Limits for sine and cosine functions
Recently I took a test where I was given these two limits to evaluate:
$lim_limits{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}}{h}$ and $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos(x+h)-cos{(x)}}{h}.$ I used sine and cosine addition formulas and found the value of each limit individually, eventually canceling out $sin xcdot frac1h$ and $cos xcdot frac1h$ because I learned that we can evaluate limits piece by piece. As a result, I got $cos x $ and $-sin x$ as my two answers. However, my teacher marked it wrong saying that we cannot cancel $sin{x}cdotfrac1h$ or $cos{x}cdotfrac1h$ because those limits do not exist. Can someone please explain why this doesn't work? I thought that we can cancel those limits out since we never look at $0,$ just around $0,$ when evaluating these two limits.
Sine: $$frac{sin(x+h)-sin(x)}h=frac{sin(x)cos(h)+sin(h)cos(x)}h-frac{sin(x)}h$$
$$=sin(x)frac1h+cos(x)-sin(x)frac1h=cos(x)$$
Cosine: $$frac{cos(x+h)-cos(x)}h=frac{cos(x)cos(h)-sin(x)sin(h)}h-cos(x)frac1h$$
$$=cos(x)frac1h-sin(x)cdot1-cos(x)frac1h=-sin(x)$$
Note: I am allowed to assume $lim_limits{xto 0} frac{sin(h)}h=1,lim_limits{xto 0} frac{cos(h)-1}h=0.$
calculus limits trigonometry
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show 1 more comment
Recently I took a test where I was given these two limits to evaluate:
$lim_limits{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}}{h}$ and $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos(x+h)-cos{(x)}}{h}.$ I used sine and cosine addition formulas and found the value of each limit individually, eventually canceling out $sin xcdot frac1h$ and $cos xcdot frac1h$ because I learned that we can evaluate limits piece by piece. As a result, I got $cos x $ and $-sin x$ as my two answers. However, my teacher marked it wrong saying that we cannot cancel $sin{x}cdotfrac1h$ or $cos{x}cdotfrac1h$ because those limits do not exist. Can someone please explain why this doesn't work? I thought that we can cancel those limits out since we never look at $0,$ just around $0,$ when evaluating these two limits.
Sine: $$frac{sin(x+h)-sin(x)}h=frac{sin(x)cos(h)+sin(h)cos(x)}h-frac{sin(x)}h$$
$$=sin(x)frac1h+cos(x)-sin(x)frac1h=cos(x)$$
Cosine: $$frac{cos(x+h)-cos(x)}h=frac{cos(x)cos(h)-sin(x)sin(h)}h-cos(x)frac1h$$
$$=cos(x)frac1h-sin(x)cdot1-cos(x)frac1h=-sin(x)$$
Note: I am allowed to assume $lim_limits{xto 0} frac{sin(h)}h=1,lim_limits{xto 0} frac{cos(h)-1}h=0.$
calculus limits trigonometry
1
Your answers are correct. (Those are the derivatives of $sin x$ and $cos x$.) Can you show your work?
– KM101
Nov 24 at 17:42
Show us your entire work. I cannot follow verbal descriptions.
– Sean Roberson
Nov 24 at 17:43
You can cancel out $frac{sin(h)}{h}$ when $h$ tends to $0$, but not $frac{cos(h)}{h}$ as this limit tends to infinity
– Sauhard Sharma
Nov 24 at 17:43
1
And by the way, you can only "cancel" when both limits exist. Note that $lim_{h to 0} 1/h$ does not exist.
– Sean Roberson
Nov 24 at 17:44
Use math.stackexchange.com/questions/75130/…. mathworld.wolfram.com/ProsthaphaeresisFormulas.html
– lab bhattacharjee
Nov 24 at 17:52
|
show 1 more comment
Recently I took a test where I was given these two limits to evaluate:
$lim_limits{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}}{h}$ and $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos(x+h)-cos{(x)}}{h}.$ I used sine and cosine addition formulas and found the value of each limit individually, eventually canceling out $sin xcdot frac1h$ and $cos xcdot frac1h$ because I learned that we can evaluate limits piece by piece. As a result, I got $cos x $ and $-sin x$ as my two answers. However, my teacher marked it wrong saying that we cannot cancel $sin{x}cdotfrac1h$ or $cos{x}cdotfrac1h$ because those limits do not exist. Can someone please explain why this doesn't work? I thought that we can cancel those limits out since we never look at $0,$ just around $0,$ when evaluating these two limits.
Sine: $$frac{sin(x+h)-sin(x)}h=frac{sin(x)cos(h)+sin(h)cos(x)}h-frac{sin(x)}h$$
$$=sin(x)frac1h+cos(x)-sin(x)frac1h=cos(x)$$
Cosine: $$frac{cos(x+h)-cos(x)}h=frac{cos(x)cos(h)-sin(x)sin(h)}h-cos(x)frac1h$$
$$=cos(x)frac1h-sin(x)cdot1-cos(x)frac1h=-sin(x)$$
Note: I am allowed to assume $lim_limits{xto 0} frac{sin(h)}h=1,lim_limits{xto 0} frac{cos(h)-1}h=0.$
calculus limits trigonometry
Recently I took a test where I was given these two limits to evaluate:
$lim_limits{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}}{h}$ and $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos(x+h)-cos{(x)}}{h}.$ I used sine and cosine addition formulas and found the value of each limit individually, eventually canceling out $sin xcdot frac1h$ and $cos xcdot frac1h$ because I learned that we can evaluate limits piece by piece. As a result, I got $cos x $ and $-sin x$ as my two answers. However, my teacher marked it wrong saying that we cannot cancel $sin{x}cdotfrac1h$ or $cos{x}cdotfrac1h$ because those limits do not exist. Can someone please explain why this doesn't work? I thought that we can cancel those limits out since we never look at $0,$ just around $0,$ when evaluating these two limits.
Sine: $$frac{sin(x+h)-sin(x)}h=frac{sin(x)cos(h)+sin(h)cos(x)}h-frac{sin(x)}h$$
$$=sin(x)frac1h+cos(x)-sin(x)frac1h=cos(x)$$
Cosine: $$frac{cos(x+h)-cos(x)}h=frac{cos(x)cos(h)-sin(x)sin(h)}h-cos(x)frac1h$$
$$=cos(x)frac1h-sin(x)cdot1-cos(x)frac1h=-sin(x)$$
Note: I am allowed to assume $lim_limits{xto 0} frac{sin(h)}h=1,lim_limits{xto 0} frac{cos(h)-1}h=0.$
calculus limits trigonometry
calculus limits trigonometry
edited Nov 24 at 18:00
KM101
4,758421
4,758421
asked Nov 24 at 17:38
Jason Kim
602118
602118
1
Your answers are correct. (Those are the derivatives of $sin x$ and $cos x$.) Can you show your work?
– KM101
Nov 24 at 17:42
Show us your entire work. I cannot follow verbal descriptions.
– Sean Roberson
Nov 24 at 17:43
You can cancel out $frac{sin(h)}{h}$ when $h$ tends to $0$, but not $frac{cos(h)}{h}$ as this limit tends to infinity
– Sauhard Sharma
Nov 24 at 17:43
1
And by the way, you can only "cancel" when both limits exist. Note that $lim_{h to 0} 1/h$ does not exist.
– Sean Roberson
Nov 24 at 17:44
Use math.stackexchange.com/questions/75130/…. mathworld.wolfram.com/ProsthaphaeresisFormulas.html
– lab bhattacharjee
Nov 24 at 17:52
|
show 1 more comment
1
Your answers are correct. (Those are the derivatives of $sin x$ and $cos x$.) Can you show your work?
– KM101
Nov 24 at 17:42
Show us your entire work. I cannot follow verbal descriptions.
– Sean Roberson
Nov 24 at 17:43
You can cancel out $frac{sin(h)}{h}$ when $h$ tends to $0$, but not $frac{cos(h)}{h}$ as this limit tends to infinity
– Sauhard Sharma
Nov 24 at 17:43
1
And by the way, you can only "cancel" when both limits exist. Note that $lim_{h to 0} 1/h$ does not exist.
– Sean Roberson
Nov 24 at 17:44
Use math.stackexchange.com/questions/75130/…. mathworld.wolfram.com/ProsthaphaeresisFormulas.html
– lab bhattacharjee
Nov 24 at 17:52
1
1
Your answers are correct. (Those are the derivatives of $sin x$ and $cos x$.) Can you show your work?
– KM101
Nov 24 at 17:42
Your answers are correct. (Those are the derivatives of $sin x$ and $cos x$.) Can you show your work?
– KM101
Nov 24 at 17:42
Show us your entire work. I cannot follow verbal descriptions.
– Sean Roberson
Nov 24 at 17:43
Show us your entire work. I cannot follow verbal descriptions.
– Sean Roberson
Nov 24 at 17:43
You can cancel out $frac{sin(h)}{h}$ when $h$ tends to $0$, but not $frac{cos(h)}{h}$ as this limit tends to infinity
– Sauhard Sharma
Nov 24 at 17:43
You can cancel out $frac{sin(h)}{h}$ when $h$ tends to $0$, but not $frac{cos(h)}{h}$ as this limit tends to infinity
– Sauhard Sharma
Nov 24 at 17:43
1
1
And by the way, you can only "cancel" when both limits exist. Note that $lim_{h to 0} 1/h$ does not exist.
– Sean Roberson
Nov 24 at 17:44
And by the way, you can only "cancel" when both limits exist. Note that $lim_{h to 0} 1/h$ does not exist.
– Sean Roberson
Nov 24 at 17:44
Use math.stackexchange.com/questions/75130/…. mathworld.wolfram.com/ProsthaphaeresisFormulas.html
– lab bhattacharjee
Nov 24 at 17:52
Use math.stackexchange.com/questions/75130/…. mathworld.wolfram.com/ProsthaphaeresisFormulas.html
– lab bhattacharjee
Nov 24 at 17:52
|
show 1 more comment
2 Answers
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You broke up the limits incorrectly. That can be done only when the individual limits exist. $color{red}{lim_limits{h to 0} frac{sin x}{h}}$ and $color{red}{lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos x}{h}}$ do NOT exist.
Here is how you can solve the first limit properly.
$$lim_{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin x}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{color{blue}{sin xcos h}+cos xsin hcolor{blue}{-sin x}}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{color{blue}{sin x(cos h-1)}+cos xsin h}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{sin x(cos h-1)}{h}+lim_{h to 0}frac{cos xsin h}{h}$$
$$= sin xcdotlim_{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h}+cos xcdotlim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}$$
Using $lim_limits{h to 0} frac{sin h}{h} = 1$ and $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h} = 0$, you get
$$= sin xcdot 0 + cos xcdot 1 = cos x$$
Notice how the individual limits exist. Therefore, the procedure is correct. Can you use the same way to solve for the second limit?
Note that $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos x}{h}=0$ for $cos x =0$ then it is not always true that it doesn't exist.
– gimusi
Nov 24 at 18:11
Sorry for the nitpicking but it is not correct state that the limits doesn't exist at all the doesn't exist when $sin xneq 0$ and $cos x neq 0$. I know that it is a detail but I think it should be stated properly.
– gimusi
Nov 25 at 20:54
add a comment |
That's the standard way to find the derivatives for $sin x$ and $cos x$ by the definition.
Your way was not correct since as $hto 0$ we have $sin x/h not to 0$, to proceed properly for the first one we have
$$sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}=sin xcos h+sin hcos x-sin x$$
and then
$$lim_{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}}{h}=lim_{h to 0}frac{sin xcos h+sin hcos x-sin x}{h}$$
$$=sin x cdotlim_{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h}+cos xlim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}$$
and from here to conclude we need to use standard limits
- $lim_{h to 0}frac{1-cos h}{h^2}=frac12 implies lim_{h to 0}frac{1-cos h}{h}=0$
- $lim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}=1$
For the other one we can proceed in a similar way.
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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You broke up the limits incorrectly. That can be done only when the individual limits exist. $color{red}{lim_limits{h to 0} frac{sin x}{h}}$ and $color{red}{lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos x}{h}}$ do NOT exist.
Here is how you can solve the first limit properly.
$$lim_{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin x}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{color{blue}{sin xcos h}+cos xsin hcolor{blue}{-sin x}}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{color{blue}{sin x(cos h-1)}+cos xsin h}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{sin x(cos h-1)}{h}+lim_{h to 0}frac{cos xsin h}{h}$$
$$= sin xcdotlim_{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h}+cos xcdotlim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}$$
Using $lim_limits{h to 0} frac{sin h}{h} = 1$ and $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h} = 0$, you get
$$= sin xcdot 0 + cos xcdot 1 = cos x$$
Notice how the individual limits exist. Therefore, the procedure is correct. Can you use the same way to solve for the second limit?
Note that $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos x}{h}=0$ for $cos x =0$ then it is not always true that it doesn't exist.
– gimusi
Nov 24 at 18:11
Sorry for the nitpicking but it is not correct state that the limits doesn't exist at all the doesn't exist when $sin xneq 0$ and $cos x neq 0$. I know that it is a detail but I think it should be stated properly.
– gimusi
Nov 25 at 20:54
add a comment |
You broke up the limits incorrectly. That can be done only when the individual limits exist. $color{red}{lim_limits{h to 0} frac{sin x}{h}}$ and $color{red}{lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos x}{h}}$ do NOT exist.
Here is how you can solve the first limit properly.
$$lim_{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin x}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{color{blue}{sin xcos h}+cos xsin hcolor{blue}{-sin x}}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{color{blue}{sin x(cos h-1)}+cos xsin h}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{sin x(cos h-1)}{h}+lim_{h to 0}frac{cos xsin h}{h}$$
$$= sin xcdotlim_{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h}+cos xcdotlim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}$$
Using $lim_limits{h to 0} frac{sin h}{h} = 1$ and $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h} = 0$, you get
$$= sin xcdot 0 + cos xcdot 1 = cos x$$
Notice how the individual limits exist. Therefore, the procedure is correct. Can you use the same way to solve for the second limit?
Note that $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos x}{h}=0$ for $cos x =0$ then it is not always true that it doesn't exist.
– gimusi
Nov 24 at 18:11
Sorry for the nitpicking but it is not correct state that the limits doesn't exist at all the doesn't exist when $sin xneq 0$ and $cos x neq 0$. I know that it is a detail but I think it should be stated properly.
– gimusi
Nov 25 at 20:54
add a comment |
You broke up the limits incorrectly. That can be done only when the individual limits exist. $color{red}{lim_limits{h to 0} frac{sin x}{h}}$ and $color{red}{lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos x}{h}}$ do NOT exist.
Here is how you can solve the first limit properly.
$$lim_{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin x}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{color{blue}{sin xcos h}+cos xsin hcolor{blue}{-sin x}}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{color{blue}{sin x(cos h-1)}+cos xsin h}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{sin x(cos h-1)}{h}+lim_{h to 0}frac{cos xsin h}{h}$$
$$= sin xcdotlim_{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h}+cos xcdotlim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}$$
Using $lim_limits{h to 0} frac{sin h}{h} = 1$ and $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h} = 0$, you get
$$= sin xcdot 0 + cos xcdot 1 = cos x$$
Notice how the individual limits exist. Therefore, the procedure is correct. Can you use the same way to solve for the second limit?
You broke up the limits incorrectly. That can be done only when the individual limits exist. $color{red}{lim_limits{h to 0} frac{sin x}{h}}$ and $color{red}{lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos x}{h}}$ do NOT exist.
Here is how you can solve the first limit properly.
$$lim_{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin x}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{color{blue}{sin xcos h}+cos xsin hcolor{blue}{-sin x}}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{color{blue}{sin x(cos h-1)}+cos xsin h}{h}$$
$$= lim_{h to 0}frac{sin x(cos h-1)}{h}+lim_{h to 0}frac{cos xsin h}{h}$$
$$= sin xcdotlim_{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h}+cos xcdotlim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}$$
Using $lim_limits{h to 0} frac{sin h}{h} = 1$ and $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h} = 0$, you get
$$= sin xcdot 0 + cos xcdot 1 = cos x$$
Notice how the individual limits exist. Therefore, the procedure is correct. Can you use the same way to solve for the second limit?
edited Nov 24 at 18:12
answered Nov 24 at 18:09
KM101
4,758421
4,758421
Note that $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos x}{h}=0$ for $cos x =0$ then it is not always true that it doesn't exist.
– gimusi
Nov 24 at 18:11
Sorry for the nitpicking but it is not correct state that the limits doesn't exist at all the doesn't exist when $sin xneq 0$ and $cos x neq 0$. I know that it is a detail but I think it should be stated properly.
– gimusi
Nov 25 at 20:54
add a comment |
Note that $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos x}{h}=0$ for $cos x =0$ then it is not always true that it doesn't exist.
– gimusi
Nov 24 at 18:11
Sorry for the nitpicking but it is not correct state that the limits doesn't exist at all the doesn't exist when $sin xneq 0$ and $cos x neq 0$. I know that it is a detail but I think it should be stated properly.
– gimusi
Nov 25 at 20:54
Note that $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos x}{h}=0$ for $cos x =0$ then it is not always true that it doesn't exist.
– gimusi
Nov 24 at 18:11
Note that $lim_limits{h to 0}frac{cos x}{h}=0$ for $cos x =0$ then it is not always true that it doesn't exist.
– gimusi
Nov 24 at 18:11
Sorry for the nitpicking but it is not correct state that the limits doesn't exist at all the doesn't exist when $sin xneq 0$ and $cos x neq 0$. I know that it is a detail but I think it should be stated properly.
– gimusi
Nov 25 at 20:54
Sorry for the nitpicking but it is not correct state that the limits doesn't exist at all the doesn't exist when $sin xneq 0$ and $cos x neq 0$. I know that it is a detail but I think it should be stated properly.
– gimusi
Nov 25 at 20:54
add a comment |
That's the standard way to find the derivatives for $sin x$ and $cos x$ by the definition.
Your way was not correct since as $hto 0$ we have $sin x/h not to 0$, to proceed properly for the first one we have
$$sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}=sin xcos h+sin hcos x-sin x$$
and then
$$lim_{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}}{h}=lim_{h to 0}frac{sin xcos h+sin hcos x-sin x}{h}$$
$$=sin x cdotlim_{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h}+cos xlim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}$$
and from here to conclude we need to use standard limits
- $lim_{h to 0}frac{1-cos h}{h^2}=frac12 implies lim_{h to 0}frac{1-cos h}{h}=0$
- $lim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}=1$
For the other one we can proceed in a similar way.
add a comment |
That's the standard way to find the derivatives for $sin x$ and $cos x$ by the definition.
Your way was not correct since as $hto 0$ we have $sin x/h not to 0$, to proceed properly for the first one we have
$$sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}=sin xcos h+sin hcos x-sin x$$
and then
$$lim_{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}}{h}=lim_{h to 0}frac{sin xcos h+sin hcos x-sin x}{h}$$
$$=sin x cdotlim_{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h}+cos xlim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}$$
and from here to conclude we need to use standard limits
- $lim_{h to 0}frac{1-cos h}{h^2}=frac12 implies lim_{h to 0}frac{1-cos h}{h}=0$
- $lim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}=1$
For the other one we can proceed in a similar way.
add a comment |
That's the standard way to find the derivatives for $sin x$ and $cos x$ by the definition.
Your way was not correct since as $hto 0$ we have $sin x/h not to 0$, to proceed properly for the first one we have
$$sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}=sin xcos h+sin hcos x-sin x$$
and then
$$lim_{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}}{h}=lim_{h to 0}frac{sin xcos h+sin hcos x-sin x}{h}$$
$$=sin x cdotlim_{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h}+cos xlim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}$$
and from here to conclude we need to use standard limits
- $lim_{h to 0}frac{1-cos h}{h^2}=frac12 implies lim_{h to 0}frac{1-cos h}{h}=0$
- $lim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}=1$
For the other one we can proceed in a similar way.
That's the standard way to find the derivatives for $sin x$ and $cos x$ by the definition.
Your way was not correct since as $hto 0$ we have $sin x/h not to 0$, to proceed properly for the first one we have
$$sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}=sin xcos h+sin hcos x-sin x$$
and then
$$lim_{h to 0}frac{sin(x+h)-sin{(x)}}{h}=lim_{h to 0}frac{sin xcos h+sin hcos x-sin x}{h}$$
$$=sin x cdotlim_{h to 0}frac{cos h-1}{h}+cos xlim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}$$
and from here to conclude we need to use standard limits
- $lim_{h to 0}frac{1-cos h}{h^2}=frac12 implies lim_{h to 0}frac{1-cos h}{h}=0$
- $lim_{h to 0}frac{sin h}{h}=1$
For the other one we can proceed in a similar way.
answered Nov 24 at 17:44
gimusi
1
1
add a comment |
add a comment |
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1
Your answers are correct. (Those are the derivatives of $sin x$ and $cos x$.) Can you show your work?
– KM101
Nov 24 at 17:42
Show us your entire work. I cannot follow verbal descriptions.
– Sean Roberson
Nov 24 at 17:43
You can cancel out $frac{sin(h)}{h}$ when $h$ tends to $0$, but not $frac{cos(h)}{h}$ as this limit tends to infinity
– Sauhard Sharma
Nov 24 at 17:43
1
And by the way, you can only "cancel" when both limits exist. Note that $lim_{h to 0} 1/h$ does not exist.
– Sean Roberson
Nov 24 at 17:44
Use math.stackexchange.com/questions/75130/…. mathworld.wolfram.com/ProsthaphaeresisFormulas.html
– lab bhattacharjee
Nov 24 at 17:52