Limit of integral expression approaches maximum of function [duplicate]












1












$begingroup$



This question already has an answer here:




  • Finding $limlimits_{n rightarrow infty}left(int_0^1(f(x))^n,mathrm dxright)^frac{1}{n}$ for continuous $f:[0,1]to[0,infty)$ [duplicate]

    2 answers




So I've been trying to find a solution for this all afternoon, but haven't found a good place to start:




Prove that if $f:[a,b]tomathbf{R}^+$ is a continuous function with maximum value $M$, then
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}left(int_a^b f(x)^n,dxright)^{1/n} = M
$$




Here are some of the paths I've considered, though none have been very successful:



(1) Considering the sequence of functions for all increasing integer $n$ and trying to show that the sequence converges. We've had plenty of work on converging sequences, but with the integral expression, I am not sure how to simplify.



(2) Showing that that sequence is increasing (again, how?) and then showing there to be a supremum at $M$. I'm not sure how the maximum of the function arrives in this problem.



(3) Mean value theorems for integrals



If anyone could give me a solid place to start or perhaps point me to a place where this question has been asked before (I can't seem to find it), I would be very grateful.










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Nov 30 '18 at 15:20


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.















  • $begingroup$
    Completely believable, but I've never seen this fact in my 30 years in calculus. Interesting.
    $endgroup$
    – Randall
    Nov 30 '18 at 3:52






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hint: Try squeezing it: For example, $f(x) leq M$, so $int_a^bf(x)^n , dx leq (b-a)M^n$.
    $endgroup$
    – Anurag A
    Nov 30 '18 at 3:53








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Note that the expression $left(int_a^bf(x)^nright)^frac{1}{n}$ is the definition of the $L^p$ norm of the function $f$ (since it is positive). For $nrightarrowinfty$ this converges to the max-norm.
    $endgroup$
    – obscurans
    Nov 30 '18 at 3:55










  • $begingroup$
    @AnuragA I see how this gives you an upper bound for the limit, but how do you go about squeezing it from below? or show the sequence is increasing?
    $endgroup$
    – user474084
    Nov 30 '18 at 4:12










  • $begingroup$
    @obscurans can you point me to a proof of this fact?
    $endgroup$
    – user474084
    Nov 30 '18 at 4:19
















1












$begingroup$



This question already has an answer here:




  • Finding $limlimits_{n rightarrow infty}left(int_0^1(f(x))^n,mathrm dxright)^frac{1}{n}$ for continuous $f:[0,1]to[0,infty)$ [duplicate]

    2 answers




So I've been trying to find a solution for this all afternoon, but haven't found a good place to start:




Prove that if $f:[a,b]tomathbf{R}^+$ is a continuous function with maximum value $M$, then
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}left(int_a^b f(x)^n,dxright)^{1/n} = M
$$




Here are some of the paths I've considered, though none have been very successful:



(1) Considering the sequence of functions for all increasing integer $n$ and trying to show that the sequence converges. We've had plenty of work on converging sequences, but with the integral expression, I am not sure how to simplify.



(2) Showing that that sequence is increasing (again, how?) and then showing there to be a supremum at $M$. I'm not sure how the maximum of the function arrives in this problem.



(3) Mean value theorems for integrals



If anyone could give me a solid place to start or perhaps point me to a place where this question has been asked before (I can't seem to find it), I would be very grateful.










share|cite|improve this question









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Nov 30 '18 at 15:20


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.















  • $begingroup$
    Completely believable, but I've never seen this fact in my 30 years in calculus. Interesting.
    $endgroup$
    – Randall
    Nov 30 '18 at 3:52






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hint: Try squeezing it: For example, $f(x) leq M$, so $int_a^bf(x)^n , dx leq (b-a)M^n$.
    $endgroup$
    – Anurag A
    Nov 30 '18 at 3:53








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Note that the expression $left(int_a^bf(x)^nright)^frac{1}{n}$ is the definition of the $L^p$ norm of the function $f$ (since it is positive). For $nrightarrowinfty$ this converges to the max-norm.
    $endgroup$
    – obscurans
    Nov 30 '18 at 3:55










  • $begingroup$
    @AnuragA I see how this gives you an upper bound for the limit, but how do you go about squeezing it from below? or show the sequence is increasing?
    $endgroup$
    – user474084
    Nov 30 '18 at 4:12










  • $begingroup$
    @obscurans can you point me to a proof of this fact?
    $endgroup$
    – user474084
    Nov 30 '18 at 4:19














1












1








1





$begingroup$



This question already has an answer here:




  • Finding $limlimits_{n rightarrow infty}left(int_0^1(f(x))^n,mathrm dxright)^frac{1}{n}$ for continuous $f:[0,1]to[0,infty)$ [duplicate]

    2 answers




So I've been trying to find a solution for this all afternoon, but haven't found a good place to start:




Prove that if $f:[a,b]tomathbf{R}^+$ is a continuous function with maximum value $M$, then
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}left(int_a^b f(x)^n,dxright)^{1/n} = M
$$




Here are some of the paths I've considered, though none have been very successful:



(1) Considering the sequence of functions for all increasing integer $n$ and trying to show that the sequence converges. We've had plenty of work on converging sequences, but with the integral expression, I am not sure how to simplify.



(2) Showing that that sequence is increasing (again, how?) and then showing there to be a supremum at $M$. I'm not sure how the maximum of the function arrives in this problem.



(3) Mean value theorems for integrals



If anyone could give me a solid place to start or perhaps point me to a place where this question has been asked before (I can't seem to find it), I would be very grateful.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$





This question already has an answer here:




  • Finding $limlimits_{n rightarrow infty}left(int_0^1(f(x))^n,mathrm dxright)^frac{1}{n}$ for continuous $f:[0,1]to[0,infty)$ [duplicate]

    2 answers




So I've been trying to find a solution for this all afternoon, but haven't found a good place to start:




Prove that if $f:[a,b]tomathbf{R}^+$ is a continuous function with maximum value $M$, then
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}left(int_a^b f(x)^n,dxright)^{1/n} = M
$$




Here are some of the paths I've considered, though none have been very successful:



(1) Considering the sequence of functions for all increasing integer $n$ and trying to show that the sequence converges. We've had plenty of work on converging sequences, but with the integral expression, I am not sure how to simplify.



(2) Showing that that sequence is increasing (again, how?) and then showing there to be a supremum at $M$. I'm not sure how the maximum of the function arrives in this problem.



(3) Mean value theorems for integrals



If anyone could give me a solid place to start or perhaps point me to a place where this question has been asked before (I can't seem to find it), I would be very grateful.





This question already has an answer here:




  • Finding $limlimits_{n rightarrow infty}left(int_0^1(f(x))^n,mathrm dxright)^frac{1}{n}$ for continuous $f:[0,1]to[0,infty)$ [duplicate]

    2 answers








real-analysis integration limits proof-writing






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Nov 30 '18 at 3:48









user474084user474084

344




344




marked as duplicate by RRL real-analysis
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Nov 30 '18 at 15:20


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.






marked as duplicate by RRL real-analysis
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Nov 30 '18 at 15:20


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.














  • $begingroup$
    Completely believable, but I've never seen this fact in my 30 years in calculus. Interesting.
    $endgroup$
    – Randall
    Nov 30 '18 at 3:52






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hint: Try squeezing it: For example, $f(x) leq M$, so $int_a^bf(x)^n , dx leq (b-a)M^n$.
    $endgroup$
    – Anurag A
    Nov 30 '18 at 3:53








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Note that the expression $left(int_a^bf(x)^nright)^frac{1}{n}$ is the definition of the $L^p$ norm of the function $f$ (since it is positive). For $nrightarrowinfty$ this converges to the max-norm.
    $endgroup$
    – obscurans
    Nov 30 '18 at 3:55










  • $begingroup$
    @AnuragA I see how this gives you an upper bound for the limit, but how do you go about squeezing it from below? or show the sequence is increasing?
    $endgroup$
    – user474084
    Nov 30 '18 at 4:12










  • $begingroup$
    @obscurans can you point me to a proof of this fact?
    $endgroup$
    – user474084
    Nov 30 '18 at 4:19


















  • $begingroup$
    Completely believable, but I've never seen this fact in my 30 years in calculus. Interesting.
    $endgroup$
    – Randall
    Nov 30 '18 at 3:52






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hint: Try squeezing it: For example, $f(x) leq M$, so $int_a^bf(x)^n , dx leq (b-a)M^n$.
    $endgroup$
    – Anurag A
    Nov 30 '18 at 3:53








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Note that the expression $left(int_a^bf(x)^nright)^frac{1}{n}$ is the definition of the $L^p$ norm of the function $f$ (since it is positive). For $nrightarrowinfty$ this converges to the max-norm.
    $endgroup$
    – obscurans
    Nov 30 '18 at 3:55










  • $begingroup$
    @AnuragA I see how this gives you an upper bound for the limit, but how do you go about squeezing it from below? or show the sequence is increasing?
    $endgroup$
    – user474084
    Nov 30 '18 at 4:12










  • $begingroup$
    @obscurans can you point me to a proof of this fact?
    $endgroup$
    – user474084
    Nov 30 '18 at 4:19
















$begingroup$
Completely believable, but I've never seen this fact in my 30 years in calculus. Interesting.
$endgroup$
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 3:52




$begingroup$
Completely believable, but I've never seen this fact in my 30 years in calculus. Interesting.
$endgroup$
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 3:52




1




1




$begingroup$
Hint: Try squeezing it: For example, $f(x) leq M$, so $int_a^bf(x)^n , dx leq (b-a)M^n$.
$endgroup$
– Anurag A
Nov 30 '18 at 3:53






$begingroup$
Hint: Try squeezing it: For example, $f(x) leq M$, so $int_a^bf(x)^n , dx leq (b-a)M^n$.
$endgroup$
– Anurag A
Nov 30 '18 at 3:53






1




1




$begingroup$
Note that the expression $left(int_a^bf(x)^nright)^frac{1}{n}$ is the definition of the $L^p$ norm of the function $f$ (since it is positive). For $nrightarrowinfty$ this converges to the max-norm.
$endgroup$
– obscurans
Nov 30 '18 at 3:55




$begingroup$
Note that the expression $left(int_a^bf(x)^nright)^frac{1}{n}$ is the definition of the $L^p$ norm of the function $f$ (since it is positive). For $nrightarrowinfty$ this converges to the max-norm.
$endgroup$
– obscurans
Nov 30 '18 at 3:55












$begingroup$
@AnuragA I see how this gives you an upper bound for the limit, but how do you go about squeezing it from below? or show the sequence is increasing?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:12




$begingroup$
@AnuragA I see how this gives you an upper bound for the limit, but how do you go about squeezing it from below? or show the sequence is increasing?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:12












$begingroup$
@obscurans can you point me to a proof of this fact?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:19




$begingroup$
@obscurans can you point me to a proof of this fact?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:19










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















0












$begingroup$

If you have done the following question, then you probably know how to do the one in the post:




Given $m$ positive real numbers $a_1, dots, a_n$, prove that
$$
lim_{nto +infty} (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} = max_{j} a_j.
$$




Proof




The trick is to use the squeeze theorem, and note that $$ max_j a_j leqslant (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} leqslant m^{1/n} a_j. $$ Now let $n to +infty$, and note that $lim_n m^{1/n} = 1$.




Using the similar trick, we could do the original one. The problem is $f$ is "continuous". Even $f$ could reach $M$ at some point $x_0$, we cannot directly use it. So we only requires that for each $varepsilon >0$, find those $x$ s.t. $M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M$. So we have the following proof.



Proof




Let $x_0 in [a, b]$ be the point where $f(c) =M$ [this is possible, since $fin mathcal C[a,b]$]. For each $epsilon > 0$, by the definition of continuity, there exists an interval $[c,d]$ that contains $x_0$ s.t. $$ xin [c,d] implies M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M. $$ Thus $$ (d-c)^{1/n} (M-varepsilon) leqslant left(int_c^d f^nright)^{1/n}leqslant left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M, $$ and then $$M-varepsilon leqslant varliminf_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant varlimsup_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M. $$ Now let $varepsilon to 0^+$, then the upper limit and the lower limit are equal to $M$, hence the limit equation.




Remark



Technically, this is actually not an application of the squeezing theorem [the end of the inequality chains are not the same], but the idea is similar. If no tools of upper/lower limits are allowed, then the whole proof could be completed in $varepsilon$-$N$ format.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$




















    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes








    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    0












    $begingroup$

    If you have done the following question, then you probably know how to do the one in the post:




    Given $m$ positive real numbers $a_1, dots, a_n$, prove that
    $$
    lim_{nto +infty} (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} = max_{j} a_j.
    $$




    Proof




    The trick is to use the squeeze theorem, and note that $$ max_j a_j leqslant (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} leqslant m^{1/n} a_j. $$ Now let $n to +infty$, and note that $lim_n m^{1/n} = 1$.




    Using the similar trick, we could do the original one. The problem is $f$ is "continuous". Even $f$ could reach $M$ at some point $x_0$, we cannot directly use it. So we only requires that for each $varepsilon >0$, find those $x$ s.t. $M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M$. So we have the following proof.



    Proof




    Let $x_0 in [a, b]$ be the point where $f(c) =M$ [this is possible, since $fin mathcal C[a,b]$]. For each $epsilon > 0$, by the definition of continuity, there exists an interval $[c,d]$ that contains $x_0$ s.t. $$ xin [c,d] implies M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M. $$ Thus $$ (d-c)^{1/n} (M-varepsilon) leqslant left(int_c^d f^nright)^{1/n}leqslant left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M, $$ and then $$M-varepsilon leqslant varliminf_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant varlimsup_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M. $$ Now let $varepsilon to 0^+$, then the upper limit and the lower limit are equal to $M$, hence the limit equation.




    Remark



    Technically, this is actually not an application of the squeezing theorem [the end of the inequality chains are not the same], but the idea is similar. If no tools of upper/lower limits are allowed, then the whole proof could be completed in $varepsilon$-$N$ format.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      0












      $begingroup$

      If you have done the following question, then you probably know how to do the one in the post:




      Given $m$ positive real numbers $a_1, dots, a_n$, prove that
      $$
      lim_{nto +infty} (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} = max_{j} a_j.
      $$




      Proof




      The trick is to use the squeeze theorem, and note that $$ max_j a_j leqslant (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} leqslant m^{1/n} a_j. $$ Now let $n to +infty$, and note that $lim_n m^{1/n} = 1$.




      Using the similar trick, we could do the original one. The problem is $f$ is "continuous". Even $f$ could reach $M$ at some point $x_0$, we cannot directly use it. So we only requires that for each $varepsilon >0$, find those $x$ s.t. $M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M$. So we have the following proof.



      Proof




      Let $x_0 in [a, b]$ be the point where $f(c) =M$ [this is possible, since $fin mathcal C[a,b]$]. For each $epsilon > 0$, by the definition of continuity, there exists an interval $[c,d]$ that contains $x_0$ s.t. $$ xin [c,d] implies M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M. $$ Thus $$ (d-c)^{1/n} (M-varepsilon) leqslant left(int_c^d f^nright)^{1/n}leqslant left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M, $$ and then $$M-varepsilon leqslant varliminf_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant varlimsup_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M. $$ Now let $varepsilon to 0^+$, then the upper limit and the lower limit are equal to $M$, hence the limit equation.




      Remark



      Technically, this is actually not an application of the squeezing theorem [the end of the inequality chains are not the same], but the idea is similar. If no tools of upper/lower limits are allowed, then the whole proof could be completed in $varepsilon$-$N$ format.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        0












        0








        0





        $begingroup$

        If you have done the following question, then you probably know how to do the one in the post:




        Given $m$ positive real numbers $a_1, dots, a_n$, prove that
        $$
        lim_{nto +infty} (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} = max_{j} a_j.
        $$




        Proof




        The trick is to use the squeeze theorem, and note that $$ max_j a_j leqslant (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} leqslant m^{1/n} a_j. $$ Now let $n to +infty$, and note that $lim_n m^{1/n} = 1$.




        Using the similar trick, we could do the original one. The problem is $f$ is "continuous". Even $f$ could reach $M$ at some point $x_0$, we cannot directly use it. So we only requires that for each $varepsilon >0$, find those $x$ s.t. $M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M$. So we have the following proof.



        Proof




        Let $x_0 in [a, b]$ be the point where $f(c) =M$ [this is possible, since $fin mathcal C[a,b]$]. For each $epsilon > 0$, by the definition of continuity, there exists an interval $[c,d]$ that contains $x_0$ s.t. $$ xin [c,d] implies M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M. $$ Thus $$ (d-c)^{1/n} (M-varepsilon) leqslant left(int_c^d f^nright)^{1/n}leqslant left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M, $$ and then $$M-varepsilon leqslant varliminf_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant varlimsup_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M. $$ Now let $varepsilon to 0^+$, then the upper limit and the lower limit are equal to $M$, hence the limit equation.




        Remark



        Technically, this is actually not an application of the squeezing theorem [the end of the inequality chains are not the same], but the idea is similar. If no tools of upper/lower limits are allowed, then the whole proof could be completed in $varepsilon$-$N$ format.






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        If you have done the following question, then you probably know how to do the one in the post:




        Given $m$ positive real numbers $a_1, dots, a_n$, prove that
        $$
        lim_{nto +infty} (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} = max_{j} a_j.
        $$




        Proof




        The trick is to use the squeeze theorem, and note that $$ max_j a_j leqslant (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} leqslant m^{1/n} a_j. $$ Now let $n to +infty$, and note that $lim_n m^{1/n} = 1$.




        Using the similar trick, we could do the original one. The problem is $f$ is "continuous". Even $f$ could reach $M$ at some point $x_0$, we cannot directly use it. So we only requires that for each $varepsilon >0$, find those $x$ s.t. $M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M$. So we have the following proof.



        Proof




        Let $x_0 in [a, b]$ be the point where $f(c) =M$ [this is possible, since $fin mathcal C[a,b]$]. For each $epsilon > 0$, by the definition of continuity, there exists an interval $[c,d]$ that contains $x_0$ s.t. $$ xin [c,d] implies M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M. $$ Thus $$ (d-c)^{1/n} (M-varepsilon) leqslant left(int_c^d f^nright)^{1/n}leqslant left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M, $$ and then $$M-varepsilon leqslant varliminf_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant varlimsup_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M. $$ Now let $varepsilon to 0^+$, then the upper limit and the lower limit are equal to $M$, hence the limit equation.




        Remark



        Technically, this is actually not an application of the squeezing theorem [the end of the inequality chains are not the same], but the idea is similar. If no tools of upper/lower limits are allowed, then the whole proof could be completed in $varepsilon$-$N$ format.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Nov 30 '18 at 9:05

























        answered Nov 30 '18 at 8:50









        xbhxbh

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