Why weren't the Barons of the Court of Exchequer Barons as peers?












3















The first sentence at Chief Baron of the Exchequer




The Chief Baron of the Exchequer was the first "baron" (i.e., judge) of the English Exchequer of Pleas.




bemused me: Why were these judges were called "barons"? I looked it up on OED:




enter image description here




The list of all Barons of the Exchequer is incomplete. So I'll refer to the list of Chief Barons:




enter image description here




In the screenshot, nobody were barons except Lyndhurst. So why weren't the (Chief) Barons created baronies? It feels uncomely to be Barons of the Exchequer but not "true" Barons, though I know that UKSC justices are no longer created baronies but remain styled 'Lord' or 'Lady'.










share|improve this question





























    3















    The first sentence at Chief Baron of the Exchequer




    The Chief Baron of the Exchequer was the first "baron" (i.e., judge) of the English Exchequer of Pleas.




    bemused me: Why were these judges were called "barons"? I looked it up on OED:




    enter image description here




    The list of all Barons of the Exchequer is incomplete. So I'll refer to the list of Chief Barons:




    enter image description here




    In the screenshot, nobody were barons except Lyndhurst. So why weren't the (Chief) Barons created baronies? It feels uncomely to be Barons of the Exchequer but not "true" Barons, though I know that UKSC justices are no longer created baronies but remain styled 'Lord' or 'Lady'.










    share|improve this question



























      3












      3








      3








      The first sentence at Chief Baron of the Exchequer




      The Chief Baron of the Exchequer was the first "baron" (i.e., judge) of the English Exchequer of Pleas.




      bemused me: Why were these judges were called "barons"? I looked it up on OED:




      enter image description here




      The list of all Barons of the Exchequer is incomplete. So I'll refer to the list of Chief Barons:




      enter image description here




      In the screenshot, nobody were barons except Lyndhurst. So why weren't the (Chief) Barons created baronies? It feels uncomely to be Barons of the Exchequer but not "true" Barons, though I know that UKSC justices are no longer created baronies but remain styled 'Lord' or 'Lady'.










      share|improve this question
















      The first sentence at Chief Baron of the Exchequer




      The Chief Baron of the Exchequer was the first "baron" (i.e., judge) of the English Exchequer of Pleas.




      bemused me: Why were these judges were called "barons"? I looked it up on OED:




      enter image description here




      The list of all Barons of the Exchequer is incomplete. So I'll refer to the list of Chief Barons:




      enter image description here




      In the screenshot, nobody were barons except Lyndhurst. So why weren't the (Chief) Barons created baronies? It feels uncomely to be Barons of the Exchequer but not "true" Barons, though I know that UKSC justices are no longer created baronies but remain styled 'Lord' or 'Lady'.







      england law






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Apr 22 at 1:05







      Greek - Area 51 Proposal

















      asked Apr 21 at 6:58









      Greek - Area 51 ProposalGreek - Area 51 Proposal

      641617




      641617






















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          9














          The short answer is that the members of Court of Exchequer were called Barons because that was members of that court were called.



          The answer is that the titles and court were created in the 1190's when there was no such thing as the House of Lords and titles were not regulated as they were later.
          To show that not all Barons are in the House of Lords. Wikipedia says




          Under King Henry II, the Dialogus de Scaccario already distinguished between greater barons, who held per baroniam by knight's service, and lesser barons, who held manors. Technically, Lords of Manors are barons, or freemen, however they are not entitled to be styled as such. John Selden writes in Titles of Honour, "The word Baro (Latin for Baron) hath been also so much communicated, that not only all Lords of Mannors have been from antient time, and are at this day called sometimes Barons (as in the stile of their Court Barons, which is Curia Baronis, &c. And I have read hors de son Barony in a barr to an Avowry for hors de son fee) But also the Judges of the Exchequer have it from antient time fixed on them."[6]




          The same article continues to say that after Magna Carta the greater barons were summoned to the King's Council which evolved into the House of Lords (and the current definition of Baron) and the
          lesser barons were summoned by choosing members fo a group of them eventually this became House of Commons.



          Thus in Norman era pre 1200 Baron was really just a term for those who had sworn fealty to the king.



          "Select Charters and Other Illustrations of English Constitutional History from the Earliest Times to the Reign of Edward the First (Cambridge Library Collection - Medieval History)" By William Stubbs Amazon.co.uk Google Books shows




          The several members are called ... in the Exchequer barones or barones scaccari, a title that belongs to them even after they have ceased to be chosen from the ranks of the great vassals.







          share|improve this answer


























            Your Answer








            StackExchange.ready(function() {
            var channelOptions = {
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "324"
            };
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
            createEditor();
            });
            }
            else {
            createEditor();
            }
            });

            function createEditor() {
            StackExchange.prepareEditor({
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: false,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: null,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader: {
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            },
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            });


            }
            });














            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fhistory.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f52227%2fwhy-werent-the-barons-of-the-court-of-exchequer-barons-as-peers%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes








            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            9














            The short answer is that the members of Court of Exchequer were called Barons because that was members of that court were called.



            The answer is that the titles and court were created in the 1190's when there was no such thing as the House of Lords and titles were not regulated as they were later.
            To show that not all Barons are in the House of Lords. Wikipedia says




            Under King Henry II, the Dialogus de Scaccario already distinguished between greater barons, who held per baroniam by knight's service, and lesser barons, who held manors. Technically, Lords of Manors are barons, or freemen, however they are not entitled to be styled as such. John Selden writes in Titles of Honour, "The word Baro (Latin for Baron) hath been also so much communicated, that not only all Lords of Mannors have been from antient time, and are at this day called sometimes Barons (as in the stile of their Court Barons, which is Curia Baronis, &c. And I have read hors de son Barony in a barr to an Avowry for hors de son fee) But also the Judges of the Exchequer have it from antient time fixed on them."[6]




            The same article continues to say that after Magna Carta the greater barons were summoned to the King's Council which evolved into the House of Lords (and the current definition of Baron) and the
            lesser barons were summoned by choosing members fo a group of them eventually this became House of Commons.



            Thus in Norman era pre 1200 Baron was really just a term for those who had sworn fealty to the king.



            "Select Charters and Other Illustrations of English Constitutional History from the Earliest Times to the Reign of Edward the First (Cambridge Library Collection - Medieval History)" By William Stubbs Amazon.co.uk Google Books shows




            The several members are called ... in the Exchequer barones or barones scaccari, a title that belongs to them even after they have ceased to be chosen from the ranks of the great vassals.







            share|improve this answer






























              9














              The short answer is that the members of Court of Exchequer were called Barons because that was members of that court were called.



              The answer is that the titles and court were created in the 1190's when there was no such thing as the House of Lords and titles were not regulated as they were later.
              To show that not all Barons are in the House of Lords. Wikipedia says




              Under King Henry II, the Dialogus de Scaccario already distinguished between greater barons, who held per baroniam by knight's service, and lesser barons, who held manors. Technically, Lords of Manors are barons, or freemen, however they are not entitled to be styled as such. John Selden writes in Titles of Honour, "The word Baro (Latin for Baron) hath been also so much communicated, that not only all Lords of Mannors have been from antient time, and are at this day called sometimes Barons (as in the stile of their Court Barons, which is Curia Baronis, &c. And I have read hors de son Barony in a barr to an Avowry for hors de son fee) But also the Judges of the Exchequer have it from antient time fixed on them."[6]




              The same article continues to say that after Magna Carta the greater barons were summoned to the King's Council which evolved into the House of Lords (and the current definition of Baron) and the
              lesser barons were summoned by choosing members fo a group of them eventually this became House of Commons.



              Thus in Norman era pre 1200 Baron was really just a term for those who had sworn fealty to the king.



              "Select Charters and Other Illustrations of English Constitutional History from the Earliest Times to the Reign of Edward the First (Cambridge Library Collection - Medieval History)" By William Stubbs Amazon.co.uk Google Books shows




              The several members are called ... in the Exchequer barones or barones scaccari, a title that belongs to them even after they have ceased to be chosen from the ranks of the great vassals.







              share|improve this answer




























                9












                9








                9







                The short answer is that the members of Court of Exchequer were called Barons because that was members of that court were called.



                The answer is that the titles and court were created in the 1190's when there was no such thing as the House of Lords and titles were not regulated as they were later.
                To show that not all Barons are in the House of Lords. Wikipedia says




                Under King Henry II, the Dialogus de Scaccario already distinguished between greater barons, who held per baroniam by knight's service, and lesser barons, who held manors. Technically, Lords of Manors are barons, or freemen, however they are not entitled to be styled as such. John Selden writes in Titles of Honour, "The word Baro (Latin for Baron) hath been also so much communicated, that not only all Lords of Mannors have been from antient time, and are at this day called sometimes Barons (as in the stile of their Court Barons, which is Curia Baronis, &c. And I have read hors de son Barony in a barr to an Avowry for hors de son fee) But also the Judges of the Exchequer have it from antient time fixed on them."[6]




                The same article continues to say that after Magna Carta the greater barons were summoned to the King's Council which evolved into the House of Lords (and the current definition of Baron) and the
                lesser barons were summoned by choosing members fo a group of them eventually this became House of Commons.



                Thus in Norman era pre 1200 Baron was really just a term for those who had sworn fealty to the king.



                "Select Charters and Other Illustrations of English Constitutional History from the Earliest Times to the Reign of Edward the First (Cambridge Library Collection - Medieval History)" By William Stubbs Amazon.co.uk Google Books shows




                The several members are called ... in the Exchequer barones or barones scaccari, a title that belongs to them even after they have ceased to be chosen from the ranks of the great vassals.







                share|improve this answer















                The short answer is that the members of Court of Exchequer were called Barons because that was members of that court were called.



                The answer is that the titles and court were created in the 1190's when there was no such thing as the House of Lords and titles were not regulated as they were later.
                To show that not all Barons are in the House of Lords. Wikipedia says




                Under King Henry II, the Dialogus de Scaccario already distinguished between greater barons, who held per baroniam by knight's service, and lesser barons, who held manors. Technically, Lords of Manors are barons, or freemen, however they are not entitled to be styled as such. John Selden writes in Titles of Honour, "The word Baro (Latin for Baron) hath been also so much communicated, that not only all Lords of Mannors have been from antient time, and are at this day called sometimes Barons (as in the stile of their Court Barons, which is Curia Baronis, &c. And I have read hors de son Barony in a barr to an Avowry for hors de son fee) But also the Judges of the Exchequer have it from antient time fixed on them."[6]




                The same article continues to say that after Magna Carta the greater barons were summoned to the King's Council which evolved into the House of Lords (and the current definition of Baron) and the
                lesser barons were summoned by choosing members fo a group of them eventually this became House of Commons.



                Thus in Norman era pre 1200 Baron was really just a term for those who had sworn fealty to the king.



                "Select Charters and Other Illustrations of English Constitutional History from the Earliest Times to the Reign of Edward the First (Cambridge Library Collection - Medieval History)" By William Stubbs Amazon.co.uk Google Books shows




                The several members are called ... in the Exchequer barones or barones scaccari, a title that belongs to them even after they have ceased to be chosen from the ranks of the great vassals.








                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited Apr 21 at 10:08

























                answered Apr 21 at 9:54









                MarkMark

                35149




                35149






























                    draft saved

                    draft discarded




















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to History Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function () {
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fhistory.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f52227%2fwhy-werent-the-barons-of-the-court-of-exchequer-barons-as-peers%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                    }
                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    Plaza Victoria

                    In PowerPoint, is there a keyboard shortcut for bulleted / numbered list?

                    How to put 3 figures in Latex with 2 figures side by side and 1 below these side by side images but in...