Variation of a metric $g$ with signature (1,-1,-1,-1)
$begingroup$
I'm new in variations of metric. Let be $g$ a metric with signature (1,-1,-1,-1) on a manifold.
If I consider a family of variations $g+varepsilon h$ (depending on $h$), used to derive the Eulero-Lagrange equations, I think that $g+varepsilon h$ must be metrics with signature (1,-1,-1,-1). So I think that $h$ can't be a generic function but it must be a function in a way that $g+varepsilon h$ is a metric with signature (1,-1,-1,-1) and $h$ cannot be merely the zero function otherwise we cannot derive the Euler-Lagrange equations using Fundamental lemma of calculus of variations (or something similar). What is the suitable set where $h$ are in?
My question is strictly mathematical and it would be interesting solve this question also in general in calculus of variations.
calculus-of-variations
$endgroup$
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
I'm new in variations of metric. Let be $g$ a metric with signature (1,-1,-1,-1) on a manifold.
If I consider a family of variations $g+varepsilon h$ (depending on $h$), used to derive the Eulero-Lagrange equations, I think that $g+varepsilon h$ must be metrics with signature (1,-1,-1,-1). So I think that $h$ can't be a generic function but it must be a function in a way that $g+varepsilon h$ is a metric with signature (1,-1,-1,-1) and $h$ cannot be merely the zero function otherwise we cannot derive the Euler-Lagrange equations using Fundamental lemma of calculus of variations (or something similar). What is the suitable set where $h$ are in?
My question is strictly mathematical and it would be interesting solve this question also in general in calculus of variations.
calculus-of-variations
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
In what Lagrangian does the metric $g+varepsilon h$ appear for the problem of interest? See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linearized_gravity
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 22 '18 at 16:12
$begingroup$
@Winther I would like to have a formal approach to this question. Thanks anyway.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:15
$begingroup$
@J.G. I was thinking a generic Lagrangian and usually I think of variations of that form but we can consider if you want a generic variation $g_ε$ in this case we must say if the $delta g_ε$ are suitable for using Fundamental lemma of calculus of variations. I see that textbooks don't have attention on this problem.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:26
1
$begingroup$
@asv Have you tried getting the equation of motion for $mathcal{L}=(g_{ab}+varepsilon h_{ab})partial^aphipartial^bphi$? What about $mathcal{L}=(g_{ab}+varepsilon h_{ab})(g_{cd}+varepsilon h_{cd})F^{ab}F^{cd}$ with $F^{ab}:=partial^a A^b-partial^b A^a$? I'm sure you could do it, but the choice of Lagrangian is the crux of your question. I don't know what you mean for it to be "generic".
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 22 '18 at 16:28
$begingroup$
@J.G. For generic I mean a one-parameter family of variations: $g(varepsilon)$ (for every $varepsilon$ a metric), $g: (-varepsilon, varepsilon) rightarrow MetricSpace$
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:37
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
I'm new in variations of metric. Let be $g$ a metric with signature (1,-1,-1,-1) on a manifold.
If I consider a family of variations $g+varepsilon h$ (depending on $h$), used to derive the Eulero-Lagrange equations, I think that $g+varepsilon h$ must be metrics with signature (1,-1,-1,-1). So I think that $h$ can't be a generic function but it must be a function in a way that $g+varepsilon h$ is a metric with signature (1,-1,-1,-1) and $h$ cannot be merely the zero function otherwise we cannot derive the Euler-Lagrange equations using Fundamental lemma of calculus of variations (or something similar). What is the suitable set where $h$ are in?
My question is strictly mathematical and it would be interesting solve this question also in general in calculus of variations.
calculus-of-variations
$endgroup$
I'm new in variations of metric. Let be $g$ a metric with signature (1,-1,-1,-1) on a manifold.
If I consider a family of variations $g+varepsilon h$ (depending on $h$), used to derive the Eulero-Lagrange equations, I think that $g+varepsilon h$ must be metrics with signature (1,-1,-1,-1). So I think that $h$ can't be a generic function but it must be a function in a way that $g+varepsilon h$ is a metric with signature (1,-1,-1,-1) and $h$ cannot be merely the zero function otherwise we cannot derive the Euler-Lagrange equations using Fundamental lemma of calculus of variations (or something similar). What is the suitable set where $h$ are in?
My question is strictly mathematical and it would be interesting solve this question also in general in calculus of variations.
calculus-of-variations
calculus-of-variations
edited Dec 24 '18 at 12:44
asv
asked Dec 22 '18 at 16:06
asvasv
3531212
3531212
$begingroup$
In what Lagrangian does the metric $g+varepsilon h$ appear for the problem of interest? See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linearized_gravity
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 22 '18 at 16:12
$begingroup$
@Winther I would like to have a formal approach to this question. Thanks anyway.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:15
$begingroup$
@J.G. I was thinking a generic Lagrangian and usually I think of variations of that form but we can consider if you want a generic variation $g_ε$ in this case we must say if the $delta g_ε$ are suitable for using Fundamental lemma of calculus of variations. I see that textbooks don't have attention on this problem.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:26
1
$begingroup$
@asv Have you tried getting the equation of motion for $mathcal{L}=(g_{ab}+varepsilon h_{ab})partial^aphipartial^bphi$? What about $mathcal{L}=(g_{ab}+varepsilon h_{ab})(g_{cd}+varepsilon h_{cd})F^{ab}F^{cd}$ with $F^{ab}:=partial^a A^b-partial^b A^a$? I'm sure you could do it, but the choice of Lagrangian is the crux of your question. I don't know what you mean for it to be "generic".
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 22 '18 at 16:28
$begingroup$
@J.G. For generic I mean a one-parameter family of variations: $g(varepsilon)$ (for every $varepsilon$ a metric), $g: (-varepsilon, varepsilon) rightarrow MetricSpace$
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:37
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
In what Lagrangian does the metric $g+varepsilon h$ appear for the problem of interest? See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linearized_gravity
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 22 '18 at 16:12
$begingroup$
@Winther I would like to have a formal approach to this question. Thanks anyway.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:15
$begingroup$
@J.G. I was thinking a generic Lagrangian and usually I think of variations of that form but we can consider if you want a generic variation $g_ε$ in this case we must say if the $delta g_ε$ are suitable for using Fundamental lemma of calculus of variations. I see that textbooks don't have attention on this problem.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:26
1
$begingroup$
@asv Have you tried getting the equation of motion for $mathcal{L}=(g_{ab}+varepsilon h_{ab})partial^aphipartial^bphi$? What about $mathcal{L}=(g_{ab}+varepsilon h_{ab})(g_{cd}+varepsilon h_{cd})F^{ab}F^{cd}$ with $F^{ab}:=partial^a A^b-partial^b A^a$? I'm sure you could do it, but the choice of Lagrangian is the crux of your question. I don't know what you mean for it to be "generic".
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 22 '18 at 16:28
$begingroup$
@J.G. For generic I mean a one-parameter family of variations: $g(varepsilon)$ (for every $varepsilon$ a metric), $g: (-varepsilon, varepsilon) rightarrow MetricSpace$
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:37
$begingroup$
In what Lagrangian does the metric $g+varepsilon h$ appear for the problem of interest? See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linearized_gravity
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 22 '18 at 16:12
$begingroup$
In what Lagrangian does the metric $g+varepsilon h$ appear for the problem of interest? See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linearized_gravity
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 22 '18 at 16:12
$begingroup$
@Winther I would like to have a formal approach to this question. Thanks anyway.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:15
$begingroup$
@Winther I would like to have a formal approach to this question. Thanks anyway.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:15
$begingroup$
@J.G. I was thinking a generic Lagrangian and usually I think of variations of that form but we can consider if you want a generic variation $g_ε$ in this case we must say if the $delta g_ε$ are suitable for using Fundamental lemma of calculus of variations. I see that textbooks don't have attention on this problem.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:26
$begingroup$
@J.G. I was thinking a generic Lagrangian and usually I think of variations of that form but we can consider if you want a generic variation $g_ε$ in this case we must say if the $delta g_ε$ are suitable for using Fundamental lemma of calculus of variations. I see that textbooks don't have attention on this problem.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:26
1
1
$begingroup$
@asv Have you tried getting the equation of motion for $mathcal{L}=(g_{ab}+varepsilon h_{ab})partial^aphipartial^bphi$? What about $mathcal{L}=(g_{ab}+varepsilon h_{ab})(g_{cd}+varepsilon h_{cd})F^{ab}F^{cd}$ with $F^{ab}:=partial^a A^b-partial^b A^a$? I'm sure you could do it, but the choice of Lagrangian is the crux of your question. I don't know what you mean for it to be "generic".
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 22 '18 at 16:28
$begingroup$
@asv Have you tried getting the equation of motion for $mathcal{L}=(g_{ab}+varepsilon h_{ab})partial^aphipartial^bphi$? What about $mathcal{L}=(g_{ab}+varepsilon h_{ab})(g_{cd}+varepsilon h_{cd})F^{ab}F^{cd}$ with $F^{ab}:=partial^a A^b-partial^b A^a$? I'm sure you could do it, but the choice of Lagrangian is the crux of your question. I don't know what you mean for it to be "generic".
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 22 '18 at 16:28
$begingroup$
@J.G. For generic I mean a one-parameter family of variations: $g(varepsilon)$ (for every $varepsilon$ a metric), $g: (-varepsilon, varepsilon) rightarrow MetricSpace$
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:37
$begingroup$
@J.G. For generic I mean a one-parameter family of variations: $g(varepsilon)$ (for every $varepsilon$ a metric), $g: (-varepsilon, varepsilon) rightarrow MetricSpace$
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:37
|
show 2 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
To answer your question let's go schematically through the derivation of the Euler-Lagrange equation and see explicitly where the set from which we pick the $h$'s enters and if the signature really matters.
When deriving the Euler-Lagrange equation we start with a functional (action) $S[g] = int mathcal{L}[g]{rm d}^nx$ where $mathcal{L}[g]$ is the Lagrangian and consider a variation $S[g+epsilon h] - S[g]$. Expanding this it a series in $epsilon$ we end up with
$$frac{S[g+epsilon h] - S[g]}{epsilon} = int[F_{munu}h^{munu} + mathcal{O}(epsilon)]{rm d}^nx$$
In such a derivation we often have to do integration by parts giving us boundary terms and for these to vanish we have to impose some conditions on the $h$ we allow (just like for scalars where we typically only allow variations that vanish on the boundary).
Now we demand that the directional derivative $lim_{epsilonto 0}frac{S[g+hepsilon]-S[g]}{epsilon} = 0$ for all the allowed $h$'s giving us the Euler-Lagrange equation $F_{munu} = 0$ whose solution gives us the metric $g$ for which the action is stationary. This requires us to consider a large enough set of $h$'s such that $int F_{munu}h^{munu}{rm d}^nx = 0 text{ for all $h$}implies F_{munu} = 0$.
The exact choice of this set, apart from restrictions coming from boundary conditions, plays no big role in the derivation apart from indirectly: it should be such that $int F_{munu}h^{munu} = 0$ for all $h$ implies $F_{munu} = 0$ and also be such that the integrals exist. Trying to exactly specify this set is just tedious, which is why nobody really specify it very formally, and comes with no real advantage other than "being rigorous for rigor's sake".
Nowhere does the signature of $g$ or the variation $g+hepsilon$ really enter the derivation. We are anyway taking the limit $epsilonto 0$ so we only care about "infinitesimal" $epsilon$'s and the signature of $g$ will be the same as $g+hepsilon$ for small enough $epsilon$ if $g$ is non-degenerate. And even if it was not, in general the metric signature can change so I don't see why one would demand $g+hepsilon$ to have the same signature as $g$ (but if the metric turns out to be non-degenerate and regular everywhere which is the usual case then the metric signature doesn't change). You are of course free to consider only $h$'s with the same signature as you want and $epsilon > 0$ if that makes you sleep better at night, but note that this doesn't really change anything in the derivation.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I agree it is not necessary to show $h$ but at least it would be better to prove that the set of $h$ with desired properties is not empty. However I will think that the variation is taken over a generic metric and I'll sleep better night :). Thank you.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 23 '18 at 14:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let us sketch what's at stake:
Assuming that the Lagrangian density ${cal L}(x,g(x),partial g(x))$ is a differentiable function of the metric $g(x)$ (and its derivative), then in accordance with the variational principle, in an interior point $x$, the first variation $h(x)$ of the metric is (and must be) an arbitrary symmetric matrix (at least up to a multiplicative constant, cf. pt. 2 & 3).
Note in particular that the metric $g(x)+varepsilon h(x)$ must have the same signature as $g(x)$ for sufficiently small $varepsilon$.
If the region is compact, we can use uniform continuity to argue that such sufficiently small $varepsilon$ exists globally.
To make the variation problem well-posed it is usually necessary to impose pertinent boundary conditions on $h$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you, can you give the details of these points?
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 25 '18 at 23:53
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3049591%2fvariation-of-a-metric-g-with-signature-1-1-1-1%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
To answer your question let's go schematically through the derivation of the Euler-Lagrange equation and see explicitly where the set from which we pick the $h$'s enters and if the signature really matters.
When deriving the Euler-Lagrange equation we start with a functional (action) $S[g] = int mathcal{L}[g]{rm d}^nx$ where $mathcal{L}[g]$ is the Lagrangian and consider a variation $S[g+epsilon h] - S[g]$. Expanding this it a series in $epsilon$ we end up with
$$frac{S[g+epsilon h] - S[g]}{epsilon} = int[F_{munu}h^{munu} + mathcal{O}(epsilon)]{rm d}^nx$$
In such a derivation we often have to do integration by parts giving us boundary terms and for these to vanish we have to impose some conditions on the $h$ we allow (just like for scalars where we typically only allow variations that vanish on the boundary).
Now we demand that the directional derivative $lim_{epsilonto 0}frac{S[g+hepsilon]-S[g]}{epsilon} = 0$ for all the allowed $h$'s giving us the Euler-Lagrange equation $F_{munu} = 0$ whose solution gives us the metric $g$ for which the action is stationary. This requires us to consider a large enough set of $h$'s such that $int F_{munu}h^{munu}{rm d}^nx = 0 text{ for all $h$}implies F_{munu} = 0$.
The exact choice of this set, apart from restrictions coming from boundary conditions, plays no big role in the derivation apart from indirectly: it should be such that $int F_{munu}h^{munu} = 0$ for all $h$ implies $F_{munu} = 0$ and also be such that the integrals exist. Trying to exactly specify this set is just tedious, which is why nobody really specify it very formally, and comes with no real advantage other than "being rigorous for rigor's sake".
Nowhere does the signature of $g$ or the variation $g+hepsilon$ really enter the derivation. We are anyway taking the limit $epsilonto 0$ so we only care about "infinitesimal" $epsilon$'s and the signature of $g$ will be the same as $g+hepsilon$ for small enough $epsilon$ if $g$ is non-degenerate. And even if it was not, in general the metric signature can change so I don't see why one would demand $g+hepsilon$ to have the same signature as $g$ (but if the metric turns out to be non-degenerate and regular everywhere which is the usual case then the metric signature doesn't change). You are of course free to consider only $h$'s with the same signature as you want and $epsilon > 0$ if that makes you sleep better at night, but note that this doesn't really change anything in the derivation.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I agree it is not necessary to show $h$ but at least it would be better to prove that the set of $h$ with desired properties is not empty. However I will think that the variation is taken over a generic metric and I'll sleep better night :). Thank you.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 23 '18 at 14:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To answer your question let's go schematically through the derivation of the Euler-Lagrange equation and see explicitly where the set from which we pick the $h$'s enters and if the signature really matters.
When deriving the Euler-Lagrange equation we start with a functional (action) $S[g] = int mathcal{L}[g]{rm d}^nx$ where $mathcal{L}[g]$ is the Lagrangian and consider a variation $S[g+epsilon h] - S[g]$. Expanding this it a series in $epsilon$ we end up with
$$frac{S[g+epsilon h] - S[g]}{epsilon} = int[F_{munu}h^{munu} + mathcal{O}(epsilon)]{rm d}^nx$$
In such a derivation we often have to do integration by parts giving us boundary terms and for these to vanish we have to impose some conditions on the $h$ we allow (just like for scalars where we typically only allow variations that vanish on the boundary).
Now we demand that the directional derivative $lim_{epsilonto 0}frac{S[g+hepsilon]-S[g]}{epsilon} = 0$ for all the allowed $h$'s giving us the Euler-Lagrange equation $F_{munu} = 0$ whose solution gives us the metric $g$ for which the action is stationary. This requires us to consider a large enough set of $h$'s such that $int F_{munu}h^{munu}{rm d}^nx = 0 text{ for all $h$}implies F_{munu} = 0$.
The exact choice of this set, apart from restrictions coming from boundary conditions, plays no big role in the derivation apart from indirectly: it should be such that $int F_{munu}h^{munu} = 0$ for all $h$ implies $F_{munu} = 0$ and also be such that the integrals exist. Trying to exactly specify this set is just tedious, which is why nobody really specify it very formally, and comes with no real advantage other than "being rigorous for rigor's sake".
Nowhere does the signature of $g$ or the variation $g+hepsilon$ really enter the derivation. We are anyway taking the limit $epsilonto 0$ so we only care about "infinitesimal" $epsilon$'s and the signature of $g$ will be the same as $g+hepsilon$ for small enough $epsilon$ if $g$ is non-degenerate. And even if it was not, in general the metric signature can change so I don't see why one would demand $g+hepsilon$ to have the same signature as $g$ (but if the metric turns out to be non-degenerate and regular everywhere which is the usual case then the metric signature doesn't change). You are of course free to consider only $h$'s with the same signature as you want and $epsilon > 0$ if that makes you sleep better at night, but note that this doesn't really change anything in the derivation.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I agree it is not necessary to show $h$ but at least it would be better to prove that the set of $h$ with desired properties is not empty. However I will think that the variation is taken over a generic metric and I'll sleep better night :). Thank you.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 23 '18 at 14:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To answer your question let's go schematically through the derivation of the Euler-Lagrange equation and see explicitly where the set from which we pick the $h$'s enters and if the signature really matters.
When deriving the Euler-Lagrange equation we start with a functional (action) $S[g] = int mathcal{L}[g]{rm d}^nx$ where $mathcal{L}[g]$ is the Lagrangian and consider a variation $S[g+epsilon h] - S[g]$. Expanding this it a series in $epsilon$ we end up with
$$frac{S[g+epsilon h] - S[g]}{epsilon} = int[F_{munu}h^{munu} + mathcal{O}(epsilon)]{rm d}^nx$$
In such a derivation we often have to do integration by parts giving us boundary terms and for these to vanish we have to impose some conditions on the $h$ we allow (just like for scalars where we typically only allow variations that vanish on the boundary).
Now we demand that the directional derivative $lim_{epsilonto 0}frac{S[g+hepsilon]-S[g]}{epsilon} = 0$ for all the allowed $h$'s giving us the Euler-Lagrange equation $F_{munu} = 0$ whose solution gives us the metric $g$ for which the action is stationary. This requires us to consider a large enough set of $h$'s such that $int F_{munu}h^{munu}{rm d}^nx = 0 text{ for all $h$}implies F_{munu} = 0$.
The exact choice of this set, apart from restrictions coming from boundary conditions, plays no big role in the derivation apart from indirectly: it should be such that $int F_{munu}h^{munu} = 0$ for all $h$ implies $F_{munu} = 0$ and also be such that the integrals exist. Trying to exactly specify this set is just tedious, which is why nobody really specify it very formally, and comes with no real advantage other than "being rigorous for rigor's sake".
Nowhere does the signature of $g$ or the variation $g+hepsilon$ really enter the derivation. We are anyway taking the limit $epsilonto 0$ so we only care about "infinitesimal" $epsilon$'s and the signature of $g$ will be the same as $g+hepsilon$ for small enough $epsilon$ if $g$ is non-degenerate. And even if it was not, in general the metric signature can change so I don't see why one would demand $g+hepsilon$ to have the same signature as $g$ (but if the metric turns out to be non-degenerate and regular everywhere which is the usual case then the metric signature doesn't change). You are of course free to consider only $h$'s with the same signature as you want and $epsilon > 0$ if that makes you sleep better at night, but note that this doesn't really change anything in the derivation.
$endgroup$
To answer your question let's go schematically through the derivation of the Euler-Lagrange equation and see explicitly where the set from which we pick the $h$'s enters and if the signature really matters.
When deriving the Euler-Lagrange equation we start with a functional (action) $S[g] = int mathcal{L}[g]{rm d}^nx$ where $mathcal{L}[g]$ is the Lagrangian and consider a variation $S[g+epsilon h] - S[g]$. Expanding this it a series in $epsilon$ we end up with
$$frac{S[g+epsilon h] - S[g]}{epsilon} = int[F_{munu}h^{munu} + mathcal{O}(epsilon)]{rm d}^nx$$
In such a derivation we often have to do integration by parts giving us boundary terms and for these to vanish we have to impose some conditions on the $h$ we allow (just like for scalars where we typically only allow variations that vanish on the boundary).
Now we demand that the directional derivative $lim_{epsilonto 0}frac{S[g+hepsilon]-S[g]}{epsilon} = 0$ for all the allowed $h$'s giving us the Euler-Lagrange equation $F_{munu} = 0$ whose solution gives us the metric $g$ for which the action is stationary. This requires us to consider a large enough set of $h$'s such that $int F_{munu}h^{munu}{rm d}^nx = 0 text{ for all $h$}implies F_{munu} = 0$.
The exact choice of this set, apart from restrictions coming from boundary conditions, plays no big role in the derivation apart from indirectly: it should be such that $int F_{munu}h^{munu} = 0$ for all $h$ implies $F_{munu} = 0$ and also be such that the integrals exist. Trying to exactly specify this set is just tedious, which is why nobody really specify it very formally, and comes with no real advantage other than "being rigorous for rigor's sake".
Nowhere does the signature of $g$ or the variation $g+hepsilon$ really enter the derivation. We are anyway taking the limit $epsilonto 0$ so we only care about "infinitesimal" $epsilon$'s and the signature of $g$ will be the same as $g+hepsilon$ for small enough $epsilon$ if $g$ is non-degenerate. And even if it was not, in general the metric signature can change so I don't see why one would demand $g+hepsilon$ to have the same signature as $g$ (but if the metric turns out to be non-degenerate and regular everywhere which is the usual case then the metric signature doesn't change). You are of course free to consider only $h$'s with the same signature as you want and $epsilon > 0$ if that makes you sleep better at night, but note that this doesn't really change anything in the derivation.
answered Dec 22 '18 at 20:04
WintherWinther
20.9k33156
20.9k33156
$begingroup$
I agree it is not necessary to show $h$ but at least it would be better to prove that the set of $h$ with desired properties is not empty. However I will think that the variation is taken over a generic metric and I'll sleep better night :). Thank you.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 23 '18 at 14:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I agree it is not necessary to show $h$ but at least it would be better to prove that the set of $h$ with desired properties is not empty. However I will think that the variation is taken over a generic metric and I'll sleep better night :). Thank you.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 23 '18 at 14:48
$begingroup$
I agree it is not necessary to show $h$ but at least it would be better to prove that the set of $h$ with desired properties is not empty. However I will think that the variation is taken over a generic metric and I'll sleep better night :). Thank you.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 23 '18 at 14:48
$begingroup$
I agree it is not necessary to show $h$ but at least it would be better to prove that the set of $h$ with desired properties is not empty. However I will think that the variation is taken over a generic metric and I'll sleep better night :). Thank you.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 23 '18 at 14:48
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let us sketch what's at stake:
Assuming that the Lagrangian density ${cal L}(x,g(x),partial g(x))$ is a differentiable function of the metric $g(x)$ (and its derivative), then in accordance with the variational principle, in an interior point $x$, the first variation $h(x)$ of the metric is (and must be) an arbitrary symmetric matrix (at least up to a multiplicative constant, cf. pt. 2 & 3).
Note in particular that the metric $g(x)+varepsilon h(x)$ must have the same signature as $g(x)$ for sufficiently small $varepsilon$.
If the region is compact, we can use uniform continuity to argue that such sufficiently small $varepsilon$ exists globally.
To make the variation problem well-posed it is usually necessary to impose pertinent boundary conditions on $h$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you, can you give the details of these points?
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 25 '18 at 23:53
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let us sketch what's at stake:
Assuming that the Lagrangian density ${cal L}(x,g(x),partial g(x))$ is a differentiable function of the metric $g(x)$ (and its derivative), then in accordance with the variational principle, in an interior point $x$, the first variation $h(x)$ of the metric is (and must be) an arbitrary symmetric matrix (at least up to a multiplicative constant, cf. pt. 2 & 3).
Note in particular that the metric $g(x)+varepsilon h(x)$ must have the same signature as $g(x)$ for sufficiently small $varepsilon$.
If the region is compact, we can use uniform continuity to argue that such sufficiently small $varepsilon$ exists globally.
To make the variation problem well-posed it is usually necessary to impose pertinent boundary conditions on $h$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you, can you give the details of these points?
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 25 '18 at 23:53
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let us sketch what's at stake:
Assuming that the Lagrangian density ${cal L}(x,g(x),partial g(x))$ is a differentiable function of the metric $g(x)$ (and its derivative), then in accordance with the variational principle, in an interior point $x$, the first variation $h(x)$ of the metric is (and must be) an arbitrary symmetric matrix (at least up to a multiplicative constant, cf. pt. 2 & 3).
Note in particular that the metric $g(x)+varepsilon h(x)$ must have the same signature as $g(x)$ for sufficiently small $varepsilon$.
If the region is compact, we can use uniform continuity to argue that such sufficiently small $varepsilon$ exists globally.
To make the variation problem well-posed it is usually necessary to impose pertinent boundary conditions on $h$.
$endgroup$
Let us sketch what's at stake:
Assuming that the Lagrangian density ${cal L}(x,g(x),partial g(x))$ is a differentiable function of the metric $g(x)$ (and its derivative), then in accordance with the variational principle, in an interior point $x$, the first variation $h(x)$ of the metric is (and must be) an arbitrary symmetric matrix (at least up to a multiplicative constant, cf. pt. 2 & 3).
Note in particular that the metric $g(x)+varepsilon h(x)$ must have the same signature as $g(x)$ for sufficiently small $varepsilon$.
If the region is compact, we can use uniform continuity to argue that such sufficiently small $varepsilon$ exists globally.
To make the variation problem well-posed it is usually necessary to impose pertinent boundary conditions on $h$.
edited Dec 24 '18 at 13:24
answered Dec 24 '18 at 4:21
QmechanicQmechanic
5,19711859
5,19711859
$begingroup$
Thank you, can you give the details of these points?
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 25 '18 at 23:53
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thank you, can you give the details of these points?
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 25 '18 at 23:53
$begingroup$
Thank you, can you give the details of these points?
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 25 '18 at 23:53
$begingroup$
Thank you, can you give the details of these points?
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 25 '18 at 23:53
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3049591%2fvariation-of-a-metric-g-with-signature-1-1-1-1%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
In what Lagrangian does the metric $g+varepsilon h$ appear for the problem of interest? See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linearized_gravity
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 22 '18 at 16:12
$begingroup$
@Winther I would like to have a formal approach to this question. Thanks anyway.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:15
$begingroup$
@J.G. I was thinking a generic Lagrangian and usually I think of variations of that form but we can consider if you want a generic variation $g_ε$ in this case we must say if the $delta g_ε$ are suitable for using Fundamental lemma of calculus of variations. I see that textbooks don't have attention on this problem.
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:26
1
$begingroup$
@asv Have you tried getting the equation of motion for $mathcal{L}=(g_{ab}+varepsilon h_{ab})partial^aphipartial^bphi$? What about $mathcal{L}=(g_{ab}+varepsilon h_{ab})(g_{cd}+varepsilon h_{cd})F^{ab}F^{cd}$ with $F^{ab}:=partial^a A^b-partial^b A^a$? I'm sure you could do it, but the choice of Lagrangian is the crux of your question. I don't know what you mean for it to be "generic".
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 22 '18 at 16:28
$begingroup$
@J.G. For generic I mean a one-parameter family of variations: $g(varepsilon)$ (for every $varepsilon$ a metric), $g: (-varepsilon, varepsilon) rightarrow MetricSpace$
$endgroup$
– asv
Dec 22 '18 at 16:37