Is this homebrew variant of True Strike too strong to be a cantrip?
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12
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Lethal Strike
Enchantment cantrip
Components: V S
Casting Time: 1 Bonus Action
Duration: 1 turn
When you roll a 19 on a weapon attack, that attack is also a critical hit, then this spell ends.
This spell is brewed for my players' Arcane Trickster, who would like a combat cantrip that will enhance his sneak attack. He does not like true strike because it wastes one full turn before he can attack, thus I make this one requiring bonus action instead.
I'm worried that making it requiring bonus action instead of action will make this overpowered.
Is this homebrew spell overpowered as a cantrip? If yes, what is the suggested spell level for this? What can be modified so this can stay as a cantrip?
dnd-5e spells homebrew balance cantrips
add a comment |
up vote
12
down vote
favorite
Lethal Strike
Enchantment cantrip
Components: V S
Casting Time: 1 Bonus Action
Duration: 1 turn
When you roll a 19 on a weapon attack, that attack is also a critical hit, then this spell ends.
This spell is brewed for my players' Arcane Trickster, who would like a combat cantrip that will enhance his sneak attack. He does not like true strike because it wastes one full turn before he can attack, thus I make this one requiring bonus action instead.
I'm worried that making it requiring bonus action instead of action will make this overpowered.
Is this homebrew spell overpowered as a cantrip? If yes, what is the suggested spell level for this? What can be modified so this can stay as a cantrip?
dnd-5e spells homebrew balance cantrips
3
Is the duration "1 turn" to be read as "until the end of the current turn" or did you mean something else?
– Sdjz
Nov 16 at 15:25
Yes, until the end of current turn @Sdjz
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 15:32
To clarify - does the 19 auto hit for this spell, like a Natural 20 critical hit does? Or would a roll of 19 + modifiers still have to hit, and assuming it does, then deal double damage as normal for a critical hit?
– Rheios
Nov 16 at 21:31
@Rheios yes, it's basically Improved Critical Hit classfeat
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 23:57
add a comment |
up vote
12
down vote
favorite
up vote
12
down vote
favorite
Lethal Strike
Enchantment cantrip
Components: V S
Casting Time: 1 Bonus Action
Duration: 1 turn
When you roll a 19 on a weapon attack, that attack is also a critical hit, then this spell ends.
This spell is brewed for my players' Arcane Trickster, who would like a combat cantrip that will enhance his sneak attack. He does not like true strike because it wastes one full turn before he can attack, thus I make this one requiring bonus action instead.
I'm worried that making it requiring bonus action instead of action will make this overpowered.
Is this homebrew spell overpowered as a cantrip? If yes, what is the suggested spell level for this? What can be modified so this can stay as a cantrip?
dnd-5e spells homebrew balance cantrips
Lethal Strike
Enchantment cantrip
Components: V S
Casting Time: 1 Bonus Action
Duration: 1 turn
When you roll a 19 on a weapon attack, that attack is also a critical hit, then this spell ends.
This spell is brewed for my players' Arcane Trickster, who would like a combat cantrip that will enhance his sneak attack. He does not like true strike because it wastes one full turn before he can attack, thus I make this one requiring bonus action instead.
I'm worried that making it requiring bonus action instead of action will make this overpowered.
Is this homebrew spell overpowered as a cantrip? If yes, what is the suggested spell level for this? What can be modified so this can stay as a cantrip?
dnd-5e spells homebrew balance cantrips
dnd-5e spells homebrew balance cantrips
edited Nov 16 at 15:23
V2Blast
18.1k248114
18.1k248114
asked Nov 16 at 15:19
Vylix
8,267229106
8,267229106
3
Is the duration "1 turn" to be read as "until the end of the current turn" or did you mean something else?
– Sdjz
Nov 16 at 15:25
Yes, until the end of current turn @Sdjz
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 15:32
To clarify - does the 19 auto hit for this spell, like a Natural 20 critical hit does? Or would a roll of 19 + modifiers still have to hit, and assuming it does, then deal double damage as normal for a critical hit?
– Rheios
Nov 16 at 21:31
@Rheios yes, it's basically Improved Critical Hit classfeat
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 23:57
add a comment |
3
Is the duration "1 turn" to be read as "until the end of the current turn" or did you mean something else?
– Sdjz
Nov 16 at 15:25
Yes, until the end of current turn @Sdjz
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 15:32
To clarify - does the 19 auto hit for this spell, like a Natural 20 critical hit does? Or would a roll of 19 + modifiers still have to hit, and assuming it does, then deal double damage as normal for a critical hit?
– Rheios
Nov 16 at 21:31
@Rheios yes, it's basically Improved Critical Hit classfeat
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 23:57
3
3
Is the duration "1 turn" to be read as "until the end of the current turn" or did you mean something else?
– Sdjz
Nov 16 at 15:25
Is the duration "1 turn" to be read as "until the end of the current turn" or did you mean something else?
– Sdjz
Nov 16 at 15:25
Yes, until the end of current turn @Sdjz
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 15:32
Yes, until the end of current turn @Sdjz
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 15:32
To clarify - does the 19 auto hit for this spell, like a Natural 20 critical hit does? Or would a roll of 19 + modifiers still have to hit, and assuming it does, then deal double damage as normal for a critical hit?
– Rheios
Nov 16 at 21:31
To clarify - does the 19 auto hit for this spell, like a Natural 20 critical hit does? Or would a roll of 19 + modifiers still have to hit, and assuming it does, then deal double damage as normal for a critical hit?
– Rheios
Nov 16 at 21:31
@Rheios yes, it's basically Improved Critical Hit classfeat
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 23:57
@Rheios yes, it's basically Improved Critical Hit classfeat
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 23:57
add a comment |
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
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up vote
17
down vote
accepted
It's about on par with Green-Flame Blade, a spell published in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (at least for characters with only one attack).
Lethal Strike's expected bonus damage for a sneak attacking level 3 rogue is 0.575 damage (5% * 1d8+2d6 (11.5) = 0.575), considerably less than Green Flame Blade, which deals damage equal to the caster's ability score modifier (we'll say 1-3, since the rogue casting it most likely has a decent Int score), albeit to a second target in melee range.
I'd counter the argument that others have made about it being zero cost to cast this. Rogues have a huge number of uses for a bonus action, and this is competing with all of them. For example, if the character were instead dual wielding short swords, rather than using lethal strike with a rapier, as above, their damage instead increases by 1d6-1 or 2.5 * 1.05 = 2.625 (-1 from going from d8 to d6 on their main hand attack, with a 5% crit chance), assuming they hit with both attacks.
All that aside, your duration doesn't fit with other published spells. Every spell I'm aware of that buffs the next attack is written with the following duration:
Duration: Concentration, Up to 1 round
As long as the only character to ever get this spell is this rogue, I don't really see a huge problem with it. If a character with a less crowded bonus action economy learned it, however, it could be problematic.
3
I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
– Matt Rick
Nov 16 at 16:07
1
Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
– Theik
Nov 16 at 22:17
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
In isolation, it's fine...
Compared to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide weapon cantrips - Green-Flame Blade, Booming Blade, etc. - I don't find it to be terribly powerful. The can-stab-trips all deal guaranteed extra damage on a hit (scaling by tier) of an elemental type (which may trigger vulnerabilities or other effects, like fire vs. some regenerators). Your cantrip has a 1 in 20 chance (only when a 19 is rolled) of adding damage, and for most casters that damage does not scale.
... and for an Arcane Trickster, it's even better but still not overwhelming...
In the hands of an Arcane Trickster, the additional damage from a critical hit scales, but it's infrequent enough (again 1 in 20) to be equivalent or perhaps even worse than getting bonus damage on every hit. An additional downside for the rogue is the verbal component. Without the benefit of a Sorcerer's Subtle Spell, casting a spell is a loud process. If one uses this spell before attacking, one is no longer hidden. If the rogue has some other way to get Sneak Attack, so be it.
...but you have to be wary of unintended synergy.
A character with True Strike and Lethal Strike could cast True Strike on one turn, then Lethal Strike and attack on the next. Advantage and increased threat range without any real expenditure of resources is a bit much. And in the hands of a Rogue, the ability to build in advantage and an extended critical range is too much.
12
You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
– KRyan
Nov 16 at 15:46
1
As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:22
If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
– András
Nov 17 at 9:26
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
This is too weak to be a cantrip
Just like with Green Flame Blade, you can't use Two Weapon Fighting. Unlike GFB, the DPR increase is small.
Assumptions:
- Start with Dex 16
- Increase at levels 4 and 8
- 65% hit chance
- GFB's secondary damage is calculated as half1
[DPR-Level] chart, with the 3 possibilities: Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) Green-Flame Blade (GFB) and Lethal Strike (LethalS):
As clearly visible from this graph, Lethal Strike is strictly weaker than simply Two-Weapon Fighting.
It can be combined with GFB, but even than it is marginal, while the combination takes up at least half of a Trickster's cantrips.
1) Spreading the damage is less effective than concentrating it on one target, and there might not even be a legit secondary target in range.
Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:18
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up vote
1
down vote
For a single-classed Arcane Trickster, it's fine.
The Bonus Action is pretty valuable for a Rogue of any type, and using their Bonus Action to cast this cantrip instead means they're not
Hideing to gain advantage (or to avoid damage)- Attacking with an off-hand weapon to improve the odds of landing their Sneak Attack
- Moving their Mage Hand
Or any of a number of other things they might prefer to be doing on this turn.
Meanwhile, gaining an extra Crit on a 19 only adds about 4-10% damage to your hit, depending on your level and the AC of your target, as shown by this table I generated of DPR values:
begin{array}{|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|}
hline
Level & Normal AC0 & Normal AC14 & Normal AC20 & LS AC0 & LS AC14 & LS AC20 \ hline
1 & 10.85 & 7 & 3.7 & 11.25 & 7.4 & 4.1 \ hline
3 & 14.35 & 9.275 & 4.925 & 14.925 & 9.85 & 5.5 \ hline
5 & 18.8 & 14.05 & 8.35 & 19.55 & 14.8 & 9.1 \ hline
7 & 22.3 & 16.675 & 9.925 & 23.225 & 17.6 & 10.85 \ hline
9 & 26.75 & 22.7 & 14.6 & 27.85 & 23.8 & 15.7 \ hline
11 & 30.25 & 25.675 & 16.525 & 31.525 & 26.95 & 17.8 \ hline
13 & 33.75 & 30.35 & 20.15 & 35.2 & 31.8 & 21.6 \ hline
15 & 37.25 & 33.5 & 22.25 & 38.875 & 35.125 & 23.875 \ hline
17 & 40.75 & 38.7 & 26.4 & 42.55 & 40.5 & 28.2 \ hline
19 & 44.25 & 42.025 & 28.675 & 46.225 & 44 & 30.65 \ hline
end{array}
Rogue starts with 16 Dexterity, only takes Dexterity ASIs until they reach 20, fights with a non-magical Rapier as their Finesse weapon.
The Full Stats for this character can be found here: https://gist.github.com/Xirema/01a95b6a1994afaa39ecb610ff363d9f
What's important is that Lethal Strike does increase DPR, especially against high-AC characters, but it's still a pretty marginal gain. Hideing to gain advantage will usually result in a higher DPR gain than by using this Cantrip. So if they already have a source of Advantage, or otherwise just want those sweet sweet crits, this will help them do that without completely overpowering the character.
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up vote
1
down vote
Too strong as cantrip; weak as leveled spell
It's too strong as a cantrip. However, it's also too weak for a first level spell. The reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because there's really no reason not to use it.
Rogues have more things to do with their bonus actions than most classes, but unless you really need to hide or dash, there's literally no reason not to use this cantrip to double your chances to crit, which is stepping on the fighter's toes a bit, because one of their archetypes has that as an ability.
Once you make it a first level spell however, it becomes far too weak, because it's not really worth a spell slot to have a 5% higher chance of critting. The only reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because it doesn't cost you anything, and there's no real reason not to use it. Once it costs spell slots, it's not worth it.
I don't think there is any real way to salvage the spell to make it cantrip worthy.
On bonus action costs
A lot of other answers are pointing out that the cost "isn't next to nothing" because you could be using an off-hand attack, but in all seriousness, what Arcane Trickster is ever going to be using an off-hand attack? You are far more likely to be using Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade as a cantrip, which means you can't use an off-hand attack.
You can, however, use Lethal Strike and then Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade.
If you are using the optional flanking rules it'd be fairly trivial to get advantage and double crit chance on a Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade attack.
It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
– András
Nov 17 at 9:12
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up vote
0
down vote
Doubling your crit chance with a bonus action that doesn't waste other resources is unbalanced.
A possible solution is to make this spell level 1. However, being level makes it too weak, IMO...
I think you can tweak this a bit (make it have a duration, like a full Round, but cost a level), but being a cantrip seems too strong for me. If you follow the idea of having a 1 round duration, it means you benefit with this on attacks, reactions, Hasted actions, etc. Might be worthy then.
add a comment |
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
17
down vote
accepted
It's about on par with Green-Flame Blade, a spell published in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (at least for characters with only one attack).
Lethal Strike's expected bonus damage for a sneak attacking level 3 rogue is 0.575 damage (5% * 1d8+2d6 (11.5) = 0.575), considerably less than Green Flame Blade, which deals damage equal to the caster's ability score modifier (we'll say 1-3, since the rogue casting it most likely has a decent Int score), albeit to a second target in melee range.
I'd counter the argument that others have made about it being zero cost to cast this. Rogues have a huge number of uses for a bonus action, and this is competing with all of them. For example, if the character were instead dual wielding short swords, rather than using lethal strike with a rapier, as above, their damage instead increases by 1d6-1 or 2.5 * 1.05 = 2.625 (-1 from going from d8 to d6 on their main hand attack, with a 5% crit chance), assuming they hit with both attacks.
All that aside, your duration doesn't fit with other published spells. Every spell I'm aware of that buffs the next attack is written with the following duration:
Duration: Concentration, Up to 1 round
As long as the only character to ever get this spell is this rogue, I don't really see a huge problem with it. If a character with a less crowded bonus action economy learned it, however, it could be problematic.
3
I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
– Matt Rick
Nov 16 at 16:07
1
Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
– Theik
Nov 16 at 22:17
add a comment |
up vote
17
down vote
accepted
It's about on par with Green-Flame Blade, a spell published in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (at least for characters with only one attack).
Lethal Strike's expected bonus damage for a sneak attacking level 3 rogue is 0.575 damage (5% * 1d8+2d6 (11.5) = 0.575), considerably less than Green Flame Blade, which deals damage equal to the caster's ability score modifier (we'll say 1-3, since the rogue casting it most likely has a decent Int score), albeit to a second target in melee range.
I'd counter the argument that others have made about it being zero cost to cast this. Rogues have a huge number of uses for a bonus action, and this is competing with all of them. For example, if the character were instead dual wielding short swords, rather than using lethal strike with a rapier, as above, their damage instead increases by 1d6-1 or 2.5 * 1.05 = 2.625 (-1 from going from d8 to d6 on their main hand attack, with a 5% crit chance), assuming they hit with both attacks.
All that aside, your duration doesn't fit with other published spells. Every spell I'm aware of that buffs the next attack is written with the following duration:
Duration: Concentration, Up to 1 round
As long as the only character to ever get this spell is this rogue, I don't really see a huge problem with it. If a character with a less crowded bonus action economy learned it, however, it could be problematic.
3
I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
– Matt Rick
Nov 16 at 16:07
1
Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
– Theik
Nov 16 at 22:17
add a comment |
up vote
17
down vote
accepted
up vote
17
down vote
accepted
It's about on par with Green-Flame Blade, a spell published in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (at least for characters with only one attack).
Lethal Strike's expected bonus damage for a sneak attacking level 3 rogue is 0.575 damage (5% * 1d8+2d6 (11.5) = 0.575), considerably less than Green Flame Blade, which deals damage equal to the caster's ability score modifier (we'll say 1-3, since the rogue casting it most likely has a decent Int score), albeit to a second target in melee range.
I'd counter the argument that others have made about it being zero cost to cast this. Rogues have a huge number of uses for a bonus action, and this is competing with all of them. For example, if the character were instead dual wielding short swords, rather than using lethal strike with a rapier, as above, their damage instead increases by 1d6-1 or 2.5 * 1.05 = 2.625 (-1 from going from d8 to d6 on their main hand attack, with a 5% crit chance), assuming they hit with both attacks.
All that aside, your duration doesn't fit with other published spells. Every spell I'm aware of that buffs the next attack is written with the following duration:
Duration: Concentration, Up to 1 round
As long as the only character to ever get this spell is this rogue, I don't really see a huge problem with it. If a character with a less crowded bonus action economy learned it, however, it could be problematic.
It's about on par with Green-Flame Blade, a spell published in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (at least for characters with only one attack).
Lethal Strike's expected bonus damage for a sneak attacking level 3 rogue is 0.575 damage (5% * 1d8+2d6 (11.5) = 0.575), considerably less than Green Flame Blade, which deals damage equal to the caster's ability score modifier (we'll say 1-3, since the rogue casting it most likely has a decent Int score), albeit to a second target in melee range.
I'd counter the argument that others have made about it being zero cost to cast this. Rogues have a huge number of uses for a bonus action, and this is competing with all of them. For example, if the character were instead dual wielding short swords, rather than using lethal strike with a rapier, as above, their damage instead increases by 1d6-1 or 2.5 * 1.05 = 2.625 (-1 from going from d8 to d6 on their main hand attack, with a 5% crit chance), assuming they hit with both attacks.
All that aside, your duration doesn't fit with other published spells. Every spell I'm aware of that buffs the next attack is written with the following duration:
Duration: Concentration, Up to 1 round
As long as the only character to ever get this spell is this rogue, I don't really see a huge problem with it. If a character with a less crowded bonus action economy learned it, however, it could be problematic.
edited Nov 16 at 17:41
V2Blast
18.1k248114
18.1k248114
answered Nov 16 at 15:49
Matt Rick
952515
952515
3
I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
– Matt Rick
Nov 16 at 16:07
1
Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
– Theik
Nov 16 at 22:17
add a comment |
3
I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
– Matt Rick
Nov 16 at 16:07
1
Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
– Theik
Nov 16 at 22:17
3
3
I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
– Matt Rick
Nov 16 at 16:07
I might add that having it be a concentration spell has the added benefit of preventing stacking True Strike or another "special attack" spell.
– Matt Rick
Nov 16 at 16:07
1
1
Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
– Theik
Nov 16 at 22:17
Lethal strike into green-flame blade is a possibility though. Green-flame blade into off-hand attack is not.
– Theik
Nov 16 at 22:17
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
In isolation, it's fine...
Compared to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide weapon cantrips - Green-Flame Blade, Booming Blade, etc. - I don't find it to be terribly powerful. The can-stab-trips all deal guaranteed extra damage on a hit (scaling by tier) of an elemental type (which may trigger vulnerabilities or other effects, like fire vs. some regenerators). Your cantrip has a 1 in 20 chance (only when a 19 is rolled) of adding damage, and for most casters that damage does not scale.
... and for an Arcane Trickster, it's even better but still not overwhelming...
In the hands of an Arcane Trickster, the additional damage from a critical hit scales, but it's infrequent enough (again 1 in 20) to be equivalent or perhaps even worse than getting bonus damage on every hit. An additional downside for the rogue is the verbal component. Without the benefit of a Sorcerer's Subtle Spell, casting a spell is a loud process. If one uses this spell before attacking, one is no longer hidden. If the rogue has some other way to get Sneak Attack, so be it.
...but you have to be wary of unintended synergy.
A character with True Strike and Lethal Strike could cast True Strike on one turn, then Lethal Strike and attack on the next. Advantage and increased threat range without any real expenditure of resources is a bit much. And in the hands of a Rogue, the ability to build in advantage and an extended critical range is too much.
12
You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
– KRyan
Nov 16 at 15:46
1
As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:22
If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
– András
Nov 17 at 9:26
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
In isolation, it's fine...
Compared to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide weapon cantrips - Green-Flame Blade, Booming Blade, etc. - I don't find it to be terribly powerful. The can-stab-trips all deal guaranteed extra damage on a hit (scaling by tier) of an elemental type (which may trigger vulnerabilities or other effects, like fire vs. some regenerators). Your cantrip has a 1 in 20 chance (only when a 19 is rolled) of adding damage, and for most casters that damage does not scale.
... and for an Arcane Trickster, it's even better but still not overwhelming...
In the hands of an Arcane Trickster, the additional damage from a critical hit scales, but it's infrequent enough (again 1 in 20) to be equivalent or perhaps even worse than getting bonus damage on every hit. An additional downside for the rogue is the verbal component. Without the benefit of a Sorcerer's Subtle Spell, casting a spell is a loud process. If one uses this spell before attacking, one is no longer hidden. If the rogue has some other way to get Sneak Attack, so be it.
...but you have to be wary of unintended synergy.
A character with True Strike and Lethal Strike could cast True Strike on one turn, then Lethal Strike and attack on the next. Advantage and increased threat range without any real expenditure of resources is a bit much. And in the hands of a Rogue, the ability to build in advantage and an extended critical range is too much.
12
You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
– KRyan
Nov 16 at 15:46
1
As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:22
If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
– András
Nov 17 at 9:26
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
In isolation, it's fine...
Compared to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide weapon cantrips - Green-Flame Blade, Booming Blade, etc. - I don't find it to be terribly powerful. The can-stab-trips all deal guaranteed extra damage on a hit (scaling by tier) of an elemental type (which may trigger vulnerabilities or other effects, like fire vs. some regenerators). Your cantrip has a 1 in 20 chance (only when a 19 is rolled) of adding damage, and for most casters that damage does not scale.
... and for an Arcane Trickster, it's even better but still not overwhelming...
In the hands of an Arcane Trickster, the additional damage from a critical hit scales, but it's infrequent enough (again 1 in 20) to be equivalent or perhaps even worse than getting bonus damage on every hit. An additional downside for the rogue is the verbal component. Without the benefit of a Sorcerer's Subtle Spell, casting a spell is a loud process. If one uses this spell before attacking, one is no longer hidden. If the rogue has some other way to get Sneak Attack, so be it.
...but you have to be wary of unintended synergy.
A character with True Strike and Lethal Strike could cast True Strike on one turn, then Lethal Strike and attack on the next. Advantage and increased threat range without any real expenditure of resources is a bit much. And in the hands of a Rogue, the ability to build in advantage and an extended critical range is too much.
In isolation, it's fine...
Compared to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide weapon cantrips - Green-Flame Blade, Booming Blade, etc. - I don't find it to be terribly powerful. The can-stab-trips all deal guaranteed extra damage on a hit (scaling by tier) of an elemental type (which may trigger vulnerabilities or other effects, like fire vs. some regenerators). Your cantrip has a 1 in 20 chance (only when a 19 is rolled) of adding damage, and for most casters that damage does not scale.
... and for an Arcane Trickster, it's even better but still not overwhelming...
In the hands of an Arcane Trickster, the additional damage from a critical hit scales, but it's infrequent enough (again 1 in 20) to be equivalent or perhaps even worse than getting bonus damage on every hit. An additional downside for the rogue is the verbal component. Without the benefit of a Sorcerer's Subtle Spell, casting a spell is a loud process. If one uses this spell before attacking, one is no longer hidden. If the rogue has some other way to get Sneak Attack, so be it.
...but you have to be wary of unintended synergy.
A character with True Strike and Lethal Strike could cast True Strike on one turn, then Lethal Strike and attack on the next. Advantage and increased threat range without any real expenditure of resources is a bit much. And in the hands of a Rogue, the ability to build in advantage and an extended critical range is too much.
edited Nov 16 at 17:41
V2Blast
18.1k248114
18.1k248114
answered Nov 16 at 15:38
T.J.L.
27.2k385145
27.2k385145
12
You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
– KRyan
Nov 16 at 15:46
1
As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:22
If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
– András
Nov 17 at 9:26
add a comment |
12
You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
– KRyan
Nov 16 at 15:46
1
As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:22
If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
– András
Nov 17 at 9:26
12
12
You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
– KRyan
Nov 16 at 15:46
You say “without any real expenditure of resources” when someone has invested an entire turn into this. Don’t ignore actions as resources—in the heat of combat, they are (by far) the most valuable resources there are. Unless casting true strike more-than-doubles the expected damage of the next attack, you were better off just attacking twice and not bothering with the spell.
– KRyan
Nov 16 at 15:46
1
1
As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:22
As KRyan said, action economy is important. True Strike is actually an awful cantrip since most of the time attacking twice (once in your current turn and again in the next) is better than attacking with advantage. If it was ordered as "you attack with advantage in the current turn and lose your action for the next turn" it might be better. But as it is, I really don't see many applications for skipping a turn.
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:22
If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
– András
Nov 17 at 9:26
If you cast True Strike you spend two rounds on 1 attack, so the DPR goes down. Assuming one of your colleagues is standing next to the target, which should be the case anyway. You should never cast True Strike
– András
Nov 17 at 9:26
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
This is too weak to be a cantrip
Just like with Green Flame Blade, you can't use Two Weapon Fighting. Unlike GFB, the DPR increase is small.
Assumptions:
- Start with Dex 16
- Increase at levels 4 and 8
- 65% hit chance
- GFB's secondary damage is calculated as half1
[DPR-Level] chart, with the 3 possibilities: Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) Green-Flame Blade (GFB) and Lethal Strike (LethalS):
As clearly visible from this graph, Lethal Strike is strictly weaker than simply Two-Weapon Fighting.
It can be combined with GFB, but even than it is marginal, while the combination takes up at least half of a Trickster's cantrips.
1) Spreading the damage is less effective than concentrating it on one target, and there might not even be a legit secondary target in range.
Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:18
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
This is too weak to be a cantrip
Just like with Green Flame Blade, you can't use Two Weapon Fighting. Unlike GFB, the DPR increase is small.
Assumptions:
- Start with Dex 16
- Increase at levels 4 and 8
- 65% hit chance
- GFB's secondary damage is calculated as half1
[DPR-Level] chart, with the 3 possibilities: Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) Green-Flame Blade (GFB) and Lethal Strike (LethalS):
As clearly visible from this graph, Lethal Strike is strictly weaker than simply Two-Weapon Fighting.
It can be combined with GFB, but even than it is marginal, while the combination takes up at least half of a Trickster's cantrips.
1) Spreading the damage is less effective than concentrating it on one target, and there might not even be a legit secondary target in range.
Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:18
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
This is too weak to be a cantrip
Just like with Green Flame Blade, you can't use Two Weapon Fighting. Unlike GFB, the DPR increase is small.
Assumptions:
- Start with Dex 16
- Increase at levels 4 and 8
- 65% hit chance
- GFB's secondary damage is calculated as half1
[DPR-Level] chart, with the 3 possibilities: Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) Green-Flame Blade (GFB) and Lethal Strike (LethalS):
As clearly visible from this graph, Lethal Strike is strictly weaker than simply Two-Weapon Fighting.
It can be combined with GFB, but even than it is marginal, while the combination takes up at least half of a Trickster's cantrips.
1) Spreading the damage is less effective than concentrating it on one target, and there might not even be a legit secondary target in range.
This is too weak to be a cantrip
Just like with Green Flame Blade, you can't use Two Weapon Fighting. Unlike GFB, the DPR increase is small.
Assumptions:
- Start with Dex 16
- Increase at levels 4 and 8
- 65% hit chance
- GFB's secondary damage is calculated as half1
[DPR-Level] chart, with the 3 possibilities: Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) Green-Flame Blade (GFB) and Lethal Strike (LethalS):
As clearly visible from this graph, Lethal Strike is strictly weaker than simply Two-Weapon Fighting.
It can be combined with GFB, but even than it is marginal, while the combination takes up at least half of a Trickster's cantrips.
1) Spreading the damage is less effective than concentrating it on one target, and there might not even be a legit secondary target in range.
edited Nov 17 at 9:36
answered Nov 17 at 9:10
András
24.8k1090183
24.8k1090183
Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:18
add a comment |
Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:18
Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:18
Yeah, that should do it. I'll delete the comments haha
– HellSaint
Nov 17 at 9:18
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
For a single-classed Arcane Trickster, it's fine.
The Bonus Action is pretty valuable for a Rogue of any type, and using their Bonus Action to cast this cantrip instead means they're not
Hideing to gain advantage (or to avoid damage)- Attacking with an off-hand weapon to improve the odds of landing their Sneak Attack
- Moving their Mage Hand
Or any of a number of other things they might prefer to be doing on this turn.
Meanwhile, gaining an extra Crit on a 19 only adds about 4-10% damage to your hit, depending on your level and the AC of your target, as shown by this table I generated of DPR values:
begin{array}{|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|}
hline
Level & Normal AC0 & Normal AC14 & Normal AC20 & LS AC0 & LS AC14 & LS AC20 \ hline
1 & 10.85 & 7 & 3.7 & 11.25 & 7.4 & 4.1 \ hline
3 & 14.35 & 9.275 & 4.925 & 14.925 & 9.85 & 5.5 \ hline
5 & 18.8 & 14.05 & 8.35 & 19.55 & 14.8 & 9.1 \ hline
7 & 22.3 & 16.675 & 9.925 & 23.225 & 17.6 & 10.85 \ hline
9 & 26.75 & 22.7 & 14.6 & 27.85 & 23.8 & 15.7 \ hline
11 & 30.25 & 25.675 & 16.525 & 31.525 & 26.95 & 17.8 \ hline
13 & 33.75 & 30.35 & 20.15 & 35.2 & 31.8 & 21.6 \ hline
15 & 37.25 & 33.5 & 22.25 & 38.875 & 35.125 & 23.875 \ hline
17 & 40.75 & 38.7 & 26.4 & 42.55 & 40.5 & 28.2 \ hline
19 & 44.25 & 42.025 & 28.675 & 46.225 & 44 & 30.65 \ hline
end{array}
Rogue starts with 16 Dexterity, only takes Dexterity ASIs until they reach 20, fights with a non-magical Rapier as their Finesse weapon.
The Full Stats for this character can be found here: https://gist.github.com/Xirema/01a95b6a1994afaa39ecb610ff363d9f
What's important is that Lethal Strike does increase DPR, especially against high-AC characters, but it's still a pretty marginal gain. Hideing to gain advantage will usually result in a higher DPR gain than by using this Cantrip. So if they already have a source of Advantage, or otherwise just want those sweet sweet crits, this will help them do that without completely overpowering the character.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
For a single-classed Arcane Trickster, it's fine.
The Bonus Action is pretty valuable for a Rogue of any type, and using their Bonus Action to cast this cantrip instead means they're not
Hideing to gain advantage (or to avoid damage)- Attacking with an off-hand weapon to improve the odds of landing their Sneak Attack
- Moving their Mage Hand
Or any of a number of other things they might prefer to be doing on this turn.
Meanwhile, gaining an extra Crit on a 19 only adds about 4-10% damage to your hit, depending on your level and the AC of your target, as shown by this table I generated of DPR values:
begin{array}{|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|}
hline
Level & Normal AC0 & Normal AC14 & Normal AC20 & LS AC0 & LS AC14 & LS AC20 \ hline
1 & 10.85 & 7 & 3.7 & 11.25 & 7.4 & 4.1 \ hline
3 & 14.35 & 9.275 & 4.925 & 14.925 & 9.85 & 5.5 \ hline
5 & 18.8 & 14.05 & 8.35 & 19.55 & 14.8 & 9.1 \ hline
7 & 22.3 & 16.675 & 9.925 & 23.225 & 17.6 & 10.85 \ hline
9 & 26.75 & 22.7 & 14.6 & 27.85 & 23.8 & 15.7 \ hline
11 & 30.25 & 25.675 & 16.525 & 31.525 & 26.95 & 17.8 \ hline
13 & 33.75 & 30.35 & 20.15 & 35.2 & 31.8 & 21.6 \ hline
15 & 37.25 & 33.5 & 22.25 & 38.875 & 35.125 & 23.875 \ hline
17 & 40.75 & 38.7 & 26.4 & 42.55 & 40.5 & 28.2 \ hline
19 & 44.25 & 42.025 & 28.675 & 46.225 & 44 & 30.65 \ hline
end{array}
Rogue starts with 16 Dexterity, only takes Dexterity ASIs until they reach 20, fights with a non-magical Rapier as their Finesse weapon.
The Full Stats for this character can be found here: https://gist.github.com/Xirema/01a95b6a1994afaa39ecb610ff363d9f
What's important is that Lethal Strike does increase DPR, especially against high-AC characters, but it's still a pretty marginal gain. Hideing to gain advantage will usually result in a higher DPR gain than by using this Cantrip. So if they already have a source of Advantage, or otherwise just want those sweet sweet crits, this will help them do that without completely overpowering the character.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
For a single-classed Arcane Trickster, it's fine.
The Bonus Action is pretty valuable for a Rogue of any type, and using their Bonus Action to cast this cantrip instead means they're not
Hideing to gain advantage (or to avoid damage)- Attacking with an off-hand weapon to improve the odds of landing their Sneak Attack
- Moving their Mage Hand
Or any of a number of other things they might prefer to be doing on this turn.
Meanwhile, gaining an extra Crit on a 19 only adds about 4-10% damage to your hit, depending on your level and the AC of your target, as shown by this table I generated of DPR values:
begin{array}{|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|}
hline
Level & Normal AC0 & Normal AC14 & Normal AC20 & LS AC0 & LS AC14 & LS AC20 \ hline
1 & 10.85 & 7 & 3.7 & 11.25 & 7.4 & 4.1 \ hline
3 & 14.35 & 9.275 & 4.925 & 14.925 & 9.85 & 5.5 \ hline
5 & 18.8 & 14.05 & 8.35 & 19.55 & 14.8 & 9.1 \ hline
7 & 22.3 & 16.675 & 9.925 & 23.225 & 17.6 & 10.85 \ hline
9 & 26.75 & 22.7 & 14.6 & 27.85 & 23.8 & 15.7 \ hline
11 & 30.25 & 25.675 & 16.525 & 31.525 & 26.95 & 17.8 \ hline
13 & 33.75 & 30.35 & 20.15 & 35.2 & 31.8 & 21.6 \ hline
15 & 37.25 & 33.5 & 22.25 & 38.875 & 35.125 & 23.875 \ hline
17 & 40.75 & 38.7 & 26.4 & 42.55 & 40.5 & 28.2 \ hline
19 & 44.25 & 42.025 & 28.675 & 46.225 & 44 & 30.65 \ hline
end{array}
Rogue starts with 16 Dexterity, only takes Dexterity ASIs until they reach 20, fights with a non-magical Rapier as their Finesse weapon.
The Full Stats for this character can be found here: https://gist.github.com/Xirema/01a95b6a1994afaa39ecb610ff363d9f
What's important is that Lethal Strike does increase DPR, especially against high-AC characters, but it's still a pretty marginal gain. Hideing to gain advantage will usually result in a higher DPR gain than by using this Cantrip. So if they already have a source of Advantage, or otherwise just want those sweet sweet crits, this will help them do that without completely overpowering the character.
For a single-classed Arcane Trickster, it's fine.
The Bonus Action is pretty valuable for a Rogue of any type, and using their Bonus Action to cast this cantrip instead means they're not
Hideing to gain advantage (or to avoid damage)- Attacking with an off-hand weapon to improve the odds of landing their Sneak Attack
- Moving their Mage Hand
Or any of a number of other things they might prefer to be doing on this turn.
Meanwhile, gaining an extra Crit on a 19 only adds about 4-10% damage to your hit, depending on your level and the AC of your target, as shown by this table I generated of DPR values:
begin{array}{|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|}
hline
Level & Normal AC0 & Normal AC14 & Normal AC20 & LS AC0 & LS AC14 & LS AC20 \ hline
1 & 10.85 & 7 & 3.7 & 11.25 & 7.4 & 4.1 \ hline
3 & 14.35 & 9.275 & 4.925 & 14.925 & 9.85 & 5.5 \ hline
5 & 18.8 & 14.05 & 8.35 & 19.55 & 14.8 & 9.1 \ hline
7 & 22.3 & 16.675 & 9.925 & 23.225 & 17.6 & 10.85 \ hline
9 & 26.75 & 22.7 & 14.6 & 27.85 & 23.8 & 15.7 \ hline
11 & 30.25 & 25.675 & 16.525 & 31.525 & 26.95 & 17.8 \ hline
13 & 33.75 & 30.35 & 20.15 & 35.2 & 31.8 & 21.6 \ hline
15 & 37.25 & 33.5 & 22.25 & 38.875 & 35.125 & 23.875 \ hline
17 & 40.75 & 38.7 & 26.4 & 42.55 & 40.5 & 28.2 \ hline
19 & 44.25 & 42.025 & 28.675 & 46.225 & 44 & 30.65 \ hline
end{array}
Rogue starts with 16 Dexterity, only takes Dexterity ASIs until they reach 20, fights with a non-magical Rapier as their Finesse weapon.
The Full Stats for this character can be found here: https://gist.github.com/Xirema/01a95b6a1994afaa39ecb610ff363d9f
What's important is that Lethal Strike does increase DPR, especially against high-AC characters, but it's still a pretty marginal gain. Hideing to gain advantage will usually result in a higher DPR gain than by using this Cantrip. So if they already have a source of Advantage, or otherwise just want those sweet sweet crits, this will help them do that without completely overpowering the character.
edited Nov 16 at 16:02
answered Nov 16 at 15:57
Xirema
12.4k23776
12.4k23776
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Too strong as cantrip; weak as leveled spell
It's too strong as a cantrip. However, it's also too weak for a first level spell. The reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because there's really no reason not to use it.
Rogues have more things to do with their bonus actions than most classes, but unless you really need to hide or dash, there's literally no reason not to use this cantrip to double your chances to crit, which is stepping on the fighter's toes a bit, because one of their archetypes has that as an ability.
Once you make it a first level spell however, it becomes far too weak, because it's not really worth a spell slot to have a 5% higher chance of critting. The only reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because it doesn't cost you anything, and there's no real reason not to use it. Once it costs spell slots, it's not worth it.
I don't think there is any real way to salvage the spell to make it cantrip worthy.
On bonus action costs
A lot of other answers are pointing out that the cost "isn't next to nothing" because you could be using an off-hand attack, but in all seriousness, what Arcane Trickster is ever going to be using an off-hand attack? You are far more likely to be using Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade as a cantrip, which means you can't use an off-hand attack.
You can, however, use Lethal Strike and then Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade.
If you are using the optional flanking rules it'd be fairly trivial to get advantage and double crit chance on a Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade attack.
It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
– András
Nov 17 at 9:12
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Too strong as cantrip; weak as leveled spell
It's too strong as a cantrip. However, it's also too weak for a first level spell. The reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because there's really no reason not to use it.
Rogues have more things to do with their bonus actions than most classes, but unless you really need to hide or dash, there's literally no reason not to use this cantrip to double your chances to crit, which is stepping on the fighter's toes a bit, because one of their archetypes has that as an ability.
Once you make it a first level spell however, it becomes far too weak, because it's not really worth a spell slot to have a 5% higher chance of critting. The only reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because it doesn't cost you anything, and there's no real reason not to use it. Once it costs spell slots, it's not worth it.
I don't think there is any real way to salvage the spell to make it cantrip worthy.
On bonus action costs
A lot of other answers are pointing out that the cost "isn't next to nothing" because you could be using an off-hand attack, but in all seriousness, what Arcane Trickster is ever going to be using an off-hand attack? You are far more likely to be using Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade as a cantrip, which means you can't use an off-hand attack.
You can, however, use Lethal Strike and then Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade.
If you are using the optional flanking rules it'd be fairly trivial to get advantage and double crit chance on a Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade attack.
It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
– András
Nov 17 at 9:12
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Too strong as cantrip; weak as leveled spell
It's too strong as a cantrip. However, it's also too weak for a first level spell. The reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because there's really no reason not to use it.
Rogues have more things to do with their bonus actions than most classes, but unless you really need to hide or dash, there's literally no reason not to use this cantrip to double your chances to crit, which is stepping on the fighter's toes a bit, because one of their archetypes has that as an ability.
Once you make it a first level spell however, it becomes far too weak, because it's not really worth a spell slot to have a 5% higher chance of critting. The only reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because it doesn't cost you anything, and there's no real reason not to use it. Once it costs spell slots, it's not worth it.
I don't think there is any real way to salvage the spell to make it cantrip worthy.
On bonus action costs
A lot of other answers are pointing out that the cost "isn't next to nothing" because you could be using an off-hand attack, but in all seriousness, what Arcane Trickster is ever going to be using an off-hand attack? You are far more likely to be using Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade as a cantrip, which means you can't use an off-hand attack.
You can, however, use Lethal Strike and then Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade.
If you are using the optional flanking rules it'd be fairly trivial to get advantage and double crit chance on a Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade attack.
Too strong as cantrip; weak as leveled spell
It's too strong as a cantrip. However, it's also too weak for a first level spell. The reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because there's really no reason not to use it.
Rogues have more things to do with their bonus actions than most classes, but unless you really need to hide or dash, there's literally no reason not to use this cantrip to double your chances to crit, which is stepping on the fighter's toes a bit, because one of their archetypes has that as an ability.
Once you make it a first level spell however, it becomes far too weak, because it's not really worth a spell slot to have a 5% higher chance of critting. The only reason it's too strong as a cantrip is because it doesn't cost you anything, and there's no real reason not to use it. Once it costs spell slots, it's not worth it.
I don't think there is any real way to salvage the spell to make it cantrip worthy.
On bonus action costs
A lot of other answers are pointing out that the cost "isn't next to nothing" because you could be using an off-hand attack, but in all seriousness, what Arcane Trickster is ever going to be using an off-hand attack? You are far more likely to be using Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade as a cantrip, which means you can't use an off-hand attack.
You can, however, use Lethal Strike and then Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade.
If you are using the optional flanking rules it'd be fairly trivial to get advantage and double crit chance on a Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade attack.
edited Nov 16 at 23:13
V2Blast
18.1k248114
18.1k248114
answered Nov 16 at 15:28
Theik
11.6k4767
11.6k4767
It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
– András
Nov 17 at 9:12
add a comment |
It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
– András
Nov 17 at 9:12
It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
– András
Nov 17 at 9:12
It is weaker than TWF, see my answer
– András
Nov 17 at 9:12
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Doubling your crit chance with a bonus action that doesn't waste other resources is unbalanced.
A possible solution is to make this spell level 1. However, being level makes it too weak, IMO...
I think you can tweak this a bit (make it have a duration, like a full Round, but cost a level), but being a cantrip seems too strong for me. If you follow the idea of having a 1 round duration, it means you benefit with this on attacks, reactions, Hasted actions, etc. Might be worthy then.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Doubling your crit chance with a bonus action that doesn't waste other resources is unbalanced.
A possible solution is to make this spell level 1. However, being level makes it too weak, IMO...
I think you can tweak this a bit (make it have a duration, like a full Round, but cost a level), but being a cantrip seems too strong for me. If you follow the idea of having a 1 round duration, it means you benefit with this on attacks, reactions, Hasted actions, etc. Might be worthy then.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Doubling your crit chance with a bonus action that doesn't waste other resources is unbalanced.
A possible solution is to make this spell level 1. However, being level makes it too weak, IMO...
I think you can tweak this a bit (make it have a duration, like a full Round, but cost a level), but being a cantrip seems too strong for me. If you follow the idea of having a 1 round duration, it means you benefit with this on attacks, reactions, Hasted actions, etc. Might be worthy then.
Doubling your crit chance with a bonus action that doesn't waste other resources is unbalanced.
A possible solution is to make this spell level 1. However, being level makes it too weak, IMO...
I think you can tweak this a bit (make it have a duration, like a full Round, but cost a level), but being a cantrip seems too strong for me. If you follow the idea of having a 1 round duration, it means you benefit with this on attacks, reactions, Hasted actions, etc. Might be worthy then.
answered Nov 16 at 15:28
BlueMoon93
10.8k961118
10.8k961118
add a comment |
add a comment |
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3
Is the duration "1 turn" to be read as "until the end of the current turn" or did you mean something else?
– Sdjz
Nov 16 at 15:25
Yes, until the end of current turn @Sdjz
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 15:32
To clarify - does the 19 auto hit for this spell, like a Natural 20 critical hit does? Or would a roll of 19 + modifiers still have to hit, and assuming it does, then deal double damage as normal for a critical hit?
– Rheios
Nov 16 at 21:31
@Rheios yes, it's basically Improved Critical Hit classfeat
– Vylix
Nov 16 at 23:57