Show that $x_{n+1} = frac{2+x_n^2}{2x_n}$ is a decreasing sequence.











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2
down vote

favorite













Let $x_n$ be defined as:
$$
begin{cases}
x_{n+1} = frac{2+x_n^2}{2x_n} \
nin mathbb N \
x_1 = 4
end{cases}
$$

Show that $x_n$ is a decreasing sequence.




I'm having a hard time with the sequence above. I've started with assuming that $x_{n+1} < x_n$. Now having that in mind we may inspect the following inequality:



$$
x < frac{2+x^2}{2x} iff 2x^2 < 2+x^2 iff x^2 < 2
$$



The inequality doesn't show what's needed but $sqrt2$ seems to be a point to which the sequence converges. I've also tried calculations with various initial conditions for $x_1$ and it looks like for all $x_1 > 0$ the sequence converges to $sqrt2$ while for $x_1 < 0$ it converges to $-sqrt2$.



Finding a closed form seems to not be an options since this recurrence is non-linear and i don't think it has a closed form.



What would be a formal way to show that $x_n$ is decreasing?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • If $x_1 lt 0$, show $-sqrt{2} lt x_n lt 0$ by induction. If $x_1 gt 0$, show $sqrt{2} gt x_n gt 0$ by induction.
    – Ewan Delanoy
    Nov 14 at 15:53










  • It is possible to get a closed form for this. Just define $y_n = frac{x_n - sqrt{2}}{x_n+sqrt{2}}$. The recurrence relation for $(y_n)$ is very simple: $y_{n+1} = y_n^2 implies y_n = y_1^{2^{n-1}}$.
    – achille hui
    Nov 14 at 16:08












  • @achillehui How did you arrive at such definition?
    – roman
    Nov 14 at 16:10










  • @roman similar question has been asked on math.SE many times. When you are here long enough, you will pick up this trick.
    – achille hui
    Nov 14 at 16:12















up vote
2
down vote

favorite













Let $x_n$ be defined as:
$$
begin{cases}
x_{n+1} = frac{2+x_n^2}{2x_n} \
nin mathbb N \
x_1 = 4
end{cases}
$$

Show that $x_n$ is a decreasing sequence.




I'm having a hard time with the sequence above. I've started with assuming that $x_{n+1} < x_n$. Now having that in mind we may inspect the following inequality:



$$
x < frac{2+x^2}{2x} iff 2x^2 < 2+x^2 iff x^2 < 2
$$



The inequality doesn't show what's needed but $sqrt2$ seems to be a point to which the sequence converges. I've also tried calculations with various initial conditions for $x_1$ and it looks like for all $x_1 > 0$ the sequence converges to $sqrt2$ while for $x_1 < 0$ it converges to $-sqrt2$.



Finding a closed form seems to not be an options since this recurrence is non-linear and i don't think it has a closed form.



What would be a formal way to show that $x_n$ is decreasing?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • If $x_1 lt 0$, show $-sqrt{2} lt x_n lt 0$ by induction. If $x_1 gt 0$, show $sqrt{2} gt x_n gt 0$ by induction.
    – Ewan Delanoy
    Nov 14 at 15:53










  • It is possible to get a closed form for this. Just define $y_n = frac{x_n - sqrt{2}}{x_n+sqrt{2}}$. The recurrence relation for $(y_n)$ is very simple: $y_{n+1} = y_n^2 implies y_n = y_1^{2^{n-1}}$.
    – achille hui
    Nov 14 at 16:08












  • @achillehui How did you arrive at such definition?
    – roman
    Nov 14 at 16:10










  • @roman similar question has been asked on math.SE many times. When you are here long enough, you will pick up this trick.
    – achille hui
    Nov 14 at 16:12













up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite












Let $x_n$ be defined as:
$$
begin{cases}
x_{n+1} = frac{2+x_n^2}{2x_n} \
nin mathbb N \
x_1 = 4
end{cases}
$$

Show that $x_n$ is a decreasing sequence.




I'm having a hard time with the sequence above. I've started with assuming that $x_{n+1} < x_n$. Now having that in mind we may inspect the following inequality:



$$
x < frac{2+x^2}{2x} iff 2x^2 < 2+x^2 iff x^2 < 2
$$



The inequality doesn't show what's needed but $sqrt2$ seems to be a point to which the sequence converges. I've also tried calculations with various initial conditions for $x_1$ and it looks like for all $x_1 > 0$ the sequence converges to $sqrt2$ while for $x_1 < 0$ it converges to $-sqrt2$.



Finding a closed form seems to not be an options since this recurrence is non-linear and i don't think it has a closed form.



What would be a formal way to show that $x_n$ is decreasing?










share|cite|improve this question
















Let $x_n$ be defined as:
$$
begin{cases}
x_{n+1} = frac{2+x_n^2}{2x_n} \
nin mathbb N \
x_1 = 4
end{cases}
$$

Show that $x_n$ is a decreasing sequence.




I'm having a hard time with the sequence above. I've started with assuming that $x_{n+1} < x_n$. Now having that in mind we may inspect the following inequality:



$$
x < frac{2+x^2}{2x} iff 2x^2 < 2+x^2 iff x^2 < 2
$$



The inequality doesn't show what's needed but $sqrt2$ seems to be a point to which the sequence converges. I've also tried calculations with various initial conditions for $x_1$ and it looks like for all $x_1 > 0$ the sequence converges to $sqrt2$ while for $x_1 < 0$ it converges to $-sqrt2$.



Finding a closed form seems to not be an options since this recurrence is non-linear and i don't think it has a closed form.



What would be a formal way to show that $x_n$ is decreasing?







sequences-and-series algebra-precalculus recurrence-relations monotone-functions






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share|cite|improve this question













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edited Nov 14 at 15:53

























asked Nov 14 at 15:50









roman

9561815




9561815












  • If $x_1 lt 0$, show $-sqrt{2} lt x_n lt 0$ by induction. If $x_1 gt 0$, show $sqrt{2} gt x_n gt 0$ by induction.
    – Ewan Delanoy
    Nov 14 at 15:53










  • It is possible to get a closed form for this. Just define $y_n = frac{x_n - sqrt{2}}{x_n+sqrt{2}}$. The recurrence relation for $(y_n)$ is very simple: $y_{n+1} = y_n^2 implies y_n = y_1^{2^{n-1}}$.
    – achille hui
    Nov 14 at 16:08












  • @achillehui How did you arrive at such definition?
    – roman
    Nov 14 at 16:10










  • @roman similar question has been asked on math.SE many times. When you are here long enough, you will pick up this trick.
    – achille hui
    Nov 14 at 16:12


















  • If $x_1 lt 0$, show $-sqrt{2} lt x_n lt 0$ by induction. If $x_1 gt 0$, show $sqrt{2} gt x_n gt 0$ by induction.
    – Ewan Delanoy
    Nov 14 at 15:53










  • It is possible to get a closed form for this. Just define $y_n = frac{x_n - sqrt{2}}{x_n+sqrt{2}}$. The recurrence relation for $(y_n)$ is very simple: $y_{n+1} = y_n^2 implies y_n = y_1^{2^{n-1}}$.
    – achille hui
    Nov 14 at 16:08












  • @achillehui How did you arrive at such definition?
    – roman
    Nov 14 at 16:10










  • @roman similar question has been asked on math.SE many times. When you are here long enough, you will pick up this trick.
    – achille hui
    Nov 14 at 16:12
















If $x_1 lt 0$, show $-sqrt{2} lt x_n lt 0$ by induction. If $x_1 gt 0$, show $sqrt{2} gt x_n gt 0$ by induction.
– Ewan Delanoy
Nov 14 at 15:53




If $x_1 lt 0$, show $-sqrt{2} lt x_n lt 0$ by induction. If $x_1 gt 0$, show $sqrt{2} gt x_n gt 0$ by induction.
– Ewan Delanoy
Nov 14 at 15:53












It is possible to get a closed form for this. Just define $y_n = frac{x_n - sqrt{2}}{x_n+sqrt{2}}$. The recurrence relation for $(y_n)$ is very simple: $y_{n+1} = y_n^2 implies y_n = y_1^{2^{n-1}}$.
– achille hui
Nov 14 at 16:08






It is possible to get a closed form for this. Just define $y_n = frac{x_n - sqrt{2}}{x_n+sqrt{2}}$. The recurrence relation for $(y_n)$ is very simple: $y_{n+1} = y_n^2 implies y_n = y_1^{2^{n-1}}$.
– achille hui
Nov 14 at 16:08














@achillehui How did you arrive at such definition?
– roman
Nov 14 at 16:10




@achillehui How did you arrive at such definition?
– roman
Nov 14 at 16:10












@roman similar question has been asked on math.SE many times. When you are here long enough, you will pick up this trick.
– achille hui
Nov 14 at 16:12




@roman similar question has been asked on math.SE many times. When you are here long enough, you will pick up this trick.
– achille hui
Nov 14 at 16:12










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
2
down vote



accepted










Note that $x_{n+1} = frac{1}{x_n}+frac{x_n}{2}.$ Then for $x_n>sqrt{2}$



$$frac{x_{n+1}}{x_n} = frac{1}{x_n^2}+frac{1}{2}<1.$$



When you fix the direction of your inequality, you'll have shown that $x_n >sqrt{2}$ for all $n$. So the inequality above shows $x_{n+1}<x_n.$



Or I guess you could let $f(x) = frac{1}{x}+frac{x}{2}$ and use calculus to show that $f(x)$ is increasing for $x>sqrt{2}$ and conclude that if $x_n>sqrt{2}$ then so must $x_{n+1}>sqrt{2}.$






share|cite|improve this answer






























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    The condition, $x<frac{2+x^2}{2x}$, is the condition that would have to be true for the sequence to be increasing (since the condition says "the $n+1$-th element is larger than the $n$-th).



    The actual condition has the inequality reversed, and you can prove that this holds by



    first, through induction, proving that $x_n geqsqrt 2$ for all $n$.



    then, proving your actual result.






    share|cite|improve this answer




























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      One can solve
      begin{align}
      x_{n+1}=frac{x_n^2+2}{2x_n}&>sqrt2\
      x_n^2+2&>2sqrt2 x_n\
      x_n^2-2sqrt2 x_n+2&=(x_n-sqrt2)^2\
      &>0
      end{align}

      Which is true for any $x_nneq sqrt2$






      share|cite|improve this answer























      • Without loss of generality, take $x_1=2$? What? $x_1$ is defined, and is equal to $4$...
        – 5xum
        Nov 14 at 15:58










      • This answer does not address the main issue of the OP, which is that the first inequality OP wrote is incorrect...
        – 5xum
        Nov 14 at 16:03











      Your Answer





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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

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      active

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      active

      oldest

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      up vote
      2
      down vote



      accepted










      Note that $x_{n+1} = frac{1}{x_n}+frac{x_n}{2}.$ Then for $x_n>sqrt{2}$



      $$frac{x_{n+1}}{x_n} = frac{1}{x_n^2}+frac{1}{2}<1.$$



      When you fix the direction of your inequality, you'll have shown that $x_n >sqrt{2}$ for all $n$. So the inequality above shows $x_{n+1}<x_n.$



      Or I guess you could let $f(x) = frac{1}{x}+frac{x}{2}$ and use calculus to show that $f(x)$ is increasing for $x>sqrt{2}$ and conclude that if $x_n>sqrt{2}$ then so must $x_{n+1}>sqrt{2}.$






      share|cite|improve this answer



























        up vote
        2
        down vote



        accepted










        Note that $x_{n+1} = frac{1}{x_n}+frac{x_n}{2}.$ Then for $x_n>sqrt{2}$



        $$frac{x_{n+1}}{x_n} = frac{1}{x_n^2}+frac{1}{2}<1.$$



        When you fix the direction of your inequality, you'll have shown that $x_n >sqrt{2}$ for all $n$. So the inequality above shows $x_{n+1}<x_n.$



        Or I guess you could let $f(x) = frac{1}{x}+frac{x}{2}$ and use calculus to show that $f(x)$ is increasing for $x>sqrt{2}$ and conclude that if $x_n>sqrt{2}$ then so must $x_{n+1}>sqrt{2}.$






        share|cite|improve this answer

























          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted






          Note that $x_{n+1} = frac{1}{x_n}+frac{x_n}{2}.$ Then for $x_n>sqrt{2}$



          $$frac{x_{n+1}}{x_n} = frac{1}{x_n^2}+frac{1}{2}<1.$$



          When you fix the direction of your inequality, you'll have shown that $x_n >sqrt{2}$ for all $n$. So the inequality above shows $x_{n+1}<x_n.$



          Or I guess you could let $f(x) = frac{1}{x}+frac{x}{2}$ and use calculus to show that $f(x)$ is increasing for $x>sqrt{2}$ and conclude that if $x_n>sqrt{2}$ then so must $x_{n+1}>sqrt{2}.$






          share|cite|improve this answer














          Note that $x_{n+1} = frac{1}{x_n}+frac{x_n}{2}.$ Then for $x_n>sqrt{2}$



          $$frac{x_{n+1}}{x_n} = frac{1}{x_n^2}+frac{1}{2}<1.$$



          When you fix the direction of your inequality, you'll have shown that $x_n >sqrt{2}$ for all $n$. So the inequality above shows $x_{n+1}<x_n.$



          Or I guess you could let $f(x) = frac{1}{x}+frac{x}{2}$ and use calculus to show that $f(x)$ is increasing for $x>sqrt{2}$ and conclude that if $x_n>sqrt{2}$ then so must $x_{n+1}>sqrt{2}.$







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Nov 14 at 16:49

























          answered Nov 14 at 16:33









          B. Goddard

          18k21340




          18k21340






















              up vote
              1
              down vote













              The condition, $x<frac{2+x^2}{2x}$, is the condition that would have to be true for the sequence to be increasing (since the condition says "the $n+1$-th element is larger than the $n$-th).



              The actual condition has the inequality reversed, and you can prove that this holds by



              first, through induction, proving that $x_n geqsqrt 2$ for all $n$.



              then, proving your actual result.






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                1
                down vote













                The condition, $x<frac{2+x^2}{2x}$, is the condition that would have to be true for the sequence to be increasing (since the condition says "the $n+1$-th element is larger than the $n$-th).



                The actual condition has the inequality reversed, and you can prove that this holds by



                first, through induction, proving that $x_n geqsqrt 2$ for all $n$.



                then, proving your actual result.






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote









                  The condition, $x<frac{2+x^2}{2x}$, is the condition that would have to be true for the sequence to be increasing (since the condition says "the $n+1$-th element is larger than the $n$-th).



                  The actual condition has the inequality reversed, and you can prove that this holds by



                  first, through induction, proving that $x_n geqsqrt 2$ for all $n$.



                  then, proving your actual result.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  The condition, $x<frac{2+x^2}{2x}$, is the condition that would have to be true for the sequence to be increasing (since the condition says "the $n+1$-th element is larger than the $n$-th).



                  The actual condition has the inequality reversed, and you can prove that this holds by



                  first, through induction, proving that $x_n geqsqrt 2$ for all $n$.



                  then, proving your actual result.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Nov 14 at 15:56









                  5xum

                  88.4k392160




                  88.4k392160






















                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote













                      One can solve
                      begin{align}
                      x_{n+1}=frac{x_n^2+2}{2x_n}&>sqrt2\
                      x_n^2+2&>2sqrt2 x_n\
                      x_n^2-2sqrt2 x_n+2&=(x_n-sqrt2)^2\
                      &>0
                      end{align}

                      Which is true for any $x_nneq sqrt2$






                      share|cite|improve this answer























                      • Without loss of generality, take $x_1=2$? What? $x_1$ is defined, and is equal to $4$...
                        – 5xum
                        Nov 14 at 15:58










                      • This answer does not address the main issue of the OP, which is that the first inequality OP wrote is incorrect...
                        – 5xum
                        Nov 14 at 16:03















                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote













                      One can solve
                      begin{align}
                      x_{n+1}=frac{x_n^2+2}{2x_n}&>sqrt2\
                      x_n^2+2&>2sqrt2 x_n\
                      x_n^2-2sqrt2 x_n+2&=(x_n-sqrt2)^2\
                      &>0
                      end{align}

                      Which is true for any $x_nneq sqrt2$






                      share|cite|improve this answer























                      • Without loss of generality, take $x_1=2$? What? $x_1$ is defined, and is equal to $4$...
                        – 5xum
                        Nov 14 at 15:58










                      • This answer does not address the main issue of the OP, which is that the first inequality OP wrote is incorrect...
                        – 5xum
                        Nov 14 at 16:03













                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote









                      One can solve
                      begin{align}
                      x_{n+1}=frac{x_n^2+2}{2x_n}&>sqrt2\
                      x_n^2+2&>2sqrt2 x_n\
                      x_n^2-2sqrt2 x_n+2&=(x_n-sqrt2)^2\
                      &>0
                      end{align}

                      Which is true for any $x_nneq sqrt2$






                      share|cite|improve this answer














                      One can solve
                      begin{align}
                      x_{n+1}=frac{x_n^2+2}{2x_n}&>sqrt2\
                      x_n^2+2&>2sqrt2 x_n\
                      x_n^2-2sqrt2 x_n+2&=(x_n-sqrt2)^2\
                      &>0
                      end{align}

                      Which is true for any $x_nneq sqrt2$







                      share|cite|improve this answer














                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer








                      edited Nov 14 at 16:02

























                      answered Nov 14 at 15:56









                      Kevin

                      5,375822




                      5,375822












                      • Without loss of generality, take $x_1=2$? What? $x_1$ is defined, and is equal to $4$...
                        – 5xum
                        Nov 14 at 15:58










                      • This answer does not address the main issue of the OP, which is that the first inequality OP wrote is incorrect...
                        – 5xum
                        Nov 14 at 16:03


















                      • Without loss of generality, take $x_1=2$? What? $x_1$ is defined, and is equal to $4$...
                        – 5xum
                        Nov 14 at 15:58










                      • This answer does not address the main issue of the OP, which is that the first inequality OP wrote is incorrect...
                        – 5xum
                        Nov 14 at 16:03
















                      Without loss of generality, take $x_1=2$? What? $x_1$ is defined, and is equal to $4$...
                      – 5xum
                      Nov 14 at 15:58




                      Without loss of generality, take $x_1=2$? What? $x_1$ is defined, and is equal to $4$...
                      – 5xum
                      Nov 14 at 15:58












                      This answer does not address the main issue of the OP, which is that the first inequality OP wrote is incorrect...
                      – 5xum
                      Nov 14 at 16:03




                      This answer does not address the main issue of the OP, which is that the first inequality OP wrote is incorrect...
                      – 5xum
                      Nov 14 at 16:03


















                       

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