How to find minimum point of a hanging rope with two fixed known points $(x_1,y_1)$ and $(x_2,y_2)$ and known...












0












$begingroup$


I need to find minimum point of hanging rope with two known points $p_1, p_2$ (start and end point of the rope) and known rope length.



I want to model all rope shapes with different length and start and end point.



Do I have to use numerical methods?



Does it have any closed form solution?



Known $to L,(x_1,y_1), (x_2,y_2)$ then $a=$?



I use a general catenary equation like below:



$$
f(x)= acoshleft(frac {x-b}aright)+c\
L= asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
$$










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    0












    $begingroup$


    I need to find minimum point of hanging rope with two known points $p_1, p_2$ (start and end point of the rope) and known rope length.



    I want to model all rope shapes with different length and start and end point.



    Do I have to use numerical methods?



    Does it have any closed form solution?



    Known $to L,(x_1,y_1), (x_2,y_2)$ then $a=$?



    I use a general catenary equation like below:



    $$
    f(x)= acoshleft(frac {x-b}aright)+c\
    L= asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
    $$










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      0












      0








      0





      $begingroup$


      I need to find minimum point of hanging rope with two known points $p_1, p_2$ (start and end point of the rope) and known rope length.



      I want to model all rope shapes with different length and start and end point.



      Do I have to use numerical methods?



      Does it have any closed form solution?



      Known $to L,(x_1,y_1), (x_2,y_2)$ then $a=$?



      I use a general catenary equation like below:



      $$
      f(x)= acoshleft(frac {x-b}aright)+c\
      L= asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
      $$










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I need to find minimum point of hanging rope with two known points $p_1, p_2$ (start and end point of the rope) and known rope length.



      I want to model all rope shapes with different length and start and end point.



      Do I have to use numerical methods?



      Does it have any closed form solution?



      Known $to L,(x_1,y_1), (x_2,y_2)$ then $a=$?



      I use a general catenary equation like below:



      $$
      f(x)= acoshleft(frac {x-b}aright)+c\
      L= asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
      $$







      numerical-methods problem-solving






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Dec 25 '18 at 22:17







      Mahdi

















      asked Dec 24 '18 at 20:25









      MahdiMahdi

      11




      11






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          0












          $begingroup$

          Calling



          $$
          x_2-x_1 = h\
          y_2-y_1 = v
          $$



          we have



          $$
          v = acoshleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-acoshleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)\
          L = asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
          $$



          so after some trigonometric transformations we arrive at



          $$
          L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{x_2-x_1}{2a}right)
          $$



          so we have finally



          $$
          L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
          $$



          with this last equation we can determine the $a = a_0$ value using an iterative procedure.



          NOTE



          Calling now



          $$
          y(x) = y_0 + a_0coshleft(frac{x-x_0}{a_0}right)
          $$



          such that



          $$
          y(x_1) = y_1\
          y(x_2) = y_2
          $$



          The minimum point is obtained by solving for $x$



          $$
          y'(x) = 0
          $$



          so if $x_1 le x_0 le x_2$ follows



          $$
          min y(x) = y_0 + a_0
          $$



          otherwise



          $$
          min y(x) = min(y_1, y_2)
          $$



          Now, regarding the iterative process we have



          $$
          frac{L^2-v^2}{4a^2} = sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
          $$



          or



          $$
          C_0^2lambda^2=sinh^2lambda, lambda = frac{h}{2a}, C_0 = frac{sqrt{L^2-v^2}}{h}
          $$



          or



          $$
          C_0 lambda = sinh(lambda)
          $$



          which should be solved numerically.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 25 '18 at 16:09










          • $begingroup$
            Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 25 '18 at 22:20



















          0












          $begingroup$

          Starting from @Cesareo answer, considering
          $$L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)$$ let $x=frac{h}{2a}$ to make the equation
          $$frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}=frac{sinh^2(x) }{x^2}implies k=sqrt{frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}}=frac{sinh(x) }{x}$$



          Consider that you look for the zero of $$f(x)=frac{sinh(x) }{x}-k$$ It varies very quickly. Then, it would be better to look for the zero of
          $$g(x)=log left(frac{sinh (x)}{x}right)-log(k)$$ which is much better conditioned.



          Edit



          To get a starting value $x_0$ for Newton method, using Padé approximant built at $x=0$
          $$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{7 x^2+60}{60-3 x^2} implies x_0=frac{2 sqrt{15} sqrt{k-1}}{sqrt{3 k+7}}$$ which would be good for $1 leq k leq 3$.



          For larger values of $k$
          $$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{e^x}{2 x}implies x_0=-W_{-1}left(-frac{1}{2 k}right)$$ where appears Lambert function.



          The table below shows some results
          $$left(
          begin{array}{ccc}
          k & x_0 & x \
          1.25 & 1.18125 & 1.18273 \
          1.50 & 1.61515 & 1.62213 \
          1.75 & 1.91663 & 1.93300 \
          2.00 & 2.14834 & 2.17732 \
          2.25 & 2.33550 & 2.37963 \
          2.50 & 2.49136 & 2.55265 \
          2.75 & 2.62398 & 2.70395 \
          3.00 & 2.73861 & 2.83845 \
          & & \
          3.00 & 2.83315 & 2.83845 \
          3.25 & 2.95545 & 2.95952 \
          3.50 & 3.06642 & 3.06962 \
          3.75 & 3.16801 & 3.17058 \
          4.00 & 3.26169 & 3.26380 \
          4.25 & 3.34861 & 3.35037 \
          4.50 & 3.42970 & 3.43117 \
          4.75 & 3.50567 & 3.50693 \
          5.00 & 3.57715 & 3.57823
          end{array}
          right)$$



          Edit



          Looking at this question (which I did not remember - problem of age, I guess), I noticed that I was able to generate a quite good estimates building at $x=0$ the $[3,4]$ Padé approximant of $sinh(x)-k x$.



          From this, I considered building the $[3,2n]$ Padé approximants which write
          $$sinh(x)-k x=x frac{(1-k)+a^{(n)}_1 x^2 }{1+sum_{m=1}^n b_m x^{2m} }$$ leading to an approximate solution
          $$x=sqrt{frac {k-1}{a^{(n)}_1 }}$$ For sure, this was done using a CAS. The longest result able to fit on a single line corresponds to $n=6$ and the result is
          $$x=frac{sqrt{6} sqrt{(k-1)(105 k^5+60705 k^4+1365738 k^3+5507466 k^2+5665509 k+1414477 )}}{sqrt{3 k^6+6120 k^5+307017 k^4+2586544 k^3+5952621 k^2+4301640
          k+860055}}$$
          which seems to be very good even for large values of $k$ (checked up to $k=500$).






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 26 '18 at 19:19












          • $begingroup$
            @Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
            $endgroup$
            – Claude Leibovici
            Dec 27 '18 at 2:46












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          2 Answers
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          2 Answers
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          active

          oldest

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          active

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          active

          oldest

          votes









          0












          $begingroup$

          Calling



          $$
          x_2-x_1 = h\
          y_2-y_1 = v
          $$



          we have



          $$
          v = acoshleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-acoshleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)\
          L = asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
          $$



          so after some trigonometric transformations we arrive at



          $$
          L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{x_2-x_1}{2a}right)
          $$



          so we have finally



          $$
          L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
          $$



          with this last equation we can determine the $a = a_0$ value using an iterative procedure.



          NOTE



          Calling now



          $$
          y(x) = y_0 + a_0coshleft(frac{x-x_0}{a_0}right)
          $$



          such that



          $$
          y(x_1) = y_1\
          y(x_2) = y_2
          $$



          The minimum point is obtained by solving for $x$



          $$
          y'(x) = 0
          $$



          so if $x_1 le x_0 le x_2$ follows



          $$
          min y(x) = y_0 + a_0
          $$



          otherwise



          $$
          min y(x) = min(y_1, y_2)
          $$



          Now, regarding the iterative process we have



          $$
          frac{L^2-v^2}{4a^2} = sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
          $$



          or



          $$
          C_0^2lambda^2=sinh^2lambda, lambda = frac{h}{2a}, C_0 = frac{sqrt{L^2-v^2}}{h}
          $$



          or



          $$
          C_0 lambda = sinh(lambda)
          $$



          which should be solved numerically.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 25 '18 at 16:09










          • $begingroup$
            Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 25 '18 at 22:20
















          0












          $begingroup$

          Calling



          $$
          x_2-x_1 = h\
          y_2-y_1 = v
          $$



          we have



          $$
          v = acoshleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-acoshleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)\
          L = asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
          $$



          so after some trigonometric transformations we arrive at



          $$
          L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{x_2-x_1}{2a}right)
          $$



          so we have finally



          $$
          L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
          $$



          with this last equation we can determine the $a = a_0$ value using an iterative procedure.



          NOTE



          Calling now



          $$
          y(x) = y_0 + a_0coshleft(frac{x-x_0}{a_0}right)
          $$



          such that



          $$
          y(x_1) = y_1\
          y(x_2) = y_2
          $$



          The minimum point is obtained by solving for $x$



          $$
          y'(x) = 0
          $$



          so if $x_1 le x_0 le x_2$ follows



          $$
          min y(x) = y_0 + a_0
          $$



          otherwise



          $$
          min y(x) = min(y_1, y_2)
          $$



          Now, regarding the iterative process we have



          $$
          frac{L^2-v^2}{4a^2} = sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
          $$



          or



          $$
          C_0^2lambda^2=sinh^2lambda, lambda = frac{h}{2a}, C_0 = frac{sqrt{L^2-v^2}}{h}
          $$



          or



          $$
          C_0 lambda = sinh(lambda)
          $$



          which should be solved numerically.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 25 '18 at 16:09










          • $begingroup$
            Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 25 '18 at 22:20














          0












          0








          0





          $begingroup$

          Calling



          $$
          x_2-x_1 = h\
          y_2-y_1 = v
          $$



          we have



          $$
          v = acoshleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-acoshleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)\
          L = asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
          $$



          so after some trigonometric transformations we arrive at



          $$
          L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{x_2-x_1}{2a}right)
          $$



          so we have finally



          $$
          L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
          $$



          with this last equation we can determine the $a = a_0$ value using an iterative procedure.



          NOTE



          Calling now



          $$
          y(x) = y_0 + a_0coshleft(frac{x-x_0}{a_0}right)
          $$



          such that



          $$
          y(x_1) = y_1\
          y(x_2) = y_2
          $$



          The minimum point is obtained by solving for $x$



          $$
          y'(x) = 0
          $$



          so if $x_1 le x_0 le x_2$ follows



          $$
          min y(x) = y_0 + a_0
          $$



          otherwise



          $$
          min y(x) = min(y_1, y_2)
          $$



          Now, regarding the iterative process we have



          $$
          frac{L^2-v^2}{4a^2} = sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
          $$



          or



          $$
          C_0^2lambda^2=sinh^2lambda, lambda = frac{h}{2a}, C_0 = frac{sqrt{L^2-v^2}}{h}
          $$



          or



          $$
          C_0 lambda = sinh(lambda)
          $$



          which should be solved numerically.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Calling



          $$
          x_2-x_1 = h\
          y_2-y_1 = v
          $$



          we have



          $$
          v = acoshleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-acoshleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)\
          L = asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
          $$



          so after some trigonometric transformations we arrive at



          $$
          L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{x_2-x_1}{2a}right)
          $$



          so we have finally



          $$
          L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
          $$



          with this last equation we can determine the $a = a_0$ value using an iterative procedure.



          NOTE



          Calling now



          $$
          y(x) = y_0 + a_0coshleft(frac{x-x_0}{a_0}right)
          $$



          such that



          $$
          y(x_1) = y_1\
          y(x_2) = y_2
          $$



          The minimum point is obtained by solving for $x$



          $$
          y'(x) = 0
          $$



          so if $x_1 le x_0 le x_2$ follows



          $$
          min y(x) = y_0 + a_0
          $$



          otherwise



          $$
          min y(x) = min(y_1, y_2)
          $$



          Now, regarding the iterative process we have



          $$
          frac{L^2-v^2}{4a^2} = sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
          $$



          or



          $$
          C_0^2lambda^2=sinh^2lambda, lambda = frac{h}{2a}, C_0 = frac{sqrt{L^2-v^2}}{h}
          $$



          or



          $$
          C_0 lambda = sinh(lambda)
          $$



          which should be solved numerically.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Dec 25 '18 at 22:52

























          answered Dec 25 '18 at 9:56









          CesareoCesareo

          10.1k3518




          10.1k3518












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 25 '18 at 16:09










          • $begingroup$
            Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 25 '18 at 22:20


















          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 25 '18 at 16:09










          • $begingroup$
            Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 25 '18 at 22:20
















          $begingroup$
          Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
          $endgroup$
          – Mahdi
          Dec 25 '18 at 16:09




          $begingroup$
          Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
          $endgroup$
          – Mahdi
          Dec 25 '18 at 16:09












          $begingroup$
          Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
          $endgroup$
          – Mahdi
          Dec 25 '18 at 22:20




          $begingroup$
          Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
          $endgroup$
          – Mahdi
          Dec 25 '18 at 22:20











          0












          $begingroup$

          Starting from @Cesareo answer, considering
          $$L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)$$ let $x=frac{h}{2a}$ to make the equation
          $$frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}=frac{sinh^2(x) }{x^2}implies k=sqrt{frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}}=frac{sinh(x) }{x}$$



          Consider that you look for the zero of $$f(x)=frac{sinh(x) }{x}-k$$ It varies very quickly. Then, it would be better to look for the zero of
          $$g(x)=log left(frac{sinh (x)}{x}right)-log(k)$$ which is much better conditioned.



          Edit



          To get a starting value $x_0$ for Newton method, using Padé approximant built at $x=0$
          $$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{7 x^2+60}{60-3 x^2} implies x_0=frac{2 sqrt{15} sqrt{k-1}}{sqrt{3 k+7}}$$ which would be good for $1 leq k leq 3$.



          For larger values of $k$
          $$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{e^x}{2 x}implies x_0=-W_{-1}left(-frac{1}{2 k}right)$$ where appears Lambert function.



          The table below shows some results
          $$left(
          begin{array}{ccc}
          k & x_0 & x \
          1.25 & 1.18125 & 1.18273 \
          1.50 & 1.61515 & 1.62213 \
          1.75 & 1.91663 & 1.93300 \
          2.00 & 2.14834 & 2.17732 \
          2.25 & 2.33550 & 2.37963 \
          2.50 & 2.49136 & 2.55265 \
          2.75 & 2.62398 & 2.70395 \
          3.00 & 2.73861 & 2.83845 \
          & & \
          3.00 & 2.83315 & 2.83845 \
          3.25 & 2.95545 & 2.95952 \
          3.50 & 3.06642 & 3.06962 \
          3.75 & 3.16801 & 3.17058 \
          4.00 & 3.26169 & 3.26380 \
          4.25 & 3.34861 & 3.35037 \
          4.50 & 3.42970 & 3.43117 \
          4.75 & 3.50567 & 3.50693 \
          5.00 & 3.57715 & 3.57823
          end{array}
          right)$$



          Edit



          Looking at this question (which I did not remember - problem of age, I guess), I noticed that I was able to generate a quite good estimates building at $x=0$ the $[3,4]$ Padé approximant of $sinh(x)-k x$.



          From this, I considered building the $[3,2n]$ Padé approximants which write
          $$sinh(x)-k x=x frac{(1-k)+a^{(n)}_1 x^2 }{1+sum_{m=1}^n b_m x^{2m} }$$ leading to an approximate solution
          $$x=sqrt{frac {k-1}{a^{(n)}_1 }}$$ For sure, this was done using a CAS. The longest result able to fit on a single line corresponds to $n=6$ and the result is
          $$x=frac{sqrt{6} sqrt{(k-1)(105 k^5+60705 k^4+1365738 k^3+5507466 k^2+5665509 k+1414477 )}}{sqrt{3 k^6+6120 k^5+307017 k^4+2586544 k^3+5952621 k^2+4301640
          k+860055}}$$
          which seems to be very good even for large values of $k$ (checked up to $k=500$).






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 26 '18 at 19:19












          • $begingroup$
            @Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
            $endgroup$
            – Claude Leibovici
            Dec 27 '18 at 2:46
















          0












          $begingroup$

          Starting from @Cesareo answer, considering
          $$L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)$$ let $x=frac{h}{2a}$ to make the equation
          $$frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}=frac{sinh^2(x) }{x^2}implies k=sqrt{frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}}=frac{sinh(x) }{x}$$



          Consider that you look for the zero of $$f(x)=frac{sinh(x) }{x}-k$$ It varies very quickly. Then, it would be better to look for the zero of
          $$g(x)=log left(frac{sinh (x)}{x}right)-log(k)$$ which is much better conditioned.



          Edit



          To get a starting value $x_0$ for Newton method, using Padé approximant built at $x=0$
          $$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{7 x^2+60}{60-3 x^2} implies x_0=frac{2 sqrt{15} sqrt{k-1}}{sqrt{3 k+7}}$$ which would be good for $1 leq k leq 3$.



          For larger values of $k$
          $$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{e^x}{2 x}implies x_0=-W_{-1}left(-frac{1}{2 k}right)$$ where appears Lambert function.



          The table below shows some results
          $$left(
          begin{array}{ccc}
          k & x_0 & x \
          1.25 & 1.18125 & 1.18273 \
          1.50 & 1.61515 & 1.62213 \
          1.75 & 1.91663 & 1.93300 \
          2.00 & 2.14834 & 2.17732 \
          2.25 & 2.33550 & 2.37963 \
          2.50 & 2.49136 & 2.55265 \
          2.75 & 2.62398 & 2.70395 \
          3.00 & 2.73861 & 2.83845 \
          & & \
          3.00 & 2.83315 & 2.83845 \
          3.25 & 2.95545 & 2.95952 \
          3.50 & 3.06642 & 3.06962 \
          3.75 & 3.16801 & 3.17058 \
          4.00 & 3.26169 & 3.26380 \
          4.25 & 3.34861 & 3.35037 \
          4.50 & 3.42970 & 3.43117 \
          4.75 & 3.50567 & 3.50693 \
          5.00 & 3.57715 & 3.57823
          end{array}
          right)$$



          Edit



          Looking at this question (which I did not remember - problem of age, I guess), I noticed that I was able to generate a quite good estimates building at $x=0$ the $[3,4]$ Padé approximant of $sinh(x)-k x$.



          From this, I considered building the $[3,2n]$ Padé approximants which write
          $$sinh(x)-k x=x frac{(1-k)+a^{(n)}_1 x^2 }{1+sum_{m=1}^n b_m x^{2m} }$$ leading to an approximate solution
          $$x=sqrt{frac {k-1}{a^{(n)}_1 }}$$ For sure, this was done using a CAS. The longest result able to fit on a single line corresponds to $n=6$ and the result is
          $$x=frac{sqrt{6} sqrt{(k-1)(105 k^5+60705 k^4+1365738 k^3+5507466 k^2+5665509 k+1414477 )}}{sqrt{3 k^6+6120 k^5+307017 k^4+2586544 k^3+5952621 k^2+4301640
          k+860055}}$$
          which seems to be very good even for large values of $k$ (checked up to $k=500$).






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 26 '18 at 19:19












          • $begingroup$
            @Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
            $endgroup$
            – Claude Leibovici
            Dec 27 '18 at 2:46














          0












          0








          0





          $begingroup$

          Starting from @Cesareo answer, considering
          $$L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)$$ let $x=frac{h}{2a}$ to make the equation
          $$frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}=frac{sinh^2(x) }{x^2}implies k=sqrt{frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}}=frac{sinh(x) }{x}$$



          Consider that you look for the zero of $$f(x)=frac{sinh(x) }{x}-k$$ It varies very quickly. Then, it would be better to look for the zero of
          $$g(x)=log left(frac{sinh (x)}{x}right)-log(k)$$ which is much better conditioned.



          Edit



          To get a starting value $x_0$ for Newton method, using Padé approximant built at $x=0$
          $$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{7 x^2+60}{60-3 x^2} implies x_0=frac{2 sqrt{15} sqrt{k-1}}{sqrt{3 k+7}}$$ which would be good for $1 leq k leq 3$.



          For larger values of $k$
          $$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{e^x}{2 x}implies x_0=-W_{-1}left(-frac{1}{2 k}right)$$ where appears Lambert function.



          The table below shows some results
          $$left(
          begin{array}{ccc}
          k & x_0 & x \
          1.25 & 1.18125 & 1.18273 \
          1.50 & 1.61515 & 1.62213 \
          1.75 & 1.91663 & 1.93300 \
          2.00 & 2.14834 & 2.17732 \
          2.25 & 2.33550 & 2.37963 \
          2.50 & 2.49136 & 2.55265 \
          2.75 & 2.62398 & 2.70395 \
          3.00 & 2.73861 & 2.83845 \
          & & \
          3.00 & 2.83315 & 2.83845 \
          3.25 & 2.95545 & 2.95952 \
          3.50 & 3.06642 & 3.06962 \
          3.75 & 3.16801 & 3.17058 \
          4.00 & 3.26169 & 3.26380 \
          4.25 & 3.34861 & 3.35037 \
          4.50 & 3.42970 & 3.43117 \
          4.75 & 3.50567 & 3.50693 \
          5.00 & 3.57715 & 3.57823
          end{array}
          right)$$



          Edit



          Looking at this question (which I did not remember - problem of age, I guess), I noticed that I was able to generate a quite good estimates building at $x=0$ the $[3,4]$ Padé approximant of $sinh(x)-k x$.



          From this, I considered building the $[3,2n]$ Padé approximants which write
          $$sinh(x)-k x=x frac{(1-k)+a^{(n)}_1 x^2 }{1+sum_{m=1}^n b_m x^{2m} }$$ leading to an approximate solution
          $$x=sqrt{frac {k-1}{a^{(n)}_1 }}$$ For sure, this was done using a CAS. The longest result able to fit on a single line corresponds to $n=6$ and the result is
          $$x=frac{sqrt{6} sqrt{(k-1)(105 k^5+60705 k^4+1365738 k^3+5507466 k^2+5665509 k+1414477 )}}{sqrt{3 k^6+6120 k^5+307017 k^4+2586544 k^3+5952621 k^2+4301640
          k+860055}}$$
          which seems to be very good even for large values of $k$ (checked up to $k=500$).






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Starting from @Cesareo answer, considering
          $$L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)$$ let $x=frac{h}{2a}$ to make the equation
          $$frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}=frac{sinh^2(x) }{x^2}implies k=sqrt{frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}}=frac{sinh(x) }{x}$$



          Consider that you look for the zero of $$f(x)=frac{sinh(x) }{x}-k$$ It varies very quickly. Then, it would be better to look for the zero of
          $$g(x)=log left(frac{sinh (x)}{x}right)-log(k)$$ which is much better conditioned.



          Edit



          To get a starting value $x_0$ for Newton method, using Padé approximant built at $x=0$
          $$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{7 x^2+60}{60-3 x^2} implies x_0=frac{2 sqrt{15} sqrt{k-1}}{sqrt{3 k+7}}$$ which would be good for $1 leq k leq 3$.



          For larger values of $k$
          $$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{e^x}{2 x}implies x_0=-W_{-1}left(-frac{1}{2 k}right)$$ where appears Lambert function.



          The table below shows some results
          $$left(
          begin{array}{ccc}
          k & x_0 & x \
          1.25 & 1.18125 & 1.18273 \
          1.50 & 1.61515 & 1.62213 \
          1.75 & 1.91663 & 1.93300 \
          2.00 & 2.14834 & 2.17732 \
          2.25 & 2.33550 & 2.37963 \
          2.50 & 2.49136 & 2.55265 \
          2.75 & 2.62398 & 2.70395 \
          3.00 & 2.73861 & 2.83845 \
          & & \
          3.00 & 2.83315 & 2.83845 \
          3.25 & 2.95545 & 2.95952 \
          3.50 & 3.06642 & 3.06962 \
          3.75 & 3.16801 & 3.17058 \
          4.00 & 3.26169 & 3.26380 \
          4.25 & 3.34861 & 3.35037 \
          4.50 & 3.42970 & 3.43117 \
          4.75 & 3.50567 & 3.50693 \
          5.00 & 3.57715 & 3.57823
          end{array}
          right)$$



          Edit



          Looking at this question (which I did not remember - problem of age, I guess), I noticed that I was able to generate a quite good estimates building at $x=0$ the $[3,4]$ Padé approximant of $sinh(x)-k x$.



          From this, I considered building the $[3,2n]$ Padé approximants which write
          $$sinh(x)-k x=x frac{(1-k)+a^{(n)}_1 x^2 }{1+sum_{m=1}^n b_m x^{2m} }$$ leading to an approximate solution
          $$x=sqrt{frac {k-1}{a^{(n)}_1 }}$$ For sure, this was done using a CAS. The longest result able to fit on a single line corresponds to $n=6$ and the result is
          $$x=frac{sqrt{6} sqrt{(k-1)(105 k^5+60705 k^4+1365738 k^3+5507466 k^2+5665509 k+1414477 )}}{sqrt{3 k^6+6120 k^5+307017 k^4+2586544 k^3+5952621 k^2+4301640
          k+860055}}$$
          which seems to be very good even for large values of $k$ (checked up to $k=500$).







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Dec 27 '18 at 5:58

























          answered Dec 25 '18 at 16:03









          Claude LeiboviciClaude Leibovici

          126k1158135




          126k1158135












          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 26 '18 at 19:19












          • $begingroup$
            @Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
            $endgroup$
            – Claude Leibovici
            Dec 27 '18 at 2:46


















          • $begingroup$
            Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
            $endgroup$
            – Mahdi
            Dec 26 '18 at 19:19












          • $begingroup$
            @Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
            $endgroup$
            – Claude Leibovici
            Dec 27 '18 at 2:46
















          $begingroup$
          Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
          $endgroup$
          – Mahdi
          Dec 26 '18 at 19:19






          $begingroup$
          Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
          $endgroup$
          – Mahdi
          Dec 26 '18 at 19:19














          $begingroup$
          @Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
          $endgroup$
          – Claude Leibovici
          Dec 27 '18 at 2:46




          $begingroup$
          @Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
          $endgroup$
          – Claude Leibovici
          Dec 27 '18 at 2:46


















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