If I and J are two ideals, I∪J is an ideal if and only if I⊂J or J⊂I. How can we prove the subset part?
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If $I$ and $J$ are two ideals, $I cup J$ is an ideal if and only if $I subset J$ or $J subset I$. How can we prove the subset part?
What would the proof look like to prove that either $I$ is a subset of $J$ or vice versa?
abstract-algebra ring-theory ideals
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $I$ and $J$ are two ideals, $I cup J$ is an ideal if and only if $I subset J$ or $J subset I$. How can we prove the subset part?
What would the proof look like to prove that either $I$ is a subset of $J$ or vice versa?
abstract-algebra ring-theory ideals
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $I$ and $J$ are two ideals, $I cup J$ is an ideal if and only if $I subset J$ or $J subset I$. How can we prove the subset part?
What would the proof look like to prove that either $I$ is a subset of $J$ or vice versa?
abstract-algebra ring-theory ideals
$endgroup$
If $I$ and $J$ are two ideals, $I cup J$ is an ideal if and only if $I subset J$ or $J subset I$. How can we prove the subset part?
What would the proof look like to prove that either $I$ is a subset of $J$ or vice versa?
abstract-algebra ring-theory ideals
abstract-algebra ring-theory ideals
edited Dec 24 '18 at 4:21
twnly
1,2341214
1,2341214
asked Dec 24 '18 at 3:36
user628956user628956
203
203
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3 Answers
3
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oldest
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$begingroup$
By the contrapositive, suppose that $I$ and $J$ are both ideals such that neither $J subset I$ nor $I subset J$. Thus, there exist elements $i in I setminus J$ and $j in J setminus I$. Now, this implies that $i+j$ is not in any of the ideals: if it were $i+j in I$, then we would have that $j = (-1)i + (i +j) in I$, and likewise for $J$. Hence $i,j in I cup J$ but $i+j not in I cup J$, which proves that $I cup J$ is not an ideal.
A direct approach: suppose that the union is an ideal and that $I not subset J$, so that we can choose $i in I setminus J$. Now, for each $j in J$, we know that $i+j in I cup J$ so either $i+j in I$ or $i+j in J$. It can't be that $i+j in J$ because it would imply $i in J$. Hence $i+j in I$ and thus $j = (-1)i + (i+j) in I$, which proves that $J subset I$.
$endgroup$
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$begingroup$
Suppose otherwise, i.e. $Icup J$ is an ideal and $I notsubset J$ and $J notsubset I$. Let $a in I setminus J$ and $bin Jsetminus I$. Consider $c = a + b$. Then $c in I cup J$. If $c in I$, then $b = c - a in I$ a contradiction. On the other hand, if $c in J$, then $a = c - b in J$ a contradiction.
$endgroup$
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$begingroup$
If
$I subset J tag 1$
then
$J subset I cup J subset J, tag 2$
whence
$I cup J = J, tag 3$
so $I cup J$ is the ideal $J$; likewise, if
$J subset I, tag 4$
then
$I subset I cup J subset I, tag 5$
and $I cup J = I$, and $I cup J$ is the ideal $I$; so $I cup J$ is an ideal provided one of (1), (4) holds.
Now suppose $I cup J$ is an ideal but that
$I not subset J, ; J not subset I; tag 6$
then
$exists i in I, ; i notin J; ; exists j in J, ; j notin I; tag 7$
we note that
$i, j in I cup J, tag 8$
whence, since $I cup J$ is an ideal,
$i + j subset I cup J, tag 9$
which yields
$i + j in I, tag{10}$
or
$i + j in J; tag{11}$
in the former case,
$j = (i + j) - i in I, tag{12}$
whilst in the latter,
$i = (i + j) - j in J; tag{13}$
but either of these conclusions contradicts (7), whence we find that $I cup J$ cannot be an ideal in $R$ unless at least one of
$I subset J, ; J subset I tag{14}$
holds.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
By the contrapositive, suppose that $I$ and $J$ are both ideals such that neither $J subset I$ nor $I subset J$. Thus, there exist elements $i in I setminus J$ and $j in J setminus I$. Now, this implies that $i+j$ is not in any of the ideals: if it were $i+j in I$, then we would have that $j = (-1)i + (i +j) in I$, and likewise for $J$. Hence $i,j in I cup J$ but $i+j not in I cup J$, which proves that $I cup J$ is not an ideal.
A direct approach: suppose that the union is an ideal and that $I not subset J$, so that we can choose $i in I setminus J$. Now, for each $j in J$, we know that $i+j in I cup J$ so either $i+j in I$ or $i+j in J$. It can't be that $i+j in J$ because it would imply $i in J$. Hence $i+j in I$ and thus $j = (-1)i + (i+j) in I$, which proves that $J subset I$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
By the contrapositive, suppose that $I$ and $J$ are both ideals such that neither $J subset I$ nor $I subset J$. Thus, there exist elements $i in I setminus J$ and $j in J setminus I$. Now, this implies that $i+j$ is not in any of the ideals: if it were $i+j in I$, then we would have that $j = (-1)i + (i +j) in I$, and likewise for $J$. Hence $i,j in I cup J$ but $i+j not in I cup J$, which proves that $I cup J$ is not an ideal.
A direct approach: suppose that the union is an ideal and that $I not subset J$, so that we can choose $i in I setminus J$. Now, for each $j in J$, we know that $i+j in I cup J$ so either $i+j in I$ or $i+j in J$. It can't be that $i+j in J$ because it would imply $i in J$. Hence $i+j in I$ and thus $j = (-1)i + (i+j) in I$, which proves that $J subset I$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
By the contrapositive, suppose that $I$ and $J$ are both ideals such that neither $J subset I$ nor $I subset J$. Thus, there exist elements $i in I setminus J$ and $j in J setminus I$. Now, this implies that $i+j$ is not in any of the ideals: if it were $i+j in I$, then we would have that $j = (-1)i + (i +j) in I$, and likewise for $J$. Hence $i,j in I cup J$ but $i+j not in I cup J$, which proves that $I cup J$ is not an ideal.
A direct approach: suppose that the union is an ideal and that $I not subset J$, so that we can choose $i in I setminus J$. Now, for each $j in J$, we know that $i+j in I cup J$ so either $i+j in I$ or $i+j in J$. It can't be that $i+j in J$ because it would imply $i in J$. Hence $i+j in I$ and thus $j = (-1)i + (i+j) in I$, which proves that $J subset I$.
$endgroup$
By the contrapositive, suppose that $I$ and $J$ are both ideals such that neither $J subset I$ nor $I subset J$. Thus, there exist elements $i in I setminus J$ and $j in J setminus I$. Now, this implies that $i+j$ is not in any of the ideals: if it were $i+j in I$, then we would have that $j = (-1)i + (i +j) in I$, and likewise for $J$. Hence $i,j in I cup J$ but $i+j not in I cup J$, which proves that $I cup J$ is not an ideal.
A direct approach: suppose that the union is an ideal and that $I not subset J$, so that we can choose $i in I setminus J$. Now, for each $j in J$, we know that $i+j in I cup J$ so either $i+j in I$ or $i+j in J$. It can't be that $i+j in J$ because it would imply $i in J$. Hence $i+j in I$ and thus $j = (-1)i + (i+j) in I$, which proves that $J subset I$.
answered Dec 24 '18 at 4:06
Guido A.Guido A.
8,3351730
8,3351730
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$begingroup$
Suppose otherwise, i.e. $Icup J$ is an ideal and $I notsubset J$ and $J notsubset I$. Let $a in I setminus J$ and $bin Jsetminus I$. Consider $c = a + b$. Then $c in I cup J$. If $c in I$, then $b = c - a in I$ a contradiction. On the other hand, if $c in J$, then $a = c - b in J$ a contradiction.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose otherwise, i.e. $Icup J$ is an ideal and $I notsubset J$ and $J notsubset I$. Let $a in I setminus J$ and $bin Jsetminus I$. Consider $c = a + b$. Then $c in I cup J$. If $c in I$, then $b = c - a in I$ a contradiction. On the other hand, if $c in J$, then $a = c - b in J$ a contradiction.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose otherwise, i.e. $Icup J$ is an ideal and $I notsubset J$ and $J notsubset I$. Let $a in I setminus J$ and $bin Jsetminus I$. Consider $c = a + b$. Then $c in I cup J$. If $c in I$, then $b = c - a in I$ a contradiction. On the other hand, if $c in J$, then $a = c - b in J$ a contradiction.
$endgroup$
Suppose otherwise, i.e. $Icup J$ is an ideal and $I notsubset J$ and $J notsubset I$. Let $a in I setminus J$ and $bin Jsetminus I$. Consider $c = a + b$. Then $c in I cup J$. If $c in I$, then $b = c - a in I$ a contradiction. On the other hand, if $c in J$, then $a = c - b in J$ a contradiction.
answered Dec 24 '18 at 4:05
Juan Diego RojasJuan Diego Rojas
324113
324113
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$begingroup$
If
$I subset J tag 1$
then
$J subset I cup J subset J, tag 2$
whence
$I cup J = J, tag 3$
so $I cup J$ is the ideal $J$; likewise, if
$J subset I, tag 4$
then
$I subset I cup J subset I, tag 5$
and $I cup J = I$, and $I cup J$ is the ideal $I$; so $I cup J$ is an ideal provided one of (1), (4) holds.
Now suppose $I cup J$ is an ideal but that
$I not subset J, ; J not subset I; tag 6$
then
$exists i in I, ; i notin J; ; exists j in J, ; j notin I; tag 7$
we note that
$i, j in I cup J, tag 8$
whence, since $I cup J$ is an ideal,
$i + j subset I cup J, tag 9$
which yields
$i + j in I, tag{10}$
or
$i + j in J; tag{11}$
in the former case,
$j = (i + j) - i in I, tag{12}$
whilst in the latter,
$i = (i + j) - j in J; tag{13}$
but either of these conclusions contradicts (7), whence we find that $I cup J$ cannot be an ideal in $R$ unless at least one of
$I subset J, ; J subset I tag{14}$
holds.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If
$I subset J tag 1$
then
$J subset I cup J subset J, tag 2$
whence
$I cup J = J, tag 3$
so $I cup J$ is the ideal $J$; likewise, if
$J subset I, tag 4$
then
$I subset I cup J subset I, tag 5$
and $I cup J = I$, and $I cup J$ is the ideal $I$; so $I cup J$ is an ideal provided one of (1), (4) holds.
Now suppose $I cup J$ is an ideal but that
$I not subset J, ; J not subset I; tag 6$
then
$exists i in I, ; i notin J; ; exists j in J, ; j notin I; tag 7$
we note that
$i, j in I cup J, tag 8$
whence, since $I cup J$ is an ideal,
$i + j subset I cup J, tag 9$
which yields
$i + j in I, tag{10}$
or
$i + j in J; tag{11}$
in the former case,
$j = (i + j) - i in I, tag{12}$
whilst in the latter,
$i = (i + j) - j in J; tag{13}$
but either of these conclusions contradicts (7), whence we find that $I cup J$ cannot be an ideal in $R$ unless at least one of
$I subset J, ; J subset I tag{14}$
holds.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If
$I subset J tag 1$
then
$J subset I cup J subset J, tag 2$
whence
$I cup J = J, tag 3$
so $I cup J$ is the ideal $J$; likewise, if
$J subset I, tag 4$
then
$I subset I cup J subset I, tag 5$
and $I cup J = I$, and $I cup J$ is the ideal $I$; so $I cup J$ is an ideal provided one of (1), (4) holds.
Now suppose $I cup J$ is an ideal but that
$I not subset J, ; J not subset I; tag 6$
then
$exists i in I, ; i notin J; ; exists j in J, ; j notin I; tag 7$
we note that
$i, j in I cup J, tag 8$
whence, since $I cup J$ is an ideal,
$i + j subset I cup J, tag 9$
which yields
$i + j in I, tag{10}$
or
$i + j in J; tag{11}$
in the former case,
$j = (i + j) - i in I, tag{12}$
whilst in the latter,
$i = (i + j) - j in J; tag{13}$
but either of these conclusions contradicts (7), whence we find that $I cup J$ cannot be an ideal in $R$ unless at least one of
$I subset J, ; J subset I tag{14}$
holds.
$endgroup$
If
$I subset J tag 1$
then
$J subset I cup J subset J, tag 2$
whence
$I cup J = J, tag 3$
so $I cup J$ is the ideal $J$; likewise, if
$J subset I, tag 4$
then
$I subset I cup J subset I, tag 5$
and $I cup J = I$, and $I cup J$ is the ideal $I$; so $I cup J$ is an ideal provided one of (1), (4) holds.
Now suppose $I cup J$ is an ideal but that
$I not subset J, ; J not subset I; tag 6$
then
$exists i in I, ; i notin J; ; exists j in J, ; j notin I; tag 7$
we note that
$i, j in I cup J, tag 8$
whence, since $I cup J$ is an ideal,
$i + j subset I cup J, tag 9$
which yields
$i + j in I, tag{10}$
or
$i + j in J; tag{11}$
in the former case,
$j = (i + j) - i in I, tag{12}$
whilst in the latter,
$i = (i + j) - j in J; tag{13}$
but either of these conclusions contradicts (7), whence we find that $I cup J$ cannot be an ideal in $R$ unless at least one of
$I subset J, ; J subset I tag{14}$
holds.
edited Dec 24 '18 at 4:38
answered Dec 24 '18 at 4:11
Robert LewisRobert Lewis
49.1k23168
49.1k23168
add a comment |
add a comment |
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