ain A$, $Ucapbar{E} = A$ which again is nonempty since $ain A$.
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– dustin
Mar 17 '15 at 19:21
$begingroup$
I dont follow $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. Since $ain A$ and $U$ is a neighborhood of $a$, $ain U$. When I say neighborhood, I would mean $Usubset A$ and $U$ is open. Using this definition and $Acup B=bar{E}$, we have $Ucapbar{E}=(Ucap A)cup(Ucap B)=U$, and since $A,U$ are nonempty, we cant have $Ucapbar{E}=varnothing$. If $U$ is a open set such that $Asubset U$ and $ain A$, $Ucapbar{E} = A$ which again is nonempty since $ain A$.
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– dustin
Mar 17 '15 at 19:21
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Is it the similar proof for "Closure of a connected subset is connected"?
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– S786
Apr 23 '15 at 11:50
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Is it the similar proof for "Closure of a connected subset is connected"?
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– S786
Apr 23 '15 at 11:50
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@Luiz Corderio I also don't understand the $Ucapbar{E}=emptyset$. Can you please explain.
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– Babai
Nov 8 '15 at 14:34
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@Luiz Corderio I also don't understand the $Ucapbar{E}=emptyset$. Can you please explain.
$endgroup$
– Babai
Nov 8 '15 at 14:34
$begingroup$
@Babai This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$.
$endgroup$
– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:20
$begingroup$
@Babai This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$.
$endgroup$
– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:20
$begingroup$
@dustin This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$. Also, $U$ is a neighbourhood of $a$ in $X$, so it does not need to be true that $Usubset A$.
$endgroup$
– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:22
$begingroup$
@dustin This was a typo. I meant $Ucapoverline{B}=varnothing$. Also, $U$ is a neighbourhood of $a$ in $X$, so it does not need to be true that $Usubset A$.
$endgroup$
– Luiz Cordeiro
Nov 9 '15 at 16:22
|
show 3 more comments
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There is only one part which might not have been explained in detail **
$ E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$
**
$A$ and B are separation of $bar{E}$ implies $Acap E$ and $Bcap E$ is a separation of $E$(trivial to proof).
$implies$ $overline{(Acap E)}cap(Bcap E)=emptyset$ $implies (bar{A}capbar{E})cap B cap E=emptyset (because bar{X}cap bar{Y}subset overline{Xcap Y} )implies bar{A}cap B cap bar{E}=emptyset implies Acap Bcapbar{ E}=emptyset$
(I kept using the fact: $Ccap D=emptyset $ and $C'subset C$ then $C'cap D=emptyset$)
$Acap Bcap bar{E}=emptyset$ says if $xin bar{E}$ and also $xin A$ then $xnotin B$ (Similarly, $xin bar{E}$ and also $xin B$ then $xnotin A$.
Therefore, $E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$
It is important to keep using the equivalent definitions of connectedness:
A topological space $X$ is disconnected if
Definition 1: there are two non-empty open sets $A$ and $B$ such that $X=Acup B$ and $Acap B=emptyset$
Definition 2: there are two subsets $A$ and $B$ such that $X=Acup B,$ $bar{A}cap B=emptyset$ and $Acap bar{B}=emptyset$
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
There is only one part which might not have been explained in detail **
$ E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$
**
$A$ and B are separation of $bar{E}$ implies $Acap E$ and $Bcap E$ is a separation of $E$(trivial to proof).
$implies$ $overline{(Acap E)}cap(Bcap E)=emptyset$ $implies (bar{A}capbar{E})cap B cap E=emptyset (because bar{X}cap bar{Y}subset overline{Xcap Y} )implies bar{A}cap B cap bar{E}=emptyset implies Acap Bcapbar{ E}=emptyset$
(I kept using the fact: $Ccap D=emptyset $ and $C'subset C$ then $C'cap D=emptyset$)
$Acap Bcap bar{E}=emptyset$ says if $xin bar{E}$ and also $xin A$ then $xnotin B$ (Similarly, $xin bar{E}$ and also $xin B$ then $xnotin A$.
Therefore, $E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$
It is important to keep using the equivalent definitions of connectedness:
A topological space $X$ is disconnected if
Definition 1: there are two non-empty open sets $A$ and $B$ such that $X=Acup B$ and $Acap B=emptyset$
Definition 2: there are two subsets $A$ and $B$ such that $X=Acup B,$ $bar{A}cap B=emptyset$ and $Acap bar{B}=emptyset$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There is only one part which might not have been explained in detail **
$ E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$
**
$A$ and B are separation of $bar{E}$ implies $Acap E$ and $Bcap E$ is a separation of $E$(trivial to proof).
$implies$ $overline{(Acap E)}cap(Bcap E)=emptyset$ $implies (bar{A}capbar{E})cap B cap E=emptyset (because bar{X}cap bar{Y}subset overline{Xcap Y} )implies bar{A}cap B cap bar{E}=emptyset implies Acap Bcapbar{ E}=emptyset$
(I kept using the fact: $Ccap D=emptyset $ and $C'subset C$ then $C'cap D=emptyset$)
$Acap Bcap bar{E}=emptyset$ says if $xin bar{E}$ and also $xin A$ then $xnotin B$ (Similarly, $xin bar{E}$ and also $xin B$ then $xnotin A$.
Therefore, $E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$
It is important to keep using the equivalent definitions of connectedness:
A topological space $X$ is disconnected if
Definition 1: there are two non-empty open sets $A$ and $B$ such that $X=Acup B$ and $Acap B=emptyset$
Definition 2: there are two subsets $A$ and $B$ such that $X=Acup B,$ $bar{A}cap B=emptyset$ and $Acap bar{B}=emptyset$
$endgroup$
There is only one part which might not have been explained in detail **
$ E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$
**
$A$ and B are separation of $bar{E}$ implies $Acap E$ and $Bcap E$ is a separation of $E$(trivial to proof).
$implies$ $overline{(Acap E)}cap(Bcap E)=emptyset$ $implies (bar{A}capbar{E})cap B cap E=emptyset (because bar{X}cap bar{Y}subset overline{Xcap Y} )implies bar{A}cap B cap bar{E}=emptyset implies Acap Bcapbar{ E}=emptyset$
(I kept using the fact: $Ccap D=emptyset $ and $C'subset C$ then $C'cap D=emptyset$)
$Acap Bcap bar{E}=emptyset$ says if $xin bar{E}$ and also $xin A$ then $xnotin B$ (Similarly, $xin bar{E}$ and also $xin B$ then $xnotin A$.
Therefore, $E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$
It is important to keep using the equivalent definitions of connectedness:
A topological space $X$ is disconnected if
Definition 1: there are two non-empty open sets $A$ and $B$ such that $X=Acup B$ and $Acap B=emptyset$
Definition 2: there are two subsets $A$ and $B$ such that $X=Acup B,$ $bar{A}cap B=emptyset$ and $Acap bar{B}=emptyset$
edited Nov 8 '15 at 15:38
answered Nov 8 '15 at 15:23
BabaiBabai
2,65121640
2,65121640
add a comment |
add a comment |
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1
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Why does $E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$?
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– David Peterson
Feb 16 '14 at 3:05
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My reasoning was that since $overline{E}=Acup B$ and also that $overline{E}=Ecup E'$, and since $E'' subset E'$, then $E''$ must be a subset of one of the sets that separate $overline{E}$ (because certainly $E'' cup E = overline{E}$
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– illysial
Feb 16 '14 at 3:12
4
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The problem (I believe) with your proof is that you never use that $E$ is connected. You say it to imply $E$ does not contain its limit points, but that isn't using the property of connectedness. Take for example $E$ as the disjoint union of two open balls, forgetting your statement of the assumption that $E$ is connected. Then everything you write up until "$E''subset A$ or $E''subset B$" is valid, but breaks at this point.
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– David Peterson
Feb 16 '14 at 3:28
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I also felt awkward about not using that condition more...but I see your point I think.
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– illysial
Feb 16 '14 at 3:44