Is this homebrew variant of True Strike too strong to be a cantrip?











up vote
12
down vote

favorite
1













Lethal Strike

Enchantment cantrip



Components: V S

Casting Time: 1 Bonus Action

Duration: 1 turn



When you roll a 19 on a weapon attack, that attack is also a critical hit, then this spell ends.




This spell is brewed for my players' Arcane Trickster, who would like a combat cantrip that will enhance his sneak attack. He does not like true strike because it wastes one full turn before he can attack, thus I make this one requiring bonus action instead.



I'm worried that making it requiring bonus action instead of action will make this overpowered.



Is this homebrew spell overpowered as a cantrip? If yes, what is the suggested spell level for this? What can be modified so this can stay as a cantrip?










share|improve this question




















  • 3




    Is the duration "1 turn" to be read as "until the end of the current turn" or did you mean something else?
    – Sdjz
    Nov 16 at 15:25










  • Yes, until the end of current turn @Sdjz
    – Vylix
    Nov 16 at 15:32










  • To clarify - does the 19 auto hit for this spell, like a Natural 20 critical hit does? Or would a roll of 19 + modifiers still have to hit, and assuming it does, then deal double damage as normal for a critical hit?
    – Rheios
    Nov 16 at 21:31










  • @Rheios yes, it's basically Improved Critical Hit classfeat
    – Vylix
    Nov 16 at 23:57















up vote
12
down vote

favorite
1













Lethal Strike

Enchantment cantrip



Components: V S

Casting Time: 1 Bonus Action

Duration: 1 turn



When you roll a 19 on a weapon attack, that attack is also a critical hit, then this spell ends.




This spell is brewed for my players' Arcane Trickster, who would like a combat cantrip that will enhance his sneak attack. He does not like true strike because it wastes one full turn before he can attack, thus I make this one requiring bonus action instead.



I'm worried that making it requiring bonus action instead of action will make this overpowered.



Is this homebrew spell overpowered as a cantrip? If yes, what is the suggested spell level for this? What can be modified so this can stay as a cantrip?










share|improve this question




















  • 3




    Is the duration "1 turn" to be read as "until the end of the current turn" or did you mean something else?
    – Sdjz
    Nov 16 at 15:25










  • Yes, until the end of current turn @Sdjz
    – Vylix
    Nov 16 at 15:32










  • To clarify - does the 19 auto hit for this spell, like a Natural 20 critical hit does? Or would a roll of 19 + modifiers still have to hit, and assuming it does, then deal double damage as normal for a critical hit?
    – Rheios
    Nov 16 at 21:31










  • @Rheios yes, it's basically Improved Critical Hit classfeat
    – Vylix
    Nov 16 at 23:57













up vote
12
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
12
down vote

favorite
1






1






Lethal Strike

Enchantment cantrip



Components: V S

Casting Time: 1 Bonus Action

Duration: 1 turn



When you roll a 19 on a weapon attack, that attack is also a critical hit, then this spell ends.




This spell is brewed for my players' Arcane Trickster, who would like a combat cantrip that will enhance his sneak attack. He does not like true strike because it wastes one full turn before he can attack, thus I make this one requiring bonus action instead.



I'm worried that making it requiring bonus action instead of action will make this overpowered.



Is this homebrew spell overpowered as a cantrip? If yes, what is the suggested spell level for this? What can be modified so this can stay as a cantrip?










share|improve this question
















Lethal Strike

Enchantment cantrip



Components: V S

Casting Time: 1 Bonus Action

Duration: 1 turn



When you roll a 19 on a weapon attack, that attack is also a critical hit, then this spell ends.




This spell is brewed for my players' Arcane Trickster, who would like a combat cantrip that will enhance his sneak attack. He does not like true strike because it wastes one full turn before he can attack, thus I make this one requiring bonus action instead.



I'm worried that making it requiring bonus action instead of action will make this overpowered.



Is this homebrew spell overpowered as a cantrip? If yes, what is the suggested spell level for this? What can be modified so this can stay as a cantrip?







dnd-5e spells homebrew balance cantrips






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Nov 16 at 15:23









V2Blast

18.1k248114




18.1k248114










asked Nov 16 at 15:19









Vylix

8,267229106




8,267229106








  • 3




    Is the duration "1 turn" to be read as "until the end of the current turn" or did you mean something else?
    – Sdjz
    Nov 16 at 15:25










  • Yes, until the end of current turn @Sdjz
    – Vylix
    Nov 16 at 15:32










  • To clarify - does the 19 auto hit for this spell, like a Natural 20 critical hit does? Or would a roll of 19 + modifiers still have to hit, and assuming it does, then deal double damage as normal for a critical hit?
    – Rheios
    Nov 16 at 21:31










  • @Rheios yes, it's basically Improved Critical Hit classfeat
    – Vylix
    Nov 16 at 23:57














  • 3




    Is the duration "1 turn" to be read as "until the end of the current turn" or did you mean something else?
    – Sdjz
    Nov 16 at 15:25










  • Yes, until the end of current turn @Sdjz
    – Vylix
    Nov 16 at 15:32










  • To clarify - does the 19 auto hit for this spell, like a Natural 20 critical hit does? Or would a roll of 19 + modifiers still have to hit, and assuming it does, then deal double damage as normal for a critical hit?
    – Rheios
    Nov 16 at 21:31










  • @Rheios yes, it's basically Improved Critical Hit classfeat
    – Vylix
    Nov 16 at 23:57








3




3




Is the duration "1 turn" to be read as "until the end of the current turn" or did you mean something else?
– Sdjz
Nov 16 at 15:25




Is the duration "1 turn" to be read as "until the end of the current turn" or did you mean something else?
– Sdjz
Nov 16 at 15:25












Yes, until the end of current turn @Sdjz
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 15:32




Yes, until the end of current turn @Sdjz
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 15:32












To clarify - does the 19 auto hit for this spell, like a Natural 20 critical hit does? Or would a roll of 19 + modifiers still have to hit, and assuming it does, then deal double damage as normal for a critical hit?
– Rheios
Nov 16 at 21:31




To clarify - does the 19 auto hit for this spell, like a Natural 20 critical hit does? Or would a roll of 19 + modifiers still have to hit, and assuming it does, then deal double damage as normal for a critical hit?
– Rheios
Nov 16 at 21:31












@Rheios yes, it's basically Improved Critical Hit classfeat
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 23:57




@Rheios yes, it's basically Improved Critical Hit classfeat
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 23:57










6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
17
down vote



accepted










It's about on par with Green-Flame Blade, a spell published in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (at least for characters with only one attack).



Lethal Strike's expected bonus damage for a sneak attacking level 3 rogue is 0.575 damage (5% * 1d8+2d6 (11.5) = 0.575), considerably less than Green Flame Blade, which deals damage equal to the caster's ability score modifier (we'll say 1-3, since the rogue casting it most likely has a decent Int score), albeit to a second target in melee range.



I'd counter the argument that others have made about it being zero cost to cast this. Rogues have a huge number of uses for a bonus action, and this is competing with all of them. For example, if the character were instead dual wielding short swords, rather than using lethal strike with a rapier, as above, their damage instead increases by 1d6-1 or 2.5 * 1.05 = 2.625 (-1 from going from d8 to d6 on their main hand attack, with a 5% crit chance), assuming they hit with both attacks.



All that aside, your duration doesn't fit with other published spells. Every spell I'm aware of that buffs the next attack is written with the following duration:




Duration: Concentration, Up to 1 round




As long as the only character to ever get this spell is this rogue, I don't really see a huge problem with it. If a character with a less crowded bonus action economy learned it, however, it could be problematic.









share|improve this answer



















  • 3




    I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
    – Matt Rick
    Nov 16 at 16:07






  • 1




    Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
    – Theik
    Nov 16 at 22:17


















up vote
5
down vote













In isolation, it's fine...



Compared to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide weapon cantrips - Green-Flame Blade, Booming Blade, etc. - I don't find it to be terribly powerful. The can-stab-trips all deal guaranteed extra damage on a hit (scaling by tier) of an elemental type (which may trigger vulnerabilities or other effects, like fire vs. some regenerators). Your cantrip has a 1 in 20 chance (only when a 19 is rolled) of adding damage, and for most casters that damage does not scale.



... and for an Arcane Trickster, it's even better but still not overwhelming...



In the hands of an Arcane Trickster, the additional damage from a critical hit scales, but it's infrequent enough (again 1 in 20) to be equivalent or perhaps even worse than getting bonus damage on every hit. An additional downside for the rogue is the verbal component. Without the benefit of a Sorcerer's Subtle Spell, casting a spell is a loud process. If one uses this spell before attacking, one is no longer hidden. If the rogue has some other way to get Sneak Attack, so be it.



...but you have to be wary of unintended synergy.



A character with True Strike and Lethal Strike could cast True Strike on one turn, then Lethal Strike and attack on the next. Advantage and increased threat range without any real expenditure of resources is a bit much. And in the hands of a Rogue, the ability to build in advantage and an extended critical range is too much.






share|improve this answer



















  • 12




    You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
    – KRyan
    Nov 16 at 15:46








  • 1




    As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
    – HellSaint
    Nov 17 at 9:22










  • If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
    – András
    Nov 17 at 9:26




















up vote
2
down vote













This is too weak to be a cantrip



Just like with Green Flame Blade, you can't use Two Weapon Fighting. Unlike GFB, the DPR increase is small.



Assumptions:




  • Start with Dex 16

  • Increase at levels 4 and 8

  • 65% hit chance

  • GFB's secondary damage is calculated as half1


[DPR-Level] chart, with the 3 possibilities: Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) Green-Flame Blade (GFB) and Lethal Strike (LethalS):
DPR comparison



As clearly visible from this graph, Lethal Strike is strictly weaker than simply Two-Weapon Fighting.



It can be combined with GFB, but even than it is marginal, while the combination takes up at least half of a Trickster's cantrips.





1) Spreading the damage is less effective than concentrating it on one target, and there might not even be a legit secondary target in range.






share|improve this answer























  • Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
    – HellSaint
    Nov 17 at 9:18


















up vote
1
down vote













For a single-classed Arcane Trickster, it's fine.



The Bonus Action is pretty valuable for a Rogue of any type, and using their Bonus Action to cast this cantrip instead means they're not





  • Hideing to gain advantage (or to avoid damage)

  • Attacking with an off-hand weapon to improve the odds of landing their Sneak Attack

  • Moving their Mage Hand


Or any of a number of other things they might prefer to be doing on this turn.



Meanwhile, gaining an extra Crit on a 19 only adds about 4-10% damage to your hit, depending on your level and the AC of your target, as shown by this table I generated of DPR values:



begin{array}{|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|}
hline
Level & Normal AC0 & Normal AC14 & Normal AC20 & LS AC0 & LS AC14 & LS AC20 \ hline
1 & 10.85 & 7 & 3.7 & 11.25 & 7.4 & 4.1 \ hline
3 & 14.35 & 9.275 & 4.925 & 14.925 & 9.85 & 5.5 \ hline
5 & 18.8 & 14.05 & 8.35 & 19.55 & 14.8 & 9.1 \ hline
7 & 22.3 & 16.675 & 9.925 & 23.225 & 17.6 & 10.85 \ hline
9 & 26.75 & 22.7 & 14.6 & 27.85 & 23.8 & 15.7 \ hline
11 & 30.25 & 25.675 & 16.525 & 31.525 & 26.95 & 17.8 \ hline
13 & 33.75 & 30.35 & 20.15 & 35.2 & 31.8 & 21.6 \ hline
15 & 37.25 & 33.5 & 22.25 & 38.875 & 35.125 & 23.875 \ hline
17 & 40.75 & 38.7 & 26.4 & 42.55 & 40.5 & 28.2 \ hline
19 & 44.25 & 42.025 & 28.675 & 46.225 & 44 & 30.65 \ hline
end{array}



Rogue starts with 16 Dexterity, only takes Dexterity ASIs until they reach 20, fights with a non-magical Rapier as their Finesse weapon.



The Full Stats for this character can be found here: https://gist.github.com/Xirema/01a95b6a1994afaa39ecb610ff363d9f



What's important is that Lethal Strike does increase DPR, especially against high-AC characters, but it's still a pretty marginal gain. Hideing to gain advantage will usually result in a higher DPR gain than by using this Cantrip. So if they already have a source of Advantage, or otherwise just want those sweet sweet crits, this will help them do that without completely overpowering the character.






share|improve this answer






























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Too strong as cantrip; weak as leveled spell



    It's too strong as a cantrip. However, it's also too weak for a first level spell. The reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because there's really no reason not to use it.



    Rogues have more things to do with their bonus actions than most classes, but unless you really need to hide or dash, there's literally no reason not to use this cantrip to double your chances to crit, which is stepping on the fighter's toes a bit, because one of their archetypes has that as an ability.



    Once you make it a first level spell however, it becomes far too weak, because it's not really worth a spell slot to have a 5% higher chance of critting. The only reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because it doesn't cost you anything, and there's no real reason not to use it. Once it costs spell slots, it's not worth it.



    I don't think there is any real way to salvage the spell to make it cantrip worthy.



    On bonus action costs



    A lot of other answers are pointing out that the cost "isn't next to nothing" because you could be using an off-hand attack, but in all seriousness, what Arcane Trickster is ever going to be using an off-hand attack? You are far more likely to be using Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade as a cantrip, which means you can't use an off-hand attack.



    You can, however, use Lethal Strike and then Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade.



    If you are using the optional flanking rules it'd be fairly trivial to get advantage and double crit chance on a Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade attack.






    share|improve this answer























    • It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
      – András
      Nov 17 at 9:12


















    up vote
    0
    down vote













    Doubling your crit chance with a bonus action that doesn't waste other resources is unbalanced.



    A possible solution is to make this spell level 1. However, being level makes it too weak, IMO...



    I think you can tweak this a bit (make it have a duration, like a full Round, but cost a level), but being a cantrip seems too strong for me. If you follow the idea of having a 1 round duration, it means you benefit with this on attacks, reactions, Hasted actions, etc. Might be worthy then.






    share|improve this answer





















      Your Answer





      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
      return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
      StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
      StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
      });
      });
      }, "mathjax-editing");

      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "122"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });














       

      draft saved


      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f135698%2fis-this-homebrew-variant-of-true-strike-too-strong-to-be-a-cantrip%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      6 Answers
      6






      active

      oldest

      votes








      6 Answers
      6






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      17
      down vote



      accepted










      It's about on par with Green-Flame Blade, a spell published in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (at least for characters with only one attack).



      Lethal Strike's expected bonus damage for a sneak attacking level 3 rogue is 0.575 damage (5% * 1d8+2d6 (11.5) = 0.575), considerably less than Green Flame Blade, which deals damage equal to the caster's ability score modifier (we'll say 1-3, since the rogue casting it most likely has a decent Int score), albeit to a second target in melee range.



      I'd counter the argument that others have made about it being zero cost to cast this. Rogues have a huge number of uses for a bonus action, and this is competing with all of them. For example, if the character were instead dual wielding short swords, rather than using lethal strike with a rapier, as above, their damage instead increases by 1d6-1 or 2.5 * 1.05 = 2.625 (-1 from going from d8 to d6 on their main hand attack, with a 5% crit chance), assuming they hit with both attacks.



      All that aside, your duration doesn't fit with other published spells. Every spell I'm aware of that buffs the next attack is written with the following duration:




      Duration: Concentration, Up to 1 round




      As long as the only character to ever get this spell is this rogue, I don't really see a huge problem with it. If a character with a less crowded bonus action economy learned it, however, it could be problematic.









      share|improve this answer



















      • 3




        I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
        – Matt Rick
        Nov 16 at 16:07






      • 1




        Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
        – Theik
        Nov 16 at 22:17















      up vote
      17
      down vote



      accepted










      It's about on par with Green-Flame Blade, a spell published in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (at least for characters with only one attack).



      Lethal Strike's expected bonus damage for a sneak attacking level 3 rogue is 0.575 damage (5% * 1d8+2d6 (11.5) = 0.575), considerably less than Green Flame Blade, which deals damage equal to the caster's ability score modifier (we'll say 1-3, since the rogue casting it most likely has a decent Int score), albeit to a second target in melee range.



      I'd counter the argument that others have made about it being zero cost to cast this. Rogues have a huge number of uses for a bonus action, and this is competing with all of them. For example, if the character were instead dual wielding short swords, rather than using lethal strike with a rapier, as above, their damage instead increases by 1d6-1 or 2.5 * 1.05 = 2.625 (-1 from going from d8 to d6 on their main hand attack, with a 5% crit chance), assuming they hit with both attacks.



      All that aside, your duration doesn't fit with other published spells. Every spell I'm aware of that buffs the next attack is written with the following duration:




      Duration: Concentration, Up to 1 round




      As long as the only character to ever get this spell is this rogue, I don't really see a huge problem with it. If a character with a less crowded bonus action economy learned it, however, it could be problematic.









      share|improve this answer



















      • 3




        I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
        – Matt Rick
        Nov 16 at 16:07






      • 1




        Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
        – Theik
        Nov 16 at 22:17













      up vote
      17
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      17
      down vote



      accepted






      It's about on par with Green-Flame Blade, a spell published in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (at least for characters with only one attack).



      Lethal Strike's expected bonus damage for a sneak attacking level 3 rogue is 0.575 damage (5% * 1d8+2d6 (11.5) = 0.575), considerably less than Green Flame Blade, which deals damage equal to the caster's ability score modifier (we'll say 1-3, since the rogue casting it most likely has a decent Int score), albeit to a second target in melee range.



      I'd counter the argument that others have made about it being zero cost to cast this. Rogues have a huge number of uses for a bonus action, and this is competing with all of them. For example, if the character were instead dual wielding short swords, rather than using lethal strike with a rapier, as above, their damage instead increases by 1d6-1 or 2.5 * 1.05 = 2.625 (-1 from going from d8 to d6 on their main hand attack, with a 5% crit chance), assuming they hit with both attacks.



      All that aside, your duration doesn't fit with other published spells. Every spell I'm aware of that buffs the next attack is written with the following duration:




      Duration: Concentration, Up to 1 round




      As long as the only character to ever get this spell is this rogue, I don't really see a huge problem with it. If a character with a less crowded bonus action economy learned it, however, it could be problematic.









      share|improve this answer














      It's about on par with Green-Flame Blade, a spell published in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (at least for characters with only one attack).



      Lethal Strike's expected bonus damage for a sneak attacking level 3 rogue is 0.575 damage (5% * 1d8+2d6 (11.5) = 0.575), considerably less than Green Flame Blade, which deals damage equal to the caster's ability score modifier (we'll say 1-3, since the rogue casting it most likely has a decent Int score), albeit to a second target in melee range.



      I'd counter the argument that others have made about it being zero cost to cast this. Rogues have a huge number of uses for a bonus action, and this is competing with all of them. For example, if the character were instead dual wielding short swords, rather than using lethal strike with a rapier, as above, their damage instead increases by 1d6-1 or 2.5 * 1.05 = 2.625 (-1 from going from d8 to d6 on their main hand attack, with a 5% crit chance), assuming they hit with both attacks.



      All that aside, your duration doesn't fit with other published spells. Every spell I'm aware of that buffs the next attack is written with the following duration:




      Duration: Concentration, Up to 1 round




      As long as the only character to ever get this spell is this rogue, I don't really see a huge problem with it. If a character with a less crowded bonus action economy learned it, however, it could be problematic.










      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Nov 16 at 17:41









      V2Blast

      18.1k248114




      18.1k248114










      answered Nov 16 at 15:49









      Matt Rick

      952515




      952515








      • 3




        I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
        – Matt Rick
        Nov 16 at 16:07






      • 1




        Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
        – Theik
        Nov 16 at 22:17














      • 3




        I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
        – Matt Rick
        Nov 16 at 16:07






      • 1




        Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
        – Theik
        Nov 16 at 22:17








      3




      3




      I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
      – Matt Rick
      Nov 16 at 16:07




      I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
      – Matt Rick
      Nov 16 at 16:07




      1




      1




      Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
      – Theik
      Nov 16 at 22:17




      Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
      – Theik
      Nov 16 at 22:17












      up vote
      5
      down vote













      In isolation, it's fine...



      Compared to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide weapon cantrips - Green-Flame Blade, Booming Blade, etc. - I don't find it to be terribly powerful. The can-stab-trips all deal guaranteed extra damage on a hit (scaling by tier) of an elemental type (which may trigger vulnerabilities or other effects, like fire vs. some regenerators). Your cantrip has a 1 in 20 chance (only when a 19 is rolled) of adding damage, and for most casters that damage does not scale.



      ... and for an Arcane Trickster, it's even better but still not overwhelming...



      In the hands of an Arcane Trickster, the additional damage from a critical hit scales, but it's infrequent enough (again 1 in 20) to be equivalent or perhaps even worse than getting bonus damage on every hit. An additional downside for the rogue is the verbal component. Without the benefit of a Sorcerer's Subtle Spell, casting a spell is a loud process. If one uses this spell before attacking, one is no longer hidden. If the rogue has some other way to get Sneak Attack, so be it.



      ...but you have to be wary of unintended synergy.



      A character with True Strike and Lethal Strike could cast True Strike on one turn, then Lethal Strike and attack on the next. Advantage and increased threat range without any real expenditure of resources is a bit much. And in the hands of a Rogue, the ability to build in advantage and an extended critical range is too much.






      share|improve this answer



















      • 12




        You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
        – KRyan
        Nov 16 at 15:46








      • 1




        As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
        – HellSaint
        Nov 17 at 9:22










      • If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
        – András
        Nov 17 at 9:26

















      up vote
      5
      down vote













      In isolation, it's fine...



      Compared to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide weapon cantrips - Green-Flame Blade, Booming Blade, etc. - I don't find it to be terribly powerful. The can-stab-trips all deal guaranteed extra damage on a hit (scaling by tier) of an elemental type (which may trigger vulnerabilities or other effects, like fire vs. some regenerators). Your cantrip has a 1 in 20 chance (only when a 19 is rolled) of adding damage, and for most casters that damage does not scale.



      ... and for an Arcane Trickster, it's even better but still not overwhelming...



      In the hands of an Arcane Trickster, the additional damage from a critical hit scales, but it's infrequent enough (again 1 in 20) to be equivalent or perhaps even worse than getting bonus damage on every hit. An additional downside for the rogue is the verbal component. Without the benefit of a Sorcerer's Subtle Spell, casting a spell is a loud process. If one uses this spell before attacking, one is no longer hidden. If the rogue has some other way to get Sneak Attack, so be it.



      ...but you have to be wary of unintended synergy.



      A character with True Strike and Lethal Strike could cast True Strike on one turn, then Lethal Strike and attack on the next. Advantage and increased threat range without any real expenditure of resources is a bit much. And in the hands of a Rogue, the ability to build in advantage and an extended critical range is too much.






      share|improve this answer



















      • 12




        You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
        – KRyan
        Nov 16 at 15:46








      • 1




        As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
        – HellSaint
        Nov 17 at 9:22










      • If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
        – András
        Nov 17 at 9:26















      up vote
      5
      down vote










      up vote
      5
      down vote









      In isolation, it's fine...



      Compared to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide weapon cantrips - Green-Flame Blade, Booming Blade, etc. - I don't find it to be terribly powerful. The can-stab-trips all deal guaranteed extra damage on a hit (scaling by tier) of an elemental type (which may trigger vulnerabilities or other effects, like fire vs. some regenerators). Your cantrip has a 1 in 20 chance (only when a 19 is rolled) of adding damage, and for most casters that damage does not scale.



      ... and for an Arcane Trickster, it's even better but still not overwhelming...



      In the hands of an Arcane Trickster, the additional damage from a critical hit scales, but it's infrequent enough (again 1 in 20) to be equivalent or perhaps even worse than getting bonus damage on every hit. An additional downside for the rogue is the verbal component. Without the benefit of a Sorcerer's Subtle Spell, casting a spell is a loud process. If one uses this spell before attacking, one is no longer hidden. If the rogue has some other way to get Sneak Attack, so be it.



      ...but you have to be wary of unintended synergy.



      A character with True Strike and Lethal Strike could cast True Strike on one turn, then Lethal Strike and attack on the next. Advantage and increased threat range without any real expenditure of resources is a bit much. And in the hands of a Rogue, the ability to build in advantage and an extended critical range is too much.






      share|improve this answer














      In isolation, it's fine...



      Compared to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide weapon cantrips - Green-Flame Blade, Booming Blade, etc. - I don't find it to be terribly powerful. The can-stab-trips all deal guaranteed extra damage on a hit (scaling by tier) of an elemental type (which may trigger vulnerabilities or other effects, like fire vs. some regenerators). Your cantrip has a 1 in 20 chance (only when a 19 is rolled) of adding damage, and for most casters that damage does not scale.



      ... and for an Arcane Trickster, it's even better but still not overwhelming...



      In the hands of an Arcane Trickster, the additional damage from a critical hit scales, but it's infrequent enough (again 1 in 20) to be equivalent or perhaps even worse than getting bonus damage on every hit. An additional downside for the rogue is the verbal component. Without the benefit of a Sorcerer's Subtle Spell, casting a spell is a loud process. If one uses this spell before attacking, one is no longer hidden. If the rogue has some other way to get Sneak Attack, so be it.



      ...but you have to be wary of unintended synergy.



      A character with True Strike and Lethal Strike could cast True Strike on one turn, then Lethal Strike and attack on the next. Advantage and increased threat range without any real expenditure of resources is a bit much. And in the hands of a Rogue, the ability to build in advantage and an extended critical range is too much.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Nov 16 at 17:41









      V2Blast

      18.1k248114




      18.1k248114










      answered Nov 16 at 15:38









      T.J.L.

      27.2k385145




      27.2k385145








      • 12




        You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
        – KRyan
        Nov 16 at 15:46








      • 1




        As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
        – HellSaint
        Nov 17 at 9:22










      • If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
        – András
        Nov 17 at 9:26
















      • 12




        You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
        – KRyan
        Nov 16 at 15:46








      • 1




        As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
        – HellSaint
        Nov 17 at 9:22










      • If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
        – András
        Nov 17 at 9:26










      12




      12




      You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
      – KRyan
      Nov 16 at 15:46






      You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
      – KRyan
      Nov 16 at 15:46






      1




      1




      As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
      – HellSaint
      Nov 17 at 9:22




      As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
      – HellSaint
      Nov 17 at 9:22












      If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
      – András
      Nov 17 at 9:26






      If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
      – András
      Nov 17 at 9:26












      up vote
      2
      down vote













      This is too weak to be a cantrip



      Just like with Green Flame Blade, you can't use Two Weapon Fighting. Unlike GFB, the DPR increase is small.



      Assumptions:




      • Start with Dex 16

      • Increase at levels 4 and 8

      • 65% hit chance

      • GFB's secondary damage is calculated as half1


      [DPR-Level] chart, with the 3 possibilities: Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) Green-Flame Blade (GFB) and Lethal Strike (LethalS):
      DPR comparison



      As clearly visible from this graph, Lethal Strike is strictly weaker than simply Two-Weapon Fighting.



      It can be combined with GFB, but even than it is marginal, while the combination takes up at least half of a Trickster's cantrips.





      1) Spreading the damage is less effective than concentrating it on one target, and there might not even be a legit secondary target in range.






      share|improve this answer























      • Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
        – HellSaint
        Nov 17 at 9:18















      up vote
      2
      down vote













      This is too weak to be a cantrip



      Just like with Green Flame Blade, you can't use Two Weapon Fighting. Unlike GFB, the DPR increase is small.



      Assumptions:




      • Start with Dex 16

      • Increase at levels 4 and 8

      • 65% hit chance

      • GFB's secondary damage is calculated as half1


      [DPR-Level] chart, with the 3 possibilities: Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) Green-Flame Blade (GFB) and Lethal Strike (LethalS):
      DPR comparison



      As clearly visible from this graph, Lethal Strike is strictly weaker than simply Two-Weapon Fighting.



      It can be combined with GFB, but even than it is marginal, while the combination takes up at least half of a Trickster's cantrips.





      1) Spreading the damage is less effective than concentrating it on one target, and there might not even be a legit secondary target in range.






      share|improve this answer























      • Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
        – HellSaint
        Nov 17 at 9:18













      up vote
      2
      down vote










      up vote
      2
      down vote









      This is too weak to be a cantrip



      Just like with Green Flame Blade, you can't use Two Weapon Fighting. Unlike GFB, the DPR increase is small.



      Assumptions:




      • Start with Dex 16

      • Increase at levels 4 and 8

      • 65% hit chance

      • GFB's secondary damage is calculated as half1


      [DPR-Level] chart, with the 3 possibilities: Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) Green-Flame Blade (GFB) and Lethal Strike (LethalS):
      DPR comparison



      As clearly visible from this graph, Lethal Strike is strictly weaker than simply Two-Weapon Fighting.



      It can be combined with GFB, but even than it is marginal, while the combination takes up at least half of a Trickster's cantrips.





      1) Spreading the damage is less effective than concentrating it on one target, and there might not even be a legit secondary target in range.






      share|improve this answer














      This is too weak to be a cantrip



      Just like with Green Flame Blade, you can't use Two Weapon Fighting. Unlike GFB, the DPR increase is small.



      Assumptions:




      • Start with Dex 16

      • Increase at levels 4 and 8

      • 65% hit chance

      • GFB's secondary damage is calculated as half1


      [DPR-Level] chart, with the 3 possibilities: Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) Green-Flame Blade (GFB) and Lethal Strike (LethalS):
      DPR comparison



      As clearly visible from this graph, Lethal Strike is strictly weaker than simply Two-Weapon Fighting.



      It can be combined with GFB, but even than it is marginal, while the combination takes up at least half of a Trickster's cantrips.





      1) Spreading the damage is less effective than concentrating it on one target, and there might not even be a legit secondary target in range.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Nov 17 at 9:36

























      answered Nov 17 at 9:10









      András

      24.8k1090183




      24.8k1090183












      • Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
        – HellSaint
        Nov 17 at 9:18


















      • Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
        – HellSaint
        Nov 17 at 9:18
















      Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
      – HellSaint
      Nov 17 at 9:18




      Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
      – HellSaint
      Nov 17 at 9:18










      up vote
      1
      down vote













      For a single-classed Arcane Trickster, it's fine.



      The Bonus Action is pretty valuable for a Rogue of any type, and using their Bonus Action to cast this cantrip instead means they're not





      • Hideing to gain advantage (or to avoid damage)

      • Attacking with an off-hand weapon to improve the odds of landing their Sneak Attack

      • Moving their Mage Hand


      Or any of a number of other things they might prefer to be doing on this turn.



      Meanwhile, gaining an extra Crit on a 19 only adds about 4-10% damage to your hit, depending on your level and the AC of your target, as shown by this table I generated of DPR values:



      begin{array}{|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|}
      hline
      Level & Normal AC0 & Normal AC14 & Normal AC20 & LS AC0 & LS AC14 & LS AC20 \ hline
      1 & 10.85 & 7 & 3.7 & 11.25 & 7.4 & 4.1 \ hline
      3 & 14.35 & 9.275 & 4.925 & 14.925 & 9.85 & 5.5 \ hline
      5 & 18.8 & 14.05 & 8.35 & 19.55 & 14.8 & 9.1 \ hline
      7 & 22.3 & 16.675 & 9.925 & 23.225 & 17.6 & 10.85 \ hline
      9 & 26.75 & 22.7 & 14.6 & 27.85 & 23.8 & 15.7 \ hline
      11 & 30.25 & 25.675 & 16.525 & 31.525 & 26.95 & 17.8 \ hline
      13 & 33.75 & 30.35 & 20.15 & 35.2 & 31.8 & 21.6 \ hline
      15 & 37.25 & 33.5 & 22.25 & 38.875 & 35.125 & 23.875 \ hline
      17 & 40.75 & 38.7 & 26.4 & 42.55 & 40.5 & 28.2 \ hline
      19 & 44.25 & 42.025 & 28.675 & 46.225 & 44 & 30.65 \ hline
      end{array}



      Rogue starts with 16 Dexterity, only takes Dexterity ASIs until they reach 20, fights with a non-magical Rapier as their Finesse weapon.



      The Full Stats for this character can be found here: https://gist.github.com/Xirema/01a95b6a1994afaa39ecb610ff363d9f



      What's important is that Lethal Strike does increase DPR, especially against high-AC characters, but it's still a pretty marginal gain. Hideing to gain advantage will usually result in a higher DPR gain than by using this Cantrip. So if they already have a source of Advantage, or otherwise just want those sweet sweet crits, this will help them do that without completely overpowering the character.






      share|improve this answer



























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        For a single-classed Arcane Trickster, it's fine.



        The Bonus Action is pretty valuable for a Rogue of any type, and using their Bonus Action to cast this cantrip instead means they're not





        • Hideing to gain advantage (or to avoid damage)

        • Attacking with an off-hand weapon to improve the odds of landing their Sneak Attack

        • Moving their Mage Hand


        Or any of a number of other things they might prefer to be doing on this turn.



        Meanwhile, gaining an extra Crit on a 19 only adds about 4-10% damage to your hit, depending on your level and the AC of your target, as shown by this table I generated of DPR values:



        begin{array}{|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|}
        hline
        Level & Normal AC0 & Normal AC14 & Normal AC20 & LS AC0 & LS AC14 & LS AC20 \ hline
        1 & 10.85 & 7 & 3.7 & 11.25 & 7.4 & 4.1 \ hline
        3 & 14.35 & 9.275 & 4.925 & 14.925 & 9.85 & 5.5 \ hline
        5 & 18.8 & 14.05 & 8.35 & 19.55 & 14.8 & 9.1 \ hline
        7 & 22.3 & 16.675 & 9.925 & 23.225 & 17.6 & 10.85 \ hline
        9 & 26.75 & 22.7 & 14.6 & 27.85 & 23.8 & 15.7 \ hline
        11 & 30.25 & 25.675 & 16.525 & 31.525 & 26.95 & 17.8 \ hline
        13 & 33.75 & 30.35 & 20.15 & 35.2 & 31.8 & 21.6 \ hline
        15 & 37.25 & 33.5 & 22.25 & 38.875 & 35.125 & 23.875 \ hline
        17 & 40.75 & 38.7 & 26.4 & 42.55 & 40.5 & 28.2 \ hline
        19 & 44.25 & 42.025 & 28.675 & 46.225 & 44 & 30.65 \ hline
        end{array}



        Rogue starts with 16 Dexterity, only takes Dexterity ASIs until they reach 20, fights with a non-magical Rapier as their Finesse weapon.



        The Full Stats for this character can be found here: https://gist.github.com/Xirema/01a95b6a1994afaa39ecb610ff363d9f



        What's important is that Lethal Strike does increase DPR, especially against high-AC characters, but it's still a pretty marginal gain. Hideing to gain advantage will usually result in a higher DPR gain than by using this Cantrip. So if they already have a source of Advantage, or otherwise just want those sweet sweet crits, this will help them do that without completely overpowering the character.






        share|improve this answer

























          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          For a single-classed Arcane Trickster, it's fine.



          The Bonus Action is pretty valuable for a Rogue of any type, and using their Bonus Action to cast this cantrip instead means they're not





          • Hideing to gain advantage (or to avoid damage)

          • Attacking with an off-hand weapon to improve the odds of landing their Sneak Attack

          • Moving their Mage Hand


          Or any of a number of other things they might prefer to be doing on this turn.



          Meanwhile, gaining an extra Crit on a 19 only adds about 4-10% damage to your hit, depending on your level and the AC of your target, as shown by this table I generated of DPR values:



          begin{array}{|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|}
          hline
          Level & Normal AC0 & Normal AC14 & Normal AC20 & LS AC0 & LS AC14 & LS AC20 \ hline
          1 & 10.85 & 7 & 3.7 & 11.25 & 7.4 & 4.1 \ hline
          3 & 14.35 & 9.275 & 4.925 & 14.925 & 9.85 & 5.5 \ hline
          5 & 18.8 & 14.05 & 8.35 & 19.55 & 14.8 & 9.1 \ hline
          7 & 22.3 & 16.675 & 9.925 & 23.225 & 17.6 & 10.85 \ hline
          9 & 26.75 & 22.7 & 14.6 & 27.85 & 23.8 & 15.7 \ hline
          11 & 30.25 & 25.675 & 16.525 & 31.525 & 26.95 & 17.8 \ hline
          13 & 33.75 & 30.35 & 20.15 & 35.2 & 31.8 & 21.6 \ hline
          15 & 37.25 & 33.5 & 22.25 & 38.875 & 35.125 & 23.875 \ hline
          17 & 40.75 & 38.7 & 26.4 & 42.55 & 40.5 & 28.2 \ hline
          19 & 44.25 & 42.025 & 28.675 & 46.225 & 44 & 30.65 \ hline
          end{array}



          Rogue starts with 16 Dexterity, only takes Dexterity ASIs until they reach 20, fights with a non-magical Rapier as their Finesse weapon.



          The Full Stats for this character can be found here: https://gist.github.com/Xirema/01a95b6a1994afaa39ecb610ff363d9f



          What's important is that Lethal Strike does increase DPR, especially against high-AC characters, but it's still a pretty marginal gain. Hideing to gain advantage will usually result in a higher DPR gain than by using this Cantrip. So if they already have a source of Advantage, or otherwise just want those sweet sweet crits, this will help them do that without completely overpowering the character.






          share|improve this answer














          For a single-classed Arcane Trickster, it's fine.



          The Bonus Action is pretty valuable for a Rogue of any type, and using their Bonus Action to cast this cantrip instead means they're not





          • Hideing to gain advantage (or to avoid damage)

          • Attacking with an off-hand weapon to improve the odds of landing their Sneak Attack

          • Moving their Mage Hand


          Or any of a number of other things they might prefer to be doing on this turn.



          Meanwhile, gaining an extra Crit on a 19 only adds about 4-10% damage to your hit, depending on your level and the AC of your target, as shown by this table I generated of DPR values:



          begin{array}{|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|}
          hline
          Level & Normal AC0 & Normal AC14 & Normal AC20 & LS AC0 & LS AC14 & LS AC20 \ hline
          1 & 10.85 & 7 & 3.7 & 11.25 & 7.4 & 4.1 \ hline
          3 & 14.35 & 9.275 & 4.925 & 14.925 & 9.85 & 5.5 \ hline
          5 & 18.8 & 14.05 & 8.35 & 19.55 & 14.8 & 9.1 \ hline
          7 & 22.3 & 16.675 & 9.925 & 23.225 & 17.6 & 10.85 \ hline
          9 & 26.75 & 22.7 & 14.6 & 27.85 & 23.8 & 15.7 \ hline
          11 & 30.25 & 25.675 & 16.525 & 31.525 & 26.95 & 17.8 \ hline
          13 & 33.75 & 30.35 & 20.15 & 35.2 & 31.8 & 21.6 \ hline
          15 & 37.25 & 33.5 & 22.25 & 38.875 & 35.125 & 23.875 \ hline
          17 & 40.75 & 38.7 & 26.4 & 42.55 & 40.5 & 28.2 \ hline
          19 & 44.25 & 42.025 & 28.675 & 46.225 & 44 & 30.65 \ hline
          end{array}



          Rogue starts with 16 Dexterity, only takes Dexterity ASIs until they reach 20, fights with a non-magical Rapier as their Finesse weapon.



          The Full Stats for this character can be found here: https://gist.github.com/Xirema/01a95b6a1994afaa39ecb610ff363d9f



          What's important is that Lethal Strike does increase DPR, especially against high-AC characters, but it's still a pretty marginal gain. Hideing to gain advantage will usually result in a higher DPR gain than by using this Cantrip. So if they already have a source of Advantage, or otherwise just want those sweet sweet crits, this will help them do that without completely overpowering the character.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Nov 16 at 16:02

























          answered Nov 16 at 15:57









          Xirema

          12.4k23776




          12.4k23776






















              up vote
              1
              down vote













              Too strong as cantrip; weak as leveled spell



              It's too strong as a cantrip. However, it's also too weak for a first level spell. The reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because there's really no reason not to use it.



              Rogues have more things to do with their bonus actions than most classes, but unless you really need to hide or dash, there's literally no reason not to use this cantrip to double your chances to crit, which is stepping on the fighter's toes a bit, because one of their archetypes has that as an ability.



              Once you make it a first level spell however, it becomes far too weak, because it's not really worth a spell slot to have a 5% higher chance of critting. The only reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because it doesn't cost you anything, and there's no real reason not to use it. Once it costs spell slots, it's not worth it.



              I don't think there is any real way to salvage the spell to make it cantrip worthy.



              On bonus action costs



              A lot of other answers are pointing out that the cost "isn't next to nothing" because you could be using an off-hand attack, but in all seriousness, what Arcane Trickster is ever going to be using an off-hand attack? You are far more likely to be using Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade as a cantrip, which means you can't use an off-hand attack.



              You can, however, use Lethal Strike and then Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade.



              If you are using the optional flanking rules it'd be fairly trivial to get advantage and double crit chance on a Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade attack.






              share|improve this answer























              • It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
                – András
                Nov 17 at 9:12















              up vote
              1
              down vote













              Too strong as cantrip; weak as leveled spell



              It's too strong as a cantrip. However, it's also too weak for a first level spell. The reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because there's really no reason not to use it.



              Rogues have more things to do with their bonus actions than most classes, but unless you really need to hide or dash, there's literally no reason not to use this cantrip to double your chances to crit, which is stepping on the fighter's toes a bit, because one of their archetypes has that as an ability.



              Once you make it a first level spell however, it becomes far too weak, because it's not really worth a spell slot to have a 5% higher chance of critting. The only reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because it doesn't cost you anything, and there's no real reason not to use it. Once it costs spell slots, it's not worth it.



              I don't think there is any real way to salvage the spell to make it cantrip worthy.



              On bonus action costs



              A lot of other answers are pointing out that the cost "isn't next to nothing" because you could be using an off-hand attack, but in all seriousness, what Arcane Trickster is ever going to be using an off-hand attack? You are far more likely to be using Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade as a cantrip, which means you can't use an off-hand attack.



              You can, however, use Lethal Strike and then Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade.



              If you are using the optional flanking rules it'd be fairly trivial to get advantage and double crit chance on a Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade attack.






              share|improve this answer























              • It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
                – András
                Nov 17 at 9:12













              up vote
              1
              down vote










              up vote
              1
              down vote









              Too strong as cantrip; weak as leveled spell



              It's too strong as a cantrip. However, it's also too weak for a first level spell. The reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because there's really no reason not to use it.



              Rogues have more things to do with their bonus actions than most classes, but unless you really need to hide or dash, there's literally no reason not to use this cantrip to double your chances to crit, which is stepping on the fighter's toes a bit, because one of their archetypes has that as an ability.



              Once you make it a first level spell however, it becomes far too weak, because it's not really worth a spell slot to have a 5% higher chance of critting. The only reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because it doesn't cost you anything, and there's no real reason not to use it. Once it costs spell slots, it's not worth it.



              I don't think there is any real way to salvage the spell to make it cantrip worthy.



              On bonus action costs



              A lot of other answers are pointing out that the cost "isn't next to nothing" because you could be using an off-hand attack, but in all seriousness, what Arcane Trickster is ever going to be using an off-hand attack? You are far more likely to be using Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade as a cantrip, which means you can't use an off-hand attack.



              You can, however, use Lethal Strike and then Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade.



              If you are using the optional flanking rules it'd be fairly trivial to get advantage and double crit chance on a Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade attack.






              share|improve this answer














              Too strong as cantrip; weak as leveled spell



              It's too strong as a cantrip. However, it's also too weak for a first level spell. The reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because there's really no reason not to use it.



              Rogues have more things to do with their bonus actions than most classes, but unless you really need to hide or dash, there's literally no reason not to use this cantrip to double your chances to crit, which is stepping on the fighter's toes a bit, because one of their archetypes has that as an ability.



              Once you make it a first level spell however, it becomes far too weak, because it's not really worth a spell slot to have a 5% higher chance of critting. The only reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because it doesn't cost you anything, and there's no real reason not to use it. Once it costs spell slots, it's not worth it.



              I don't think there is any real way to salvage the spell to make it cantrip worthy.



              On bonus action costs



              A lot of other answers are pointing out that the cost "isn't next to nothing" because you could be using an off-hand attack, but in all seriousness, what Arcane Trickster is ever going to be using an off-hand attack? You are far more likely to be using Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade as a cantrip, which means you can't use an off-hand attack.



              You can, however, use Lethal Strike and then Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade.



              If you are using the optional flanking rules it'd be fairly trivial to get advantage and double crit chance on a Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade attack.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Nov 16 at 23:13









              V2Blast

              18.1k248114




              18.1k248114










              answered Nov 16 at 15:28









              Theik

              11.6k4767




              11.6k4767












              • It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
                – András
                Nov 17 at 9:12


















              • It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
                – András
                Nov 17 at 9:12
















              It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
              – András
              Nov 17 at 9:12




              It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
              – András
              Nov 17 at 9:12










              up vote
              0
              down vote













              Doubling your crit chance with a bonus action that doesn't waste other resources is unbalanced.



              A possible solution is to make this spell level 1. However, being level makes it too weak, IMO...



              I think you can tweak this a bit (make it have a duration, like a full Round, but cost a level), but being a cantrip seems too strong for me. If you follow the idea of having a 1 round duration, it means you benefit with this on attacks, reactions, Hasted actions, etc. Might be worthy then.






              share|improve this answer

























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                Doubling your crit chance with a bonus action that doesn't waste other resources is unbalanced.



                A possible solution is to make this spell level 1. However, being level makes it too weak, IMO...



                I think you can tweak this a bit (make it have a duration, like a full Round, but cost a level), but being a cantrip seems too strong for me. If you follow the idea of having a 1 round duration, it means you benefit with this on attacks, reactions, Hasted actions, etc. Might be worthy then.






                share|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  Doubling your crit chance with a bonus action that doesn't waste other resources is unbalanced.



                  A possible solution is to make this spell level 1. However, being level makes it too weak, IMO...



                  I think you can tweak this a bit (make it have a duration, like a full Round, but cost a level), but being a cantrip seems too strong for me. If you follow the idea of having a 1 round duration, it means you benefit with this on attacks, reactions, Hasted actions, etc. Might be worthy then.






                  share|improve this answer












                  Doubling your crit chance with a bonus action that doesn't waste other resources is unbalanced.



                  A possible solution is to make this spell level 1. However, being level makes it too weak, IMO...



                  I think you can tweak this a bit (make it have a duration, like a full Round, but cost a level), but being a cantrip seems too strong for me. If you follow the idea of having a 1 round duration, it means you benefit with this on attacks, reactions, Hasted actions, etc. Might be worthy then.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Nov 16 at 15:28









                  BlueMoon93

                  10.8k961118




                  10.8k961118






























                       

                      draft saved


                      draft discarded



















































                       


                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f135698%2fis-this-homebrew-variant-of-true-strike-too-strong-to-be-a-cantrip%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      Plaza Victoria

                      Puebla de Zaragoza

                      Musa