Why not take a picture of a closer black hole?












56












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There are closer galaxies than Messier 87 for sure, even ours! It sparked my curiosity that they went with one 53 million light years away. Is there a reason for this?










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  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Because black holes are dangerous and the IRB wouldn't let them get too close.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    Apr 11 at 17:18










  • $begingroup$
    53 million ly is just a short trip down the road, galactically speaking.
    $endgroup$
    – PM 2Ring
    Apr 12 at 3:15










  • $begingroup$
    I'd like to ask, so as better understand your question: Why take a picture of a closer black hole?
    $endgroup$
    – Williham Totland
    Apr 12 at 22:52










  • $begingroup$
    Elliptical galaxy with a nice jet may have made M87 a very tempting target: duckduckgo.com/… Keep scrolling. The BH image looks to be taking over.
    $endgroup$
    – Wayfaring Stranger
    2 days ago
















56












$begingroup$


There are closer galaxies than Messier 87 for sure, even ours! It sparked my curiosity that they went with one 53 million light years away. Is there a reason for this?










share|improve this question







New contributor




Morgan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Because black holes are dangerous and the IRB wouldn't let them get too close.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    Apr 11 at 17:18










  • $begingroup$
    53 million ly is just a short trip down the road, galactically speaking.
    $endgroup$
    – PM 2Ring
    Apr 12 at 3:15










  • $begingroup$
    I'd like to ask, so as better understand your question: Why take a picture of a closer black hole?
    $endgroup$
    – Williham Totland
    Apr 12 at 22:52










  • $begingroup$
    Elliptical galaxy with a nice jet may have made M87 a very tempting target: duckduckgo.com/… Keep scrolling. The BH image looks to be taking over.
    $endgroup$
    – Wayfaring Stranger
    2 days ago














56












56








56


9



$begingroup$


There are closer galaxies than Messier 87 for sure, even ours! It sparked my curiosity that they went with one 53 million light years away. Is there a reason for this?










share|improve this question







New contributor




Morgan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




There are closer galaxies than Messier 87 for sure, even ours! It sparked my curiosity that they went with one 53 million light years away. Is there a reason for this?







black-hole supermassive-black-hole event-horizon-telescope






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share|improve this question







New contributor




Morgan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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asked Apr 10 at 23:44









MorganMorgan

383126




383126




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New contributor





Morgan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Because black holes are dangerous and the IRB wouldn't let them get too close.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    Apr 11 at 17:18










  • $begingroup$
    53 million ly is just a short trip down the road, galactically speaking.
    $endgroup$
    – PM 2Ring
    Apr 12 at 3:15










  • $begingroup$
    I'd like to ask, so as better understand your question: Why take a picture of a closer black hole?
    $endgroup$
    – Williham Totland
    Apr 12 at 22:52










  • $begingroup$
    Elliptical galaxy with a nice jet may have made M87 a very tempting target: duckduckgo.com/… Keep scrolling. The BH image looks to be taking over.
    $endgroup$
    – Wayfaring Stranger
    2 days ago














  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Because black holes are dangerous and the IRB wouldn't let them get too close.
    $endgroup$
    – David Richerby
    Apr 11 at 17:18










  • $begingroup$
    53 million ly is just a short trip down the road, galactically speaking.
    $endgroup$
    – PM 2Ring
    Apr 12 at 3:15










  • $begingroup$
    I'd like to ask, so as better understand your question: Why take a picture of a closer black hole?
    $endgroup$
    – Williham Totland
    Apr 12 at 22:52










  • $begingroup$
    Elliptical galaxy with a nice jet may have made M87 a very tempting target: duckduckgo.com/… Keep scrolling. The BH image looks to be taking over.
    $endgroup$
    – Wayfaring Stranger
    2 days ago








4




4




$begingroup$
Because black holes are dangerous and the IRB wouldn't let them get too close.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
Apr 11 at 17:18




$begingroup$
Because black holes are dangerous and the IRB wouldn't let them get too close.
$endgroup$
– David Richerby
Apr 11 at 17:18












$begingroup$
53 million ly is just a short trip down the road, galactically speaking.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
Apr 12 at 3:15




$begingroup$
53 million ly is just a short trip down the road, galactically speaking.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
Apr 12 at 3:15












$begingroup$
I'd like to ask, so as better understand your question: Why take a picture of a closer black hole?
$endgroup$
– Williham Totland
Apr 12 at 22:52




$begingroup$
I'd like to ask, so as better understand your question: Why take a picture of a closer black hole?
$endgroup$
– Williham Totland
Apr 12 at 22:52












$begingroup$
Elliptical galaxy with a nice jet may have made M87 a very tempting target: duckduckgo.com/… Keep scrolling. The BH image looks to be taking over.
$endgroup$
– Wayfaring Stranger
2 days ago




$begingroup$
Elliptical galaxy with a nice jet may have made M87 a very tempting target: duckduckgo.com/… Keep scrolling. The BH image looks to be taking over.
$endgroup$
– Wayfaring Stranger
2 days ago










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

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76












$begingroup$

I was surprised too when I first heard they were trying to image M87's black hole.



The short answer is because it's really, really big. It is 1500 times bigger (diameter) than our Sagittarius A*, and 2100 times farther away. This makes its apparent size about 70% of that of Sgr A*, which they are also attempting to image.



A cursory search of wikipedia's List of Largest black holes shows that there's no other black holes with a combination of size and closeness greater than these two.



A couple of other candidates are not too far off. Andromeda's black hole is 50x the size of ours, and at 100x the distance, it would appear half the size of Sgr A*. The Sombrero galaxy is 380 times farther way than Sgr A*, and has a black hole estimated to be 1 billion solar masses, which is 232 times Sr A*, resulting in an angular diameter about 60% of Sgr A*.



There appear to be many other considerations to which black holes were chosen, as explained in this similar question. At a guess these would include how obscured each black hole is with foreground dust/stars etc, how active (and therefore bright) the nuclei are, and their inclination w.r.t earth affecting which observatories could observe them at which times.



Edit: I've found another plausible candidate. NGC_1600 is 200 M light years away with a central black hole estimated to be 17 billion solar masses heavy. This would put it at about 40% the apparent diameter of Sgr A*.



black hole size comparison, self madeComparison of the apparent size of the largest nearby black holes



And of course obligatory XKCD to remind us how small these objects really appear.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 39




    $begingroup$
    Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
    $endgroup$
    – Florin Andrei
    Apr 11 at 4:20






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
    $endgroup$
    – pela
    Apr 11 at 9:16






  • 62




    $begingroup$
    @FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
    $endgroup$
    – Konrad Rudolph
    Apr 11 at 11:16






  • 10




    $begingroup$
    @KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
    $endgroup$
    – pela
    Apr 11 at 12:18






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
    $endgroup$
    – JBentley
    Apr 12 at 10:47





















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There are a few criteria necessary to see a black hole with the Event Horizon Telescope. They are, in importance:




  • Active Feeding: you need a thick accretion disk with lots of matter accreting onto the black hole. M87 fits this criteria, and is a glut, consuming about 90 Earth masses a day.

  • Apparent size. Even though it is 53 million light-years away, M87 is 6.5 billion solar masses. Since the radius of the event horizon scales linearly with mass, its distance is made up for by sheer scale.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 3




    $begingroup$
    Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
    $endgroup$
    – Chappo
    Apr 11 at 7:40






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
    $endgroup$
    – Barmar
    Apr 11 at 18:38



















18












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As Ingolifs says, Sgr A* and M87* are the obvious candidates. At the press conference, Heino Falcke explained why they got a picture of M87* first:




But it would take some more time because Sagittarius A Star is 1000 times faster and smaller. Its like a toddler who is moving constantly. In comparison, M87 is much slower, like a big bear.




— The Deccan Herald






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$endgroup$









  • 3




    $begingroup$
    That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
    $endgroup$
    – Sneftel
    Apr 12 at 12:04






  • 8




    $begingroup$
    @Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
    $endgroup$
    – Michael
    Apr 12 at 14:24










  • $begingroup$
    So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
    $endgroup$
    – David Tonhofer
    Apr 13 at 9:12












  • $begingroup$
    Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
    $endgroup$
    – David Tonhofer
    Apr 13 at 10:13



















12












$begingroup$

Another quick note - They are trying to get a photo of Sag. A*:



From Space.com




The project has been scrutinizing two black holes — the M87 behemoth, which harbors about 6.5 billion times the mass of Earth's sun, and our own Milky Way galaxy's central black hole, known as Sagittarius A*. This latter object, while still a supermassive black hole, is a runt compared to M87's beast, containing a mere 4.3 million solar masses.



Both of these objects are tough targets because of their immense distance from Earth. Sagittarius A* lies about 26,000 light-years from us, and M87's black hole is a whopping 53.5 million light-years away.



From our perspective, Sagittarius A*'s event horizon "is so small that it's the equivalent of seeing an orange on the moon or being able to read the newspaper in Los Angeles while you're sitting in New York City," Doeleman said during the SXSW event last month.



...



And in case you're wondering about Sagittarius A*: The EHT team hopes to get imagery of that supermassive black hole soon, Doeleman said today. The researchers looked at M87 first, and it's a bit easier to resolve than Sagittarius A* because it's less variable over short timescales, he explained.







share|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    0












    $begingroup$

    The difficulty in imaging anything on the visible-light spectrum is dust. Sagitarrius A is clouded by dust clouds which can be penetrated with infrared. The M87 fulfilled the criteria of being big and relatively close while at the same time enabling light to reflect off the event horizon and not being blocked by dust clouds.






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      5 Answers
      5






      active

      oldest

      votes








      5 Answers
      5






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

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      76












      $begingroup$

      I was surprised too when I first heard they were trying to image M87's black hole.



      The short answer is because it's really, really big. It is 1500 times bigger (diameter) than our Sagittarius A*, and 2100 times farther away. This makes its apparent size about 70% of that of Sgr A*, which they are also attempting to image.



      A cursory search of wikipedia's List of Largest black holes shows that there's no other black holes with a combination of size and closeness greater than these two.



      A couple of other candidates are not too far off. Andromeda's black hole is 50x the size of ours, and at 100x the distance, it would appear half the size of Sgr A*. The Sombrero galaxy is 380 times farther way than Sgr A*, and has a black hole estimated to be 1 billion solar masses, which is 232 times Sr A*, resulting in an angular diameter about 60% of Sgr A*.



      There appear to be many other considerations to which black holes were chosen, as explained in this similar question. At a guess these would include how obscured each black hole is with foreground dust/stars etc, how active (and therefore bright) the nuclei are, and their inclination w.r.t earth affecting which observatories could observe them at which times.



      Edit: I've found another plausible candidate. NGC_1600 is 200 M light years away with a central black hole estimated to be 17 billion solar masses heavy. This would put it at about 40% the apparent diameter of Sgr A*.



      black hole size comparison, self madeComparison of the apparent size of the largest nearby black holes



      And of course obligatory XKCD to remind us how small these objects really appear.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$









      • 39




        $begingroup$
        Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
        $endgroup$
        – Florin Andrei
        Apr 11 at 4:20






      • 4




        $begingroup$
        @FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
        $endgroup$
        – pela
        Apr 11 at 9:16






      • 62




        $begingroup$
        @FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
        $endgroup$
        – Konrad Rudolph
        Apr 11 at 11:16






      • 10




        $begingroup$
        @KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
        $endgroup$
        – pela
        Apr 11 at 12:18






      • 4




        $begingroup$
        I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
        $endgroup$
        – JBentley
        Apr 12 at 10:47


















      76












      $begingroup$

      I was surprised too when I first heard they were trying to image M87's black hole.



      The short answer is because it's really, really big. It is 1500 times bigger (diameter) than our Sagittarius A*, and 2100 times farther away. This makes its apparent size about 70% of that of Sgr A*, which they are also attempting to image.



      A cursory search of wikipedia's List of Largest black holes shows that there's no other black holes with a combination of size and closeness greater than these two.



      A couple of other candidates are not too far off. Andromeda's black hole is 50x the size of ours, and at 100x the distance, it would appear half the size of Sgr A*. The Sombrero galaxy is 380 times farther way than Sgr A*, and has a black hole estimated to be 1 billion solar masses, which is 232 times Sr A*, resulting in an angular diameter about 60% of Sgr A*.



      There appear to be many other considerations to which black holes were chosen, as explained in this similar question. At a guess these would include how obscured each black hole is with foreground dust/stars etc, how active (and therefore bright) the nuclei are, and their inclination w.r.t earth affecting which observatories could observe them at which times.



      Edit: I've found another plausible candidate. NGC_1600 is 200 M light years away with a central black hole estimated to be 17 billion solar masses heavy. This would put it at about 40% the apparent diameter of Sgr A*.



      black hole size comparison, self madeComparison of the apparent size of the largest nearby black holes



      And of course obligatory XKCD to remind us how small these objects really appear.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$









      • 39




        $begingroup$
        Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
        $endgroup$
        – Florin Andrei
        Apr 11 at 4:20






      • 4




        $begingroup$
        @FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
        $endgroup$
        – pela
        Apr 11 at 9:16






      • 62




        $begingroup$
        @FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
        $endgroup$
        – Konrad Rudolph
        Apr 11 at 11:16






      • 10




        $begingroup$
        @KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
        $endgroup$
        – pela
        Apr 11 at 12:18






      • 4




        $begingroup$
        I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
        $endgroup$
        – JBentley
        Apr 12 at 10:47
















      76












      76








      76





      $begingroup$

      I was surprised too when I first heard they were trying to image M87's black hole.



      The short answer is because it's really, really big. It is 1500 times bigger (diameter) than our Sagittarius A*, and 2100 times farther away. This makes its apparent size about 70% of that of Sgr A*, which they are also attempting to image.



      A cursory search of wikipedia's List of Largest black holes shows that there's no other black holes with a combination of size and closeness greater than these two.



      A couple of other candidates are not too far off. Andromeda's black hole is 50x the size of ours, and at 100x the distance, it would appear half the size of Sgr A*. The Sombrero galaxy is 380 times farther way than Sgr A*, and has a black hole estimated to be 1 billion solar masses, which is 232 times Sr A*, resulting in an angular diameter about 60% of Sgr A*.



      There appear to be many other considerations to which black holes were chosen, as explained in this similar question. At a guess these would include how obscured each black hole is with foreground dust/stars etc, how active (and therefore bright) the nuclei are, and their inclination w.r.t earth affecting which observatories could observe them at which times.



      Edit: I've found another plausible candidate. NGC_1600 is 200 M light years away with a central black hole estimated to be 17 billion solar masses heavy. This would put it at about 40% the apparent diameter of Sgr A*.



      black hole size comparison, self madeComparison of the apparent size of the largest nearby black holes



      And of course obligatory XKCD to remind us how small these objects really appear.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      I was surprised too when I first heard they were trying to image M87's black hole.



      The short answer is because it's really, really big. It is 1500 times bigger (diameter) than our Sagittarius A*, and 2100 times farther away. This makes its apparent size about 70% of that of Sgr A*, which they are also attempting to image.



      A cursory search of wikipedia's List of Largest black holes shows that there's no other black holes with a combination of size and closeness greater than these two.



      A couple of other candidates are not too far off. Andromeda's black hole is 50x the size of ours, and at 100x the distance, it would appear half the size of Sgr A*. The Sombrero galaxy is 380 times farther way than Sgr A*, and has a black hole estimated to be 1 billion solar masses, which is 232 times Sr A*, resulting in an angular diameter about 60% of Sgr A*.



      There appear to be many other considerations to which black holes were chosen, as explained in this similar question. At a guess these would include how obscured each black hole is with foreground dust/stars etc, how active (and therefore bright) the nuclei are, and their inclination w.r.t earth affecting which observatories could observe them at which times.



      Edit: I've found another plausible candidate. NGC_1600 is 200 M light years away with a central black hole estimated to be 17 billion solar masses heavy. This would put it at about 40% the apparent diameter of Sgr A*.



      black hole size comparison, self madeComparison of the apparent size of the largest nearby black holes



      And of course obligatory XKCD to remind us how small these objects really appear.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Apr 12 at 20:22

























      answered Apr 11 at 0:23









      IngolifsIngolifs

      2,0531922




      2,0531922








      • 39




        $begingroup$
        Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
        $endgroup$
        – Florin Andrei
        Apr 11 at 4:20






      • 4




        $begingroup$
        @FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
        $endgroup$
        – pela
        Apr 11 at 9:16






      • 62




        $begingroup$
        @FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
        $endgroup$
        – Konrad Rudolph
        Apr 11 at 11:16






      • 10




        $begingroup$
        @KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
        $endgroup$
        – pela
        Apr 11 at 12:18






      • 4




        $begingroup$
        I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
        $endgroup$
        – JBentley
        Apr 12 at 10:47
















      • 39




        $begingroup$
        Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
        $endgroup$
        – Florin Andrei
        Apr 11 at 4:20






      • 4




        $begingroup$
        @FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
        $endgroup$
        – pela
        Apr 11 at 9:16






      • 62




        $begingroup$
        @FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
        $endgroup$
        – Konrad Rudolph
        Apr 11 at 11:16






      • 10




        $begingroup$
        @KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
        $endgroup$
        – pela
        Apr 11 at 12:18






      • 4




        $begingroup$
        I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
        $endgroup$
        – JBentley
        Apr 12 at 10:47










      39




      39




      $begingroup$
      Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
      $endgroup$
      – Florin Andrei
      Apr 11 at 4:20




      $begingroup$
      Don't forget to say space is kind of dusty in the direction of Sgr A*. It's quite a bit clearer in the direction of M87.
      $endgroup$
      – Florin Andrei
      Apr 11 at 4:20




      4




      4




      $begingroup$
      @FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
      $endgroup$
      – pela
      Apr 11 at 9:16




      $begingroup$
      @FlorinAndrei Actually that doesn't really matter much, since the observations are made in radio where there's barely any extinction.
      $endgroup$
      – pela
      Apr 11 at 9:16




      62




      62




      $begingroup$
      @FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
      $endgroup$
      – Konrad Rudolph
      Apr 11 at 11:16




      $begingroup$
      @FlorinAndrei It may be dusty in the direction of Sgr A* but it’s messier in the direction of M87.
      $endgroup$
      – Konrad Rudolph
      Apr 11 at 11:16




      10




      10




      $begingroup$
      @KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
      $endgroup$
      – pela
      Apr 11 at 12:18




      $begingroup$
      @KonradRudolph I see what you did there :D
      $endgroup$
      – pela
      Apr 11 at 12:18




      4




      4




      $begingroup$
      I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
      $endgroup$
      – JBentley
      Apr 12 at 10:47






      $begingroup$
      I'm not sure this answer really fully answers the question. In the "short answer" paragraph, it states that M87's apparent size is 70% that of Sgr A*. That, by itself, would appear to make it a worse candidate than Sgr A*. The question wants to know why a closer black hole wasn't chosen. Sgr A* is closer - why not choose it (and indeed the question even wants to know why not "even ours")? The answer would be improved by elaborating on the other factors that make M87 a better candidate than Sgr A*
      $endgroup$
      – JBentley
      Apr 12 at 10:47













      33












      $begingroup$

      There are a few criteria necessary to see a black hole with the Event Horizon Telescope. They are, in importance:




      • Active Feeding: you need a thick accretion disk with lots of matter accreting onto the black hole. M87 fits this criteria, and is a glut, consuming about 90 Earth masses a day.

      • Apparent size. Even though it is 53 million light-years away, M87 is 6.5 billion solar masses. Since the radius of the event horizon scales linearly with mass, its distance is made up for by sheer scale.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$









      • 3




        $begingroup$
        Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
        $endgroup$
        – Chappo
        Apr 11 at 7:40






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
        $endgroup$
        – Barmar
        Apr 11 at 18:38
















      33












      $begingroup$

      There are a few criteria necessary to see a black hole with the Event Horizon Telescope. They are, in importance:




      • Active Feeding: you need a thick accretion disk with lots of matter accreting onto the black hole. M87 fits this criteria, and is a glut, consuming about 90 Earth masses a day.

      • Apparent size. Even though it is 53 million light-years away, M87 is 6.5 billion solar masses. Since the radius of the event horizon scales linearly with mass, its distance is made up for by sheer scale.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$









      • 3




        $begingroup$
        Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
        $endgroup$
        – Chappo
        Apr 11 at 7:40






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
        $endgroup$
        – Barmar
        Apr 11 at 18:38














      33












      33








      33





      $begingroup$

      There are a few criteria necessary to see a black hole with the Event Horizon Telescope. They are, in importance:




      • Active Feeding: you need a thick accretion disk with lots of matter accreting onto the black hole. M87 fits this criteria, and is a glut, consuming about 90 Earth masses a day.

      • Apparent size. Even though it is 53 million light-years away, M87 is 6.5 billion solar masses. Since the radius of the event horizon scales linearly with mass, its distance is made up for by sheer scale.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      There are a few criteria necessary to see a black hole with the Event Horizon Telescope. They are, in importance:




      • Active Feeding: you need a thick accretion disk with lots of matter accreting onto the black hole. M87 fits this criteria, and is a glut, consuming about 90 Earth masses a day.

      • Apparent size. Even though it is 53 million light-years away, M87 is 6.5 billion solar masses. Since the radius of the event horizon scales linearly with mass, its distance is made up for by sheer scale.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Apr 11 at 5:27









      Cendolt

      677




      677










      answered Apr 11 at 0:55









      cmscms

      53615




      53615








      • 3




        $begingroup$
        Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
        $endgroup$
        – Chappo
        Apr 11 at 7:40






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
        $endgroup$
        – Barmar
        Apr 11 at 18:38














      • 3




        $begingroup$
        Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
        $endgroup$
        – Chappo
        Apr 11 at 7:40






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
        $endgroup$
        – Barmar
        Apr 11 at 18:38








      3




      3




      $begingroup$
      Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
      $endgroup$
      – Chappo
      Apr 11 at 7:40




      $begingroup$
      Calculates quickly... the M87 BH consumes one Earth mass every 16 MINUTES!
      $endgroup$
      – Chappo
      Apr 11 at 7:40




      2




      2




      $begingroup$
      Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
      $endgroup$
      – Barmar
      Apr 11 at 18:38




      $begingroup$
      Mmmmm, Earth-masses. :)
      $endgroup$
      – Barmar
      Apr 11 at 18:38











      18












      $begingroup$

      As Ingolifs says, Sgr A* and M87* are the obvious candidates. At the press conference, Heino Falcke explained why they got a picture of M87* first:




      But it would take some more time because Sagittarius A Star is 1000 times faster and smaller. Its like a toddler who is moving constantly. In comparison, M87 is much slower, like a big bear.




      — The Deccan Herald






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      user24582 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      $endgroup$









      • 3




        $begingroup$
        That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
        $endgroup$
        – Sneftel
        Apr 12 at 12:04






      • 8




        $begingroup$
        @Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
        $endgroup$
        – Michael
        Apr 12 at 14:24










      • $begingroup$
        So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
        $endgroup$
        – David Tonhofer
        Apr 13 at 9:12












      • $begingroup$
        Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
        $endgroup$
        – David Tonhofer
        Apr 13 at 10:13
















      18












      $begingroup$

      As Ingolifs says, Sgr A* and M87* are the obvious candidates. At the press conference, Heino Falcke explained why they got a picture of M87* first:




      But it would take some more time because Sagittarius A Star is 1000 times faster and smaller. Its like a toddler who is moving constantly. In comparison, M87 is much slower, like a big bear.




      — The Deccan Herald






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      user24582 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      $endgroup$









      • 3




        $begingroup$
        That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
        $endgroup$
        – Sneftel
        Apr 12 at 12:04






      • 8




        $begingroup$
        @Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
        $endgroup$
        – Michael
        Apr 12 at 14:24










      • $begingroup$
        So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
        $endgroup$
        – David Tonhofer
        Apr 13 at 9:12












      • $begingroup$
        Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
        $endgroup$
        – David Tonhofer
        Apr 13 at 10:13














      18












      18








      18





      $begingroup$

      As Ingolifs says, Sgr A* and M87* are the obvious candidates. At the press conference, Heino Falcke explained why they got a picture of M87* first:




      But it would take some more time because Sagittarius A Star is 1000 times faster and smaller. Its like a toddler who is moving constantly. In comparison, M87 is much slower, like a big bear.




      — The Deccan Herald






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      user24582 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      $endgroup$



      As Ingolifs says, Sgr A* and M87* are the obvious candidates. At the press conference, Heino Falcke explained why they got a picture of M87* first:




      But it would take some more time because Sagittarius A Star is 1000 times faster and smaller. Its like a toddler who is moving constantly. In comparison, M87 is much slower, like a big bear.




      — The Deccan Herald







      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      user24582 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer






      New contributor




      user24582 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      answered Apr 11 at 9:10









      user24582user24582

      2812




      2812




      New contributor




      user24582 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.





      New contributor





      user24582 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      user24582 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      • 3




        $begingroup$
        That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
        $endgroup$
        – Sneftel
        Apr 12 at 12:04






      • 8




        $begingroup$
        @Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
        $endgroup$
        – Michael
        Apr 12 at 14:24










      • $begingroup$
        So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
        $endgroup$
        – David Tonhofer
        Apr 13 at 9:12












      • $begingroup$
        Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
        $endgroup$
        – David Tonhofer
        Apr 13 at 10:13














      • 3




        $begingroup$
        That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
        $endgroup$
        – Sneftel
        Apr 12 at 12:04






      • 8




        $begingroup$
        @Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
        $endgroup$
        – Michael
        Apr 12 at 14:24










      • $begingroup$
        So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
        $endgroup$
        – David Tonhofer
        Apr 13 at 9:12












      • $begingroup$
        Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
        $endgroup$
        – David Tonhofer
        Apr 13 at 10:13








      3




      3




      $begingroup$
      That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
      $endgroup$
      – Sneftel
      Apr 12 at 12:04




      $begingroup$
      That analogy doesn't really work. I can reliably confirm that a toddler runs slower than a bear.
      $endgroup$
      – Sneftel
      Apr 12 at 12:04




      8




      8




      $begingroup$
      @Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
      $endgroup$
      – Michael
      Apr 12 at 14:24




      $begingroup$
      @Sneftel I'm so sorry for your loss
      $endgroup$
      – Michael
      Apr 12 at 14:24












      $begingroup$
      So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
      $endgroup$
      – David Tonhofer
      Apr 13 at 9:12






      $begingroup$
      So M87* is like Mord, the flying murderous Bear from one of Jeff Vandermeer's novels? It's a good name for a Black Hole.
      $endgroup$
      – David Tonhofer
      Apr 13 at 9:12














      $begingroup$
      Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
      $endgroup$
      – David Tonhofer
      Apr 13 at 10:13




      $begingroup$
      Ah, it's got an official name now: "Powehi", which apparently is Hawaiian for "embellished dark source of unending creation." which sounds really inappropriate for a maximum intensity shredder or a dark trouser leg from the universe's future. Greg Egan once proposed "Goudal-e-Markaz" ("Pit at Center") for Sgr A*, which sounds really good.
      $endgroup$
      – David Tonhofer
      Apr 13 at 10:13











      12












      $begingroup$

      Another quick note - They are trying to get a photo of Sag. A*:



      From Space.com




      The project has been scrutinizing two black holes — the M87 behemoth, which harbors about 6.5 billion times the mass of Earth's sun, and our own Milky Way galaxy's central black hole, known as Sagittarius A*. This latter object, while still a supermassive black hole, is a runt compared to M87's beast, containing a mere 4.3 million solar masses.



      Both of these objects are tough targets because of their immense distance from Earth. Sagittarius A* lies about 26,000 light-years from us, and M87's black hole is a whopping 53.5 million light-years away.



      From our perspective, Sagittarius A*'s event horizon "is so small that it's the equivalent of seeing an orange on the moon or being able to read the newspaper in Los Angeles while you're sitting in New York City," Doeleman said during the SXSW event last month.



      ...



      And in case you're wondering about Sagittarius A*: The EHT team hopes to get imagery of that supermassive black hole soon, Doeleman said today. The researchers looked at M87 first, and it's a bit easier to resolve than Sagittarius A* because it's less variable over short timescales, he explained.







      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$


















        12












        $begingroup$

        Another quick note - They are trying to get a photo of Sag. A*:



        From Space.com




        The project has been scrutinizing two black holes — the M87 behemoth, which harbors about 6.5 billion times the mass of Earth's sun, and our own Milky Way galaxy's central black hole, known as Sagittarius A*. This latter object, while still a supermassive black hole, is a runt compared to M87's beast, containing a mere 4.3 million solar masses.



        Both of these objects are tough targets because of their immense distance from Earth. Sagittarius A* lies about 26,000 light-years from us, and M87's black hole is a whopping 53.5 million light-years away.



        From our perspective, Sagittarius A*'s event horizon "is so small that it's the equivalent of seeing an orange on the moon or being able to read the newspaper in Los Angeles while you're sitting in New York City," Doeleman said during the SXSW event last month.



        ...



        And in case you're wondering about Sagittarius A*: The EHT team hopes to get imagery of that supermassive black hole soon, Doeleman said today. The researchers looked at M87 first, and it's a bit easier to resolve than Sagittarius A* because it's less variable over short timescales, he explained.







        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$
















          12












          12








          12





          $begingroup$

          Another quick note - They are trying to get a photo of Sag. A*:



          From Space.com




          The project has been scrutinizing two black holes — the M87 behemoth, which harbors about 6.5 billion times the mass of Earth's sun, and our own Milky Way galaxy's central black hole, known as Sagittarius A*. This latter object, while still a supermassive black hole, is a runt compared to M87's beast, containing a mere 4.3 million solar masses.



          Both of these objects are tough targets because of their immense distance from Earth. Sagittarius A* lies about 26,000 light-years from us, and M87's black hole is a whopping 53.5 million light-years away.



          From our perspective, Sagittarius A*'s event horizon "is so small that it's the equivalent of seeing an orange on the moon or being able to read the newspaper in Los Angeles while you're sitting in New York City," Doeleman said during the SXSW event last month.



          ...



          And in case you're wondering about Sagittarius A*: The EHT team hopes to get imagery of that supermassive black hole soon, Doeleman said today. The researchers looked at M87 first, and it's a bit easier to resolve than Sagittarius A* because it's less variable over short timescales, he explained.







          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Another quick note - They are trying to get a photo of Sag. A*:



          From Space.com




          The project has been scrutinizing two black holes — the M87 behemoth, which harbors about 6.5 billion times the mass of Earth's sun, and our own Milky Way galaxy's central black hole, known as Sagittarius A*. This latter object, while still a supermassive black hole, is a runt compared to M87's beast, containing a mere 4.3 million solar masses.



          Both of these objects are tough targets because of their immense distance from Earth. Sagittarius A* lies about 26,000 light-years from us, and M87's black hole is a whopping 53.5 million light-years away.



          From our perspective, Sagittarius A*'s event horizon "is so small that it's the equivalent of seeing an orange on the moon or being able to read the newspaper in Los Angeles while you're sitting in New York City," Doeleman said during the SXSW event last month.



          ...



          And in case you're wondering about Sagittarius A*: The EHT team hopes to get imagery of that supermassive black hole soon, Doeleman said today. The researchers looked at M87 first, and it's a bit easier to resolve than Sagittarius A* because it's less variable over short timescales, he explained.








          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Apr 11 at 14:55

























          answered Apr 11 at 14:48









          BruceWayneBruceWayne

          25818




          25818























              0












              $begingroup$

              The difficulty in imaging anything on the visible-light spectrum is dust. Sagitarrius A is clouded by dust clouds which can be penetrated with infrared. The M87 fulfilled the criteria of being big and relatively close while at the same time enabling light to reflect off the event horizon and not being blocked by dust clouds.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                0












                $begingroup$

                The difficulty in imaging anything on the visible-light spectrum is dust. Sagitarrius A is clouded by dust clouds which can be penetrated with infrared. The M87 fulfilled the criteria of being big and relatively close while at the same time enabling light to reflect off the event horizon and not being blocked by dust clouds.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  The difficulty in imaging anything on the visible-light spectrum is dust. Sagitarrius A is clouded by dust clouds which can be penetrated with infrared. The M87 fulfilled the criteria of being big and relatively close while at the same time enabling light to reflect off the event horizon and not being blocked by dust clouds.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  The difficulty in imaging anything on the visible-light spectrum is dust. Sagitarrius A is clouded by dust clouds which can be penetrated with infrared. The M87 fulfilled the criteria of being big and relatively close while at the same time enabling light to reflect off the event horizon and not being blocked by dust clouds.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Apr 13 at 22:46









                  Danny FDanny F

                  1234




                  1234






















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