If I and J are two ideals, I∪J is an ideal if and only if I⊂J or J⊂I. How can we prove the subset part?












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If $I$ and $J$ are two ideals, $I cup J$ is an ideal if and only if $I subset J$ or $J subset I$. How can we prove the subset part?



What would the proof look like to prove that either $I$ is a subset of $J$ or vice versa?










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    2












    $begingroup$


    If $I$ and $J$ are two ideals, $I cup J$ is an ideal if and only if $I subset J$ or $J subset I$. How can we prove the subset part?



    What would the proof look like to prove that either $I$ is a subset of $J$ or vice versa?










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      2












      2








      2


      1



      $begingroup$


      If $I$ and $J$ are two ideals, $I cup J$ is an ideal if and only if $I subset J$ or $J subset I$. How can we prove the subset part?



      What would the proof look like to prove that either $I$ is a subset of $J$ or vice versa?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      If $I$ and $J$ are two ideals, $I cup J$ is an ideal if and only if $I subset J$ or $J subset I$. How can we prove the subset part?



      What would the proof look like to prove that either $I$ is a subset of $J$ or vice versa?







      abstract-algebra ring-theory ideals






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      edited Dec 24 '18 at 4:21









      twnly

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      asked Dec 24 '18 at 3:36









      user628956user628956

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          $begingroup$

          By the contrapositive, suppose that $I$ and $J$ are both ideals such that neither $J subset I$ nor $I subset J$. Thus, there exist elements $i in I setminus J$ and $j in J setminus I$. Now, this implies that $i+j$ is not in any of the ideals: if it were $i+j in I$, then we would have that $j = (-1)i + (i +j) in I$, and likewise for $J$. Hence $i,j in I cup J$ but $i+j not in I cup J$, which proves that $I cup J$ is not an ideal.



          A direct approach: suppose that the union is an ideal and that $I not subset J$, so that we can choose $i in I setminus J$. Now, for each $j in J$, we know that $i+j in I cup J$ so either $i+j in I$ or $i+j in J$. It can't be that $i+j in J$ because it would imply $i in J$. Hence $i+j in I$ and thus $j = (-1)i + (i+j) in I$, which proves that $J subset I$.






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            $begingroup$

            Suppose otherwise, i.e. $Icup J$ is an ideal and $I notsubset J$ and $J notsubset I$. Let $a in I setminus J$ and $bin Jsetminus I$. Consider $c = a + b$. Then $c in I cup J$. If $c in I$, then $b = c - a in I$ a contradiction. On the other hand, if $c in J$, then $a = c - b in J$ a contradiction.






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              $begingroup$

              If



              $I subset J tag 1$



              then



              $J subset I cup J subset J, tag 2$



              whence



              $I cup J = J, tag 3$



              so $I cup J$ is the ideal $J$; likewise, if



              $J subset I, tag 4$



              then



              $I subset I cup J subset I, tag 5$



              and $I cup J = I$, and $I cup J$ is the ideal $I$; so $I cup J$ is an ideal provided one of (1), (4) holds.



              Now suppose $I cup J$ is an ideal but that



              $I not subset J, ; J not subset I; tag 6$



              then



              $exists i in I, ; i notin J; ; exists j in J, ; j notin I; tag 7$



              we note that



              $i, j in I cup J, tag 8$



              whence, since $I cup J$ is an ideal,



              $i + j subset I cup J, tag 9$



              which yields



              $i + j in I, tag{10}$



              or



              $i + j in J; tag{11}$



              in the former case,



              $j = (i + j) - i in I, tag{12}$



              whilst in the latter,



              $i = (i + j) - j in J; tag{13}$



              but either of these conclusions contradicts (7), whence we find that $I cup J$ cannot be an ideal in $R$ unless at least one of



              $I subset J, ; J subset I tag{14}$



              holds.






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                3 Answers
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                active

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                3 Answers
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                active

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                2












                $begingroup$

                By the contrapositive, suppose that $I$ and $J$ are both ideals such that neither $J subset I$ nor $I subset J$. Thus, there exist elements $i in I setminus J$ and $j in J setminus I$. Now, this implies that $i+j$ is not in any of the ideals: if it were $i+j in I$, then we would have that $j = (-1)i + (i +j) in I$, and likewise for $J$. Hence $i,j in I cup J$ but $i+j not in I cup J$, which proves that $I cup J$ is not an ideal.



                A direct approach: suppose that the union is an ideal and that $I not subset J$, so that we can choose $i in I setminus J$. Now, for each $j in J$, we know that $i+j in I cup J$ so either $i+j in I$ or $i+j in J$. It can't be that $i+j in J$ because it would imply $i in J$. Hence $i+j in I$ and thus $j = (-1)i + (i+j) in I$, which proves that $J subset I$.






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                  2












                  $begingroup$

                  By the contrapositive, suppose that $I$ and $J$ are both ideals such that neither $J subset I$ nor $I subset J$. Thus, there exist elements $i in I setminus J$ and $j in J setminus I$. Now, this implies that $i+j$ is not in any of the ideals: if it were $i+j in I$, then we would have that $j = (-1)i + (i +j) in I$, and likewise for $J$. Hence $i,j in I cup J$ but $i+j not in I cup J$, which proves that $I cup J$ is not an ideal.



                  A direct approach: suppose that the union is an ideal and that $I not subset J$, so that we can choose $i in I setminus J$. Now, for each $j in J$, we know that $i+j in I cup J$ so either $i+j in I$ or $i+j in J$. It can't be that $i+j in J$ because it would imply $i in J$. Hence $i+j in I$ and thus $j = (-1)i + (i+j) in I$, which proves that $J subset I$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$
















                    2












                    2








                    2





                    $begingroup$

                    By the contrapositive, suppose that $I$ and $J$ are both ideals such that neither $J subset I$ nor $I subset J$. Thus, there exist elements $i in I setminus J$ and $j in J setminus I$. Now, this implies that $i+j$ is not in any of the ideals: if it were $i+j in I$, then we would have that $j = (-1)i + (i +j) in I$, and likewise for $J$. Hence $i,j in I cup J$ but $i+j not in I cup J$, which proves that $I cup J$ is not an ideal.



                    A direct approach: suppose that the union is an ideal and that $I not subset J$, so that we can choose $i in I setminus J$. Now, for each $j in J$, we know that $i+j in I cup J$ so either $i+j in I$ or $i+j in J$. It can't be that $i+j in J$ because it would imply $i in J$. Hence $i+j in I$ and thus $j = (-1)i + (i+j) in I$, which proves that $J subset I$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    By the contrapositive, suppose that $I$ and $J$ are both ideals such that neither $J subset I$ nor $I subset J$. Thus, there exist elements $i in I setminus J$ and $j in J setminus I$. Now, this implies that $i+j$ is not in any of the ideals: if it were $i+j in I$, then we would have that $j = (-1)i + (i +j) in I$, and likewise for $J$. Hence $i,j in I cup J$ but $i+j not in I cup J$, which proves that $I cup J$ is not an ideal.



                    A direct approach: suppose that the union is an ideal and that $I not subset J$, so that we can choose $i in I setminus J$. Now, for each $j in J$, we know that $i+j in I cup J$ so either $i+j in I$ or $i+j in J$. It can't be that $i+j in J$ because it would imply $i in J$. Hence $i+j in I$ and thus $j = (-1)i + (i+j) in I$, which proves that $J subset I$.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












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                    answered Dec 24 '18 at 4:06









                    Guido A.Guido A.

                    8,3351730




                    8,3351730























                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        Suppose otherwise, i.e. $Icup J$ is an ideal and $I notsubset J$ and $J notsubset I$. Let $a in I setminus J$ and $bin Jsetminus I$. Consider $c = a + b$. Then $c in I cup J$. If $c in I$, then $b = c - a in I$ a contradiction. On the other hand, if $c in J$, then $a = c - b in J$ a contradiction.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$


















                          0












                          $begingroup$

                          Suppose otherwise, i.e. $Icup J$ is an ideal and $I notsubset J$ and $J notsubset I$. Let $a in I setminus J$ and $bin Jsetminus I$. Consider $c = a + b$. Then $c in I cup J$. If $c in I$, then $b = c - a in I$ a contradiction. On the other hand, if $c in J$, then $a = c - b in J$ a contradiction.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$
















                            0












                            0








                            0





                            $begingroup$

                            Suppose otherwise, i.e. $Icup J$ is an ideal and $I notsubset J$ and $J notsubset I$. Let $a in I setminus J$ and $bin Jsetminus I$. Consider $c = a + b$. Then $c in I cup J$. If $c in I$, then $b = c - a in I$ a contradiction. On the other hand, if $c in J$, then $a = c - b in J$ a contradiction.






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$



                            Suppose otherwise, i.e. $Icup J$ is an ideal and $I notsubset J$ and $J notsubset I$. Let $a in I setminus J$ and $bin Jsetminus I$. Consider $c = a + b$. Then $c in I cup J$. If $c in I$, then $b = c - a in I$ a contradiction. On the other hand, if $c in J$, then $a = c - b in J$ a contradiction.







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered Dec 24 '18 at 4:05









                            Juan Diego RojasJuan Diego Rojas

                            324113




                            324113























                                0












                                $begingroup$

                                If



                                $I subset J tag 1$



                                then



                                $J subset I cup J subset J, tag 2$



                                whence



                                $I cup J = J, tag 3$



                                so $I cup J$ is the ideal $J$; likewise, if



                                $J subset I, tag 4$



                                then



                                $I subset I cup J subset I, tag 5$



                                and $I cup J = I$, and $I cup J$ is the ideal $I$; so $I cup J$ is an ideal provided one of (1), (4) holds.



                                Now suppose $I cup J$ is an ideal but that



                                $I not subset J, ; J not subset I; tag 6$



                                then



                                $exists i in I, ; i notin J; ; exists j in J, ; j notin I; tag 7$



                                we note that



                                $i, j in I cup J, tag 8$



                                whence, since $I cup J$ is an ideal,



                                $i + j subset I cup J, tag 9$



                                which yields



                                $i + j in I, tag{10}$



                                or



                                $i + j in J; tag{11}$



                                in the former case,



                                $j = (i + j) - i in I, tag{12}$



                                whilst in the latter,



                                $i = (i + j) - j in J; tag{13}$



                                but either of these conclusions contradicts (7), whence we find that $I cup J$ cannot be an ideal in $R$ unless at least one of



                                $I subset J, ; J subset I tag{14}$



                                holds.






                                share|cite|improve this answer











                                $endgroup$


















                                  0












                                  $begingroup$

                                  If



                                  $I subset J tag 1$



                                  then



                                  $J subset I cup J subset J, tag 2$



                                  whence



                                  $I cup J = J, tag 3$



                                  so $I cup J$ is the ideal $J$; likewise, if



                                  $J subset I, tag 4$



                                  then



                                  $I subset I cup J subset I, tag 5$



                                  and $I cup J = I$, and $I cup J$ is the ideal $I$; so $I cup J$ is an ideal provided one of (1), (4) holds.



                                  Now suppose $I cup J$ is an ideal but that



                                  $I not subset J, ; J not subset I; tag 6$



                                  then



                                  $exists i in I, ; i notin J; ; exists j in J, ; j notin I; tag 7$



                                  we note that



                                  $i, j in I cup J, tag 8$



                                  whence, since $I cup J$ is an ideal,



                                  $i + j subset I cup J, tag 9$



                                  which yields



                                  $i + j in I, tag{10}$



                                  or



                                  $i + j in J; tag{11}$



                                  in the former case,



                                  $j = (i + j) - i in I, tag{12}$



                                  whilst in the latter,



                                  $i = (i + j) - j in J; tag{13}$



                                  but either of these conclusions contradicts (7), whence we find that $I cup J$ cannot be an ideal in $R$ unless at least one of



                                  $I subset J, ; J subset I tag{14}$



                                  holds.






                                  share|cite|improve this answer











                                  $endgroup$
















                                    0












                                    0








                                    0





                                    $begingroup$

                                    If



                                    $I subset J tag 1$



                                    then



                                    $J subset I cup J subset J, tag 2$



                                    whence



                                    $I cup J = J, tag 3$



                                    so $I cup J$ is the ideal $J$; likewise, if



                                    $J subset I, tag 4$



                                    then



                                    $I subset I cup J subset I, tag 5$



                                    and $I cup J = I$, and $I cup J$ is the ideal $I$; so $I cup J$ is an ideal provided one of (1), (4) holds.



                                    Now suppose $I cup J$ is an ideal but that



                                    $I not subset J, ; J not subset I; tag 6$



                                    then



                                    $exists i in I, ; i notin J; ; exists j in J, ; j notin I; tag 7$



                                    we note that



                                    $i, j in I cup J, tag 8$



                                    whence, since $I cup J$ is an ideal,



                                    $i + j subset I cup J, tag 9$



                                    which yields



                                    $i + j in I, tag{10}$



                                    or



                                    $i + j in J; tag{11}$



                                    in the former case,



                                    $j = (i + j) - i in I, tag{12}$



                                    whilst in the latter,



                                    $i = (i + j) - j in J; tag{13}$



                                    but either of these conclusions contradicts (7), whence we find that $I cup J$ cannot be an ideal in $R$ unless at least one of



                                    $I subset J, ; J subset I tag{14}$



                                    holds.






                                    share|cite|improve this answer











                                    $endgroup$



                                    If



                                    $I subset J tag 1$



                                    then



                                    $J subset I cup J subset J, tag 2$



                                    whence



                                    $I cup J = J, tag 3$



                                    so $I cup J$ is the ideal $J$; likewise, if



                                    $J subset I, tag 4$



                                    then



                                    $I subset I cup J subset I, tag 5$



                                    and $I cup J = I$, and $I cup J$ is the ideal $I$; so $I cup J$ is an ideal provided one of (1), (4) holds.



                                    Now suppose $I cup J$ is an ideal but that



                                    $I not subset J, ; J not subset I; tag 6$



                                    then



                                    $exists i in I, ; i notin J; ; exists j in J, ; j notin I; tag 7$



                                    we note that



                                    $i, j in I cup J, tag 8$



                                    whence, since $I cup J$ is an ideal,



                                    $i + j subset I cup J, tag 9$



                                    which yields



                                    $i + j in I, tag{10}$



                                    or



                                    $i + j in J; tag{11}$



                                    in the former case,



                                    $j = (i + j) - i in I, tag{12}$



                                    whilst in the latter,



                                    $i = (i + j) - j in J; tag{13}$



                                    but either of these conclusions contradicts (7), whence we find that $I cup J$ cannot be an ideal in $R$ unless at least one of



                                    $I subset J, ; J subset I tag{14}$



                                    holds.







                                    share|cite|improve this answer














                                    share|cite|improve this answer



                                    share|cite|improve this answer








                                    edited Dec 24 '18 at 4:38

























                                    answered Dec 24 '18 at 4:11









                                    Robert LewisRobert Lewis

                                    49.1k23168




                                    49.1k23168






























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