How to find minimum point of a hanging rope with two fixed known points $(x_1,y_1)$ and $(x_2,y_2)$ and known...
$begingroup$
I need to find minimum point of hanging rope with two known points $p_1, p_2$ (start and end point of the rope) and known rope length.
I want to model all rope shapes with different length and start and end point.
Do I have to use numerical methods?
Does it have any closed form solution?
Known $to L,(x_1,y_1), (x_2,y_2)$ then $a=$?
I use a general catenary equation like below:
$$
f(x)= acoshleft(frac {x-b}aright)+c\
L= asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
$$
numerical-methods problem-solving
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I need to find minimum point of hanging rope with two known points $p_1, p_2$ (start and end point of the rope) and known rope length.
I want to model all rope shapes with different length and start and end point.
Do I have to use numerical methods?
Does it have any closed form solution?
Known $to L,(x_1,y_1), (x_2,y_2)$ then $a=$?
I use a general catenary equation like below:
$$
f(x)= acoshleft(frac {x-b}aright)+c\
L= asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
$$
numerical-methods problem-solving
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I need to find minimum point of hanging rope with two known points $p_1, p_2$ (start and end point of the rope) and known rope length.
I want to model all rope shapes with different length and start and end point.
Do I have to use numerical methods?
Does it have any closed form solution?
Known $to L,(x_1,y_1), (x_2,y_2)$ then $a=$?
I use a general catenary equation like below:
$$
f(x)= acoshleft(frac {x-b}aright)+c\
L= asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
$$
numerical-methods problem-solving
$endgroup$
I need to find minimum point of hanging rope with two known points $p_1, p_2$ (start and end point of the rope) and known rope length.
I want to model all rope shapes with different length and start and end point.
Do I have to use numerical methods?
Does it have any closed form solution?
Known $to L,(x_1,y_1), (x_2,y_2)$ then $a=$?
I use a general catenary equation like below:
$$
f(x)= acoshleft(frac {x-b}aright)+c\
L= asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
$$
numerical-methods problem-solving
numerical-methods problem-solving
edited Dec 25 '18 at 22:17
Mahdi
asked Dec 24 '18 at 20:25
MahdiMahdi
11
11
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Calling
$$
x_2-x_1 = h\
y_2-y_1 = v
$$
we have
$$
v = acoshleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-acoshleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)\
L = asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
$$
so after some trigonometric transformations we arrive at
$$
L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{x_2-x_1}{2a}right)
$$
so we have finally
$$
L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
$$
with this last equation we can determine the $a = a_0$ value using an iterative procedure.
NOTE
Calling now
$$
y(x) = y_0 + a_0coshleft(frac{x-x_0}{a_0}right)
$$
such that
$$
y(x_1) = y_1\
y(x_2) = y_2
$$
The minimum point is obtained by solving for $x$
$$
y'(x) = 0
$$
so if $x_1 le x_0 le x_2$ follows
$$
min y(x) = y_0 + a_0
$$
otherwise
$$
min y(x) = min(y_1, y_2)
$$
Now, regarding the iterative process we have
$$
frac{L^2-v^2}{4a^2} = sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
$$
or
$$
C_0^2lambda^2=sinh^2lambda, lambda = frac{h}{2a}, C_0 = frac{sqrt{L^2-v^2}}{h}
$$
or
$$
C_0 lambda = sinh(lambda)
$$
which should be solved numerically.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 16:09
$begingroup$
Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 22:20
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Starting from @Cesareo answer, considering
$$L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)$$ let $x=frac{h}{2a}$ to make the equation
$$frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}=frac{sinh^2(x) }{x^2}implies k=sqrt{frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}}=frac{sinh(x) }{x}$$
Consider that you look for the zero of $$f(x)=frac{sinh(x) }{x}-k$$ It varies very quickly. Then, it would be better to look for the zero of
$$g(x)=log left(frac{sinh (x)}{x}right)-log(k)$$ which is much better conditioned.
Edit
To get a starting value $x_0$ for Newton method, using Padé approximant built at $x=0$
$$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{7 x^2+60}{60-3 x^2} implies x_0=frac{2 sqrt{15} sqrt{k-1}}{sqrt{3 k+7}}$$ which would be good for $1 leq k leq 3$.
For larger values of $k$
$$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{e^x}{2 x}implies x_0=-W_{-1}left(-frac{1}{2 k}right)$$ where appears Lambert function.
The table below shows some results
$$left(
begin{array}{ccc}
k & x_0 & x \
1.25 & 1.18125 & 1.18273 \
1.50 & 1.61515 & 1.62213 \
1.75 & 1.91663 & 1.93300 \
2.00 & 2.14834 & 2.17732 \
2.25 & 2.33550 & 2.37963 \
2.50 & 2.49136 & 2.55265 \
2.75 & 2.62398 & 2.70395 \
3.00 & 2.73861 & 2.83845 \
& & \
3.00 & 2.83315 & 2.83845 \
3.25 & 2.95545 & 2.95952 \
3.50 & 3.06642 & 3.06962 \
3.75 & 3.16801 & 3.17058 \
4.00 & 3.26169 & 3.26380 \
4.25 & 3.34861 & 3.35037 \
4.50 & 3.42970 & 3.43117 \
4.75 & 3.50567 & 3.50693 \
5.00 & 3.57715 & 3.57823
end{array}
right)$$
Edit
Looking at this question (which I did not remember - problem of age, I guess), I noticed that I was able to generate a quite good estimates building at $x=0$ the $[3,4]$ Padé approximant of $sinh(x)-k x$.
From this, I considered building the $[3,2n]$ Padé approximants which write
$$sinh(x)-k x=x frac{(1-k)+a^{(n)}_1 x^2 }{1+sum_{m=1}^n b_m x^{2m} }$$ leading to an approximate solution
$$x=sqrt{frac {k-1}{a^{(n)}_1 }}$$ For sure, this was done using a CAS. The longest result able to fit on a single line corresponds to $n=6$ and the result is
$$x=frac{sqrt{6} sqrt{(k-1)(105 k^5+60705 k^4+1365738 k^3+5507466 k^2+5665509 k+1414477 )}}{sqrt{3 k^6+6120 k^5+307017 k^4+2586544 k^3+5952621 k^2+4301640
k+860055}}$$ which seems to be very good even for large values of $k$ (checked up to $k=500$).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 26 '18 at 19:19
$begingroup$
@Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
$endgroup$
– Claude Leibovici
Dec 27 '18 at 2:46
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Calling
$$
x_2-x_1 = h\
y_2-y_1 = v
$$
we have
$$
v = acoshleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-acoshleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)\
L = asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
$$
so after some trigonometric transformations we arrive at
$$
L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{x_2-x_1}{2a}right)
$$
so we have finally
$$
L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
$$
with this last equation we can determine the $a = a_0$ value using an iterative procedure.
NOTE
Calling now
$$
y(x) = y_0 + a_0coshleft(frac{x-x_0}{a_0}right)
$$
such that
$$
y(x_1) = y_1\
y(x_2) = y_2
$$
The minimum point is obtained by solving for $x$
$$
y'(x) = 0
$$
so if $x_1 le x_0 le x_2$ follows
$$
min y(x) = y_0 + a_0
$$
otherwise
$$
min y(x) = min(y_1, y_2)
$$
Now, regarding the iterative process we have
$$
frac{L^2-v^2}{4a^2} = sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
$$
or
$$
C_0^2lambda^2=sinh^2lambda, lambda = frac{h}{2a}, C_0 = frac{sqrt{L^2-v^2}}{h}
$$
or
$$
C_0 lambda = sinh(lambda)
$$
which should be solved numerically.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 16:09
$begingroup$
Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 22:20
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Calling
$$
x_2-x_1 = h\
y_2-y_1 = v
$$
we have
$$
v = acoshleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-acoshleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)\
L = asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
$$
so after some trigonometric transformations we arrive at
$$
L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{x_2-x_1}{2a}right)
$$
so we have finally
$$
L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
$$
with this last equation we can determine the $a = a_0$ value using an iterative procedure.
NOTE
Calling now
$$
y(x) = y_0 + a_0coshleft(frac{x-x_0}{a_0}right)
$$
such that
$$
y(x_1) = y_1\
y(x_2) = y_2
$$
The minimum point is obtained by solving for $x$
$$
y'(x) = 0
$$
so if $x_1 le x_0 le x_2$ follows
$$
min y(x) = y_0 + a_0
$$
otherwise
$$
min y(x) = min(y_1, y_2)
$$
Now, regarding the iterative process we have
$$
frac{L^2-v^2}{4a^2} = sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
$$
or
$$
C_0^2lambda^2=sinh^2lambda, lambda = frac{h}{2a}, C_0 = frac{sqrt{L^2-v^2}}{h}
$$
or
$$
C_0 lambda = sinh(lambda)
$$
which should be solved numerically.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 16:09
$begingroup$
Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 22:20
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Calling
$$
x_2-x_1 = h\
y_2-y_1 = v
$$
we have
$$
v = acoshleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-acoshleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)\
L = asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
$$
so after some trigonometric transformations we arrive at
$$
L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{x_2-x_1}{2a}right)
$$
so we have finally
$$
L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
$$
with this last equation we can determine the $a = a_0$ value using an iterative procedure.
NOTE
Calling now
$$
y(x) = y_0 + a_0coshleft(frac{x-x_0}{a_0}right)
$$
such that
$$
y(x_1) = y_1\
y(x_2) = y_2
$$
The minimum point is obtained by solving for $x$
$$
y'(x) = 0
$$
so if $x_1 le x_0 le x_2$ follows
$$
min y(x) = y_0 + a_0
$$
otherwise
$$
min y(x) = min(y_1, y_2)
$$
Now, regarding the iterative process we have
$$
frac{L^2-v^2}{4a^2} = sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
$$
or
$$
C_0^2lambda^2=sinh^2lambda, lambda = frac{h}{2a}, C_0 = frac{sqrt{L^2-v^2}}{h}
$$
or
$$
C_0 lambda = sinh(lambda)
$$
which should be solved numerically.
$endgroup$
Calling
$$
x_2-x_1 = h\
y_2-y_1 = v
$$
we have
$$
v = acoshleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-acoshleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)\
L = asinhleft(frac{x_2}{a}right)-asinhleft(frac{x_1}{a}right)
$$
so after some trigonometric transformations we arrive at
$$
L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{x_2-x_1}{2a}right)
$$
so we have finally
$$
L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
$$
with this last equation we can determine the $a = a_0$ value using an iterative procedure.
NOTE
Calling now
$$
y(x) = y_0 + a_0coshleft(frac{x-x_0}{a_0}right)
$$
such that
$$
y(x_1) = y_1\
y(x_2) = y_2
$$
The minimum point is obtained by solving for $x$
$$
y'(x) = 0
$$
so if $x_1 le x_0 le x_2$ follows
$$
min y(x) = y_0 + a_0
$$
otherwise
$$
min y(x) = min(y_1, y_2)
$$
Now, regarding the iterative process we have
$$
frac{L^2-v^2}{4a^2} = sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)
$$
or
$$
C_0^2lambda^2=sinh^2lambda, lambda = frac{h}{2a}, C_0 = frac{sqrt{L^2-v^2}}{h}
$$
or
$$
C_0 lambda = sinh(lambda)
$$
which should be solved numerically.
edited Dec 25 '18 at 22:52
answered Dec 25 '18 at 9:56
CesareoCesareo
10.1k3518
10.1k3518
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 16:09
$begingroup$
Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 22:20
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 16:09
$begingroup$
Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 22:20
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 16:09
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need iterative methods.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 16:09
$begingroup$
Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 22:20
$begingroup$
Excuse me. My equation is general form of catenary like below: y=a*cosh((x-x0)/a)+y0. I want all catenary shapes not just symmetrical shapes. I would like to model all ropes with different start, end points and length. I changed my question.How can I compute x0,y0 with respect to two equations. I need to use numerical computation or analytical? Thanks.
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 25 '18 at 22:20
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Starting from @Cesareo answer, considering
$$L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)$$ let $x=frac{h}{2a}$ to make the equation
$$frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}=frac{sinh^2(x) }{x^2}implies k=sqrt{frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}}=frac{sinh(x) }{x}$$
Consider that you look for the zero of $$f(x)=frac{sinh(x) }{x}-k$$ It varies very quickly. Then, it would be better to look for the zero of
$$g(x)=log left(frac{sinh (x)}{x}right)-log(k)$$ which is much better conditioned.
Edit
To get a starting value $x_0$ for Newton method, using Padé approximant built at $x=0$
$$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{7 x^2+60}{60-3 x^2} implies x_0=frac{2 sqrt{15} sqrt{k-1}}{sqrt{3 k+7}}$$ which would be good for $1 leq k leq 3$.
For larger values of $k$
$$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{e^x}{2 x}implies x_0=-W_{-1}left(-frac{1}{2 k}right)$$ where appears Lambert function.
The table below shows some results
$$left(
begin{array}{ccc}
k & x_0 & x \
1.25 & 1.18125 & 1.18273 \
1.50 & 1.61515 & 1.62213 \
1.75 & 1.91663 & 1.93300 \
2.00 & 2.14834 & 2.17732 \
2.25 & 2.33550 & 2.37963 \
2.50 & 2.49136 & 2.55265 \
2.75 & 2.62398 & 2.70395 \
3.00 & 2.73861 & 2.83845 \
& & \
3.00 & 2.83315 & 2.83845 \
3.25 & 2.95545 & 2.95952 \
3.50 & 3.06642 & 3.06962 \
3.75 & 3.16801 & 3.17058 \
4.00 & 3.26169 & 3.26380 \
4.25 & 3.34861 & 3.35037 \
4.50 & 3.42970 & 3.43117 \
4.75 & 3.50567 & 3.50693 \
5.00 & 3.57715 & 3.57823
end{array}
right)$$
Edit
Looking at this question (which I did not remember - problem of age, I guess), I noticed that I was able to generate a quite good estimates building at $x=0$ the $[3,4]$ Padé approximant of $sinh(x)-k x$.
From this, I considered building the $[3,2n]$ Padé approximants which write
$$sinh(x)-k x=x frac{(1-k)+a^{(n)}_1 x^2 }{1+sum_{m=1}^n b_m x^{2m} }$$ leading to an approximate solution
$$x=sqrt{frac {k-1}{a^{(n)}_1 }}$$ For sure, this was done using a CAS. The longest result able to fit on a single line corresponds to $n=6$ and the result is
$$x=frac{sqrt{6} sqrt{(k-1)(105 k^5+60705 k^4+1365738 k^3+5507466 k^2+5665509 k+1414477 )}}{sqrt{3 k^6+6120 k^5+307017 k^4+2586544 k^3+5952621 k^2+4301640
k+860055}}$$ which seems to be very good even for large values of $k$ (checked up to $k=500$).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 26 '18 at 19:19
$begingroup$
@Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
$endgroup$
– Claude Leibovici
Dec 27 '18 at 2:46
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Starting from @Cesareo answer, considering
$$L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)$$ let $x=frac{h}{2a}$ to make the equation
$$frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}=frac{sinh^2(x) }{x^2}implies k=sqrt{frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}}=frac{sinh(x) }{x}$$
Consider that you look for the zero of $$f(x)=frac{sinh(x) }{x}-k$$ It varies very quickly. Then, it would be better to look for the zero of
$$g(x)=log left(frac{sinh (x)}{x}right)-log(k)$$ which is much better conditioned.
Edit
To get a starting value $x_0$ for Newton method, using Padé approximant built at $x=0$
$$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{7 x^2+60}{60-3 x^2} implies x_0=frac{2 sqrt{15} sqrt{k-1}}{sqrt{3 k+7}}$$ which would be good for $1 leq k leq 3$.
For larger values of $k$
$$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{e^x}{2 x}implies x_0=-W_{-1}left(-frac{1}{2 k}right)$$ where appears Lambert function.
The table below shows some results
$$left(
begin{array}{ccc}
k & x_0 & x \
1.25 & 1.18125 & 1.18273 \
1.50 & 1.61515 & 1.62213 \
1.75 & 1.91663 & 1.93300 \
2.00 & 2.14834 & 2.17732 \
2.25 & 2.33550 & 2.37963 \
2.50 & 2.49136 & 2.55265 \
2.75 & 2.62398 & 2.70395 \
3.00 & 2.73861 & 2.83845 \
& & \
3.00 & 2.83315 & 2.83845 \
3.25 & 2.95545 & 2.95952 \
3.50 & 3.06642 & 3.06962 \
3.75 & 3.16801 & 3.17058 \
4.00 & 3.26169 & 3.26380 \
4.25 & 3.34861 & 3.35037 \
4.50 & 3.42970 & 3.43117 \
4.75 & 3.50567 & 3.50693 \
5.00 & 3.57715 & 3.57823
end{array}
right)$$
Edit
Looking at this question (which I did not remember - problem of age, I guess), I noticed that I was able to generate a quite good estimates building at $x=0$ the $[3,4]$ Padé approximant of $sinh(x)-k x$.
From this, I considered building the $[3,2n]$ Padé approximants which write
$$sinh(x)-k x=x frac{(1-k)+a^{(n)}_1 x^2 }{1+sum_{m=1}^n b_m x^{2m} }$$ leading to an approximate solution
$$x=sqrt{frac {k-1}{a^{(n)}_1 }}$$ For sure, this was done using a CAS. The longest result able to fit on a single line corresponds to $n=6$ and the result is
$$x=frac{sqrt{6} sqrt{(k-1)(105 k^5+60705 k^4+1365738 k^3+5507466 k^2+5665509 k+1414477 )}}{sqrt{3 k^6+6120 k^5+307017 k^4+2586544 k^3+5952621 k^2+4301640
k+860055}}$$ which seems to be very good even for large values of $k$ (checked up to $k=500$).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 26 '18 at 19:19
$begingroup$
@Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
$endgroup$
– Claude Leibovici
Dec 27 '18 at 2:46
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Starting from @Cesareo answer, considering
$$L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)$$ let $x=frac{h}{2a}$ to make the equation
$$frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}=frac{sinh^2(x) }{x^2}implies k=sqrt{frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}}=frac{sinh(x) }{x}$$
Consider that you look for the zero of $$f(x)=frac{sinh(x) }{x}-k$$ It varies very quickly. Then, it would be better to look for the zero of
$$g(x)=log left(frac{sinh (x)}{x}right)-log(k)$$ which is much better conditioned.
Edit
To get a starting value $x_0$ for Newton method, using Padé approximant built at $x=0$
$$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{7 x^2+60}{60-3 x^2} implies x_0=frac{2 sqrt{15} sqrt{k-1}}{sqrt{3 k+7}}$$ which would be good for $1 leq k leq 3$.
For larger values of $k$
$$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{e^x}{2 x}implies x_0=-W_{-1}left(-frac{1}{2 k}right)$$ where appears Lambert function.
The table below shows some results
$$left(
begin{array}{ccc}
k & x_0 & x \
1.25 & 1.18125 & 1.18273 \
1.50 & 1.61515 & 1.62213 \
1.75 & 1.91663 & 1.93300 \
2.00 & 2.14834 & 2.17732 \
2.25 & 2.33550 & 2.37963 \
2.50 & 2.49136 & 2.55265 \
2.75 & 2.62398 & 2.70395 \
3.00 & 2.73861 & 2.83845 \
& & \
3.00 & 2.83315 & 2.83845 \
3.25 & 2.95545 & 2.95952 \
3.50 & 3.06642 & 3.06962 \
3.75 & 3.16801 & 3.17058 \
4.00 & 3.26169 & 3.26380 \
4.25 & 3.34861 & 3.35037 \
4.50 & 3.42970 & 3.43117 \
4.75 & 3.50567 & 3.50693 \
5.00 & 3.57715 & 3.57823
end{array}
right)$$
Edit
Looking at this question (which I did not remember - problem of age, I guess), I noticed that I was able to generate a quite good estimates building at $x=0$ the $[3,4]$ Padé approximant of $sinh(x)-k x$.
From this, I considered building the $[3,2n]$ Padé approximants which write
$$sinh(x)-k x=x frac{(1-k)+a^{(n)}_1 x^2 }{1+sum_{m=1}^n b_m x^{2m} }$$ leading to an approximate solution
$$x=sqrt{frac {k-1}{a^{(n)}_1 }}$$ For sure, this was done using a CAS. The longest result able to fit on a single line corresponds to $n=6$ and the result is
$$x=frac{sqrt{6} sqrt{(k-1)(105 k^5+60705 k^4+1365738 k^3+5507466 k^2+5665509 k+1414477 )}}{sqrt{3 k^6+6120 k^5+307017 k^4+2586544 k^3+5952621 k^2+4301640
k+860055}}$$ which seems to be very good even for large values of $k$ (checked up to $k=500$).
$endgroup$
Starting from @Cesareo answer, considering
$$L^2-v^2 = 4a^2sinh^2left(frac{h}{2a}right)$$ let $x=frac{h}{2a}$ to make the equation
$$frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}=frac{sinh^2(x) }{x^2}implies k=sqrt{frac{L^2-v^2}{h^2}}=frac{sinh(x) }{x}$$
Consider that you look for the zero of $$f(x)=frac{sinh(x) }{x}-k$$ It varies very quickly. Then, it would be better to look for the zero of
$$g(x)=log left(frac{sinh (x)}{x}right)-log(k)$$ which is much better conditioned.
Edit
To get a starting value $x_0$ for Newton method, using Padé approximant built at $x=0$
$$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{7 x^2+60}{60-3 x^2} implies x_0=frac{2 sqrt{15} sqrt{k-1}}{sqrt{3 k+7}}$$ which would be good for $1 leq k leq 3$.
For larger values of $k$
$$frac{sinh (x)}xsimeq frac{e^x}{2 x}implies x_0=-W_{-1}left(-frac{1}{2 k}right)$$ where appears Lambert function.
The table below shows some results
$$left(
begin{array}{ccc}
k & x_0 & x \
1.25 & 1.18125 & 1.18273 \
1.50 & 1.61515 & 1.62213 \
1.75 & 1.91663 & 1.93300 \
2.00 & 2.14834 & 2.17732 \
2.25 & 2.33550 & 2.37963 \
2.50 & 2.49136 & 2.55265 \
2.75 & 2.62398 & 2.70395 \
3.00 & 2.73861 & 2.83845 \
& & \
3.00 & 2.83315 & 2.83845 \
3.25 & 2.95545 & 2.95952 \
3.50 & 3.06642 & 3.06962 \
3.75 & 3.16801 & 3.17058 \
4.00 & 3.26169 & 3.26380 \
4.25 & 3.34861 & 3.35037 \
4.50 & 3.42970 & 3.43117 \
4.75 & 3.50567 & 3.50693 \
5.00 & 3.57715 & 3.57823
end{array}
right)$$
Edit
Looking at this question (which I did not remember - problem of age, I guess), I noticed that I was able to generate a quite good estimates building at $x=0$ the $[3,4]$ Padé approximant of $sinh(x)-k x$.
From this, I considered building the $[3,2n]$ Padé approximants which write
$$sinh(x)-k x=x frac{(1-k)+a^{(n)}_1 x^2 }{1+sum_{m=1}^n b_m x^{2m} }$$ leading to an approximate solution
$$x=sqrt{frac {k-1}{a^{(n)}_1 }}$$ For sure, this was done using a CAS. The longest result able to fit on a single line corresponds to $n=6$ and the result is
$$x=frac{sqrt{6} sqrt{(k-1)(105 k^5+60705 k^4+1365738 k^3+5507466 k^2+5665509 k+1414477 )}}{sqrt{3 k^6+6120 k^5+307017 k^4+2586544 k^3+5952621 k^2+4301640
k+860055}}$$ which seems to be very good even for large values of $k$ (checked up to $k=500$).
edited Dec 27 '18 at 5:58
answered Dec 25 '18 at 16:03
Claude LeiboviciClaude Leibovici
126k1158135
126k1158135
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 26 '18 at 19:19
$begingroup$
@Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
$endgroup$
– Claude Leibovici
Dec 27 '18 at 2:46
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 26 '18 at 19:19
$begingroup$
@Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
$endgroup$
– Claude Leibovici
Dec 27 '18 at 2:46
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 26 '18 at 19:19
$begingroup$
Thanks. So I need to compute two newton methods? one for computing a and the other one for computing b? How can I compute W-1. I need iteration method again?
$endgroup$
– Mahdi
Dec 26 '18 at 19:19
$begingroup$
@Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
$endgroup$
– Claude Leibovici
Dec 27 '18 at 2:46
$begingroup$
@Mahdi. There is only one Newton method. Depending on the value of $k$, you generate $x_0$ using one or the other formula. For the evalution of $W_{-1}(.)$ have a look at the expansions given in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert_W_function
$endgroup$
– Claude Leibovici
Dec 27 '18 at 2:46
add a comment |
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