Limit of integral expression approaches maximum of function [duplicate]
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This question already has an answer here:
Finding $limlimits_{n rightarrow infty}left(int_0^1(f(x))^n,mathrm dxright)^frac{1}{n}$ for continuous $f:[0,1]to[0,infty)$ [duplicate]
2 answers
So I've been trying to find a solution for this all afternoon, but haven't found a good place to start:
Prove that if $f:[a,b]tomathbf{R}^+$ is a continuous function with maximum value $M$, then
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}left(int_a^b f(x)^n,dxright)^{1/n} = M
$$
Here are some of the paths I've considered, though none have been very successful:
(1) Considering the sequence of functions for all increasing integer $n$ and trying to show that the sequence converges. We've had plenty of work on converging sequences, but with the integral expression, I am not sure how to simplify.
(2) Showing that that sequence is increasing (again, how?) and then showing there to be a supremum at $M$. I'm not sure how the maximum of the function arrives in this problem.
(3) Mean value theorems for integrals
If anyone could give me a solid place to start or perhaps point me to a place where this question has been asked before (I can't seem to find it), I would be very grateful.
real-analysis integration limits proof-writing
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marked as duplicate by RRL
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Nov 30 '18 at 15:20
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
This question already has an answer here:
Finding $limlimits_{n rightarrow infty}left(int_0^1(f(x))^n,mathrm dxright)^frac{1}{n}$ for continuous $f:[0,1]to[0,infty)$ [duplicate]
2 answers
So I've been trying to find a solution for this all afternoon, but haven't found a good place to start:
Prove that if $f:[a,b]tomathbf{R}^+$ is a continuous function with maximum value $M$, then
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}left(int_a^b f(x)^n,dxright)^{1/n} = M
$$
Here are some of the paths I've considered, though none have been very successful:
(1) Considering the sequence of functions for all increasing integer $n$ and trying to show that the sequence converges. We've had plenty of work on converging sequences, but with the integral expression, I am not sure how to simplify.
(2) Showing that that sequence is increasing (again, how?) and then showing there to be a supremum at $M$. I'm not sure how the maximum of the function arrives in this problem.
(3) Mean value theorems for integrals
If anyone could give me a solid place to start or perhaps point me to a place where this question has been asked before (I can't seem to find it), I would be very grateful.
real-analysis integration limits proof-writing
$endgroup$
marked as duplicate by RRL
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Nov 30 '18 at 15:20
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
$begingroup$
Completely believable, but I've never seen this fact in my 30 years in calculus. Interesting.
$endgroup$
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 3:52
1
$begingroup$
Hint: Try squeezing it: For example, $f(x) leq M$, so $int_a^bf(x)^n , dx leq (b-a)M^n$.
$endgroup$
– Anurag A
Nov 30 '18 at 3:53
1
$begingroup$
Note that the expression $left(int_a^bf(x)^nright)^frac{1}{n}$ is the definition of the $L^p$ norm of the function $f$ (since it is positive). For $nrightarrowinfty$ this converges to the max-norm.
$endgroup$
– obscurans
Nov 30 '18 at 3:55
$begingroup$
@AnuragA I see how this gives you an upper bound for the limit, but how do you go about squeezing it from below? or show the sequence is increasing?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:12
$begingroup$
@obscurans can you point me to a proof of this fact?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:19
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
This question already has an answer here:
Finding $limlimits_{n rightarrow infty}left(int_0^1(f(x))^n,mathrm dxright)^frac{1}{n}$ for continuous $f:[0,1]to[0,infty)$ [duplicate]
2 answers
So I've been trying to find a solution for this all afternoon, but haven't found a good place to start:
Prove that if $f:[a,b]tomathbf{R}^+$ is a continuous function with maximum value $M$, then
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}left(int_a^b f(x)^n,dxright)^{1/n} = M
$$
Here are some of the paths I've considered, though none have been very successful:
(1) Considering the sequence of functions for all increasing integer $n$ and trying to show that the sequence converges. We've had plenty of work on converging sequences, but with the integral expression, I am not sure how to simplify.
(2) Showing that that sequence is increasing (again, how?) and then showing there to be a supremum at $M$. I'm not sure how the maximum of the function arrives in this problem.
(3) Mean value theorems for integrals
If anyone could give me a solid place to start or perhaps point me to a place where this question has been asked before (I can't seem to find it), I would be very grateful.
real-analysis integration limits proof-writing
$endgroup$
This question already has an answer here:
Finding $limlimits_{n rightarrow infty}left(int_0^1(f(x))^n,mathrm dxright)^frac{1}{n}$ for continuous $f:[0,1]to[0,infty)$ [duplicate]
2 answers
So I've been trying to find a solution for this all afternoon, but haven't found a good place to start:
Prove that if $f:[a,b]tomathbf{R}^+$ is a continuous function with maximum value $M$, then
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}left(int_a^b f(x)^n,dxright)^{1/n} = M
$$
Here are some of the paths I've considered, though none have been very successful:
(1) Considering the sequence of functions for all increasing integer $n$ and trying to show that the sequence converges. We've had plenty of work on converging sequences, but with the integral expression, I am not sure how to simplify.
(2) Showing that that sequence is increasing (again, how?) and then showing there to be a supremum at $M$. I'm not sure how the maximum of the function arrives in this problem.
(3) Mean value theorems for integrals
If anyone could give me a solid place to start or perhaps point me to a place where this question has been asked before (I can't seem to find it), I would be very grateful.
This question already has an answer here:
Finding $limlimits_{n rightarrow infty}left(int_0^1(f(x))^n,mathrm dxright)^frac{1}{n}$ for continuous $f:[0,1]to[0,infty)$ [duplicate]
2 answers
real-analysis integration limits proof-writing
real-analysis integration limits proof-writing
asked Nov 30 '18 at 3:48
user474084user474084
344
344
marked as duplicate by RRL
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Nov 30 '18 at 15:20
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
marked as duplicate by RRL
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Nov 30 '18 at 15:20
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
$begingroup$
Completely believable, but I've never seen this fact in my 30 years in calculus. Interesting.
$endgroup$
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 3:52
1
$begingroup$
Hint: Try squeezing it: For example, $f(x) leq M$, so $int_a^bf(x)^n , dx leq (b-a)M^n$.
$endgroup$
– Anurag A
Nov 30 '18 at 3:53
1
$begingroup$
Note that the expression $left(int_a^bf(x)^nright)^frac{1}{n}$ is the definition of the $L^p$ norm of the function $f$ (since it is positive). For $nrightarrowinfty$ this converges to the max-norm.
$endgroup$
– obscurans
Nov 30 '18 at 3:55
$begingroup$
@AnuragA I see how this gives you an upper bound for the limit, but how do you go about squeezing it from below? or show the sequence is increasing?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:12
$begingroup$
@obscurans can you point me to a proof of this fact?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:19
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Completely believable, but I've never seen this fact in my 30 years in calculus. Interesting.
$endgroup$
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 3:52
1
$begingroup$
Hint: Try squeezing it: For example, $f(x) leq M$, so $int_a^bf(x)^n , dx leq (b-a)M^n$.
$endgroup$
– Anurag A
Nov 30 '18 at 3:53
1
$begingroup$
Note that the expression $left(int_a^bf(x)^nright)^frac{1}{n}$ is the definition of the $L^p$ norm of the function $f$ (since it is positive). For $nrightarrowinfty$ this converges to the max-norm.
$endgroup$
– obscurans
Nov 30 '18 at 3:55
$begingroup$
@AnuragA I see how this gives you an upper bound for the limit, but how do you go about squeezing it from below? or show the sequence is increasing?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:12
$begingroup$
@obscurans can you point me to a proof of this fact?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:19
$begingroup$
Completely believable, but I've never seen this fact in my 30 years in calculus. Interesting.
$endgroup$
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 3:52
$begingroup$
Completely believable, but I've never seen this fact in my 30 years in calculus. Interesting.
$endgroup$
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 3:52
1
1
$begingroup$
Hint: Try squeezing it: For example, $f(x) leq M$, so $int_a^bf(x)^n , dx leq (b-a)M^n$.
$endgroup$
– Anurag A
Nov 30 '18 at 3:53
$begingroup$
Hint: Try squeezing it: For example, $f(x) leq M$, so $int_a^bf(x)^n , dx leq (b-a)M^n$.
$endgroup$
– Anurag A
Nov 30 '18 at 3:53
1
1
$begingroup$
Note that the expression $left(int_a^bf(x)^nright)^frac{1}{n}$ is the definition of the $L^p$ norm of the function $f$ (since it is positive). For $nrightarrowinfty$ this converges to the max-norm.
$endgroup$
– obscurans
Nov 30 '18 at 3:55
$begingroup$
Note that the expression $left(int_a^bf(x)^nright)^frac{1}{n}$ is the definition of the $L^p$ norm of the function $f$ (since it is positive). For $nrightarrowinfty$ this converges to the max-norm.
$endgroup$
– obscurans
Nov 30 '18 at 3:55
$begingroup$
@AnuragA I see how this gives you an upper bound for the limit, but how do you go about squeezing it from below? or show the sequence is increasing?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:12
$begingroup$
@AnuragA I see how this gives you an upper bound for the limit, but how do you go about squeezing it from below? or show the sequence is increasing?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:12
$begingroup$
@obscurans can you point me to a proof of this fact?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:19
$begingroup$
@obscurans can you point me to a proof of this fact?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:19
|
show 2 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
If you have done the following question, then you probably know how to do the one in the post:
Given $m$ positive real numbers $a_1, dots, a_n$, prove that
$$
lim_{nto +infty} (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} = max_{j} a_j.
$$
Proof
The trick is to use the squeeze theorem, and note that $$ max_j a_j leqslant (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} leqslant m^{1/n} a_j. $$ Now let $n to +infty$, and note that $lim_n m^{1/n} = 1$.
Using the similar trick, we could do the original one. The problem is $f$ is "continuous". Even $f$ could reach $M$ at some point $x_0$, we cannot directly use it. So we only requires that for each $varepsilon >0$, find those $x$ s.t. $M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M$. So we have the following proof.
Proof
Let $x_0 in [a, b]$ be the point where $f(c) =M$ [this is possible, since $fin mathcal C[a,b]$]. For each $epsilon > 0$, by the definition of continuity, there exists an interval $[c,d]$ that contains $x_0$ s.t. $$ xin [c,d] implies M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M. $$ Thus $$ (d-c)^{1/n} (M-varepsilon) leqslant left(int_c^d f^nright)^{1/n}leqslant left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M, $$ and then $$M-varepsilon leqslant varliminf_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant varlimsup_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M. $$ Now let $varepsilon to 0^+$, then the upper limit and the lower limit are equal to $M$, hence the limit equation.
Remark
Technically, this is actually not an application of the squeezing theorem [the end of the inequality chains are not the same], but the idea is similar. If no tools of upper/lower limits are allowed, then the whole proof could be completed in $varepsilon$-$N$ format.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
If you have done the following question, then you probably know how to do the one in the post:
Given $m$ positive real numbers $a_1, dots, a_n$, prove that
$$
lim_{nto +infty} (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} = max_{j} a_j.
$$
Proof
The trick is to use the squeeze theorem, and note that $$ max_j a_j leqslant (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} leqslant m^{1/n} a_j. $$ Now let $n to +infty$, and note that $lim_n m^{1/n} = 1$.
Using the similar trick, we could do the original one. The problem is $f$ is "continuous". Even $f$ could reach $M$ at some point $x_0$, we cannot directly use it. So we only requires that for each $varepsilon >0$, find those $x$ s.t. $M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M$. So we have the following proof.
Proof
Let $x_0 in [a, b]$ be the point where $f(c) =M$ [this is possible, since $fin mathcal C[a,b]$]. For each $epsilon > 0$, by the definition of continuity, there exists an interval $[c,d]$ that contains $x_0$ s.t. $$ xin [c,d] implies M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M. $$ Thus $$ (d-c)^{1/n} (M-varepsilon) leqslant left(int_c^d f^nright)^{1/n}leqslant left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M, $$ and then $$M-varepsilon leqslant varliminf_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant varlimsup_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M. $$ Now let $varepsilon to 0^+$, then the upper limit and the lower limit are equal to $M$, hence the limit equation.
Remark
Technically, this is actually not an application of the squeezing theorem [the end of the inequality chains are not the same], but the idea is similar. If no tools of upper/lower limits are allowed, then the whole proof could be completed in $varepsilon$-$N$ format.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you have done the following question, then you probably know how to do the one in the post:
Given $m$ positive real numbers $a_1, dots, a_n$, prove that
$$
lim_{nto +infty} (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} = max_{j} a_j.
$$
Proof
The trick is to use the squeeze theorem, and note that $$ max_j a_j leqslant (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} leqslant m^{1/n} a_j. $$ Now let $n to +infty$, and note that $lim_n m^{1/n} = 1$.
Using the similar trick, we could do the original one. The problem is $f$ is "continuous". Even $f$ could reach $M$ at some point $x_0$, we cannot directly use it. So we only requires that for each $varepsilon >0$, find those $x$ s.t. $M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M$. So we have the following proof.
Proof
Let $x_0 in [a, b]$ be the point where $f(c) =M$ [this is possible, since $fin mathcal C[a,b]$]. For each $epsilon > 0$, by the definition of continuity, there exists an interval $[c,d]$ that contains $x_0$ s.t. $$ xin [c,d] implies M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M. $$ Thus $$ (d-c)^{1/n} (M-varepsilon) leqslant left(int_c^d f^nright)^{1/n}leqslant left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M, $$ and then $$M-varepsilon leqslant varliminf_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant varlimsup_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M. $$ Now let $varepsilon to 0^+$, then the upper limit and the lower limit are equal to $M$, hence the limit equation.
Remark
Technically, this is actually not an application of the squeezing theorem [the end of the inequality chains are not the same], but the idea is similar. If no tools of upper/lower limits are allowed, then the whole proof could be completed in $varepsilon$-$N$ format.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you have done the following question, then you probably know how to do the one in the post:
Given $m$ positive real numbers $a_1, dots, a_n$, prove that
$$
lim_{nto +infty} (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} = max_{j} a_j.
$$
Proof
The trick is to use the squeeze theorem, and note that $$ max_j a_j leqslant (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} leqslant m^{1/n} a_j. $$ Now let $n to +infty$, and note that $lim_n m^{1/n} = 1$.
Using the similar trick, we could do the original one. The problem is $f$ is "continuous". Even $f$ could reach $M$ at some point $x_0$, we cannot directly use it. So we only requires that for each $varepsilon >0$, find those $x$ s.t. $M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M$. So we have the following proof.
Proof
Let $x_0 in [a, b]$ be the point where $f(c) =M$ [this is possible, since $fin mathcal C[a,b]$]. For each $epsilon > 0$, by the definition of continuity, there exists an interval $[c,d]$ that contains $x_0$ s.t. $$ xin [c,d] implies M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M. $$ Thus $$ (d-c)^{1/n} (M-varepsilon) leqslant left(int_c^d f^nright)^{1/n}leqslant left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M, $$ and then $$M-varepsilon leqslant varliminf_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant varlimsup_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M. $$ Now let $varepsilon to 0^+$, then the upper limit and the lower limit are equal to $M$, hence the limit equation.
Remark
Technically, this is actually not an application of the squeezing theorem [the end of the inequality chains are not the same], but the idea is similar. If no tools of upper/lower limits are allowed, then the whole proof could be completed in $varepsilon$-$N$ format.
$endgroup$
If you have done the following question, then you probably know how to do the one in the post:
Given $m$ positive real numbers $a_1, dots, a_n$, prove that
$$
lim_{nto +infty} (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} = max_{j} a_j.
$$
Proof
The trick is to use the squeeze theorem, and note that $$ max_j a_j leqslant (a_1^n + dots + a_m^n)^{1/n} leqslant m^{1/n} a_j. $$ Now let $n to +infty$, and note that $lim_n m^{1/n} = 1$.
Using the similar trick, we could do the original one. The problem is $f$ is "continuous". Even $f$ could reach $M$ at some point $x_0$, we cannot directly use it. So we only requires that for each $varepsilon >0$, find those $x$ s.t. $M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M$. So we have the following proof.
Proof
Let $x_0 in [a, b]$ be the point where $f(c) =M$ [this is possible, since $fin mathcal C[a,b]$]. For each $epsilon > 0$, by the definition of continuity, there exists an interval $[c,d]$ that contains $x_0$ s.t. $$ xin [c,d] implies M-varepsilon leqslant f(x) leqslant M. $$ Thus $$ (d-c)^{1/n} (M-varepsilon) leqslant left(int_c^d f^nright)^{1/n}leqslant left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M, $$ and then $$M-varepsilon leqslant varliminf_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant varlimsup_n left(int_a^b f^nright)^{1/n} leqslant M. $$ Now let $varepsilon to 0^+$, then the upper limit and the lower limit are equal to $M$, hence the limit equation.
Remark
Technically, this is actually not an application of the squeezing theorem [the end of the inequality chains are not the same], but the idea is similar. If no tools of upper/lower limits are allowed, then the whole proof could be completed in $varepsilon$-$N$ format.
edited Nov 30 '18 at 9:05
answered Nov 30 '18 at 8:50
xbhxbh
6,0581522
6,0581522
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Completely believable, but I've never seen this fact in my 30 years in calculus. Interesting.
$endgroup$
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 3:52
1
$begingroup$
Hint: Try squeezing it: For example, $f(x) leq M$, so $int_a^bf(x)^n , dx leq (b-a)M^n$.
$endgroup$
– Anurag A
Nov 30 '18 at 3:53
1
$begingroup$
Note that the expression $left(int_a^bf(x)^nright)^frac{1}{n}$ is the definition of the $L^p$ norm of the function $f$ (since it is positive). For $nrightarrowinfty$ this converges to the max-norm.
$endgroup$
– obscurans
Nov 30 '18 at 3:55
$begingroup$
@AnuragA I see how this gives you an upper bound for the limit, but how do you go about squeezing it from below? or show the sequence is increasing?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:12
$begingroup$
@obscurans can you point me to a proof of this fact?
$endgroup$
– user474084
Nov 30 '18 at 4:19