Example of norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ that's NOT absolutely monotonic.












6












$begingroup$


We call a norm $|cdot|$ on $mathbb{R}^n$ absolutely monotonic if
$$
|a_i| leq |b_i|, i=1,cdots,n implies |a| leq |b|.
$$



What's an example of norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ that's not absolutely monotonic?





This is an exercise left to the reader -- so presumably not too difficult. But it's giving me some trouble.



The usual suspects that come to mind, i.e. the $ell^p$ norms, $p in [1,infty]$, are all absolutely monotonic.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$

















    6












    $begingroup$


    We call a norm $|cdot|$ on $mathbb{R}^n$ absolutely monotonic if
    $$
    |a_i| leq |b_i|, i=1,cdots,n implies |a| leq |b|.
    $$



    What's an example of norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ that's not absolutely monotonic?





    This is an exercise left to the reader -- so presumably not too difficult. But it's giving me some trouble.



    The usual suspects that come to mind, i.e. the $ell^p$ norms, $p in [1,infty]$, are all absolutely monotonic.










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$















      6












      6








      6


      1



      $begingroup$


      We call a norm $|cdot|$ on $mathbb{R}^n$ absolutely monotonic if
      $$
      |a_i| leq |b_i|, i=1,cdots,n implies |a| leq |b|.
      $$



      What's an example of norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ that's not absolutely monotonic?





      This is an exercise left to the reader -- so presumably not too difficult. But it's giving me some trouble.



      The usual suspects that come to mind, i.e. the $ell^p$ norms, $p in [1,infty]$, are all absolutely monotonic.










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      We call a norm $|cdot|$ on $mathbb{R}^n$ absolutely monotonic if
      $$
      |a_i| leq |b_i|, i=1,cdots,n implies |a| leq |b|.
      $$



      What's an example of norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ that's not absolutely monotonic?





      This is an exercise left to the reader -- so presumably not too difficult. But it's giving me some trouble.



      The usual suspects that come to mind, i.e. the $ell^p$ norms, $p in [1,infty]$, are all absolutely monotonic.







      real-analysis norm normed-spaces






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked Dec 14 '18 at 14:58









      zxmknzxmkn

      340213




      340213






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4












          $begingroup$

          Consider a sheer $A(x,y):=(x,y-x)$ and then the norm $|(x,y)|:=|A(x,y)|_1$. Then $|(1,0)|=2$ but $|(1,1)|=1$.



          Interestingly though, for every norm $|cdot|:mathbb{R}^2to[0,infty)$ there exists a linear map $A:mathbb{R}^2tomathbb{R}^2$ such that $|cdot|circ A$ is an absolutely monotonic norm.



          To prove this, note that a norm is absolutely monotonic if (and only if, may I add) the smallest axis-aligned rectangle containing the unit disk touches the unit circle at the intersections with the $x$- and $y$-axis. This is a consequence of the triangle inequality. So if we find vectors $v$ and $u$ on the unit sphere such that the unit disk is contained in the parallellogram $[-1,1]vtimes[-1,1]u$, then the unique linear map that sends $v$ to $(1,0)$ and $u$ to $(0,1)$ suffices.



          In order to find such $v$ and $u$, we will use the intermediate value theorem. For any angle $theta$ let $v(theta)$ be the unique vector on the unit sphere with angle $theta$ with respect to the origin. The uniqueness follows from the scaling property and the non-degeneracy of norms, and the continuity follows from the triangle inequality. Then let $u(theta)$ be the vector on the unit sphere furthest to the left of the line generated by $v(theta)$. A little bit of a problem here is that $u(theta)$ is not always uniquely defined, and $thetamapsto u(theta)$ is only continuous at points where it is uniquely defined. However, for now just pretend that it is a well-defined continuous function, and I will come back to this later.



          We now find that $mathbb{R}vtimes[-1,1]u$ contains the unit disk. Most importantly the intersection of the unit disk with $(1,infty)vtimes[-1,1]u$ is fully contained in either $(1,infty)vtimes[-1,0]u$ or $(1,infty)vtimes[0,1]u$, due to the triangle inequality. If for some $theta$ this intersection lies in one of the two, then if we move $theta$ such that the new $v(theta)$ is where the old $u(theta)$ was, the intersection will lie in the other one. For some $theta$ in between, we must therefore have that the intersection lies in neither. Therefore the unit disk will be contained in $[-1,1]vtimes[-1,1]u$.



          Finally, to come back to the little problem. For such problematic $theta$ you can imagine fixing $v(theta)$ while moving $u(theta)$ continuously along the set of all possible values.



          This is a little bit heuristic, but I hope it is convincing anyways.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$





















            2












            $begingroup$

            I would like to give an answer similar to Smiley-Craft but from a different point of view:



            The standard norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ is given by $|(a,b)|= sqrt {a^2+b^2}$. We can define a similar norm using a different basis.



            Given $u,v$ a basis of $mathbb{R}^2$. We can define the norm of $w$ by $$|w| = sqrt{a^2+b^2}$$ where $w=au+bv$.



            It is an easy exercise to show that this is indeed a norm (same proof as in the standard norm case).



            Since we can change coordinates it will be really easy to define a non-monotonic norm:



            For instance choose $u=(frac{1}{2},0)$ and $v=(1,1)$ then $|(1,0)| = 2$ while $|(1,1)| = 1$.



            Side note: It is an interesting question whether every norm is absolutely monotonic with respect to some basis. I would guess the answer is yes but I don't know how to approach this question yet.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              One question: $(1,0) = 2cdot(frac{1}{2}, 0) + 0 cdot (1,1)$, so with the norm $|cdot|$ as you define it, wouldn't we then have $|(1,0)| = sqrt{2^2 + 0^2} = 2$, instead of $sqrt{2}$, as you write?
              $endgroup$
              – zxmkn
              Dec 14 '18 at 16:02










            • $begingroup$
              I would like to say that this is indeed a very good intuitive approach. It is also how I found my example. About your side note: I believe I know how to prove this, but the margin of a comment is too narrow to contain ;) Where should I write this?
              $endgroup$
              – SmileyCraft
              Dec 14 '18 at 16:13










            • $begingroup$
              @zxmkn You're right, corrected.
              $endgroup$
              – Yanko
              Dec 14 '18 at 19:25










            • $begingroup$
              @SmileyCraft haha. If you want I can ask this question and you can add your answer.
              $endgroup$
              – Yanko
              Dec 14 '18 at 19:27






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              I edited my own answer to include this interesting piece of trivia.
              $endgroup$
              – SmileyCraft
              Dec 14 '18 at 20:17



















            0












            $begingroup$

            Here's a way to come up with an answer using as little geometric intuition as possible.



            The standard norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ can be written as:



            $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2} mapsto begin{pmatrix}a \ bend{pmatrix}^T begin{bmatrix} 1 & 0 \ 0 & 1end{bmatrix} begin{pmatrix} a\ b end{pmatrix} tag{1} $$



            or



            $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2} mapsto a^2 + b^2 tag{2} $$



            Which makes it immediately clear that, for arbitrarily chosen $(a_1, b_1)$ and $(a_2, b_2)$ .



            $$ frac{a_1^2 le a_2^2 ;;;;text{and};;;; b_1^2 le b_2^2}{a_1^2 + b_1^2 le a_2^2 + b_2^2} tag{3} $$



            If we stare at (1) and (2), it suggests that by adding a cross term we can "penalize" negative components, so let's pick a simple one, let's call the new norm $nu$.



            $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} mapsto begin{pmatrix}a \ bend{pmatrix}^T begin{bmatrix} 1 & 1 \ 0 & 1end{bmatrix} begin{pmatrix} a\ b end{pmatrix} tag{4} $$



            $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} mapsto a^2 + ab + b^2 tag{5} $$



            Let's pick $(a_1, b_1) = (2, 2)$ and $(a_2, b_2) = (-3, 3)$ .



            $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} 2 \ 2 end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} = 4 + 4 + 4 = 12 tag{6} $$



            $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} -3 \ 3 end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} = 9 - 9 + 9 = 9 tag{7} $$



            So, $(2, 2)$ and $(-3, 3)$ indeed demonstrates that $nu$ is not absolutely monotonic.



            All that's left is to verify that it's an actual norm.



            The norm axioms are:



            $$ nu,(alpha v) = |alpha| ,nu,(v) tag{8} $$
            $$ nu,(u+v) le nu,(u) + nu,(v) tag{9} $$
            $$ nu,(v) = 0 implies v = vec{0} tag{10} $$



            (8) falls out of the fact that matrix multiplication is linear. (10) falls out of the invertibility of $left[begin{smallmatrix}1& 1\0& 1end{smallmatrix}right]$



            I think the most straightforward way to prove (9) is to note that the matrix $left[begin{smallmatrix}1& 1\0& 1end{smallmatrix}right]$ is upper triangular and hence its eigenvalues with multiplicity are the multiset ${1, 1}$ . Since all of its eigenvalues are positive, the matrix is positive definite and therefore the quadratic form $nu,(u) = u^T left[begin{smallmatrix}1 & 1 \0 & 1end{smallmatrix}right] u$ is a norm.






            share|cite|improve this answer











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              3 Answers
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              3 Answers
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              4












              $begingroup$

              Consider a sheer $A(x,y):=(x,y-x)$ and then the norm $|(x,y)|:=|A(x,y)|_1$. Then $|(1,0)|=2$ but $|(1,1)|=1$.



              Interestingly though, for every norm $|cdot|:mathbb{R}^2to[0,infty)$ there exists a linear map $A:mathbb{R}^2tomathbb{R}^2$ such that $|cdot|circ A$ is an absolutely monotonic norm.



              To prove this, note that a norm is absolutely monotonic if (and only if, may I add) the smallest axis-aligned rectangle containing the unit disk touches the unit circle at the intersections with the $x$- and $y$-axis. This is a consequence of the triangle inequality. So if we find vectors $v$ and $u$ on the unit sphere such that the unit disk is contained in the parallellogram $[-1,1]vtimes[-1,1]u$, then the unique linear map that sends $v$ to $(1,0)$ and $u$ to $(0,1)$ suffices.



              In order to find such $v$ and $u$, we will use the intermediate value theorem. For any angle $theta$ let $v(theta)$ be the unique vector on the unit sphere with angle $theta$ with respect to the origin. The uniqueness follows from the scaling property and the non-degeneracy of norms, and the continuity follows from the triangle inequality. Then let $u(theta)$ be the vector on the unit sphere furthest to the left of the line generated by $v(theta)$. A little bit of a problem here is that $u(theta)$ is not always uniquely defined, and $thetamapsto u(theta)$ is only continuous at points where it is uniquely defined. However, for now just pretend that it is a well-defined continuous function, and I will come back to this later.



              We now find that $mathbb{R}vtimes[-1,1]u$ contains the unit disk. Most importantly the intersection of the unit disk with $(1,infty)vtimes[-1,1]u$ is fully contained in either $(1,infty)vtimes[-1,0]u$ or $(1,infty)vtimes[0,1]u$, due to the triangle inequality. If for some $theta$ this intersection lies in one of the two, then if we move $theta$ such that the new $v(theta)$ is where the old $u(theta)$ was, the intersection will lie in the other one. For some $theta$ in between, we must therefore have that the intersection lies in neither. Therefore the unit disk will be contained in $[-1,1]vtimes[-1,1]u$.



              Finally, to come back to the little problem. For such problematic $theta$ you can imagine fixing $v(theta)$ while moving $u(theta)$ continuously along the set of all possible values.



              This is a little bit heuristic, but I hope it is convincing anyways.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                4












                $begingroup$

                Consider a sheer $A(x,y):=(x,y-x)$ and then the norm $|(x,y)|:=|A(x,y)|_1$. Then $|(1,0)|=2$ but $|(1,1)|=1$.



                Interestingly though, for every norm $|cdot|:mathbb{R}^2to[0,infty)$ there exists a linear map $A:mathbb{R}^2tomathbb{R}^2$ such that $|cdot|circ A$ is an absolutely monotonic norm.



                To prove this, note that a norm is absolutely monotonic if (and only if, may I add) the smallest axis-aligned rectangle containing the unit disk touches the unit circle at the intersections with the $x$- and $y$-axis. This is a consequence of the triangle inequality. So if we find vectors $v$ and $u$ on the unit sphere such that the unit disk is contained in the parallellogram $[-1,1]vtimes[-1,1]u$, then the unique linear map that sends $v$ to $(1,0)$ and $u$ to $(0,1)$ suffices.



                In order to find such $v$ and $u$, we will use the intermediate value theorem. For any angle $theta$ let $v(theta)$ be the unique vector on the unit sphere with angle $theta$ with respect to the origin. The uniqueness follows from the scaling property and the non-degeneracy of norms, and the continuity follows from the triangle inequality. Then let $u(theta)$ be the vector on the unit sphere furthest to the left of the line generated by $v(theta)$. A little bit of a problem here is that $u(theta)$ is not always uniquely defined, and $thetamapsto u(theta)$ is only continuous at points where it is uniquely defined. However, for now just pretend that it is a well-defined continuous function, and I will come back to this later.



                We now find that $mathbb{R}vtimes[-1,1]u$ contains the unit disk. Most importantly the intersection of the unit disk with $(1,infty)vtimes[-1,1]u$ is fully contained in either $(1,infty)vtimes[-1,0]u$ or $(1,infty)vtimes[0,1]u$, due to the triangle inequality. If for some $theta$ this intersection lies in one of the two, then if we move $theta$ such that the new $v(theta)$ is where the old $u(theta)$ was, the intersection will lie in the other one. For some $theta$ in between, we must therefore have that the intersection lies in neither. Therefore the unit disk will be contained in $[-1,1]vtimes[-1,1]u$.



                Finally, to come back to the little problem. For such problematic $theta$ you can imagine fixing $v(theta)$ while moving $u(theta)$ continuously along the set of all possible values.



                This is a little bit heuristic, but I hope it is convincing anyways.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  4












                  4








                  4





                  $begingroup$

                  Consider a sheer $A(x,y):=(x,y-x)$ and then the norm $|(x,y)|:=|A(x,y)|_1$. Then $|(1,0)|=2$ but $|(1,1)|=1$.



                  Interestingly though, for every norm $|cdot|:mathbb{R}^2to[0,infty)$ there exists a linear map $A:mathbb{R}^2tomathbb{R}^2$ such that $|cdot|circ A$ is an absolutely monotonic norm.



                  To prove this, note that a norm is absolutely monotonic if (and only if, may I add) the smallest axis-aligned rectangle containing the unit disk touches the unit circle at the intersections with the $x$- and $y$-axis. This is a consequence of the triangle inequality. So if we find vectors $v$ and $u$ on the unit sphere such that the unit disk is contained in the parallellogram $[-1,1]vtimes[-1,1]u$, then the unique linear map that sends $v$ to $(1,0)$ and $u$ to $(0,1)$ suffices.



                  In order to find such $v$ and $u$, we will use the intermediate value theorem. For any angle $theta$ let $v(theta)$ be the unique vector on the unit sphere with angle $theta$ with respect to the origin. The uniqueness follows from the scaling property and the non-degeneracy of norms, and the continuity follows from the triangle inequality. Then let $u(theta)$ be the vector on the unit sphere furthest to the left of the line generated by $v(theta)$. A little bit of a problem here is that $u(theta)$ is not always uniquely defined, and $thetamapsto u(theta)$ is only continuous at points where it is uniquely defined. However, for now just pretend that it is a well-defined continuous function, and I will come back to this later.



                  We now find that $mathbb{R}vtimes[-1,1]u$ contains the unit disk. Most importantly the intersection of the unit disk with $(1,infty)vtimes[-1,1]u$ is fully contained in either $(1,infty)vtimes[-1,0]u$ or $(1,infty)vtimes[0,1]u$, due to the triangle inequality. If for some $theta$ this intersection lies in one of the two, then if we move $theta$ such that the new $v(theta)$ is where the old $u(theta)$ was, the intersection will lie in the other one. For some $theta$ in between, we must therefore have that the intersection lies in neither. Therefore the unit disk will be contained in $[-1,1]vtimes[-1,1]u$.



                  Finally, to come back to the little problem. For such problematic $theta$ you can imagine fixing $v(theta)$ while moving $u(theta)$ continuously along the set of all possible values.



                  This is a little bit heuristic, but I hope it is convincing anyways.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Consider a sheer $A(x,y):=(x,y-x)$ and then the norm $|(x,y)|:=|A(x,y)|_1$. Then $|(1,0)|=2$ but $|(1,1)|=1$.



                  Interestingly though, for every norm $|cdot|:mathbb{R}^2to[0,infty)$ there exists a linear map $A:mathbb{R}^2tomathbb{R}^2$ such that $|cdot|circ A$ is an absolutely monotonic norm.



                  To prove this, note that a norm is absolutely monotonic if (and only if, may I add) the smallest axis-aligned rectangle containing the unit disk touches the unit circle at the intersections with the $x$- and $y$-axis. This is a consequence of the triangle inequality. So if we find vectors $v$ and $u$ on the unit sphere such that the unit disk is contained in the parallellogram $[-1,1]vtimes[-1,1]u$, then the unique linear map that sends $v$ to $(1,0)$ and $u$ to $(0,1)$ suffices.



                  In order to find such $v$ and $u$, we will use the intermediate value theorem. For any angle $theta$ let $v(theta)$ be the unique vector on the unit sphere with angle $theta$ with respect to the origin. The uniqueness follows from the scaling property and the non-degeneracy of norms, and the continuity follows from the triangle inequality. Then let $u(theta)$ be the vector on the unit sphere furthest to the left of the line generated by $v(theta)$. A little bit of a problem here is that $u(theta)$ is not always uniquely defined, and $thetamapsto u(theta)$ is only continuous at points where it is uniquely defined. However, for now just pretend that it is a well-defined continuous function, and I will come back to this later.



                  We now find that $mathbb{R}vtimes[-1,1]u$ contains the unit disk. Most importantly the intersection of the unit disk with $(1,infty)vtimes[-1,1]u$ is fully contained in either $(1,infty)vtimes[-1,0]u$ or $(1,infty)vtimes[0,1]u$, due to the triangle inequality. If for some $theta$ this intersection lies in one of the two, then if we move $theta$ such that the new $v(theta)$ is where the old $u(theta)$ was, the intersection will lie in the other one. For some $theta$ in between, we must therefore have that the intersection lies in neither. Therefore the unit disk will be contained in $[-1,1]vtimes[-1,1]u$.



                  Finally, to come back to the little problem. For such problematic $theta$ you can imagine fixing $v(theta)$ while moving $u(theta)$ continuously along the set of all possible values.



                  This is a little bit heuristic, but I hope it is convincing anyways.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Dec 14 '18 at 20:14

























                  answered Dec 14 '18 at 15:04









                  SmileyCraftSmileyCraft

                  3,561518




                  3,561518























                      2












                      $begingroup$

                      I would like to give an answer similar to Smiley-Craft but from a different point of view:



                      The standard norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ is given by $|(a,b)|= sqrt {a^2+b^2}$. We can define a similar norm using a different basis.



                      Given $u,v$ a basis of $mathbb{R}^2$. We can define the norm of $w$ by $$|w| = sqrt{a^2+b^2}$$ where $w=au+bv$.



                      It is an easy exercise to show that this is indeed a norm (same proof as in the standard norm case).



                      Since we can change coordinates it will be really easy to define a non-monotonic norm:



                      For instance choose $u=(frac{1}{2},0)$ and $v=(1,1)$ then $|(1,0)| = 2$ while $|(1,1)| = 1$.



                      Side note: It is an interesting question whether every norm is absolutely monotonic with respect to some basis. I would guess the answer is yes but I don't know how to approach this question yet.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        One question: $(1,0) = 2cdot(frac{1}{2}, 0) + 0 cdot (1,1)$, so with the norm $|cdot|$ as you define it, wouldn't we then have $|(1,0)| = sqrt{2^2 + 0^2} = 2$, instead of $sqrt{2}$, as you write?
                        $endgroup$
                        – zxmkn
                        Dec 14 '18 at 16:02










                      • $begingroup$
                        I would like to say that this is indeed a very good intuitive approach. It is also how I found my example. About your side note: I believe I know how to prove this, but the margin of a comment is too narrow to contain ;) Where should I write this?
                        $endgroup$
                        – SmileyCraft
                        Dec 14 '18 at 16:13










                      • $begingroup$
                        @zxmkn You're right, corrected.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Yanko
                        Dec 14 '18 at 19:25










                      • $begingroup$
                        @SmileyCraft haha. If you want I can ask this question and you can add your answer.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Yanko
                        Dec 14 '18 at 19:27






                      • 1




                        $begingroup$
                        I edited my own answer to include this interesting piece of trivia.
                        $endgroup$
                        – SmileyCraft
                        Dec 14 '18 at 20:17
















                      2












                      $begingroup$

                      I would like to give an answer similar to Smiley-Craft but from a different point of view:



                      The standard norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ is given by $|(a,b)|= sqrt {a^2+b^2}$. We can define a similar norm using a different basis.



                      Given $u,v$ a basis of $mathbb{R}^2$. We can define the norm of $w$ by $$|w| = sqrt{a^2+b^2}$$ where $w=au+bv$.



                      It is an easy exercise to show that this is indeed a norm (same proof as in the standard norm case).



                      Since we can change coordinates it will be really easy to define a non-monotonic norm:



                      For instance choose $u=(frac{1}{2},0)$ and $v=(1,1)$ then $|(1,0)| = 2$ while $|(1,1)| = 1$.



                      Side note: It is an interesting question whether every norm is absolutely monotonic with respect to some basis. I would guess the answer is yes but I don't know how to approach this question yet.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        One question: $(1,0) = 2cdot(frac{1}{2}, 0) + 0 cdot (1,1)$, so with the norm $|cdot|$ as you define it, wouldn't we then have $|(1,0)| = sqrt{2^2 + 0^2} = 2$, instead of $sqrt{2}$, as you write?
                        $endgroup$
                        – zxmkn
                        Dec 14 '18 at 16:02










                      • $begingroup$
                        I would like to say that this is indeed a very good intuitive approach. It is also how I found my example. About your side note: I believe I know how to prove this, but the margin of a comment is too narrow to contain ;) Where should I write this?
                        $endgroup$
                        – SmileyCraft
                        Dec 14 '18 at 16:13










                      • $begingroup$
                        @zxmkn You're right, corrected.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Yanko
                        Dec 14 '18 at 19:25










                      • $begingroup$
                        @SmileyCraft haha. If you want I can ask this question and you can add your answer.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Yanko
                        Dec 14 '18 at 19:27






                      • 1




                        $begingroup$
                        I edited my own answer to include this interesting piece of trivia.
                        $endgroup$
                        – SmileyCraft
                        Dec 14 '18 at 20:17














                      2












                      2








                      2





                      $begingroup$

                      I would like to give an answer similar to Smiley-Craft but from a different point of view:



                      The standard norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ is given by $|(a,b)|= sqrt {a^2+b^2}$. We can define a similar norm using a different basis.



                      Given $u,v$ a basis of $mathbb{R}^2$. We can define the norm of $w$ by $$|w| = sqrt{a^2+b^2}$$ where $w=au+bv$.



                      It is an easy exercise to show that this is indeed a norm (same proof as in the standard norm case).



                      Since we can change coordinates it will be really easy to define a non-monotonic norm:



                      For instance choose $u=(frac{1}{2},0)$ and $v=(1,1)$ then $|(1,0)| = 2$ while $|(1,1)| = 1$.



                      Side note: It is an interesting question whether every norm is absolutely monotonic with respect to some basis. I would guess the answer is yes but I don't know how to approach this question yet.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$



                      I would like to give an answer similar to Smiley-Craft but from a different point of view:



                      The standard norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ is given by $|(a,b)|= sqrt {a^2+b^2}$. We can define a similar norm using a different basis.



                      Given $u,v$ a basis of $mathbb{R}^2$. We can define the norm of $w$ by $$|w| = sqrt{a^2+b^2}$$ where $w=au+bv$.



                      It is an easy exercise to show that this is indeed a norm (same proof as in the standard norm case).



                      Since we can change coordinates it will be really easy to define a non-monotonic norm:



                      For instance choose $u=(frac{1}{2},0)$ and $v=(1,1)$ then $|(1,0)| = 2$ while $|(1,1)| = 1$.



                      Side note: It is an interesting question whether every norm is absolutely monotonic with respect to some basis. I would guess the answer is yes but I don't know how to approach this question yet.







                      share|cite|improve this answer














                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer








                      edited Dec 14 '18 at 19:25

























                      answered Dec 14 '18 at 15:15









                      YankoYanko

                      7,4801729




                      7,4801729












                      • $begingroup$
                        One question: $(1,0) = 2cdot(frac{1}{2}, 0) + 0 cdot (1,1)$, so with the norm $|cdot|$ as you define it, wouldn't we then have $|(1,0)| = sqrt{2^2 + 0^2} = 2$, instead of $sqrt{2}$, as you write?
                        $endgroup$
                        – zxmkn
                        Dec 14 '18 at 16:02










                      • $begingroup$
                        I would like to say that this is indeed a very good intuitive approach. It is also how I found my example. About your side note: I believe I know how to prove this, but the margin of a comment is too narrow to contain ;) Where should I write this?
                        $endgroup$
                        – SmileyCraft
                        Dec 14 '18 at 16:13










                      • $begingroup$
                        @zxmkn You're right, corrected.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Yanko
                        Dec 14 '18 at 19:25










                      • $begingroup$
                        @SmileyCraft haha. If you want I can ask this question and you can add your answer.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Yanko
                        Dec 14 '18 at 19:27






                      • 1




                        $begingroup$
                        I edited my own answer to include this interesting piece of trivia.
                        $endgroup$
                        – SmileyCraft
                        Dec 14 '18 at 20:17


















                      • $begingroup$
                        One question: $(1,0) = 2cdot(frac{1}{2}, 0) + 0 cdot (1,1)$, so with the norm $|cdot|$ as you define it, wouldn't we then have $|(1,0)| = sqrt{2^2 + 0^2} = 2$, instead of $sqrt{2}$, as you write?
                        $endgroup$
                        – zxmkn
                        Dec 14 '18 at 16:02










                      • $begingroup$
                        I would like to say that this is indeed a very good intuitive approach. It is also how I found my example. About your side note: I believe I know how to prove this, but the margin of a comment is too narrow to contain ;) Where should I write this?
                        $endgroup$
                        – SmileyCraft
                        Dec 14 '18 at 16:13










                      • $begingroup$
                        @zxmkn You're right, corrected.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Yanko
                        Dec 14 '18 at 19:25










                      • $begingroup$
                        @SmileyCraft haha. If you want I can ask this question and you can add your answer.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Yanko
                        Dec 14 '18 at 19:27






                      • 1




                        $begingroup$
                        I edited my own answer to include this interesting piece of trivia.
                        $endgroup$
                        – SmileyCraft
                        Dec 14 '18 at 20:17
















                      $begingroup$
                      One question: $(1,0) = 2cdot(frac{1}{2}, 0) + 0 cdot (1,1)$, so with the norm $|cdot|$ as you define it, wouldn't we then have $|(1,0)| = sqrt{2^2 + 0^2} = 2$, instead of $sqrt{2}$, as you write?
                      $endgroup$
                      – zxmkn
                      Dec 14 '18 at 16:02




                      $begingroup$
                      One question: $(1,0) = 2cdot(frac{1}{2}, 0) + 0 cdot (1,1)$, so with the norm $|cdot|$ as you define it, wouldn't we then have $|(1,0)| = sqrt{2^2 + 0^2} = 2$, instead of $sqrt{2}$, as you write?
                      $endgroup$
                      – zxmkn
                      Dec 14 '18 at 16:02












                      $begingroup$
                      I would like to say that this is indeed a very good intuitive approach. It is also how I found my example. About your side note: I believe I know how to prove this, but the margin of a comment is too narrow to contain ;) Where should I write this?
                      $endgroup$
                      – SmileyCraft
                      Dec 14 '18 at 16:13




                      $begingroup$
                      I would like to say that this is indeed a very good intuitive approach. It is also how I found my example. About your side note: I believe I know how to prove this, but the margin of a comment is too narrow to contain ;) Where should I write this?
                      $endgroup$
                      – SmileyCraft
                      Dec 14 '18 at 16:13












                      $begingroup$
                      @zxmkn You're right, corrected.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Yanko
                      Dec 14 '18 at 19:25




                      $begingroup$
                      @zxmkn You're right, corrected.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Yanko
                      Dec 14 '18 at 19:25












                      $begingroup$
                      @SmileyCraft haha. If you want I can ask this question and you can add your answer.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Yanko
                      Dec 14 '18 at 19:27




                      $begingroup$
                      @SmileyCraft haha. If you want I can ask this question and you can add your answer.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Yanko
                      Dec 14 '18 at 19:27




                      1




                      1




                      $begingroup$
                      I edited my own answer to include this interesting piece of trivia.
                      $endgroup$
                      – SmileyCraft
                      Dec 14 '18 at 20:17




                      $begingroup$
                      I edited my own answer to include this interesting piece of trivia.
                      $endgroup$
                      – SmileyCraft
                      Dec 14 '18 at 20:17











                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      Here's a way to come up with an answer using as little geometric intuition as possible.



                      The standard norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ can be written as:



                      $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2} mapsto begin{pmatrix}a \ bend{pmatrix}^T begin{bmatrix} 1 & 0 \ 0 & 1end{bmatrix} begin{pmatrix} a\ b end{pmatrix} tag{1} $$



                      or



                      $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2} mapsto a^2 + b^2 tag{2} $$



                      Which makes it immediately clear that, for arbitrarily chosen $(a_1, b_1)$ and $(a_2, b_2)$ .



                      $$ frac{a_1^2 le a_2^2 ;;;;text{and};;;; b_1^2 le b_2^2}{a_1^2 + b_1^2 le a_2^2 + b_2^2} tag{3} $$



                      If we stare at (1) and (2), it suggests that by adding a cross term we can "penalize" negative components, so let's pick a simple one, let's call the new norm $nu$.



                      $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} mapsto begin{pmatrix}a \ bend{pmatrix}^T begin{bmatrix} 1 & 1 \ 0 & 1end{bmatrix} begin{pmatrix} a\ b end{pmatrix} tag{4} $$



                      $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} mapsto a^2 + ab + b^2 tag{5} $$



                      Let's pick $(a_1, b_1) = (2, 2)$ and $(a_2, b_2) = (-3, 3)$ .



                      $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} 2 \ 2 end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} = 4 + 4 + 4 = 12 tag{6} $$



                      $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} -3 \ 3 end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} = 9 - 9 + 9 = 9 tag{7} $$



                      So, $(2, 2)$ and $(-3, 3)$ indeed demonstrates that $nu$ is not absolutely monotonic.



                      All that's left is to verify that it's an actual norm.



                      The norm axioms are:



                      $$ nu,(alpha v) = |alpha| ,nu,(v) tag{8} $$
                      $$ nu,(u+v) le nu,(u) + nu,(v) tag{9} $$
                      $$ nu,(v) = 0 implies v = vec{0} tag{10} $$



                      (8) falls out of the fact that matrix multiplication is linear. (10) falls out of the invertibility of $left[begin{smallmatrix}1& 1\0& 1end{smallmatrix}right]$



                      I think the most straightforward way to prove (9) is to note that the matrix $left[begin{smallmatrix}1& 1\0& 1end{smallmatrix}right]$ is upper triangular and hence its eigenvalues with multiplicity are the multiset ${1, 1}$ . Since all of its eigenvalues are positive, the matrix is positive definite and therefore the quadratic form $nu,(u) = u^T left[begin{smallmatrix}1 & 1 \0 & 1end{smallmatrix}right] u$ is a norm.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$


















                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        Here's a way to come up with an answer using as little geometric intuition as possible.



                        The standard norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ can be written as:



                        $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2} mapsto begin{pmatrix}a \ bend{pmatrix}^T begin{bmatrix} 1 & 0 \ 0 & 1end{bmatrix} begin{pmatrix} a\ b end{pmatrix} tag{1} $$



                        or



                        $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2} mapsto a^2 + b^2 tag{2} $$



                        Which makes it immediately clear that, for arbitrarily chosen $(a_1, b_1)$ and $(a_2, b_2)$ .



                        $$ frac{a_1^2 le a_2^2 ;;;;text{and};;;; b_1^2 le b_2^2}{a_1^2 + b_1^2 le a_2^2 + b_2^2} tag{3} $$



                        If we stare at (1) and (2), it suggests that by adding a cross term we can "penalize" negative components, so let's pick a simple one, let's call the new norm $nu$.



                        $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} mapsto begin{pmatrix}a \ bend{pmatrix}^T begin{bmatrix} 1 & 1 \ 0 & 1end{bmatrix} begin{pmatrix} a\ b end{pmatrix} tag{4} $$



                        $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} mapsto a^2 + ab + b^2 tag{5} $$



                        Let's pick $(a_1, b_1) = (2, 2)$ and $(a_2, b_2) = (-3, 3)$ .



                        $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} 2 \ 2 end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} = 4 + 4 + 4 = 12 tag{6} $$



                        $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} -3 \ 3 end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} = 9 - 9 + 9 = 9 tag{7} $$



                        So, $(2, 2)$ and $(-3, 3)$ indeed demonstrates that $nu$ is not absolutely monotonic.



                        All that's left is to verify that it's an actual norm.



                        The norm axioms are:



                        $$ nu,(alpha v) = |alpha| ,nu,(v) tag{8} $$
                        $$ nu,(u+v) le nu,(u) + nu,(v) tag{9} $$
                        $$ nu,(v) = 0 implies v = vec{0} tag{10} $$



                        (8) falls out of the fact that matrix multiplication is linear. (10) falls out of the invertibility of $left[begin{smallmatrix}1& 1\0& 1end{smallmatrix}right]$



                        I think the most straightforward way to prove (9) is to note that the matrix $left[begin{smallmatrix}1& 1\0& 1end{smallmatrix}right]$ is upper triangular and hence its eigenvalues with multiplicity are the multiset ${1, 1}$ . Since all of its eigenvalues are positive, the matrix is positive definite and therefore the quadratic form $nu,(u) = u^T left[begin{smallmatrix}1 & 1 \0 & 1end{smallmatrix}right] u$ is a norm.






                        share|cite|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$
















                          0












                          0








                          0





                          $begingroup$

                          Here's a way to come up with an answer using as little geometric intuition as possible.



                          The standard norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ can be written as:



                          $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2} mapsto begin{pmatrix}a \ bend{pmatrix}^T begin{bmatrix} 1 & 0 \ 0 & 1end{bmatrix} begin{pmatrix} a\ b end{pmatrix} tag{1} $$



                          or



                          $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2} mapsto a^2 + b^2 tag{2} $$



                          Which makes it immediately clear that, for arbitrarily chosen $(a_1, b_1)$ and $(a_2, b_2)$ .



                          $$ frac{a_1^2 le a_2^2 ;;;;text{and};;;; b_1^2 le b_2^2}{a_1^2 + b_1^2 le a_2^2 + b_2^2} tag{3} $$



                          If we stare at (1) and (2), it suggests that by adding a cross term we can "penalize" negative components, so let's pick a simple one, let's call the new norm $nu$.



                          $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} mapsto begin{pmatrix}a \ bend{pmatrix}^T begin{bmatrix} 1 & 1 \ 0 & 1end{bmatrix} begin{pmatrix} a\ b end{pmatrix} tag{4} $$



                          $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} mapsto a^2 + ab + b^2 tag{5} $$



                          Let's pick $(a_1, b_1) = (2, 2)$ and $(a_2, b_2) = (-3, 3)$ .



                          $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} 2 \ 2 end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} = 4 + 4 + 4 = 12 tag{6} $$



                          $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} -3 \ 3 end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} = 9 - 9 + 9 = 9 tag{7} $$



                          So, $(2, 2)$ and $(-3, 3)$ indeed demonstrates that $nu$ is not absolutely monotonic.



                          All that's left is to verify that it's an actual norm.



                          The norm axioms are:



                          $$ nu,(alpha v) = |alpha| ,nu,(v) tag{8} $$
                          $$ nu,(u+v) le nu,(u) + nu,(v) tag{9} $$
                          $$ nu,(v) = 0 implies v = vec{0} tag{10} $$



                          (8) falls out of the fact that matrix multiplication is linear. (10) falls out of the invertibility of $left[begin{smallmatrix}1& 1\0& 1end{smallmatrix}right]$



                          I think the most straightforward way to prove (9) is to note that the matrix $left[begin{smallmatrix}1& 1\0& 1end{smallmatrix}right]$ is upper triangular and hence its eigenvalues with multiplicity are the multiset ${1, 1}$ . Since all of its eigenvalues are positive, the matrix is positive definite and therefore the quadratic form $nu,(u) = u^T left[begin{smallmatrix}1 & 1 \0 & 1end{smallmatrix}right] u$ is a norm.






                          share|cite|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$



                          Here's a way to come up with an answer using as little geometric intuition as possible.



                          The standard norm on $mathbb{R}^2$ can be written as:



                          $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2} mapsto begin{pmatrix}a \ bend{pmatrix}^T begin{bmatrix} 1 & 0 \ 0 & 1end{bmatrix} begin{pmatrix} a\ b end{pmatrix} tag{1} $$



                          or



                          $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2} mapsto a^2 + b^2 tag{2} $$



                          Which makes it immediately clear that, for arbitrarily chosen $(a_1, b_1)$ and $(a_2, b_2)$ .



                          $$ frac{a_1^2 le a_2^2 ;;;;text{and};;;; b_1^2 le b_2^2}{a_1^2 + b_1^2 le a_2^2 + b_2^2} tag{3} $$



                          If we stare at (1) and (2), it suggests that by adding a cross term we can "penalize" negative components, so let's pick a simple one, let's call the new norm $nu$.



                          $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} mapsto begin{pmatrix}a \ bend{pmatrix}^T begin{bmatrix} 1 & 1 \ 0 & 1end{bmatrix} begin{pmatrix} a\ b end{pmatrix} tag{4} $$



                          $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} a \ b end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} mapsto a^2 + ab + b^2 tag{5} $$



                          Let's pick $(a_1, b_1) = (2, 2)$ and $(a_2, b_2) = (-3, 3)$ .



                          $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} 2 \ 2 end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} = 4 + 4 + 4 = 12 tag{6} $$



                          $$ leftVert begin{pmatrix} -3 \ 3 end{pmatrix} rightVert^{;2}_{,nu} = 9 - 9 + 9 = 9 tag{7} $$



                          So, $(2, 2)$ and $(-3, 3)$ indeed demonstrates that $nu$ is not absolutely monotonic.



                          All that's left is to verify that it's an actual norm.



                          The norm axioms are:



                          $$ nu,(alpha v) = |alpha| ,nu,(v) tag{8} $$
                          $$ nu,(u+v) le nu,(u) + nu,(v) tag{9} $$
                          $$ nu,(v) = 0 implies v = vec{0} tag{10} $$



                          (8) falls out of the fact that matrix multiplication is linear. (10) falls out of the invertibility of $left[begin{smallmatrix}1& 1\0& 1end{smallmatrix}right]$



                          I think the most straightforward way to prove (9) is to note that the matrix $left[begin{smallmatrix}1& 1\0& 1end{smallmatrix}right]$ is upper triangular and hence its eigenvalues with multiplicity are the multiset ${1, 1}$ . Since all of its eigenvalues are positive, the matrix is positive definite and therefore the quadratic form $nu,(u) = u^T left[begin{smallmatrix}1 & 1 \0 & 1end{smallmatrix}right] u$ is a norm.







                          share|cite|improve this answer














                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer








                          answered Dec 14 '18 at 22:39


























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                          Gregory Nisbet































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