Question on given compass and ruler construction definition wrt. angle bisection












0












$begingroup$


I am trying to understand chapter 4 in John M. Howie's book called "Fields and Galois Theory" (published by Springer). In chapter 4 regarding geometric constructions he gives the following definition:



Let $B_0$be a set of points in the plane. There are two permitted operations on the points of $B_0$:



(1) (Ruler) through any points of $B_0$, draw a straight line;



(2) (Compass) draw a circle whose center is a point in $B_0$, and whose radius is the distance between two points in $B_0$.



Any point which is an intersection of two lines, or two circles, or a line and a circle, obtained by means of the operations (1) and (2), is said to be constructed from $B_0$ in one step. Denote the set of such points $C(B_0)$, and let $B_1 = B_0 cup C(B_0)$. We can continue this process, definining
$B_n = B_{n-1} cup C(B_{n-1})$ ($n=1,2,3,...)$. A points is said to be constructible from $B_0$ if it belongs to $B_n$ for some $n$. A point that is constructible from $lbrace O,I rbrace$ is said to be constructible.



Phew, that was long. Notice, here the points $O$ and $I$ are the origon and unit, and we may choose any two points of our initial set to be these. Now, I have attempted a bisection of an angle $PQR$, which I have illustrated in the picture below.



enter image description here



I tried to convert this bisection to the definition given above. As I see it I need atleast three points in my initial set $B_0$ for this. For example, I can find a bisecting line with $B_0 = lbrace Q, B, A rbrace$ ($O$ and $I$ would of course be two of these points). If I, however, try with just two, I can not. For example, suppose $B_0 = lbrace Q, A rbrace$. I can construct the red circle which has point $B$ on its exterior. However, to construct $B$ it must be an intersection point of my red circle and some other circle or line, given the definition. But to construct a line passing through $B$, I need atleast one more point.



1) Is the point $C$ in the illustration therefore not constructible, if we follow the definition given by Howie?



Howie later proves that we can not square every circle. I will not state the details on how unless you want me to, but in short, his argument is that you can not construct a square with the radius of a given circle since you can not construct such a square from $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace$.



2) Why is this a sufficient argument? Certainly, you could square a circle given a larger $B_0$ (for the trivial case, $B_0$ could include $pi$).



I hope this was not too long to devour. Thank you very much for your patience!










share|cite|improve this question











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    0












    $begingroup$


    I am trying to understand chapter 4 in John M. Howie's book called "Fields and Galois Theory" (published by Springer). In chapter 4 regarding geometric constructions he gives the following definition:



    Let $B_0$be a set of points in the plane. There are two permitted operations on the points of $B_0$:



    (1) (Ruler) through any points of $B_0$, draw a straight line;



    (2) (Compass) draw a circle whose center is a point in $B_0$, and whose radius is the distance between two points in $B_0$.



    Any point which is an intersection of two lines, or two circles, or a line and a circle, obtained by means of the operations (1) and (2), is said to be constructed from $B_0$ in one step. Denote the set of such points $C(B_0)$, and let $B_1 = B_0 cup C(B_0)$. We can continue this process, definining
    $B_n = B_{n-1} cup C(B_{n-1})$ ($n=1,2,3,...)$. A points is said to be constructible from $B_0$ if it belongs to $B_n$ for some $n$. A point that is constructible from $lbrace O,I rbrace$ is said to be constructible.



    Phew, that was long. Notice, here the points $O$ and $I$ are the origon and unit, and we may choose any two points of our initial set to be these. Now, I have attempted a bisection of an angle $PQR$, which I have illustrated in the picture below.



    enter image description here



    I tried to convert this bisection to the definition given above. As I see it I need atleast three points in my initial set $B_0$ for this. For example, I can find a bisecting line with $B_0 = lbrace Q, B, A rbrace$ ($O$ and $I$ would of course be two of these points). If I, however, try with just two, I can not. For example, suppose $B_0 = lbrace Q, A rbrace$. I can construct the red circle which has point $B$ on its exterior. However, to construct $B$ it must be an intersection point of my red circle and some other circle or line, given the definition. But to construct a line passing through $B$, I need atleast one more point.



    1) Is the point $C$ in the illustration therefore not constructible, if we follow the definition given by Howie?



    Howie later proves that we can not square every circle. I will not state the details on how unless you want me to, but in short, his argument is that you can not construct a square with the radius of a given circle since you can not construct such a square from $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace$.



    2) Why is this a sufficient argument? Certainly, you could square a circle given a larger $B_0$ (for the trivial case, $B_0$ could include $pi$).



    I hope this was not too long to devour. Thank you very much for your patience!










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      0












      0








      0





      $begingroup$


      I am trying to understand chapter 4 in John M. Howie's book called "Fields and Galois Theory" (published by Springer). In chapter 4 regarding geometric constructions he gives the following definition:



      Let $B_0$be a set of points in the plane. There are two permitted operations on the points of $B_0$:



      (1) (Ruler) through any points of $B_0$, draw a straight line;



      (2) (Compass) draw a circle whose center is a point in $B_0$, and whose radius is the distance between two points in $B_0$.



      Any point which is an intersection of two lines, or two circles, or a line and a circle, obtained by means of the operations (1) and (2), is said to be constructed from $B_0$ in one step. Denote the set of such points $C(B_0)$, and let $B_1 = B_0 cup C(B_0)$. We can continue this process, definining
      $B_n = B_{n-1} cup C(B_{n-1})$ ($n=1,2,3,...)$. A points is said to be constructible from $B_0$ if it belongs to $B_n$ for some $n$. A point that is constructible from $lbrace O,I rbrace$ is said to be constructible.



      Phew, that was long. Notice, here the points $O$ and $I$ are the origon and unit, and we may choose any two points of our initial set to be these. Now, I have attempted a bisection of an angle $PQR$, which I have illustrated in the picture below.



      enter image description here



      I tried to convert this bisection to the definition given above. As I see it I need atleast three points in my initial set $B_0$ for this. For example, I can find a bisecting line with $B_0 = lbrace Q, B, A rbrace$ ($O$ and $I$ would of course be two of these points). If I, however, try with just two, I can not. For example, suppose $B_0 = lbrace Q, A rbrace$. I can construct the red circle which has point $B$ on its exterior. However, to construct $B$ it must be an intersection point of my red circle and some other circle or line, given the definition. But to construct a line passing through $B$, I need atleast one more point.



      1) Is the point $C$ in the illustration therefore not constructible, if we follow the definition given by Howie?



      Howie later proves that we can not square every circle. I will not state the details on how unless you want me to, but in short, his argument is that you can not construct a square with the radius of a given circle since you can not construct such a square from $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace$.



      2) Why is this a sufficient argument? Certainly, you could square a circle given a larger $B_0$ (for the trivial case, $B_0$ could include $pi$).



      I hope this was not too long to devour. Thank you very much for your patience!










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I am trying to understand chapter 4 in John M. Howie's book called "Fields and Galois Theory" (published by Springer). In chapter 4 regarding geometric constructions he gives the following definition:



      Let $B_0$be a set of points in the plane. There are two permitted operations on the points of $B_0$:



      (1) (Ruler) through any points of $B_0$, draw a straight line;



      (2) (Compass) draw a circle whose center is a point in $B_0$, and whose radius is the distance between two points in $B_0$.



      Any point which is an intersection of two lines, or two circles, or a line and a circle, obtained by means of the operations (1) and (2), is said to be constructed from $B_0$ in one step. Denote the set of such points $C(B_0)$, and let $B_1 = B_0 cup C(B_0)$. We can continue this process, definining
      $B_n = B_{n-1} cup C(B_{n-1})$ ($n=1,2,3,...)$. A points is said to be constructible from $B_0$ if it belongs to $B_n$ for some $n$. A point that is constructible from $lbrace O,I rbrace$ is said to be constructible.



      Phew, that was long. Notice, here the points $O$ and $I$ are the origon and unit, and we may choose any two points of our initial set to be these. Now, I have attempted a bisection of an angle $PQR$, which I have illustrated in the picture below.



      enter image description here



      I tried to convert this bisection to the definition given above. As I see it I need atleast three points in my initial set $B_0$ for this. For example, I can find a bisecting line with $B_0 = lbrace Q, B, A rbrace$ ($O$ and $I$ would of course be two of these points). If I, however, try with just two, I can not. For example, suppose $B_0 = lbrace Q, A rbrace$. I can construct the red circle which has point $B$ on its exterior. However, to construct $B$ it must be an intersection point of my red circle and some other circle or line, given the definition. But to construct a line passing through $B$, I need atleast one more point.



      1) Is the point $C$ in the illustration therefore not constructible, if we follow the definition given by Howie?



      Howie later proves that we can not square every circle. I will not state the details on how unless you want me to, but in short, his argument is that you can not construct a square with the radius of a given circle since you can not construct such a square from $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace$.



      2) Why is this a sufficient argument? Certainly, you could square a circle given a larger $B_0$ (for the trivial case, $B_0$ could include $pi$).



      I hope this was not too long to devour. Thank you very much for your patience!







      galois-theory extension-field geometric-construction






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      share|cite|improve this question













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      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Dec 16 '18 at 21:56







      kasp9201

















      asked Dec 16 '18 at 21:51









      kasp9201kasp9201

      526




      526






















          1 Answer
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          active

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          1












          $begingroup$

          Point C is obtained as the intersection of two circles, the first has center A and passes through Q, the second has center B and passes through Q. Thus the line QC is constructible.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            I'm not sure that I understand this, sorry. According to the definition I have provided, for a point to be constructible it must be constructible from the initial set $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace $. I do not see how we can construct the line QC from $B_0$. To me, atleast, it seems that we require one more point in our initial set $B_0$ to do so. Am I misunderstanding something?
            $endgroup$
            – kasp9201
            Dec 18 '18 at 2:23








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            $B_0={Q,B,A}$ for this construction.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 18 '18 at 13:32










          • $begingroup$
            Thank you very much. That lets me deduce an answer to my first question. Perhaps you can also tell me why Howie would say a point is constructible if it is constructible from $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace$? ($O$ is the origon, $I$ is the unit) He gives this criteria in form of a definition and therefore never states $textit{why}$ he does so.
            $endgroup$
            – kasp9201
            Dec 18 '18 at 15:47








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            The constructible points are defined so that they only depend on the simplest set $B_0$. This is used later(?) to get a criterion in terms of field theory for a point to be constructible.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 19 '18 at 15:06






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Any two points would work, $B_0$ is a convenient choice.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 19 '18 at 18:29











          Your Answer





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          $begingroup$

          Point C is obtained as the intersection of two circles, the first has center A and passes through Q, the second has center B and passes through Q. Thus the line QC is constructible.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            I'm not sure that I understand this, sorry. According to the definition I have provided, for a point to be constructible it must be constructible from the initial set $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace $. I do not see how we can construct the line QC from $B_0$. To me, atleast, it seems that we require one more point in our initial set $B_0$ to do so. Am I misunderstanding something?
            $endgroup$
            – kasp9201
            Dec 18 '18 at 2:23








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            $B_0={Q,B,A}$ for this construction.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 18 '18 at 13:32










          • $begingroup$
            Thank you very much. That lets me deduce an answer to my first question. Perhaps you can also tell me why Howie would say a point is constructible if it is constructible from $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace$? ($O$ is the origon, $I$ is the unit) He gives this criteria in form of a definition and therefore never states $textit{why}$ he does so.
            $endgroup$
            – kasp9201
            Dec 18 '18 at 15:47








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            The constructible points are defined so that they only depend on the simplest set $B_0$. This is used later(?) to get a criterion in terms of field theory for a point to be constructible.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 19 '18 at 15:06






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Any two points would work, $B_0$ is a convenient choice.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 19 '18 at 18:29
















          1












          $begingroup$

          Point C is obtained as the intersection of two circles, the first has center A and passes through Q, the second has center B and passes through Q. Thus the line QC is constructible.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            I'm not sure that I understand this, sorry. According to the definition I have provided, for a point to be constructible it must be constructible from the initial set $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace $. I do not see how we can construct the line QC from $B_0$. To me, atleast, it seems that we require one more point in our initial set $B_0$ to do so. Am I misunderstanding something?
            $endgroup$
            – kasp9201
            Dec 18 '18 at 2:23








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            $B_0={Q,B,A}$ for this construction.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 18 '18 at 13:32










          • $begingroup$
            Thank you very much. That lets me deduce an answer to my first question. Perhaps you can also tell me why Howie would say a point is constructible if it is constructible from $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace$? ($O$ is the origon, $I$ is the unit) He gives this criteria in form of a definition and therefore never states $textit{why}$ he does so.
            $endgroup$
            – kasp9201
            Dec 18 '18 at 15:47








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            The constructible points are defined so that they only depend on the simplest set $B_0$. This is used later(?) to get a criterion in terms of field theory for a point to be constructible.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 19 '18 at 15:06






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Any two points would work, $B_0$ is a convenient choice.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 19 '18 at 18:29














          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          Point C is obtained as the intersection of two circles, the first has center A and passes through Q, the second has center B and passes through Q. Thus the line QC is constructible.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Point C is obtained as the intersection of two circles, the first has center A and passes through Q, the second has center B and passes through Q. Thus the line QC is constructible.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Dec 17 '18 at 14:47









          i. m. soloveichiki. m. soloveichik

          3,72811125




          3,72811125












          • $begingroup$
            I'm not sure that I understand this, sorry. According to the definition I have provided, for a point to be constructible it must be constructible from the initial set $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace $. I do not see how we can construct the line QC from $B_0$. To me, atleast, it seems that we require one more point in our initial set $B_0$ to do so. Am I misunderstanding something?
            $endgroup$
            – kasp9201
            Dec 18 '18 at 2:23








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            $B_0={Q,B,A}$ for this construction.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 18 '18 at 13:32










          • $begingroup$
            Thank you very much. That lets me deduce an answer to my first question. Perhaps you can also tell me why Howie would say a point is constructible if it is constructible from $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace$? ($O$ is the origon, $I$ is the unit) He gives this criteria in form of a definition and therefore never states $textit{why}$ he does so.
            $endgroup$
            – kasp9201
            Dec 18 '18 at 15:47








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            The constructible points are defined so that they only depend on the simplest set $B_0$. This is used later(?) to get a criterion in terms of field theory for a point to be constructible.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 19 '18 at 15:06






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Any two points would work, $B_0$ is a convenient choice.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 19 '18 at 18:29


















          • $begingroup$
            I'm not sure that I understand this, sorry. According to the definition I have provided, for a point to be constructible it must be constructible from the initial set $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace $. I do not see how we can construct the line QC from $B_0$. To me, atleast, it seems that we require one more point in our initial set $B_0$ to do so. Am I misunderstanding something?
            $endgroup$
            – kasp9201
            Dec 18 '18 at 2:23








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            $B_0={Q,B,A}$ for this construction.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 18 '18 at 13:32










          • $begingroup$
            Thank you very much. That lets me deduce an answer to my first question. Perhaps you can also tell me why Howie would say a point is constructible if it is constructible from $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace$? ($O$ is the origon, $I$ is the unit) He gives this criteria in form of a definition and therefore never states $textit{why}$ he does so.
            $endgroup$
            – kasp9201
            Dec 18 '18 at 15:47








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            The constructible points are defined so that they only depend on the simplest set $B_0$. This is used later(?) to get a criterion in terms of field theory for a point to be constructible.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 19 '18 at 15:06






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Any two points would work, $B_0$ is a convenient choice.
            $endgroup$
            – i. m. soloveichik
            Dec 19 '18 at 18:29
















          $begingroup$
          I'm not sure that I understand this, sorry. According to the definition I have provided, for a point to be constructible it must be constructible from the initial set $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace $. I do not see how we can construct the line QC from $B_0$. To me, atleast, it seems that we require one more point in our initial set $B_0$ to do so. Am I misunderstanding something?
          $endgroup$
          – kasp9201
          Dec 18 '18 at 2:23






          $begingroup$
          I'm not sure that I understand this, sorry. According to the definition I have provided, for a point to be constructible it must be constructible from the initial set $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace $. I do not see how we can construct the line QC from $B_0$. To me, atleast, it seems that we require one more point in our initial set $B_0$ to do so. Am I misunderstanding something?
          $endgroup$
          – kasp9201
          Dec 18 '18 at 2:23






          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          $B_0={Q,B,A}$ for this construction.
          $endgroup$
          – i. m. soloveichik
          Dec 18 '18 at 13:32




          $begingroup$
          $B_0={Q,B,A}$ for this construction.
          $endgroup$
          – i. m. soloveichik
          Dec 18 '18 at 13:32












          $begingroup$
          Thank you very much. That lets me deduce an answer to my first question. Perhaps you can also tell me why Howie would say a point is constructible if it is constructible from $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace$? ($O$ is the origon, $I$ is the unit) He gives this criteria in form of a definition and therefore never states $textit{why}$ he does so.
          $endgroup$
          – kasp9201
          Dec 18 '18 at 15:47






          $begingroup$
          Thank you very much. That lets me deduce an answer to my first question. Perhaps you can also tell me why Howie would say a point is constructible if it is constructible from $B_0 = lbrace O, I rbrace$? ($O$ is the origon, $I$ is the unit) He gives this criteria in form of a definition and therefore never states $textit{why}$ he does so.
          $endgroup$
          – kasp9201
          Dec 18 '18 at 15:47






          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          The constructible points are defined so that they only depend on the simplest set $B_0$. This is used later(?) to get a criterion in terms of field theory for a point to be constructible.
          $endgroup$
          – i. m. soloveichik
          Dec 19 '18 at 15:06




          $begingroup$
          The constructible points are defined so that they only depend on the simplest set $B_0$. This is used later(?) to get a criterion in terms of field theory for a point to be constructible.
          $endgroup$
          – i. m. soloveichik
          Dec 19 '18 at 15:06




          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          Any two points would work, $B_0$ is a convenient choice.
          $endgroup$
          – i. m. soloveichik
          Dec 19 '18 at 18:29




          $begingroup$
          Any two points would work, $B_0$ is a convenient choice.
          $endgroup$
          – i. m. soloveichik
          Dec 19 '18 at 18:29


















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