Is ipsum/ipsa/ipse a third person pronoun, or can it serve other functions?
This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:
How would you say “same thing” in Latin?
In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"
Thanks in advance.
pronomina personal-pronouns
edited Apr 8 at 22:05
Joonas Ilmavirta♦
49.2k1271287
asked Apr 8 at 22:01
Sola GratiaSola Gratia
1483
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Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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add a comment |
This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:
How would you say “same thing” in Latin?
In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"
Thanks in advance.
pronomina personal-pronouns
edited Apr 8 at 22:05
Joonas Ilmavirta♦
49.2k1271287
asked Apr 8 at 22:01
Sola GratiaSola Gratia
1483
New contributor
Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:
How would you say “same thing” in Latin?
In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"
Thanks in advance.
pronomina personal-pronouns
edited Apr 8 at 22:05
Joonas Ilmavirta♦
49.2k1271287
asked Apr 8 at 22:01
Sola GratiaSola Gratia
1483
New contributor
Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:
How would you say “same thing” in Latin?
In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"
Thanks in advance.
pronomina personal-pronouns
pronomina personal-pronouns
edited Apr 8 at 22:05
Joonas Ilmavirta♦
49.2k1271287
asked Apr 8 at 22:01
Sola GratiaSola Gratia
1483
New contributor
Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Apr 8 at 22:05
Joonas Ilmavirta♦
49.2k1271287
asked Apr 8 at 22:01
Sola GratiaSola Gratia
1483
New contributor
Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Apr 8 at 22:05
Joonas Ilmavirta♦
49.2k1271287
edited Apr 8 at 22:05
Joonas Ilmavirta♦
49.2k1271287
edited Apr 8 at 22:05
Joonas Ilmavirta♦
49.2k1271287
49.2k1271287
asked Apr 8 at 22:01
Sola GratiaSola Gratia
1483
New contributor
Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Apr 8 at 22:01
Sola GratiaSola Gratia
1483
asked Apr 8 at 22:01
Sola GratiaSola Gratia
1483
1483
New contributor
Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
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As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.
Caesar ipse hoc dixit.
Caesar himself said this!
The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.
Ipse hoc aedificavi.
I built this myself!
Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.
Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.
answered Apr 8 at 23:04
DraconisDraconis
18.7k22576
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 9 at 0:47
add a comment |
The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
(For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)
Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.
It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.
answered Apr 8 at 22:02
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.2k1271287
1
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:06
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 8 at 22:08
1
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:09
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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active
oldest
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2 Answers
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As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.
Caesar ipse hoc dixit.
Caesar himself said this!
The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.
Ipse hoc aedificavi.
I built this myself!
Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.
Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.
answered Apr 8 at 23:04
DraconisDraconis
18.7k22576
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 9 at 0:47
add a comment |
As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.
Caesar ipse hoc dixit.
Caesar himself said this!
The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.
Ipse hoc aedificavi.
I built this myself!
Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.
Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.
answered Apr 8 at 23:04
DraconisDraconis
18.7k22576
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 9 at 0:47
add a comment |
As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.
Caesar ipse hoc dixit.
Caesar himself said this!
The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.
Ipse hoc aedificavi.
I built this myself!
Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.
Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.
answered Apr 8 at 23:04
DraconisDraconis
18.7k22576
As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.
Caesar ipse hoc dixit.
Caesar himself said this!
The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.
Ipse hoc aedificavi.
I built this myself!
Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.
Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.
answered Apr 8 at 23:04
DraconisDraconis
18.7k22576
answered Apr 8 at 23:04
DraconisDraconis
18.7k22576
answered Apr 8 at 23:04
DraconisDraconis
18.7k22576
answered Apr 8 at 23:04
DraconisDraconis
18.7k22576
18.7k22576
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 9 at 0:47
add a comment |
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 9 at 0:47
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 9 at 0:47
I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 9 at 0:47
add a comment |
The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
(For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)
Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.
It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.
answered Apr 8 at 22:02
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.2k1271287
1
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:06
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 8 at 22:08
1
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:09
add a comment |
The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
(For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)
Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.
It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.
answered Apr 8 at 22:02
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.2k1271287
1
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:06
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 8 at 22:08
1
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:09
add a comment |
The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
(For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)
Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.
It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.
answered Apr 8 at 22:02
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.2k1271287
The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
(For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)
Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.
It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.
answered Apr 8 at 22:02
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.2k1271287
edited Apr 9 at 0:44
answered Apr 8 at 22:02
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.2k1271287
answered Apr 8 at 22:02
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.2k1271287
answered Apr 8 at 22:02
Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta
49.2k1271287
49.2k1271287
1
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:06
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 8 at 22:08
1
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:09
add a comment |
1
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:06
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 8 at 22:08
1
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:09
1
1
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:06
That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:06
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 8 at 22:08
@SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!
– Joonas Ilmavirta♦
Apr 8 at 22:08
1
1
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:09
I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.
– Sola Gratia
Apr 8 at 22:09
add a comment |
Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Sola Gratia is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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